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Tom Allen: Sadly, my new assessment (Long)

Allen has proven he can win games at Indiana in both, 2019 and 2020. He had good QBing in both of those seasons along with an excellent OC for the 2019 season in Deboer.

Common sense tells us that IF he has a good OC and good QB play, he can win more than he loses. The flip side tells us he can lose a boatload of games if he has a below average OC. Allen simply doesn't know that side of the ball....

Coaches make programs, just look at Mark Stoops in Lexington. He has elevated UK football tremendously and they're ranked in the top 10. Stoops has a couple of key recruiters on staff and they have done very well on the recruiting trail. To his credit, he has also hired very competent OC and DC...You can't swing and miss with those two jobs, particularly when you consider the salaries they command.

Allen whiffed with the Sheridan experiment, that's a no-no and we find ourselves here. Hopefully Bell can doctor our offense to a small bowl game. It sucks having low expectations but a 2 win season will generally do that.
 
I would say to answer your premise question would be putting bigger money into assistant coaches. Ie a top OL coach, who has consistently put guys into the league, and pay him $800K (which hopefully would be more than he is currently making somewhere else).

A new Spec Teams Coordinator only (ie no TE or husky too).

Maybe a super top DB coach (like from LSU who sends guys to league a lot) and pay him what our CB/S coaches make and he coaches all DBs. Let Witt be just DC only (Allen would still be highly involved I’m sure) and a top new LB coach, who would also coach the Bull or Husky (whatever Coach T also has) and can also recruit well too.

It would take more money to have a truly elite coaching staff who know how to get things done.

Removing LB from Witt allows him to just focus on oversight and game plan. The new STC, OL LB and DB coaches would (should) know how to develop and recruit well too. Ideally with SEC or B10 pedigree and a track record. Hopefully that would help buffer and build up Allen as HC so not “starting from scratch.”

Otherwise, if willing to pay $6M a year, you could bring in someone like Cinci coach Bicknell or Stoops at KY type of proven commodity.

Im still open and hopeful Allen can get it going, but don’t think his staff now (especially OL coach!) is top tier worthy.
Allen says accountability is a big part of LEO, but it's hard to see where thats demonstrated. I too struggled a bit with the severance to Sheridan being paid out of Allen's salary, but on the other hand if you wanted Allen to be more careful with his hires and "Accountable" wouldn't that have been the way to do it? Short of canning him, which really isn't an option due to the buyout, forcing him to eat Sheridan's salary was a good way to drive home the point. Unfortunately it probably prevented Allen from pulling the trigger on Hiller, if he wanted to, to the detriment of the program.

I want to see Allen succeed. His heart is clearly in the right spot. I think he does positively influence the lives of the young men who come to IU. But I think he has an expectations problem (doesn't set them high enough for individual performance of players and coaches) and an accountability problem (doesn't hold players or coaches accountable for mistakes). In general Allen is a really nice guy, unfortunately there are people who don't maximize performance when leadership is too nice. A lot of players need to be coached "hard" meaning striving for perfection and then reaching excellence. Not sure anyone in this program is striving for perfection.
I don't think coach Allen is too nice to not get on to players or coaches. We aren't in the office with him and the player or the coach. Just because you are nice and positive doesn't mean you can't be tough on people when needed. You don't have to be an a** like coach Wilson to be tough when needed, plenty of us nice coaches are tough when needed.
 
Allen has proven he can win games at Indiana in both, 2019 and 2020. He had good QBing in both of those seasons along with an excellent OC for the 2019 season in Deboer.

Common sense tells us that IF he has a good OC and good QB play, he can win more than he loses. The flip side tells us he can lose a boatload of games if he has a below average OC. Allen simply doesn't know that side of the ball....

Coaches make programs, just look at Mark Stoops in Lexington. He has elevated UK football tremendously and they're ranked in the top 10. Stoops has a couple of key recruiters on staff and they have done very well on the recruiting trail. To his credit, he has also hired very competent OC and DC...You can't swing and miss with those two jobs, particularly when you consider the salaries they command.

Allen whiffed with the Sheridan experiment, that's a no-no and we find ourselves here. Hopefully Bell can doctor our offense to a small bowl game. It sucks having low expectations but a 2 win season will generally do that.
Don't forget it was because coach DeBoer that recommended to coach Allen that Sheridan was ready to be OC. After the 2020 season who knew he wasn't ready except those of us that saw the offense was given very short fields over and over.
 
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Don't forget it was because coach Sheridan that recommended to coach Allen that Sheridan was ready to be OC. After the 2020 season who knew he wasn't ready except those of us that saw the offense was given very short fields over and over.
It was DeBoer who recommended Sheridan. Not sure anyone here knew whether NS was a good or bad pick.
 
I don't think coach Allen is too nice to not get on to players or coaches. We aren't in the office with him and the player or the coach. Just because you are nice and positive doesn't mean you can't be tough on people when needed. You don't have to be an a** like coach Wilson to be tough when needed, plenty of us nice coaches are tough when needed.
nice guys finish last. we need an ass kicker not an ass kisser.
 
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To Jerry K - I was struck by your mention of the 1945 game as you and I are likely the only two on this thread who saw that game. I was an 11-year-old on a Boys Club trip. Sat in the end zone in that old stadium and had a straight on view of George Taliferro scoring the only TD of the game (7-2). Your comments brought back a lot of memories after so many years as a season ticket holder. My time at IU was broken up by the draft (and no money) but did return to finish. Two sons and 3 grandchildren with seven degrees from IU.

Also, at 88 thank you for your post .

Walkerman '59
To Walkerman-thanks and so glad to learn that there is another one of us still alive. As you and others who post here I am a super ardent IU fan. Like you I was drafted-just after I graduated in 1956-spent most of two years in Okinawa. Have been mostly fortunate in life and hope same for you. Live most of the time in Palm Desert CA-if you are ever out this way (or any other old IU guys-gals) would love to hear from you. Best game I ever saw-IU beat heavily favored Purdue to get to Rose Bowl. Been to the final fours IU was in. Still should have beaten Duke in Minneapolis-lucky enough to have been there with my wife and IU daughter also in New Orleans with them for win over Syrcause. Would love to see the IU-Kentucky basketball series resumed-games at Indy were great-50-50 crowds. Many memories.
Jerry K '56
 
The problem does’t exist with the coaches themselves. It’s our history of athletic directors. And, IU has deliberately chosen to hire ADs that are part of IU’s little family. You spend your entire career insulated in IU’s athletic
group, all you know is the mom and pop shop environment. These are the people driving the short bus.
You fire a coach and hire his replacement the same day without so much as any kind of search? Mom and pop maneuver. You hire an ex-player who has never coached college basketball and then hire two guys to “help him navigate” the college landscape? Mom and pop.
Fans act shocked that we resemble a G5 operation? When your leaders are running the show the only way they know how, like a G5 program, you get what you get.
Hell, I don’t know if a G5 school would even do those things?
Just to add, decisions are made in these circles by a handful of people with money. MSU gave Tucker an insane amount of money and ridiculous contract because 2 wealthy donors wanted him as the coach.
 
I don't think coach Allen is too nice to not get on to players or coaches. We aren't in the office with him and the player or the coach. Just because you are nice and positive doesn't mean you can't be tough on people when needed. You don't have to be an a** like coach Wilson to be tough when needed, plenty of us nice coaches are tough when needed.
You're right, I'm not behind closed doors or in practice every day so i don't know how tough Allen can be. I am in no way advocating for a Wilson type coach, I think in this day they become very ineffective very quickly and most folks don't respond or tune out, particularly when it is without severe penalties (like losing your career and getting cut as in the NFL). The toughness needs to be doled out very judiciously with particular attention paid to who can benefit from it versus who gets deflated by it.

I guess trying to fundamentally find the problem is with Allen is at least a little bit flawed. He has a very bad OL which affects the entire performance of the offense and, to a degree, the whole team in that mistakes on offense create problems for the defense that has to respond. Defensively, at least right now, the secondary is not performing at its best and the DL doesn't consistent get pressure on opposing QBs. Maybe that's all it is. The OL problem I've talked about way too much at this point and there really is no more reason to talk about it, I doubt it will be solved during this season - I hope so, but unfortunately I have been conditioned to be a pessimist there.

So is the solution for Allen fundamentally just a larger salary pool for assistants? Would/could Allen make better decisions on assistants with more money at his disposal? I think the HC spot pays a pretty good salary at this point to attract talent there, maybe not as much for assistants? I'm just frustrated and spoiled by 2019 and 2020 I guess.
 
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Allen has proven he can win games at Indiana in both, 2019 and 2020. He had good QBing in both of those seasons along with an excellent OC for the 2019 season in Deboer.

Common sense tells us that IF he has a good OC and good QB play, he can win more than he loses. The flip side tells us he can lose a boatload of games if he has a below average OC. Allen simply doesn't know that side of the ball....

Coaches make programs, just look at Mark Stoops in Lexington. He has elevated UK football tremendously and they're ranked in the top 10. Stoops has a couple of key recruiters on staff and they have done very well on the recruiting trail. To his credit, he has also hired very competent OC and DC...You can't swing and miss with those two jobs, particularly when you consider the salaries they command.

Allen whiffed with the Sheridan experiment, that's a no-no and we find ourselves here. Hopefully Bell can doctor our offense to a small bowl game. It sucks having low expectations but a 2 win season will generally do that.
Add to that Decent OL play. A good OC and QB can overcome average OL play, but bad OL play can tank the OC and QB. I'm hopeful Bell can be that OC and Baze can be more consistent, but they each need the OL to step up for that to happen.
We had a lot of change in the offseason, to be sitting 3-1 by not even coming close to playing their best or a full game, is very fortunate. Looking forward to seeing some progress this week and beating Neb.
 
In general Allen is a really nice guy, unfortunately there are people who don't maximize performance when leadership is too nice. A lot of players need to be coached "hard" meaning striving for perfection and then reaching excellence. Not sure anyone in this program is striving for perfection.
Look where coaching "hard" in search of perfection landed Bob Knight. Many IU fans, influential enough to help get his ass canned, clamored that times had changed. Remember, recruits today are of the coddled generation. Too harsh of a scolding and feelings become hurt. Hurt feelings are not status quo in our twisted way of thinking today.
 
You're right, I'm not behind closed doors or in practice every day so i don't know how tough Allen can be. I am in no way advocating for a Wilson type coach, I think in this day they become very ineffective very quickly and most folks don't respond or tune out, particularly when it is without severe penalties (like losing your career and getting cut as in the NFL). The toughness needs to be doled out very judiciously with particular attention paid to who can benefit from it versus who gets deflated by it.

I guess trying to fundamentally find the problem is with Allen is at least a little bit flawed. He has a very bad OL which affects the entire performance of the offense and, to a degree, the whole team in that mistakes on offense create problems for the defense that has to respond. Defensively, at least right now, the secondary is not performing at its best and the DL doesn't consistent get pressure on opposing QBs. Maybe that's all it is. The OL problem I've talked about way too much at this point and there really is no more reason to talk about it, I doubt it will be solved during this season - I hope so, but unfortunately I have been conditioned to be a pessimist there.

So is the solution for Allen fundamentally just a larger salary pool for assistants? Would/could Allen make better decisions on assistants with more money at his disposal? I think the HC spot pays a pretty good salary at this point to attract talent there, maybe not as much for assistants? I'm just frustrated and spoiled by 2019 and 2020 I guess.
I too worry about choices coach Allen makes at times. Coaching options haven't worked out that great except for DeBoer. Coach Allen favors people he knows and that limits the pool he can choose from, but I have to give him credit with this last group of new hires. I do wonder if coach would bring in players with a bit of attitude as I was always accused of liking players with a bit of a** in them. I did because they were often the winners on the team that made game winning plays. Now I not talking about players out of control just ones that would rise up when challenged by others.
 
This is a tough post for me to write about a man I like and thought was the right hybrid of Heps passion/love of IU, and Mallory’s toughness.

But six year’s in, after yesterday’s beat down at Cinci, I have to take a new, hard look at what I’m afraid I’ve felt might be the case but was hoping would change.

Being totally honest now, without letting my “Hiller loyalty gene” affect my assessment of the results, for the first time I am now concerned Allen is not the right person for the job to take IU to another level.

While heart, intensity and optimism do go a long way. And he has seemingly recruited better than any recent IU coaches. (I now add seemingly bc we don’t play many freshman and few of the good ones have developed into studs after a few years, so player development seems to be very stifled.)

Life as a P5 HC is not easy and at a program like IU and the margin for error is thinner.

Issue #1: Your staff. If you are a first time HC in B10 East, a confident leader wants the “smartest people he can get” and is willing to have a staff full of future HC’s in the making. Unfortunately Allen either made some insecure picks, is not a great assessor of talent or was limited by salary budget to hire better staff. Then throw in hesitancy to make changes quicker if not having excellent results, in some cases anyway, and he finds himself in this situation in year six!

The only home run hire, that at the time was a break the record $850K salary hire, was DeBoer, who had an absolute proven track record. None of Womack, Sheridan, Warren or Witt came in with a proven OC or DC track record. Sheridan, Womack Warren & Witt we’re all supposedly “hot young coaches” Womack turned out a good one. I feel like Witt can still be a good one, but he’s not solely in charge of defense to be held fully accountable. I feel Warren was asked to leave in a year (bc on defense Allen has more conviction) and Sheridan was way over his head.

Bell had a prior track record, but even though I blame UMass on bad career choice by a young coach wanting a HC job, he didn’t come in with DeBoer credentials. And he’s off to a “better than Sheridan” start, but that is a low bar.

Wanting to be fair, how much of that is IU AD giving Allen a limited salary pool to work with? The money give back for Sheridan NEVER s well with me, sent a possibility chilling message to Allen: you have to chip away your salary for every bad coach you want to replace. I could be wrong, but that’s how it looked.

I was calling for Hiller’s job easily 2 seasons ago, maybe 3. He started with Allen. After 3 seasons the OL was never great and the OL recruits never off the charts or developing well either. Everyone pointed out “Where is the development?” But yet Hiller is up to $500K and no one could figure out how the day after PU we didn’t have a “We thank Coaches Sheridan and Hiller for their service” it was just Sheridan. I thought a new OC should have a say in picking his staff, but at least his OL coach?

I have been critical of our third “coordinator” too -Special teams. The prior one, our LB coach who Allen made just STC to give him “coordinator experience” was horrible in that role for 2 seasons. Thankfully DeBoer took him with him to Fresno St. His replacement, Coach T, who was bumped up to staff originally from a grad assistant, is a rah rah guy, but once again, this season we’ve seen two kicks out of bounds in 2 critical moments late in games, no real return game and vs Cinci we saw a roughing the kicker in 4th quarter when we had them 4th & 15, and Delp (Why is he our return guy?) fair catch inside the 5 also late in 4th quarter. Our special teams has good actual specialists (I credit Allen for that recruiting focus) but really bad execution and no real success for last 2-3 years under current coach T. Special Teams is a big part of football!

Game Management- I’ve tried to overlook some past criticisms, but I can’t say I have ever felt like we are a well oiled machine in game decision making or clock/time out management under Allen. Yesterday a play to epitomize that, we are trying to speed a wildcat play on 4th & 1, but no one appeared to tell McCully, who had to rush onto the field to be the actual wildcat! Then Cinci calls a timeout, alters it’s D, and then we come out of a timeout with a procedure call, move back 5 yards and have to punt! That kind of keystone cops may fall on Bell the OC, or “HC of the offense” per Allen, but it’s a TEAM thing in the end that has to fall on the HC.

Player development: We have seen some players on defense improve: this year I think of DE’s Bryant & Robbins, as well as LB’s Casey and Jones (playing quite well). Pierre too in backfield.

But it kills me to see what’s happening with Mullen this year. That guy brings joy to the team (watch how much he smiles doing fight song in locker room after a win.). He was a FR all American and he seems to be regressing this year, and his face shows it on the sideline. JWill looked more lost yesterday too. Those two guys actually can play I believe, but somehow things are not clicking for them and DB’s.

And what about other big recent top recruits? Haven’t we been stacking classes? Where are they now?

The positives for Allen: I do believe the team has grit and fight, which is a huge intangible. I feel Allen is a likeable guy who breeds loyalty, and the team represents itself and IU well.

But as much as this pains me to say, I now wonder if DC is the best spot on the bus for Allen as a coach? Imagine DeBoer as HC and Allen as his DC. I think with a highly productive offense, last year’s D and even this year’s D would have fared much better.

As a defensive player, when you see the ineptitude of Sheridan, Hiller and and offense that can’t function with ease, it starts to hurt your own confidence, enthusiasm & mental game. They can’t carry them forever, and Cinci game, sadly felt the most like last year. A year where THAT crap 2-10 team held MSU to 15 pts but lost 15-10 (with a pick 6 from the offense). They also had Cinci on the ropes but fumbled on the one, threw two bad picks, and gave up a KO return for a TD right after we scored to go up.. It breaks the spirit of the proud D who has made lots of big stops along the way.

I love IUFB. and have so wanted Allen to succeed. But I said it after last season, by sticking with Hiller, he was risking his job and fan trust, and sure enough it is now happening with me. I don’t want IU to be a laughing stock team and like we see now at Kansas (and everywhere DeBoer goes) programs can be turned around, “even at IU.” But it takes excellence, which I think Allen has the potential for as a DC, but not sure he has shown the ability to surround himself and lead a staff to be able to take IU to a higher place in B10 or beyond.

I have officially pulled the band aid and blinders off. It saddens me but it’s only through truth and accountability that we can we deal with the issues head on.

Here is to IU finding its true north ahead. May Coach Allen find a way to make the changes he needs to make it. Or the AD to find the guts and money to make a change and get a true proven commodity (see UK hire of Stoops and results there now)
Let’s Go IU.
 
I think Coach Allen has clearly upgraded the recruiting by
going into Florida and Georgia primarly to get not all 4-5
stars (maybe Penix was an exception) but athletes who
can get better with good coaching and clearly these
athletes are much better that almost any all-state player
from Indiana.
I think Indiana HS football probably only produces about
10 gimme Div 1 players per year and with Ohio State
Purdue - Notre Dame - Michigan etc poching these players
it is hard to get more than 2 or 3 of these guys.
I think the only way we are going to be able to compete on
an annual basis is for Coach Allen and his staff to really go
into the portal and get players that can compete right
away to blend in with his recruits ?
It seems that a lot of top recruits who don't play early at
big time programs do put their names in the portal so
this maybe to our benefit to bring in more mature lineman
who can play right away ????
I am not a coach a recruiter or ever played football but
no matter how good you can coach - talent will win out
in the long run - the Alabama's of the world get the best
players so it is much more easy for them !!!!
 
This is a tough post for me to write about a man I like and thought was the right hybrid of Heps passion/love of IU, and Mallory’s toughness.

But six year’s in, after yesterday’s beat down at Cinci, I have to take a new, hard look at what I’m afraid I’ve felt might be the case but was hoping would change.

Being totally honest now, without letting my “Hiller loyalty gene” affect my assessment of the results, for the first time I am now concerned Allen is not the right person for the job to take IU to another level.

While heart, intensity and optimism do go a long way. And he has seemingly recruited better than any recent IU coaches. (I now add seemingly bc we don’t play many freshman and few of the good ones have developed into studs after a few years, so player development seems to be very stifled.)

Life as a P5 HC is not easy and at a program like IU and the margin for error is thinner.

Issue #1: Your staff. If you are a first time HC in B10 East, a confident leader wants the “smartest people he can get” and is willing to have a staff full of future HC’s in the making. Unfortunately Allen either made some insecure picks, is not a great assessor of talent or was limited by salary budget to hire better staff. Then throw in hesitancy to make changes quicker if not having excellent results, in some cases anyway, and he finds himself in this situation in year six!

The only home run hire, that at the time was a break the record $850K salary hire, was DeBoer, who had an absolute proven track record. None of Womack, Sheridan, Warren or Witt came in with a proven OC or DC track record. Sheridan, Womack Warren & Witt we’re all supposedly “hot young coaches” Womack turned out a good one. I feel like Witt can still be a good one, but he’s not solely in charge of defense to be held fully accountable. I feel Warren was asked to leave in a year (bc on defense Allen has more conviction) and Sheridan was way over his head.

Bell had a prior track record, but even though I blame UMass on bad career choice by a young coach wanting a HC job, he didn’t come in with DeBoer credentials. And he’s off to a “better than Sheridan” start, but that is a low bar.

Wanting to be fair, how much of that is IU AD giving Allen a limited salary pool to work with? The money give back for Sheridan NEVER s well with me, sent a possibility chilling message to Allen: you have to chip away your salary for every bad coach you want to replace. I could be wrong, but that’s how it looked.

I was calling for Hiller’s job easily 2 seasons ago, maybe 3. He started with Allen. After 3 seasons the OL was never great and the OL recruits never off the charts or developing well either. Everyone pointed out “Where is the development?” But yet Hiller is up to $500K and no one could figure out how the day after PU we didn’t have a “We thank Coaches Sheridan and Hiller for their service” it was just Sheridan. I thought a new OC should have a say in picking his staff, but at least his OL coach?

I have been critical of our third “coordinator” too -Special teams. The prior one, our LB coach who Allen made just STC to give him “coordinator experience” was horrible in that role for 2 seasons. Thankfully DeBoer took him with him to Fresno St. His replacement, Coach T, who was bumped up to staff originally from a grad assistant, is a rah rah guy, but once again, this season we’ve seen two kicks out of bounds in 2 critical moments late in games, no real return game and vs Cinci we saw a roughing the kicker in 4th quarter when we had them 4th & 15, and Delp (Why is he our return guy?) fair catch inside the 5 also late in 4th quarter. Our special teams has good actual specialists (I credit Allen for that recruiting focus) but really bad execution and no real success for last 2-3 years under current coach T. Special Teams is a big part of football!

Game Management- I’ve tried to overlook some past criticisms, but I can’t say I have ever felt like we are a well oiled machine in game decision making or clock/time out management under Allen. Yesterday a play to epitomize that, we are trying to speed a wildcat play on 4th & 1, but no one appeared to tell McCully, who had to rush onto the field to be the actual wildcat! Then Cinci calls a timeout, alters it’s D, and then we come out of a timeout with a procedure call, move back 5 yards and have to punt! That kind of keystone cops may fall on Bell the OC, or “HC of the offense” per Allen, but it’s a TEAM thing in the end that has to fall on the HC.

Player development: We have seen some players on defense improve: this year I think of DE’s Bryant & Robbins, as well as LB’s Casey and Jones (playing quite well). Pierre too in backfield.

But it kills me to see what’s happening with Mullen this year. That guy brings joy to the team (watch how much he smiles doing fight song in locker room after a win.). He was a FR all American and he seems to be regressing this year, and his face shows it on the sideline. JWill looked more lost yesterday too. Those two guys actually can play I believe, but somehow things are not clicking for them and DB’s.

And what about other big recent top recruits? Haven’t we been stacking classes? Where are they now?

The positives for Allen: I do believe the team has grit and fight, which is a huge intangible. I feel Allen is a likeable guy who breeds loyalty, and the team represents itself and IU well.

But as much as this pains me to say, I now wonder if DC is the best spot on the bus for Allen as a coach? Imagine DeBoer as HC and Allen as his DC. I think with a highly productive offense, last year’s D and even this year’s D would have fared much better.

As a defensive player, when you see the ineptitude of Sheridan, Hiller and and offense that can’t function with ease, it starts to hurt your own confidence, enthusiasm & mental game. They can’t carry them forever, and Cinci game, sadly felt the most like last year. A year where THAT crap 2-10 team held MSU to 15 pts but lost 15-10 (with a pick 6 from the offense). They also had Cinci on the ropes but fumbled on the one, threw two bad picks, and gave up a KO return for a TD right after we scored to go up.. It breaks the spirit of the proud D who has made lots of big stops along the way.

I love IUFB. and have so wanted Allen to succeed. But I said it after last season, by sticking with Hiller, he was risking his job and fan trust, and sure enough it is now happening with me. I don’t want IU to be a laughing stock team and like we see now at Kansas (and everywhere DeBoer goes) programs can be turned around, “even at IU.” But it takes excellence, which I think Allen has the potential for as a DC, but not sure he has shown the ability to surround himself and lead a staff to be able to take IU to a higher place in B10 or beyond.

I have officially pulled the band aid and blinders off. It saddens me but it’s only through truth and accountability that we can we deal with the issues head on.

Here is to IU finding its true north ahead. May Coach Allen find a way to make the changes he needs to make it. Or the AD to find the guts and money to make a change and get a true proven commodity (see UK hire of Stoops and results there now)
Let’s Go IU.

Mallory's toughness? Did you want him fired after he lost 51-20 to an unranked Michigan State team in his sixth year?
 
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I think Coach Allen has clearly upgraded the recruiting by
going into Florida and Georgia primarly to get not all 4-5
stars (maybe Penix was an exception) but athletes who
can get better with good coaching and clearly these
athletes are much better that almost any all-state player
from Indiana.
I think Indiana HS football probably only produces about
10 gimme Div 1 players per year and with Ohio State
Purdue - Notre Dame - Michigan etc poching these players
it is hard to get more than 2 or 3 of these guys.
I think the only way we are going to be able to compete on
an annual basis is for Coach Allen and his staff to really go
into the portal and get players that can compete right
away to blend in with his recruits ?
It seems that a lot of top recruits who don't play early at
big time programs do put their names in the portal so
this maybe to our benefit to bring in more mature lineman
who can play right away ????
I am not a coach a recruiter or ever played football but
no matter how good you can coach - talent will win out
in the long run - the Alabama's of the world get the best
players so it is much more easy for them !!!!
I think the transfer portal can be of great help to us. So far we have mostly lost players who were not seeing much playing time, and bringing in those who were at big name programs. We are mostly not allowed to recruit JUCO players, so the transfer portal is our only option.
 
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I too worry about choices coach Allen makes at times. Coaching options haven't worked out that great except for DeBoer. Coach Allen favors people he knows and that limits the pool he can choose from, but I have to give him credit with this last group of new hires. I do wonder if coach would bring in players with a bit of attitude as I was always accused of liking players with a bit of a** in them. I did because they were often the winners on the team that made game winning plays. Now I not talking about players out of control just ones that would rise up when challenged by others.
Double B1G BINGO!!
 
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I think Coach Allen has clearly upgraded the recruiting by
going into Florida and Georgia primarly to get not all 4-5
stars (maybe Penix was an exception) but athletes who
can get better with good coaching and clearly these
athletes are much better that almost any all-state player
from Indiana.
I think Indiana HS football probably only produces about
10 gimme Div 1 players per year and with Ohio State
Purdue - Notre Dame - Michigan etc poching these players
it is hard to get more than 2 or 3 of these guys.
I think the only way we are going to be able to compete on
an annual basis is for Coach Allen and his staff to really go
into the portal and get players that can compete right
away to blend in with his recruits ?
It seems that a lot of top recruits who don't play early at
big time programs do put their names in the portal so
this maybe to our benefit to bring in more mature lineman
who can play right away ????
I am not a coach a recruiter or ever played football but
no matter how good you can coach - talent will win out
in the long run - the Alabama's of the world get the best
players so it is much more easy for them !!!!
...and I believe looking at the roster for several seasons, too many marginal Indiana HS players...more Georgia and Florida + Texas, California and Del-Mar-Va to fill that void...too many Hoosier Jr. and Sr. names we've never heard called in a game...even on ST's...
 
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Look where coaching "hard" in search of perfection landed Bob Knight. Many IU fans, influential enough to help get his ass canned, clamored that times had changed. Remember, recruits today are of the coddled generation. Too harsh of a scolding and feelings become hurt. Hurt feelings are not status quo in our twisted way of thinking today.
I agree, as I clarified later, very judicious use of "tough". But, to be fair, the search for perfection by Knight back then landed three NCAA championships. His techniques clearly wouldn't work today, but toughness can be demonstrated by use of bench time too within reason, or by expectations. There are a lot of motivational techniques to eke out better performance, I don't know what Allen uses.
 
I agree, as I clarified later, very judicious use of "tough". But, to be fair, the search for perfection by Knight back then landed three NCAA championships. His techniques clearly wouldn't work today, but toughness can be demonstrated by use of bench time too within reason, or by expectations. There are a lot of motivational techniques to eke out better performance, I don't know what Allen uses.
Tough-nosed discipline may work today if the one delivering it isn't an asshole at the same time. Let's face it, Bob Knight demonstrated a personality flaw that rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. As successful as he was, think what might have been without his temper tantrums.
 
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I think Coach Allen has clearly upgraded the recruiting by
going into Florida and Georgia primarly to get not all 4-5
stars (maybe Penix was an exception) but athletes who
can get better with good coaching and clearly these
athletes are much better that almost any all-state player
from Indiana.
I think Indiana HS football probably only produces about
10 gimme Div 1 players per year and with Ohio State
Purdue - Notre Dame - Michigan etc poching these players
it is hard to get more than 2 or 3 of these guys.
I think the only way we are going to be able to compete on
an annual basis is for Coach Allen and his staff to really go
into the portal and get players that can compete right
away to blend in with his recruits ?
It seems that a lot of top recruits who don't play early at
big time programs do put their names in the portal so
this maybe to our benefit to bring in more mature lineman
who can play right away ????
I am not a coach a recruiter or ever played football but
no matter how good you can coach - talent will win out
in the long run - the Alabama's of the world get the best
players so it is much more easy for them !!!!
I agree that the portal has to be used to help. One problem that I see this year is that it takes time for the portal players to blend in and learn the team schemes. Too much change and you get a lot of inconsistency, especially early. I only hope that they can overcome that soon this year.
 
I agree that the portal has to be used to help. One problem that I see this year is that it takes time for the portal players to blend in and learn the team schemes. Too much change and you get a lot of inconsistency, especially early. I only hope that they can overcome that soon this year.
That said, every team has portal players taking time to blend in and learn the team schemes. All fans hope they can overcome their inconsistencies soon.
 
As far as the state of Indiana, I wouldn’t take linemen unless they are top-10, and that may be generous. Find a way to recruit kids from the upper Midwest. It’s why Minnesota and Wisconsin have good run games and continuously re-stock from this region every year.
Top 10 as rated by Rivals and 24/7?
 
You're entitled to your opinion. My opinion is that your post, and particularly the timing of it, is kind of effed up.

It is September 25. We are 3-1. Two of our three wins were against quality teams. Our first loss, the only loss, was to a team that returned a lot of talent from its College Football Playoff season and never loses at home.

I don't disagree that some aspects of our play have been concerning. I discussed them in a thread I started. But we have two new coordinators and many new players. Some hiccups, especially early in the season, were inevitable.

Maybe you're right. Maybe Allen isn't the guy for the job. But to make that suggestion in September, with a big game coming up at Nebraska and bowl eligibility still very much in play, strikes me as unfair and inappropriate. Again, just my opinion.
This aged well. Not.
 
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Bowl eligibility is still in play. A little early for gloating.

Maryland, Rutgers, MSU, and Purdue are all varying degrees of winnable and they only need three of them.
I am not gloating. I’ve watched every game thinking things will be better. I will continue watching and hoping.
 
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Neither have you.

You never post in this forum and this is what finally prompts your participation?

Hoosiers47614 is right. It sounds like you're enjoying the 3 game skid. Go cheer for Purdue.
You appear to be wrong everywhere you post.
 
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TA has always been a gimmick coach who got lucky with the easiest schedules we’ve had in program history in back to back years. Mixed with no fans in 2020. Those Wilson teams with Sudfeld would’ve won 10 games with those schedules.

I don’t blame everyone for jumping on board with hope. The momentum was there to build from. We’ve had same as no success for decades. Unfortunately we’re paying for it now with a lame duck coach and likely nose dive next couple years before we can start over.
 
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TA has always been a gimmick coach who got lucky with the easiest schedules we’ve had in program history in back to back years. Mixed with no fans in 2020. Those Wilson teams with Sudfeld would’ve won 10 games with those schedules.

I don’t blame everyone for jumping on board with hope. The momentum was there to build from. We’ve had same as no success for decades. Unfortunately we’re paying for it now with a lame duck coach and likely nose dive next couple years before we can start over.
Wilson had zero defense until 2016. He never won 10 games nor would he, regardless of schedule. You forget his major gaffes. Rutgers at home giving up a 25 point lead late. Playing a really down Michigan program and giving up over 50 points in a loss. Bowling Green on the road. Navy at home where they ran for 4,000 yards that day. Revisionist history.
 
Wilson had zero defense until 2016. He never won 10 games nor would he, regardless of schedule. You forget his major gaffes. Rutgers at home giving up a 25 point lead late. Playing a really down Michigan program and giving up over 50 points in a loss. Bowling Green on the road. Navy at home where they ran for 4,000 yards that day. Revisionist history.
He also never played those schedules. Let’s not get started on the TA gaffes and game management mistakes. I’d rather have TA marry my daughter but I’d take KW all day in coaching my football team.
 
He also never played those schedules. Let’s not get started on the TA gaffes and game management mistakes. I’d rather have TA marry my daughter but I’d take KW all day in coaching my football team.
Yes, you would rather have jerk that recruits the final two years declining as they knew he was a jerk to players. Even Zander Diamont said coach Wilson called Hitler a great leader. Wilson couldn't even follow the guidelines set for him to follow which got him fired. Wilson had his gaffes game management mistakes like coach Allen so give up Wilson still coaching IU. You aren't very smart if you forgot all the gaffes can you remember MN game with the lateral that lost the game or the Rutgers game with a huge lead and lost at the end.
 
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Yes, you would rather have jerk that recruits the final two years declining as they knew he was a jerk to players. Even Zander Diamont said coach Wilson called Hitler a great leader. Wilson couldn't even follow the guidelines set for him to follow which got him fired. Wilson had his gaffes game management mistakes like coach Allen so give up Wilson still coaching IU. You are very smart if you forgot all the gaffes can you remember MN game with the lateral that lost the game or the Rutgers game with a huge lead and lost at the end.
He's a pu fan... Enough said... Don't waste your time...
 
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Yes, you would rather have jerk that recruits the final two years declining as they knew he was a jerk to players. Even Zander Diamont said coach Wilson called Hitler a great leader. Wilson couldn't even follow the guidelines set for him to follow which got him fired. Wilson had his gaffes game management mistakes like coach Allen so give up Wilson still coaching IU. You are very smart if you forgot all the gaffes can you remember MN game with the lateral that lost the game or the Rutgers game with a huge lead and lost at the end.
Can't disagree much. But the sonofabitch toughened forever the soft underbelly that was IUFB. Something Allen easily recognized and continues practicing to this day.
 
Even Zander Diamont said coach Wilson called Hitler a great leader.
If true, it seems like an odd thing to say in front of his "star" QB of Jewish heritage. I'm surprised Zander's old man didn't raise hell at the time. Let me guess, Coach Wilson was on one of his infamous drinking binges at the times of such insensitive utterance. That said, take away the genocide movement from his bio and Hitler probably was if you ask the right people.
 
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If true, it seems like an odd thing to say in front of his "star" QB of Jewish heritage. I'm surprised Zander's old man didn't raise hell at the time. Let me guess, Coach Wilson was on one of his infamous drinking binges at the times of such insensitive utterance. That said, take away the genocide movement from his bio and Hitler probably was if you ask the right people.
You would have to say Hitler was an evil ruler for what he got Germans to do.
 
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