Can a community of people suffer from group Borderline Personality Disorder?

CO. Hoosier

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This question arises from DANC's link below about Twitter trolls and mental illness. That link describes the mental pathology of Borderline Personality Disorder as this:

“identity disturbance with markedly or persistently unstable self-image or sense of self,”​
The author further states:

This is a marvellous, sympathetic piece on BPD; the metaphor it uses is that people with BPD are cognitively “lighter” than neurotypical people. That is: if you are heavy, it takes a lot to move you. So when something quite nice happens to a neurotypical person, it makes them slightly happier: the wind only moves them a little bit. When something quite unpleasant happens, it makes them slightly sadder.​
But if you are cognitively light, then the same events will move you much further. A small victory will make you thrill with joy; a small problem can make you suicidal (and BPD patients have a tragically high suicide risk in their younger years). It also applies to people’s opinions of others: “Either a relationship is perfect and that person is wonderful, or the relationship is doomed and that person is terrible,” as the NHS page on BPD puts it. This is called “splitting”, and again, it’s easy to think of it as someone being light, rather than heavy: being blown on the wind of events.​
People with these conditions feel emotions much more strongly. But they also have difficulty forming a strong self-image, and often take on very visible identities, such as being a Goth or a fan of a particular band, dyeing their hair or getting tattoos, in order to give themselves something solid to cling to.​
It's becoming obvious to me that large portions of the population of the US have lost a sense of community or social self and are searching for one. Nothing makes this more obvious than the Pride celebrations. I don't have strong opinions one way or another about Pride Week, Month, Parades, or Flags. To me its more of a meh. I think pride is important for people to have to give them a self image. But Pride seems to be a group thing these days. I think it is strange that as gay rights is pretty much establishment orthodoxy these days, that Pride events are taking on increasing importance. Why? Even the US Navy participates.
uss_gerald_ford_pride_flag_6-24-21.jpg


These days when pride in the United Stats is falling as the Stars and Stripes in some quarters is seen as divisive, as are celebrations like Memorial Day and Independence Day, the opposite is happening with Pride events. Why do we hold "Merry Christmas" as a divisive greeting yet we see a Rainbow Flag as inclusive? The opposite of pride is self-loathing. We are simultaneously seeing an increase in self loathing of the United States while an increase in pride in skin color and LBGQ celebrations. What is going on here? I think an understanding of Borderline Personality Disorder sheds some light on where we are as a common society.

The other relevant aspect of BPD is the author's metaphor of "light" emotional anchors. Such individuals are easily moved and swayed by minor, or fleeting, events. It seems to me that this is increasing throughout society. One aspect of this is, as the author notes, the idea that people and events are binary, all good or all bad. (There is no . . .ahem . . .nuance). How often have we heard that people or events are "polarizing"? I have never liked that term or that approach to thinking, but I never knew exactly why until reading DANC's link. People who think in polarizing terms are "light". With very rare exceptions, people or things should not be polarizing. There is always a deeper level of thinking to be done. This was brought home by this reporting about the National Archives and Thomas Jefferson. The United States was the first nation that codified such important ideas as government by consent of the governed, natural rights, and due process of law. Thomas Jefferson was a huge and vital part of that. Yet to describe these accomplishments as undeserved valor is hugely ignorant. To condemn TJ with setting in motion the displacement of Indigenous peoples is even more ignorance, in my view a product of BPD. TJ's role isn't any more important than the Spanish settlements and colonization of the entire Southwestern U.S., the California Gold Rush, the Santa Fe trail, and the thousands of settlers in search of better lives, just like todays migrants.
 
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Bowlmania

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This question arises from DANC's link below about Twitter trolls and mental illness. That link describes the mental pathology of Borderline Personality Disorder as this:

“identity disturbance with markedly or persistently unstable self-image or sense of self,”​
The author further states:

This is a marvellous, sympathetic piece on BPD; the metaphor it uses is that people with BPD are cognitively “lighter” than neurotypical people. That is: if you are heavy, it takes a lot to move you. So when something quite nice happens to a neurotypical person, it makes them slightly happier: the wind only moves them a little bit. When something quite unpleasant happens, it makes them slightly sadder.​
But if you are cognitively light, then the same events will move you much further. A small victory will make you thrill with joy; a small problem can make you suicidal (and BPD patients have a tragically high suicide risk in their younger years). It also applies to people’s opinions of others: “Either a relationship is perfect and that person is wonderful, or the relationship is doomed and that person is terrible,” as the NHS page on BPD puts it. This is called “splitting”, and again, it’s easy to think of it as someone being light, rather than heavy: being blown on the wind of events.​
People with these conditions feel emotions much more strongly. But they also have difficulty forming a strong self-image, and often take on very visible identities, such as being a Goth or a fan of a particular band, dyeing their hair or getting tattoos, in order to give themselves something solid to cling to.​
It's becoming obvious to me that large portions of the population of the US have lost a sense of community or social self and are searching for one. Nothing makes this more obvious than the Pride celebrations. I don't have strong opinions one way or another about Pride Week, Month, Parades, or Flags. To me its more of a meh. I think pride is important for people to have to give them a self image. But Pride seems to be a group thing these days. I think it is strange that as gay rights is pretty much establishment orthodoxy these days, that Pride events are taking on increasing importance. Why? Even the US Navy participates.
uss_gerald_ford_pride_flag_6-24-21.jpg


These days when pride in the United Stats is falling as the Stars and Stripes in some quarters is seen as divisive, as are celebrations like Memorial Day and Independence Day, the opposite is happening with Pride events. Why do we hold "Merry Christmas" as a divisive greeting yet we see a Rainbow Flag as inclusive? The opposite of pride is self-loathing. We are simultaneously seeing an increase in self loathing of the United States while an increase in pride in skin color and LBGQ celebrations. What is going on here? I think an understanding of Borderline Personality Disorder sheds some light on where we are as a common society.

The other relevant aspect of BPD is the author's metaphor of "light" emotional anchors. Such individuals are easily moved and swayed by minor, or fleeting, events. It seems to me that this is increasing throughout society. One aspect of this is, as the author notes, the idea that people and events are binary, all good or all bad. (There is no . . .ahem . . .nuance). How often have we heard that people or events are "polarizing"? I have never liked that term or that approach to thinking, but I never knew exactly why until reading DANC's link. People who think in polarizing terms are "light". With very rare exceptions, people or things should not be polarizing. There is always a deeper level of thinking to be done. This was brought home by this reporting about the National Archives and Thomas Jefferson. The United States was the first nation that codified such important ideas as government by consent of the governed, natural rights, and due process of law. Thomas Jefferson was a huge and vital part of that. Yet to describe these accomplishments as undeserved valor is hugely ignorant. To condemn TJ with setting in motion the displacement of Indigenous peoples is even more ignorance, in my view a product of BPD. TJ's role isn't any more important than the Spanish settlements and colonization of the entire Southwestern U.S., the California Gold Rush, the Santa Fe trail, and the thousands of settlers in search of better lives, just like todays migrants.
You're all over the place with this post, but I'm going to focus on one piece, the "pride" thing.

I assume you're a straight man. So am I. Do you think we can even begin to understand the challenges that gay people (and gay men in particular) have faced and continue to experience? That's why your comment: "I think it is strange that as gay rights is pretty much establishment orthodoxy these days, that Pride events are taking on increasing importance. Why?" is more than a little tone deaf.

There's a reason Carl Nassib's disclosure last week was headline news. Professional athletes are still reluctant to come out because a large segment of society is still not accepting of this. I think that's particularly true in "tough guy" environments such as professional football. The potential for backlash - - from opponents, fans and even teammates - - is very real.

It wasn't forever ago when Matthew Shepard was beaten, tied to a fence, and left to die in a frozen field in Wyoming. Hate crimes against LGBTQ people are still far too common. Kids are still killing themselves after being shamed by family members and friends for being gay.

I think you're out of touch.
 

Bulk VanderHuge

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You've already established yourself as a moron. You don't need to confirm it.
As long as you think so, I know I'm doing something right.
And if I were to return the favor, I might tell you that you are an insufferable windbag with an extremely overinflated and undeserved sense of self-worth.
But, I'm much too polite for that.
 

CO. Hoosier

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You're all over the place with this post, but I'm going to focus on one piece, the "pride" thing.

I assume you're a straight man. So am I. Do you think we can even begin to understand the challenges that gay people (and gay men in particular) have faced and continue to experience? That's why your comment: "I think it is strange that as gay rights is pretty much establishment orthodoxy these days, that Pride events are taking on increasing importance. Why?" is more than a little tone deaf.

There's a reason Carl Nassib's disclosure last week was headline news. Professional athletes are still reluctant to come out because a large segment of society is still not accepting of this. I think that's particularly true in "tough guy" environments such as professional football. The potential for backlash - - from opponents, fans and even teammates - - is very real.

It wasn't forever ago when Matthew Shepard was beaten, tied to a fence, and left to die in a frozen field in Wyoming. Hate crimes against LGBTQ people are still far too common. Kids are still killing themselves after being shamed by family members and friends for being gay.

I think you're out of touch.
I don't know that gays made a big deal out of Nassib. The straights did that. Make that the straight newsies. This is not tone deafness. I think most of us just yawned. I think my post speaks to that at least in part. There is a tremendous amount of emotion that centers around white self-loathing and wanting to make things "right".

Making Matthew Shepard's brutal murder a cause célèbre for gay hate might be over done if not undeservedj. One of his killers had had sex with him and they were all involved with crystal meth. That in no way excuses that heinous crime, but it is to say they the non-gay white community loves these kinds of events so they can signal their virtue.
 
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TommyCracker

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The 'pride' thing is simple communal positive reinforcement.

Maybe one day a person's sexual orientation will be what I believe it should be, a person's personal liberty, that it becomes a nothingburger but, yeah we aren't close to that.

Does it really not bother you because it kindof sounds like it does?
 

HooDatGuy

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The 'pride' thing is simple communal positive reinforcement.

Maybe one day a person's sexual orientation will be what I believe it should be, a person's personal liberty, that it becomes a nothingburger but, yeah we aren't close to that.

Does it really not bother you because it kindof sounds like it does?
It already is a nothingburger. Stop denying progress.
 

Bulk VanderHuge

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The 'pride' thing is simple communal positive reinforcement.

Maybe one day a person's sexual orientation will be what I believe it should be, a person's personal liberty, that it becomes a nothingburger but, yeah we aren't close to that.

Does it really not bother you because it kindof sounds like it does?
It's just COH virtue signaling other groups on how they should feel.
 
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Bulk VanderHuge

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Conceivably hate crimes have to have some motive, be it racial or sexual. Why is 1/5 not acceptable?

Or are you just mad that there are hate crimes at all? Does the very existence of crime deny progress?

Silliness.
I'm not arguing with your assertion of progress. I'm merely pointing out that your declaration of "nothingburger" status is baseless.
 

IUAlum

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I don't know that gays made a big deal out of Nassib. The straights did that. Make that the straight newsies. This is not tone deafness. I think most of us just yawned. I think my post speaks to that at least in part. There is a tremendous amount of emotion that centers around white self-loathing and wanting to make things "right".

Making Matthew Shepard's brutal murder being a cause célèbre for gay hate might be over done if not underserved. One of his killers had had sex with him and they were all involved with crystal meth. That in no way excuses that heinous crime, but it is to say they the non-gay white community loves these kinds of events so they can signal their virtue.
Wow. The fact that you are willing to victim blame Matthew Shepard says it all.

Next you're probably going to tell us that the Pulse nightclub victims were to blame because they made the choice to gather at a place where they could be targeted.

You wanna know what I, a lesbian female, first thought of when the Pulse mass shooting news broke? I thought about how many times I thought about getting shot by someone while crossing College Ave from the parking lot to go into Bullwinkles in the 80s and 90s.

When Matthew Shepard was murdered my first thought was, now "they" (straights aka breeders) will see how we are treated.

When Nassib came out. my first thought was, sad to say, how long is he going to last in the league now? Time will tell.

Maybe you should just shut the **** up and quit trying to whitemansplain to us queers how to we should be thinking and feeling about ourselves.
 

CO. Hoosier

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Does it really not bother you because it kindof sounds like it does?
Gay Pride doesn't bother me as a stand alone issue. As I said, I can take it or leave it. But I think the increase in self-loathing of all things Uncle Sam as compared with the increase is gay Pride (even as gay rights becomes more establishment orthodoxy) is curious and worth a deep thoughtful dive as to why we pull pride in two different directions. Pride is one of the seven deadly sins, but it is also the only one of the seven that has a useful purpose, IMO. Maybe the answer is in how we look at pride, but that kind of situational belief really begs the question. I think your communal positive reinforcement response also begs the question.

I expected the morons to chime in. Your post isn't one of those.
 

Hoopsdoc1978

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Wow. The fact that you are willing to victim blame Matthew Shepard says it all.

Next you're probably going to tell us that the Pulse nightclub victims were to blame because they made the choice to gather at a place where they could be targeted.

You wanna know what I, a lesbian female, first thought of when the Pulse mass shooting news broke? I thought about how many times I thought about getting shot by someone while crossing College Ave from the parking lot to go into Bullwinkles in the 80s and 90s.

When Matthew Shepard was murdered my first thought was, now "they" (straights aka breeders) will see how we are treated.

When Nassib came out. my first thought was, sad to say, how long is he going to last in the league now? Time will tell.

Maybe you should just shut the **** up and quit trying to whitemansplain to us queers how to we should be thinking and feeling about ourselves.
“Breeders”? “Whitemansplain”?

Lol.
 

HooDatGuy

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Wow. The fact that you are willing to victim blame Matthew Shepard says it all.

Next you're probably going to tell us that the Pulse nightclub victims were to blame because they made the choice to gather at a place where they could be targeted.

You wanna know what I, a lesbian female, first thought of when the Pulse mass shooting news broke? I thought about how many times I thought about getting shot by someone while crossing College Ave from the parking lot to go into Bullwinkles in the 80s and 90s.

When Matthew Shepard was murdered my first thought was, now "they" (straights aka breeders) will see how we are treated.

When Nassib came out. my first thought was, sad to say, how long is he going to last in the league now? Time will tell.

Maybe you should just shut the **** up and quit trying to whitemansplain to us queers how to we should be thinking and feeling about ourselves.
Come down off your cross. No one is out to get you.
 
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TommyCracker

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It already is a nothingburger. Stop denying progress.

It is? When did that happen?

There still seems to be a lot of people really bothered by it.

How about globally?

Communities that celebrate and recognize pride are basically saying we're understanding of a person's struggle.

Even today many people have to choose if they want to be free and love or if they want to serve and/or just not get harassed in their community.

Remember don't ask, don't tell policies?

Yeah that's how I interpret your argument here.
 
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HooDatGuy

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It is? When did that happen?

There still seems to be a lot of people really bothered by it.

How about globally?

Communities that celebrate and recognize pride are basically saying we're understanding of a person's struggle.

Even today many people have to choose if they want to be free and love or if they want to serve and/or just not get harassed in their community.

Remember don't ask, don't tell policies?

Yeah that's how I interpret your argument here.
You guys really need to get out of Indiana. This has nothing to do with don’t ask don’t tell, that’s just horseshit that you spun up yourself.
 

IUAlum

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Gay Pride doesn't bother me as a stand alone issue. As I said, I can take it or leave it. But I think the increase in self-loathing of all things Uncle Sam as compared with the increase is gay Pride (even as gay rights becomes more establishment orthodoxy) is curious and worth a deep thoughtful dive as to why we pull pride in two different directions. Pride is one of the seven deadly sins, but it is also the only one of the seven that has a useful purpose, IMO. Maybe the answer is in how we look at pride, but that kind of situational belief really begs the question. I think your communal positive reinforcement response also begs the question.

I expected the morons to chime in. Your post isn't one of those.

You know nothing of what you speak.

The increase in Pride has to do a lot more about the commercialization of it and corporations realizing that there is money to be made with a certain population of them there queers. Kinda like the pink ribbon breast cancer crap.

Back in the day we marched for our rights and visability. We marched for AIDS. We fought for the right to exist. As we learned over the past 5 years, the fight is not over. Our hard fought progress can be rolled back. We can not sit back and say it battle is over. For some of us, that is why Pride is more important than ever.
 

Marvin the Martian

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HooDatGuy

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You know nothing of what you speak.

The increase in Pride has to do a lot more about the commercialization of it and corporations realizing that there is money to be made with a certain population of them there queers. Kinda like the pink ribbon breast cancer crap.

Back in the day we marched for our rights and visability. We marched for AIDS. We fought for the right to exist. As we learned over the past 5 years, the fight is not over. Our hard fought progress can be rolled back. We can not sit back and say it battle is over. For some of us, that is why Pride is more important than ever.
You’re so brave.
 
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IUAlum

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Hoopsdoc1978

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