You’re not a victim. And the driver in that article you linked was a member of the same gay chorus as the guy he killed I believe.
Can a community of people suffer from group Borderline Personality Disorder?
- Thread starter CO. Hoosier
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I would rather be an old angry lesbian than an angry hetro white man.
you are breath of fresh air to this board. post more.
I'd actually tell you to go back to Indiana, or any small evangelical town. Hell anti-gay is in the Bible and is against the will of God, or something like that.
Don't ask don't tell was repealed what, ten years ago?
I think you're a tad premature on it being a nothing burger.
Besides it's a strange argument. Everyone is aware of breast cancer and homeless puppies but there are still community celebrations and gatherings.
There's gotta be something more here
I wouldn't say that I have a victim complex personally. At this point in my life I am in a position and live in a location where I personally don't worry so much about discrimination. But in terms of my community in general, both in this country and internationally, there still is much to be concerned about.
And yes, the truck driver ended up being gay and it was unintentional. But the point that we are still at a place in society where it is automatically assumed that it was intentional.
My daughter, who isn’t gay, went to a pride event in Washington Indiana yesterday.
Yeah... I mean, why not target the breast cancer community. We get a whole month to ourselves and ribbons and publicity.
It must be the parades. We don't have the parades. The gays get the parades and all the fun. It must be all those hot guys on the floats dancing and having fun that really has them all worked up.
I assumed it was a nothingburger too and believe it is largely in cities. I have a bunch of gay friends (all lawyers and judges) who never talk about it anymore, hide it, feel oppressed etc bc it’s no longer an issue in their lives. the only time they mention it is one has a thriving biz representing married men getting caught at the park getting bjs. He started advertising in the pride pages and it’s a tiny part of his practice but pulls in more than six figs a year. For married men not wanting to be outed I get the concealment but all the gays I know, and I know a lot, are open and proud and long past oppression/stigmatization. Hell our backward old city has an entire bar district with gay owned bars that everyone frequents. In Hollywood at the moment it seems like a bonus. Half My kid’s shows feature gay characters. I too think it’s dragging out victim behavior - and I’m in flyover country
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Again. You automatically assumed, it’s a you problem, don’t project onto society at large.
I'll spare you the "best friend" response. But lived experience doesn't improve the quality of your posts, so you can lose that anytime. We all come by knowledge in a number of ways, all of them are important.
Agree. But begging the question. Why would a corporation (or the US Navy) think there is advantages to the Pride thing?
Agree about the crap in the sense it is overdone. My stoker had BC, refused to participate in the Pink Ribbon crap, got fed up with the support group after one session, and refuses to call herself a survivor because it implies victimhood and she doesn't go there.
I don't believe that for one second. I think you are way out in left field and maybe paranoid.
I agree pride is important, even though it can be overdone and be included in the seven deadly sins. My question, though, is why is this pride special while pride in our founding principles is falling on hard times? Part of the reason I think you are dead wrong about progress being rolled back is precisely because of those founding principles. In many places in the world, you would be in jail or dead because of who you are.
Myself, who is gay, went to a pride event in Vintucky, I mean, Vincennes two years ago. I still had the thought in the back of my head that something bad might happen. Maybe eventually that fear will go away, but it hasn't yet.
From my limited POV I believe there has been tremendous progress, I'm not not ready to say stop talking about it and stop highlighting it because it's now a nothing burger.
Actually homophobia is what I believe is the bigotry battle of my generation (gen x).
I have tapes of me from 25 years ago playing hoops and throwing around so much homophobic insults that I could never run for office and my grandchildren would be offended and say grandpa was a homophobe like how my grandpa was racist as f.
My defense would be 'I didn't really mean it in a hurtful way, that's just how we talked back in those days'.
More importantly it's for generations growing up now that will stop talking 'how we did back in those days'.
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I don't believe that someone who is not LGBTQ+ has any idea of what my life experience has been.
I'm not really sure. But I don't think it has anything to do with Borderline Personality Disorder. I do think there is a lot of "wokeness" that plays into this. But that's gonna open up a whole other can of worms....
I get that. I do identify as a survivor, 20 years now, but I don't buy into the pink ribbon stuff at all. Both of my parents had different cancers three times each and did not survive the third go round, so I joke around that I've got a couple more times to go. There are a two non-mainstream organizations I do support, but seeing the pink ribbons on everything, especially products that have chemicals in them that could lead to cancer just wears me out.
Nope. Sorry. I've been harassed and had friends that have been physically attacked over the years. The threat is real.
I don't know the answer. I do know that I am still proud to be an American for the most part, although there are some moments when I just shake my head. I am also a firm believer in the constitution, including the 2nd ammendment although I do think the firepower has gotten over the top and gun violence is out of control. Not really sure how to fix it at this point.
Exactly. Which is why the fight goes on.
I guess my biggest problem with the original post is the connection between mental illness (BPD) and being gay.
Homosexuality was classified as a mental illness until 1973. There's a lot of painful history in that subject area.
Yeah, it triggered me and I let my emotions get in the way of some of my comments. I mean, hell, I should be impressed that some of you guys think it's not a big deal to be gay anymore. That is progress in some way.
But you don't know how it feels... to be me. Peace out breeders!!! Mwah!
Homosexuality was classified as a mental illness until 1973. There's a lot of painful history in that subject area.
Hidden from history? A brief modern history of the psychiatric “treatment” of lesbian and bisexual women in England
It is well documented that homosexuality was classified as a mental illness in the DSM until 1973, when it was replaced with the diagnosis of “sexual orientation disturbance”. While it is widely known that homosexual men were criminalised and risked a spell in prison or aversion therapy in a...
www.thelancet.com
Yeah, it triggered me and I let my emotions get in the way of some of my comments. I mean, hell, I should be impressed that some of you guys think it's not a big deal to be gay anymore. That is progress in some way.
But you don't know how it feels... to be me. Peace out breeders!!! Mwah!
Makes sense. Hope you stick around.I guess my biggest problem with the original post is the connection between mental illness (BPD) and being gay.
Homosexuality was classified as a mental illness until 1973. There's a lot of painful history in that subject area.
Hidden from history? A brief modern history of the psychiatric “treatment” of lesbian and bisexual women in England
It is well documented that homosexuality was classified as a mental illness in the DSM until 1973, when it was replaced with the diagnosis of “sexual orientation disturbance”. While it is widely known that homosexual men were criminalised and risked a spell in prison or aversion therapy in a...www.thelancet.com
Yeah, it triggered me and I let my emotions get in the way of some of my comments. I mean, hell, I should be impressed that some of you guys think it's not a big deal to be gay anymore. That is progress in some way.
But you don't know how it feels... to be me. Peace out breeders!!! Mwah!
I don't know what your life experience is regardless of your sexual status. In any event, my OP was about why Gay Pride has become such a ubiquitous event, kinda like the pink ribbon stuff that we agree is crap--maybe for different reasons. People look for things to take pride in. When they don't have a strong sense of self. as a source of pride, maybe they take comfort in group identities. That is where BPD comes in.
An example of what we are talking about. Remember the movie The Imitation Game about Alan Turing and his work on digital computing and breaking Nazi codes? On this board I criticized the movie because it focsed too much on his sexual orientation. Alan Touring should be remembered for what he accomplished. That was truly astounding in a number of ways. I read about him and the Touring Test and never knew he was gay. So I looked forward to seeing the movie. I thought the movie made his accomplishments a side show to his sexual orientation. IIRC, the move never mentioned what led up to his fashioning the Touring Test. If it did, it was not an important aspect of the story. I mentioned that on this board and as one would expect I was excoriated for that. I think there are more important things that who you have sex with and Touring was definitely an example.
So why do you believe progress can be rolled back?
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So you meant pride in general as opposed to gay pride specifically, even though you used gay pride as an example? And a community of people in general while using the gay community as an example?
H
So, you're not up with Gray Pride?
We're old; We're tired; Get off our lawn . . .
So, you're not up with Gray Pride?
We're old; We're tired; Get off our lawn . . .
Gay Pride observances are now very much larger than the gay community.
So, why has Pride Day become such a thing, for example, and some communities are de-emphasizing pride shown by celebrating Independence Day?
I have a pretty strong sense of self but also feel like a part of many different communities, the LGBTQ+ (aka the sexuality alphabet soup, see I can have a sense of humor about it), the rugby community, the drum corps community, the jazz community, the feminist community, the liberal (but I'm really moderate but since everyone thinks I'm a liberal I finally gave up) community, and so much more.
I also think BPD is a fairly serious illness so ultimately bringing it into the discussion of identity diminishes the seriousness of it, but I 'm not going to debate that. I get that you are spinning off of a previous post and article that already made those connections. It would be interesting to hear the point of veiw of someone with BPD.
I took a Duke Ellington class with David Baker when I was a music student BITD and one of the books we were reading made some statements sexualizing the relationship between Billy Strayhorn and Duke Ellington. David knew I was gay and had no problems with it, and he kept bringing up some of those statements one day in class. I didn't say anything, not sure why, but it bothered me that if Strayhorn wasn't gay or at least wasn't known to be gay, that that those statements wouldn't be made. One of those times I wish I would have spoken up and mentioned my discomfort about it. Strayhorn was a brilliant composer and lyricist, his sexuality had nothing to do with it.
I think that discussion would take us into potentially contentious political territory. While I hope that the SCOTUS would honor precedent in this area and others, my fear is that it won't.
Not for nothing, but I currently live in a California town that has one of the biggest freaking July 4th parades I've ever seen. Pre-pandemic of course, it's been canceled the past two years. I think we have some drag queens that march in it. I'm retired from 4th of July parades. I think the most I ever did was 5 gigs in one day, but that was back in the 90s.
I've definately marched in more 4th of July parades than Pride parades in my life.
And again, I think it's a wokeness thing. It's become very trendy. On one hand I don't want to complain about it because it does mean more support and acceptance, but on the other hand, it feels kinda pink ribbon-ey. Pride has evolved so much since Stonewall days. It's evolved so much that in NYC they have groups that have broken away from the OG Heritage of Pride group because they feel it's been co-opted by corporate America and straight people. I find other ways to be involved in the struggle.
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I agree, you do seem pretty full of yourself. Try a little laxative, flush that shit out.
And many of them can not stand that fact! "I .... NEED... MORE.... ATTENTION!!!!"
“I know you are but what am I” is pathetic. You’re going to have to bring it stronger if you want to stick around this board.
Gay organizations around the country viewed this (Nassib) as a very big deal. I don't know what you're reading, but you probably need to broaden your horizons.
And when you say, "I think most us just yawned," who is "us?" Old men? Yeah, I think you're right.
To normalize homosexuality I think it is best to not fixate on every time a public person announces they’re homosexual. It’s ****ing childish.
Not if you have a desperate need for a cause to be outraged about so you can enhance your feeling of self worth…
Imagine so much of your identity being wrapped up in whether you like dick or vag.
This question arises from DANC's link below about Twitter trolls and mental illness. That link describes the mental pathology of Borderline Personality Disorder as this:
“identity disturbance with markedly or persistently unstable self-image or sense of self,”The author further states:
This is a marvellous, sympathetic piece on BPD; the metaphor it uses is that people with BPD are cognitively “lighter” than neurotypical people. That is: if you are heavy, it takes a lot to move you. So when something quite nice happens to a neurotypical person, it makes them slightly happier: the wind only moves them a little bit. When something quite unpleasant happens, it makes them slightly sadder.But if you are cognitively light, then the same events will move you much further. A small victory will make you thrill with joy; a small problem can make you suicidal (and BPD patients have a tragically high suicide risk in their younger years). It also applies to people’s opinions of others: “Either a relationship is perfect and that person is wonderful, or the relationship is doomed and that person is terrible,” as the NHS page on BPD puts it. This is called “splitting”, and again, it’s easy to think of it as someone being light, rather than heavy: being blown on the wind of events.People with these conditions feel emotions much more strongly. But they also have difficulty forming a strong self-image, and often take on very visible identities, such as being a Goth or a fan of a particular band, dyeing their hair or getting tattoos, in order to give themselves something solid to cling to.It's becoming obvious to me that large portions of the population of the US have lost a sense of community or social self and are searching for one. Nothing makes this more obvious than the Pride celebrations. I don't have strong opinions one way or another about Pride Week, Month, Parades, or Flags. To me its more of a meh. I think pride is important for people to have to give them a self image. But Pride seems to be a group thing these days. I think it is strange that as gay rights is pretty much establishment orthodoxy these days, that Pride events are taking on increasing importance. Why? Even the US Navy participates.
These days when pride in the United Stats is falling as the Stars and Stripes in some quarters is seen as divisive, as are celebrations like Memorial Day and Independence Day, the opposite is happening with Pride events. Why do we hold "Merry Christmas" as a divisive greeting yet we see a Rainbow Flag as inclusive? The opposite of pride is self-loathing. We are simultaneously seeing an increase in self loathing of the United States while an increase in pride in skin color and LBGQ celebrations. What is going on here? I think an understanding of Borderline Personality Disorder sheds some light on where we are as a common society.
The other relevant aspect of BPD is the author's metaphor of "light" emotional anchors. Such individuals are easily moved and swayed by minor, or fleeting, events. It seems to me that this is increasing throughout society. One aspect of this is, as the author notes, the idea that people and events are binary, all good or all bad. (There is no . . .ahem . . .nuance). How often have we heard that people or events are "polarizing"? I have never liked that term or that approach to thinking, but I never knew exactly why until reading DANC's link. People who think in polarizing terms are "light". With very rare exceptions, people or things should not be polarizing. There is always a deeper level of thinking to be done. This was brought home by this reporting about the National Archives and Thomas Jefferson. The United States was the first nation that codified such important ideas as government by consent of the governed, natural rights, and due process of law. Thomas Jefferson was a huge and vital part of that. Yet to describe these accomplishments as undeserved valor is hugely ignorant. To condemn TJ with setting in motion the displacement of Indigenous peoples is even more ignorance, in my view a product of BPD. TJ's role isn't any more important than the Spanish settlements and colonization of the entire Southwestern U.S., the California Gold Rush, the Santa Fe trail, and the thousands of settlers in search of better lives, just like todays migrants.
I know some really conservative gay folks who would probably agree with much of this. It’s almost like we’re dealing with more than one community! That said, you guys are pretty lame culture warriors.
Perhaps the breeders moniker is one of gratitude considering if everyone was a homosexual it would lead to the extinction of the species…
So what?
People who don't have an argument always say this sort of thing.
If there is a point here, I'm missing it. Aren't Old Men supposed to be the intollerant ones? I think part of the establishment orthodoxy comes from youth.
Bingo. Normalizing Gay issues is not what many people are looking for. So we have added "T" and who knows other letters to the issue to keep alive the need to be noticed. Does this go back to BPD and the search for meaning in lives?
I have a friend that is afraid of being abducted by aliens. Being afraid of something doesn’t legitimize it….
No, it goes back to Corporate America. Everytime a letter gets added, all these organizations have to redo their letterheads and web sites et al. It's all about the money.
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