Tom Allen: Sadly, my new assessment (Long)

[IndyIUFan66]

This is a tough post for me to write about a man I like and thought was the right hybrid of Heps passion/love of IU, and Mallory’s toughness.

But six year’s in, after yesterday’s beat down at Cinci, I have to take a new, hard look at what I’m afraid I’ve felt might be the case but was hoping would change.

Being totally honest now, without letting my “Hiller loyalty gene” affect my assessment of the results, for the first time I am now concerned Allen is not the right person for the job to take IU to another level.

While heart, intensity and optimism do go a long way. And he has seemingly recruited better than any recent IU coaches. (I now add seemingly bc we don’t play many freshman and few of the good ones have developed into studs after a few years, so player development seems to be very stifled.)

Life as a P5 HC is not easy and at a program like IU and the margin for error is thinner.

Issue #1: Your staff. If you are a first time HC in B10 East, a confident leader wants the “smartest people he can get” and is willing to have a staff full of future HC’s in the making. Unfortunately Allen either made some insecure picks, is not a great assessor of talent or was limited by salary budget to hire better staff. Then throw in hesitancy to make changes quicker if not having excellent results, in some cases anyway, and he finds himself in this situation in year six!

The only home run hire, that at the time was a break the record $850K salary hire, was DeBoer, who had an absolute proven track record. None of Womack, Sheridan, Warren or Witt came in with a proven OC or DC track record. Sheridan, Womack Warren & Witt we’re all supposedly “hot young coaches” Womack turned out a good one. I feel like Witt can still be a good one, but he’s not solely in charge of defense to be held fully accountable. I feel Warren was asked to leave in a year (bc on defense Allen has more conviction) and Sheridan was way over his head.

Bell had a prior track record, but even though I blame UMass on bad career choice by a young coach wanting a HC job, he didn’t come in with DeBoer credentials. And he’s off to a “better than Sheridan” start, but that is a low bar.

Wanting to be fair, how much of that is IU AD giving Allen a limited salary pool to work with? The money give back for Sheridan NEVER s well with me, sent a possibility chilling message to Allen: you have to chip away your salary for every bad coach you want to replace. I could be wrong, but that’s how it looked.

I was calling for Hiller’s job easily 2 seasons ago, maybe 3. He started with Allen. After 3 seasons the OL was never great and the OL recruits never off the charts or developing well either. Everyone pointed out “Where is the development?” But yet Hiller is up to $500K and no one could figure out how the day after PU we didn’t have a “We thank Coaches Sheridan and Hiller for their service” it was just Sheridan. I thought a new OC should have a say in picking his staff, but at least his OL coach?

I have been critical of our third “coordinator” too -Special teams. The prior one, our LB coach who Allen made just STC to give him “coordinator experience” was horrible in that role for 2 seasons. Thankfully DeBoer took him with him to Fresno St. His replacement, Coach T, who was bumped up to staff originally from a grad assistant, is a rah rah guy, but once again, this season we’ve seen two kicks out of bounds in 2 critical moments late in games, no real return game and vs Cinci we saw a roughing the kicker in 4th quarter when we had them 4th & 15, and Delp (Why is he our return guy?) fair catch inside the 5 also late in 4th quarter. Our special teams has good actual specialists (I credit Allen for that recruiting focus) but really bad execution and no real success for last 2-3 years under current coach T. Special Teams is a big part of football!

Game Management- I’ve tried to overlook some past criticisms, but I can’t say I have ever felt like we are a well oiled machine in game decision making or clock/time out management under Allen. Yesterday a play to epitomize that, we are trying to speed a wildcat play on 4th & 1, but no one appeared to tell McCully, who had to rush onto the field to be the actual wildcat! Then Cinci calls a timeout, alters it’s D, and then we come out of a timeout with a procedure call, move back 5 yards and have to punt! That kind of keystone cops may fall on Bell the OC, or “HC of the offense” per Allen, but it’s a TEAM thing in the end that has to fall on the HC.

Player development: We have seen some players on defense improve: this year I think of DE’s Bryant & Robbins, as well as LB’s Casey and Jones (playing quite well). Pierre too in backfield.

But it kills me to see what’s happening with Mullen this year. That guy brings joy to the team (watch how much he smiles doing fight song in locker room after a win.). He was a FR all American and he seems to be regressing this year, and his face shows it on the sideline. JWill looked more lost yesterday too. Those two guys actually can play I believe, but somehow things are not clicking for them and DB’s.

And what about other big recent top recruits? Haven’t we been stacking classes? Where are they now?

The positives for Allen: I do believe the team has grit and fight, which is a huge intangible. I feel Allen is a likeable guy who breeds loyalty, and the team represents itself and IU well.

But as much as this pains me to say, I now wonder if DC is the best spot on the bus for Allen as a coach? Imagine DeBoer as HC and Allen as his DC. I think with a highly productive offense, last year’s D and even this year’s D would have fared much better.

As a defensive player, when you see the ineptitude of Sheridan, Hiller and and offense that can’t function with ease, it starts to hurt your own confidence, enthusiasm & mental game. They can’t carry them forever, and Cinci game, sadly felt the most like last year. A year where THAT crap 2-10 team held MSU to 15 pts but lost 15-10 (with a pick 6 from the offense). They also had Cinci on the ropes but fumbled on the one, threw two bad picks, and gave up a KO return for a TD right after we scored to go up.. It breaks the spirit of the proud D who has made lots of big stops along the way.

I love IUFB. and have so wanted Allen to succeed. But I said it after last season, by sticking with Hiller, he was risking his job and fan trust, and sure enough it is now happening with me. I don’t want IU to be a laughing stock team and like we see now at Kansas (and everywhere DeBoer goes) programs can be turned around, “even at IU.” But it takes excellence, which I think Allen has the potential for as a DC, but not sure he has shown the ability to surround himself and lead a staff to be able to take IU to a higher place in B10 or beyond.

I have officially pulled the band aid and blinders off. It saddens me but it’s only through truth and accountability that we can we deal with the issues head on.

Here is to IU finding its true north ahead. May Coach Allen find a way to make the changes he needs to make it. Or the AD to find the guts and money to make a change and get a true proven commodity (see UK hire of Stoops and results there now)
Let’s Go IU.

 

[FiddlerV]

This is a tough post for me to write about a man I like and thought was the right hybrid of Heps passion/love of IU, and Mallory’s toughness.

But six year’s in, after yesterday’s beat down at Cinci, I have to take a new, hard look at what I’m afraid I’ve felt might be the case but was hoping would change.

Being totally honest now, without letting my “Hiller loyalty gene” affect my assessment for f the results, for the first time I am now concerned Allen is not the right person for the job to take IU to another level.

While heart, intensity and optimism do go a long way. And he has seemingly recruited better than any recent IU coaches. (I now add seemingly bc we don’t play many freshman and few of the good ones have developed into studs after a few years, so player development seems to be very stifled.)

Life as a P5 HC is not easy and at a program like IU and the margin for error is thinner.

Issue #1: Your staff. If you are a first time HC in B10 East, a confident leader wants the “smartest people he can get” and is willing to have a staff full of future HC’s in the making. Unfortunately Allen either made some insecure picks, is not a great assessor of talent or was limited by salary budget to hire better staff. Then throw in hesitancy to make changes quicker if not having excellent results, in some cases anyway, and he finds himself in this situation in year six!

The only home run hire, that at the time was a break the record $850K salary hire, was DeBoer, who had an absolute proven track record. None of Womack, Sheridan, Warren or Witt came in with a proven OC or DC track record. Sheridan, Womack Warren & Witt we’re all supposedly “hot young coaches” Womack turned out a good one. I feel like Witt can still be a good one, but he’s not solely in charge of defense to be held fully accountable. I feel Warren was asked to leave in a year (bc on defense Allen has more conviction) and Sheridan was way over his head.

Bell had a prior track record, but even though I blame UMass on bad career choice by a young coach wanting a HC job, he didn’t come in with DeBoer credentials. And he’s off to a “better than Sheridan” start, but that is a low bar.

Wanting to be fair, how much of that is IU AD giving Allen a limited salary pool to work with? The money give back for Sheridan NEVER set well with me, sent a possibility chilling message to Allen: you have to chip away your salary for every bad coach you want to replace. I could be wrong, but that’s how it looked.

I was calling for Hiller’s job easily 2 seasons ago, maybe 3. He started with Allen. After 3 seasons the OL was never great and the OL recruits never off the charts or developing well either. Everyone pointed out “Where is the development?” But yet Hiller is up to $500K and no one could figure out how the day after PU we didn’t have a “We thank Coaches Sheridan and Hiller for their service” it was just Sheridan. I though a new OC should have a say in picking his staff, but at least his OL coach?

I have been critical of our third “coordinator” too -Special teams. The prior one, our LB coach who Allen made just STC to give him “coordinator experience” was horrible in that role for 2 seasons. Thankfully DeBoer took him with him to Fresno St. His replacement, Coach T, who was bumped up to staff originally from grad assistant, is a rah rah guy, but once again, this season we’ve seen two kicks out of bounds in 2 critical moments late in games, no real return game and vs Cinci we saw a roughing the kicker in 4th quarter when we had them 4th & 15, and Delp (Why is he our return guy?) fair catch inside the 5 also in 4th quarter. Our special teams has good actual specialists (I credit Allen for that recruiting focus) but really bad execution and no real success for last 2-3 years under current coach T. That’s a big part of football!

Game Management- I’ve tried to overlook some past criticisms, but I can’t say I have ever felt like we are a well oiled machine in game decision making or clock/time out management. Yesterday a play to epitomize that, we are trying to speed a wildcat play on 4th & 1, but no one appeared to tell McCully, who had to rush onto the field to be the actual wildcat! Then Cinci calls a timeout, alters it’s D, and then we come out of a timeout with a procedure call, move back 5 yards and have to punt! That kind of keystone cops may fall on Bell the OC, or “HC of the offense” per Allen, but it’s a TEAM thing in the end that has to fall on the HC.

Player development: We have seen some players on defense improve: this year I think of DE’s Bryant & Robbins, as well as LB’s Casey and Jones (playing quite well). Pierre too in backfield.

But it kills me to see what’s happening with Mullen this year. That guy brings joy to the team (watch how much he smiles doing fight song in locker room after a win.). He was a FR all American and he seems to be regressing this year, and his face shows it on the sideline. JWill looked more lost yesterday too. Those two guys actually can play I believe, but somehow things are not clicking for them and DB’s.

The positives for Allen: I do believe the team has grit and fight, which is a huge intangible. I also believe Allen is a likeable guy who breeds loyalty, and the team represents itself and IU well.

But as much as this pains me to say, I now wonder if DC is the best spot on the bus for Allen as a coach? Imagine DeBoer as HC and Allen as his DC. I think with a highly productive offense, last year’s D and even this year’s D would have fared much better.

I believe as a defensive player, when you see the ineptitude of Sheridan, Hiller and and offense that can’t function with ease, it starts to hurt your own confidence or enthusiasm. They can’t carry them forever, and Cinci game, sadly felt the most like last year. A year where THAT crap team held MSU to 15 pts but lost 15-10 (with a pick 6 from the offense). They also had Cinci on the ropes but fumbled on the one, threw a bad pick, and gave up a KO return for a TD. It breaks the spirit of the proud D who has made lots of big stops along the way.

I love IUFB. I have so wanted Allen to succeed. But I said it after last season, by sticking with Hiller, he was risking his job and fan trust, and sure enough it is now happening with me. I don’t want IU to be a laughing stock team and like we see now at Kansas (and everywhere DeBoer goes) programs can be turned around, “even at IU.” But it takes excellence, which I think Allen has the potential for as a DC, but not sure he has shown the ability to build and lead a staff to surround himself to be able to take IU to a higher place in B10 or beyond.

I have officially pulled the band aid and blinders off. It saddens me but it’s only through truth and accountability that we can we deal with the issues head on. Here is to IU finding its true north ahead. May Coach Allen find a way to make the changes he needs to make it. Go IU.

 

[FiddlerV]

Thoughtful post. I agree with the focus on assistants. We are not getting the job done there. If it is hard to recruit players to Bloomington, it is really hard to recruit staff. The name "Indiana" is not a strong addition to a future football resume. I don't know how to fix the problem

 

[Hoosiers Rising]

Thoughtful post. I agree with the focus on assistants. We are not getting the job done there. If it is hard to recruit players to Bloomington, it is really hard to recruit staff. The name "Indiana" is not a strong addition to a future football resume. I don't know how to fix the problem

Money, and lots of it.

 

[ORG]

Your concerns are noted.

 

[daddyhoosier]

Appreciate your well-thought-out and honest post. It's hard to take seriously those who go off the deep end on the first bad play of the season. I can tell it pains you but you are just calling it like you see it.

 

[iueyedoc99]

Money, and lots of it.

I know things change quickly in the world of coaching salaries, but when Tom got his recent extension it was top 20 money (18th or 19th in the country).

 

[iueyedoc99]

Money, and lots of it.

I know things change quickly in the world of coaching salaries, but when Tom got his recent extension it was as top 20 money (18th or 19th in the country).

 

[Bowlmania]

This is a tough post for me to write about a man I like and thought was the right hybrid of Heps passion/love of IU, and Mallory’s toughness.

But six year’s in, after yesterday’s beat down at Cinci, I have to take a new, hard look at what I’m afraid I’ve felt might be the case but was hoping would change.

Being totally honest now, without letting my “Hiller loyalty gene” affect my assessment of the results, for the first time I am now concerned Allen is not the right person for the job to take IU to another level.

While heart, intensity and optimism do go a long way. And he has seemingly recruited better than any recent IU coaches. (I now add seemingly bc we don’t play many freshman and few of the good ones have developed into studs after a few years, so player development seems to be very stifled.)

Life as a P5 HC is not easy and at a program like IU and the margin for error is thinner.

Issue #1: Your staff. If you are a first time HC in B10 East, a confident leader wants the “smartest people he can get” and is willing to have a staff full of future HC’s in the making. Unfortunately Allen either made some insecure picks, is not a great assessor of talent or was limited by salary budget to hire better staff. Then throw in hesitancy to make changes quicker if not having excellent results, in some cases anyway, and he finds himself in this situation in year six!

The only home run hire, that at the time was a break the record $850K salary hire, was DeBoer, who had an absolute proven track record. None of Womack, Sheridan, Warren or Witt came in with a proven OC or DC track record. Sheridan, Womack Warren & Witt we’re all supposedly “hot young coaches” Womack turned out a good one. I feel like Witt can still be a good one, but he’s not solely in charge of defense to be held fully accountable. I feel Warren was asked to leave in a year (bc on defense Allen has more conviction) and Sheridan was way over his head.

Bell had a prior track record, but even though I blame UMass on bad career choice by a young coach wanting a HC job, he didn’t come in with DeBoer credentials. And he’s off to a “better than Sheridan” start, but that is a low bar.

Wanting to be fair, how much of that is IU AD giving Allen a limited salary pool to work with? The money give back for Sheridan NEVER s well with me, sent a possibility chilling message to Allen: you have to chip away your salary for every bad coach you want to replace. I could be wrong, but that’s how it looked.

I was calling for Hiller’s job easily 2 seasons ago, maybe 3. He started with Allen. After 3 seasons the OL was never great and the OL recruits never off the charts or developing well either. Everyone pointed out “Where is the development?” But yet Hiller is up to $500K and no one could figure out how the day after PU we didn’t have a “We thank Coaches Sheridan and Hiller for their service” it was just Sheridan. I thought a new OC should have a say in picking his staff, but at least his OL coach?

I have been critical of our third “coordinator” too -Special teams. The prior one, our LB coach who Allen made just STC to give him “coordinator experience” was horrible in that role for 2 seasons. Thankfully DeBoer took him with him to Fresno St. His replacement, Coach T, who was bumped up to staff originally from a grad assistant, is a rah rah guy, but once again, this season we’ve seen two kicks out of bounds in 2 critical moments late in games, no real return game and vs Cinci we saw a roughing the kicker in 4th quarter when we had them 4th & 15, and Delp (Why is he our return guy?) fair catch inside the 5 also late in 4th quarter. Our special teams has good actual specialists (I credit Allen for that recruiting focus) but really bad execution and no real success for last 2-3 years under current coach T. Special Teams is a big part of football!

Game Management- I’ve tried to overlook some past criticisms, but I can’t say I have ever felt like we are a well oiled machine in game decision making or clock/time out management under Allen. Yesterday a play to epitomize that, we are trying to speed a wildcat play on 4th & 1, but no one appeared to tell McCully, who had to rush onto the field to be the actual wildcat! Then Cinci calls a timeout, alters it’s D, and then we come out of a timeout with a procedure call, move back 5 yards and have to punt! That kind of keystone cops may fall on Bell the OC, or “HC of the offense” per Allen, but it’s a TEAM thing in the end that has to fall on the HC.

Player development: We have seen some players on defense improve: this year I think of DE’s Bryant & Robbins, as well as LB’s Casey and Jones (playing quite well). Pierre too in backfield.

But it kills me to see what’s happening with Mullen this year. That guy brings joy to the team (watch how much he smiles doing fight song in locker room after a win.). He was a FR all American and he seems to be regressing this year, and his face shows it on the sideline. JWill looked more lost yesterday too. Those two guys actually can play I believe, but somehow things are not clicking for them and DB’s.

And what about other big recent top recruits? Haven’t we been stacking classes? Where are they now?

The positives for Allen: I do believe the team has grit and fight, which is a huge intangible. I feel Allen is a likeable guy who breeds loyalty, and the team represents itself and IU well.

But as much as this pains me to say, I now wonder if DC is the best spot on the bus for Allen as a coach? Imagine DeBoer as HC and Allen as his DC. I think with a highly productive offense, last year’s D and even this year’s D would have fared much better.

As a defensive player, when you see the ineptitude of Sheridan, Hiller and and offense that can’t function with ease, it starts to hurt your own confidence, enthusiasm & mental game. They can’t carry them forever, and Cinci game, sadly felt the most like last year. A year where THAT crap 2-10 team held MSU to 15 pts but lost 15-10 (with a pick 6 from the offense). They also had Cinci on the ropes but fumbled on the one, threw two bad picks, and gave up a KO return for a TD right after we scored to go up.. It breaks the spirit of the proud D who has made lots of big stops along the way.

I love IUFB. and have so wanted Allen to succeed. But I said it after last season, by sticking with Hiller, he was risking his job and fan trust, and sure enough it is now happening with me. I don’t want IU to be a laughing stock team and like we see now at Kansas (and everywhere DeBoer goes) programs can be turned around, “even at IU.” But it takes excellence, which I think Allen has the potential for as a DC, but not sure he has shown the ability to surround himself and lead a staff to be able to take IU to a higher place in B10 or beyond.

I have officially pulled the band aid and blinders off. It saddens me but it’s only through truth and accountability that we can we deal with the issues head on.

Here is to IU finding its true north ahead. May Coach Allen find a way to make the changes he needs to make it. Or the AD to find the guts and money to make a change and get a true proven commodity (see UK hire of Stoops and results there now)
Let’s Go IU.

You're entitled to your opinion. My opinion is that your post, and particularly the timing of it, is kind of effed up.

It is September 25. We are 3-1. Two of our three wins were against quality teams. Our first loss, the only loss, was to a team that returned a lot of talent from its College Football Playoff season and never loses at home.

I don't disagree that some aspects of our play have been concerning. I discussed them in a thread I started. But we have two new coordinators and many new players. Some hiccups, especially early in the season, were inevitable.

Maybe you're right. Maybe Allen isn't the guy for the job. But to make that suggestion in September, with a big game coming up at Nebraska and bowl eligibility still very much in play, strikes me as unfair and inappropriate. Again, just my opinion.

 

[IndyIUFan66]

You're entitled to your opinion. My opinion is that your post, and particularly the timing of it, is kind of effed up.

It is September 25. We are 3-1. Two of our three wins were against quality teams. Our first loss, the only loss, was to a team that returned a lot of talent from its College Football Playoff season and never loses at home.

I don't disagree that some aspects of our play have been concerning. I discussed them in a thread I started. But we have two new coordinators and many new players. Some hiccups, especially early in the season, were inevitable.

Maybe you're right. Maybe Allen isn't the guy for the job. But to make that suggestion in September, with a big game coming up at Nebraska and bowl eligibility still very much in play, strikes me as unfair and inappropriate. Again, just my opinion.

I get that and could theoretically have held my tongue. I think my desire to see Allen be successful is well documented. But just as Nebraska pulled the plug on Frost, it “can” happen in major college FB if a program is not going well or in wrong direction.

I don’t feel I said need to do that to Allen now, but like Frost, I could see that happening to Hiller now in order to help Allen & Bell.

And for discussion, just like your saying you think “hold negative comments to end of season” - I felt like I wanted to share that at some point we have to call a spade a spade and acknowledge some of the problems we’ve now seen for last 3-4 years, and acknowledge it (OL) may be a problem that needs a new solution now.

I know people trash the AD’s as not supporting IU FB enough. But other than not having a much bigger assistant salary budget, I don’t think the FB team has been left penniless. (See new locker room, strength coaches, football center, and yes even new assistants (believe WR & RB coaches both $500K plus.).

At what point would any program demand accountability and ask questions? The OL woes are so very real, and Allen chose not to replace Hiller and is not an offensive guru himself. But can he not see a problem where one exists?

I want IU to right the ship and would love for Allen to be at the helm to do so. I think we can still go bowling this year. But we can’t have “hope it improves” as a wishful goal. Like to see actionable items and a plan. Wouldn’t you?

 

[iujknut]

This is a tough post for me to write about a man I like and thought was the right hybrid of Heps passion/love of IU, and Mallory’s toughness.

But six year’s in, after yesterday’s beat down at Cinci, I have to take a new, hard look at what I’m afraid I’ve felt might be the case but was hoping would change.

Being totally honest now, without letting my “Hiller loyalty gene” affect my assessment of the results, for the first time I am now concerned Allen is not the right person for the job to take IU to another level.

While heart, intensity and optimism do go a long way. And he has seemingly recruited better than any recent IU coaches. (I now add seemingly bc we don’t play many freshman and few of the good ones have developed into studs after a few years, so player development seems to be very stifled.)

Life as a P5 HC is not easy and at a program like IU and the margin for error is thinner.

Issue #1: Your staff. If you are a first time HC in B10 East, a confident leader wants the “smartest people he can get” and is willing to have a staff full of future HC’s in the making. Unfortunately Allen either made some insecure picks, is not a great assessor of talent or was limited by salary budget to hire better staff. Then throw in hesitancy to make changes quicker if not having excellent results, in some cases anyway, and he finds himself in this situation in year six!

The only home run hire, that at the time was a break the record $850K salary hire, was DeBoer, who had an absolute proven track record. None of Womack, Sheridan, Warren or Witt came in with a proven OC or DC track record. Sheridan, Womack Warren & Witt we’re all supposedly “hot young coaches” Womack turned out a good one. I feel like Witt can still be a good one, but he’s not solely in charge of defense to be held fully accountable. I feel Warren was asked to leave in a year (bc on defense Allen has more conviction) and Sheridan was way over his head.

Bell had a prior track record, but even though I blame UMass on bad career choice by a young coach wanting a HC job, he didn’t come in with DeBoer credentials. And he’s off to a “better than Sheridan” start, but that is a low bar.

Wanting to be fair, how much of that is IU AD giving Allen a limited salary pool to work with? The money give back for Sheridan NEVER s well with me, sent a possibility chilling message to Allen: you have to chip away your salary for every bad coach you want to replace. I could be wrong, but that’s how it looked.

I was calling for Hiller’s job easily 2 seasons ago, maybe 3. He started with Allen. After 3 seasons the OL was never great and the OL recruits never off the charts or developing well either. Everyone pointed out “Where is the development?” But yet Hiller is up to $500K and no one could figure out how the day after PU we didn’t have a “We thank Coaches Sheridan and Hiller for their service” it was just Sheridan. I thought a new OC should have a say in picking his staff, but at least his OL coach?

I have been critical of our third “coordinator” too -Special teams. The prior one, our LB coach who Allen made just STC to give him “coordinator experience” was horrible in that role for 2 seasons. Thankfully DeBoer took him with him to Fresno St. His replacement, Coach T, who was bumped up to staff originally from a grad assistant, is a rah rah guy, but once again, this season we’ve seen two kicks out of bounds in 2 critical moments late in games, no real return game and vs Cinci we saw a roughing the kicker in 4th quarter when we had them 4th & 15, and Delp (Why is he our return guy?) fair catch inside the 5 also late in 4th quarter. Our special teams has good actual specialists (I credit Allen for that recruiting focus) but really bad execution and no real success for last 2-3 years under current coach T. Special Teams is a big part of football!

Game Management- I’ve tried to overlook some past criticisms, but I can’t say I have ever felt like we are a well oiled machine in game decision making or clock/time out management under Allen. Yesterday a play to epitomize that, we are trying to speed a wildcat play on 4th & 1, but no one appeared to tell McCully, who had to rush onto the field to be the actual wildcat! Then Cinci calls a timeout, alters it’s D, and then we come out of a timeout with a procedure call, move back 5 yards and have to punt! That kind of keystone cops may fall on Bell the OC, or “HC of the offense” per Allen, but it’s a TEAM thing in the end that has to fall on the HC.

Player development: We have seen some players on defense improve: this year I think of DE’s Bryant & Robbins, as well as LB’s Casey and Jones (playing quite well). Pierre too in backfield.

But it kills me to see what’s happening with Mullen this year. That guy brings joy to the team (watch how much he smiles doing fight song in locker room after a win.). He was a FR all American and he seems to be regressing this year, and his face shows it on the sideline. JWill looked more lost yesterday too. Those two guys actually can play I believe, but somehow things are not clicking for them and DB’s.

And what about other big recent top recruits? Haven’t we been stacking classes? Where are they now?

The positives for Allen: I do believe the team has grit and fight, which is a huge intangible. I feel Allen is a likeable guy who breeds loyalty, and the team represents itself and IU well.

But as much as this pains me to say, I now wonder if DC is the best spot on the bus for Allen as a coach? Imagine DeBoer as HC and Allen as his DC. I think with a highly productive offense, last year’s D and even this year’s D would have fared much better.

As a defensive player, when you see the ineptitude of Sheridan, Hiller and and offense that can’t function with ease, it starts to hurt your own confidence, enthusiasm & mental game. They can’t carry them forever, and Cinci game, sadly felt the most like last year. A year where THAT crap 2-10 team held MSU to 15 pts but lost 15-10 (with a pick 6 from the offense). They also had Cinci on the ropes but fumbled on the one, threw two bad picks, and gave up a KO return for a TD right after we scored to go up. It breaks the spirit of the proud D who has made lots of big stops along the way.

I love IUFB. and have so wanted Allen to succeed. But I said it after last season, by sticking with Hiller, he was risking his job and fan trust, and sure enough it is now happening with me. I don’t want IU to be a laughing stock team and like we see now at Kansas (and everywhere DeBoer goes) programs can be turned around, “even at IU.” But it takes excellence, which I think Allen has the potential for as a DC, but not sure he has shown the ability to surround himself and lead a staff to be able to take IU to a higher place in B10 or beyond.

I have officially pulled the band aid and blinders off. It saddens me but it’s only through truth and accountability that we can we deal with the issues head on.

Here is to IU finding its true north ahead. May Coach Allen find a way to make the changes he needs to make it. Or the AD to find the guts and money to make a change and get a true proven commodity (see UK hire of Stoops and results there now)
Let’s Go IU.

This is a terrific and very accurate post. As some back ground I would tell you that I saw my first IU football game in 1945, in their undefeated and one tie season. I believe I may be the only person alive who actually saw the IU-Northwestern tie game at Dyche stadium. In the many many years since I have been and remain a season ticket holder, basketball and football. I have seen more bad teams and bad coaches than I care to remember. The few best ones, in my opinion were Phil Dickens-although he got us on long term recruiting violations, John Pont (a wonderful guy and I got to go to the Rose Bowl), Bill Mallory-who was really a winning good hard nose coach I know everybody still loves but he did lose 21 out of his last 22 games badly and gave IU a real shot at a Rose Bowl)Cam Cameron-who I think eventually would have been a wining coach here, Terry Hoepner-he would have been the all time best here-he was that good.

But as IU fan 66 has observed-things are so so here. I think its fair to say we have a decent/so so coach.
Of all the years I have watched IU the number of times what we have ever rallied to win a game, I can count on one hand. With all the apologizing for how IU beat Illinois,Idaho and Western Kentucky-these were game IU always lost in the past. So that has to be part coaching, players stepping up and it was great to see.

The Cincinnati game however, was a perfect description of the opposite. The end of the first half debacle was coaching, pure and simple. The botched 4th and 1 wildcat followed with the multiple second quarter Cincinnati scores all falls to coaching. The 4th and 15th roughing the kicker is beyond belief. Catching a punt on your own 5 yards line late in the game is also beyond belief.

Unfortunately this is not a one year problem. The loss of the last two bowl games, blowing a big lead late in the game and failing to recognize and on side kick falls to coaching.

Indiana continues to get good fan support, the administration has taken real strides to make IU football releavant. Coaches come and go. Minnesota is clearly on the rise with their recent coaching hire. Purdue still struggles. Michigan State goes all out hiring Colorado coach, who has early success and is now faltering.

The era of Deboer-the best hire ever- and Penix has passed. I think who we have and where we are, is pretty much where we will remain. I see the quick reactions of some fans who decide after a few plays that everything is terrible-I think their observations are ridiculous. I see other fans who urge patience-well at 88 I am running out of time,sorry.

Sorry for long rant-I love IU-been varsity club consecutive donor for 60 years. Have gone to the final fours, met my wife (now 64 years married) at IU and one daughter who went there. Hoping for one last final four and maybe even another bowl game-been to several.

Thanks for reading-best wishes for good health and thoughts to all of you.

Jerry K '56

 

[vesuvius13]

Remember many of the coaches are new but the position players struggling are with the coaches that have been at IU.

I see no choice but to let Hiller go and bring in a much better OL coach. I watched the B1G games, and it struck me how much better the OLs were at most schools. Hiller has had six years to develop and improve the OL and it is still a weakness. If he had honor, he would resign and not make coach Allen fire him. We will have to wait and see how players are developing with our new coaches as it will take a couple of years. I still have questions about coach Bell but will be patient with him to get his system installed.

Our DL played much better and got some pressure on Cincinnati's QB especially as the game wore on. The only real weakness was our Corners and Safeties which was surprising to me. Coach Jones and Shelby need to explain what is different and let coach Allen change what is needed to get back to how good the players were in 2020. One thing different is the blitzers coach Allen is sending aren't coming in clean like in the past.

The game this week will tell a lot about how this season will go. Coming into the 6th week 4-1 will be a great deal and give the team some momentum to keep getting better.

 

[vesuvius13]

This is a terrific and very accurate post. As some back ground I would tell you that I saw my first IU football game in 1945, in their undefeated and one tie season. I believe I may be the only person alive who actually saw the IU-Northwestern tie game at Dyche stadium. In the many many years since I have been and remain a season ticket holder, basketball and football. I have seen more bad teams and bad coaches than I care to remember. The few best ones, in my opinion were Phil Dickens-although he got us on long term recruiting violations, John Pont (a wonderful guy and I got to go to the Rose Bowl), Bill Mallory-who was really a winning good hard nose coach I know everybody still loves but he did lose 21 out of his last 22 games badly and gave IU a real shot at a Rose Bowl)Cam Cameron-who I think eventually would have been a wining coach here, Terry Hoepner-he would have been the all time best here-he was that good.

But as IU fan 66 has observed-things are so so here. I think its fair to say we have a decent/so so coach.
Of all the years I have watched IU the number of times what we have ever rallied to win a game, I can count on one hand. With all the apologizing for how IU beat Illinois,Idaho and Western Kentucky-these were game IU always lost in the past. So that has to be part coaching, players stepping up and it was great to see.

The Cincinnati game however, was a perfect description of the opposite. The end of the first half debacle was coaching, pure and simple. The botched 4th and 1 wildcat followed with the multiple second quarter Cincinnati scores all falls to coaching. The 4th and 15th roughing the kicker is beyond belief. Catching a punt on your own 5 yards line late in the game is also beyond belief.

Unfortunately this is not a one year problem. The loss of the last two bowl games, blowing a big lead late in the game and failing to recognize and on side kick falls to coaching.

Indiana continues to get good fan support, the administration has taken real strides to make IU football releavant. Coaches come and go. Minnesota is clearly on the rise with their recent coaching hire. Purdue still struggles. Michigan State goes all out hiring Colorado coach, who has early success and is now faltering.

The era of Deboer-the best hire ever- and Penix has passed. I think who we have and where we are, is pretty much where we will remain. I see the quick reactions of some fans who decide after a few plays that everything is terrible-I think their observations are ridiculous. I see other fans who urge patience-well at 88 I am running out of time,sorry.

Sorry for long rant-I love IU-been varsity club consecutive donor for 60 years. Have gone to the final fours, met my wife (now 64 years married) at IU and one daughter who went there. Hoping for one last final four and maybe even another bowl game-been to several.

Thanks for reading-best wishes for good health and thoughts to all of you.

Jerry K '56

Jerry, what a post and I wish I could have seen that 1945 team play along with the great players on that team. As an IUFB fan you were blessed to see several very good years with the football program. Congratulations on a long marriage as I have been married for 37 years and know you have to work at it to keep a spouse for that long.

 

[IUgradman]

I don’t know why people say it is hard to recruit to Bloomington. It is a nice college town, certainly not worse than Tuscaloosa or Athens.

As for the program, the reason for the struggles of the last two seasons is an abysmal, error prone offense. The defense has been bowl worthy.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

Jerry, what a post and I wish I could have seen that 1945 team play along with the great players on that team. As an IUFB fan you were blessed to see several very good years with the football program. Congratulations on a long marriage as I have been married for 37 years and know you have to work at it to keep a spouse for that long.

What if Jerry is really only 55 years old but the program has simply mentally aged him to 88?

iU sports have a tendency to age fans well beyond their years.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

I don’t know why people say it is hard to recruit to Bloomington. It is a nice college town, certainly not worse than Tuscaloosa or Athens.

As for the program, the reason for the struggles of the last two seasons is an abysmal, error prone offense. The defense has been bowl worthy.

Not yesterday. The combo of Mullen, Williams and Monster turned in a giant turd. That pass defense won’t cut it at any level.

 

[IUgradman]

Not yesterday. The combo of Mullen, Williams and Monster turned in a giant turd. That pass defense won’t cut it at any level.

The IU offense was responsible for 17 of Cincinnati’s 45 points. Holding a team to 28 points should be enough to give the offense a chance to win the game.

 

[Hoosier Clarion]

Some things just don't add up. Suddenly this season the DB'S can't do their job. Same position coaches. Only thing changed is D leadership, Wilt and Allen. Why? On offense the QB isn't as consistent as hoped. But with a different OL Coach I'm certain the offense would be more dynamic as OC Bell is orchestrating better schemes and matchups far better than anything offered last year. The defense lost Saturdays game. Can't say precisely the offense would have won it but the best parts of the defense went stale for no reason known now to us. Tackling was somewhat better, more well caught passes by WR's. Consistency and details either not covered or forgotten were large

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

I get that and could theoretically have held my tongue. I think my desire to see Allen be successful is well documented. But just as Nebraska pulled the plug on Frost, it “can” happen in major college FB if a program is not going well or in wrong direction.

I don’t feel I said need to do that to Allen now, but like Frost, I could see that happening to Hiller now in order to help Allen & Bell.

And for discussion, just like your saying you think “hold negative comments to end of season” - I felt like I wanted to share that at some point we have to call a spade a spade and acknowledge some of the problems we’ve now seen for last 3-4 years, and acknowledge it (OL) may be a problem that needs a new solution now.

I know people trash the AD’s as not supporting IU FB enough. But other than not having a much bigger assistant salary budget, I don’t think the FB team has been left penniless. (See new locker room, strength coaches, football center, and yes even new assistants (believe WR & RB coaches both $500K plus.).

At what point would any program demand accountability and ask questions? The OL woes are so very real, and Allen chose not to replace Hiller and is not an offensive guru himself. But can he not see a problem where one exists?

I want IU to right the ship and would love for Allen to be at the helm to do so. I think we can still go bowling this year. But we can’t have “hope it improves” as a wishful goal. Like to see actionable items and a plan. Wouldn’t you?

Who is going to fix the OL mid season if we fire Hiller now? A GA?

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

Who is going to fix the OL mid season if we fire Hiller now? A GA?

Slide Carey in there as a promotion on-field assistant?

 

[DCDAVID]

Our DL played much better and got some pressure on Cincinnati's QB especially as the game wore on. The only real weakness was our Corners and Safeties which was surprising to me. Coach Jones and Shelby need to explain what is different and let coach Allen change what is needed to get back to how good the players were in 2020. One thing different is the blitzers coach Allen is sending aren't coming in clean like in the past.

I agree about the DB’s (and your other points) as I thought our DB’s would be a strength of the team.
It is crazy how wide open some of the receivers have been and in some cases the tackling has regressed to the Wilson years. The substandard OL doesn’t surprise me at all but the DB’s? Disappointing.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

Some things just don't add up. Suddenly this season the DB'S can't do their job. Same position coaches. Only thing changed is D leadership, Wilt and Allen. Why? On offense the QB isn't as consistent as hoped. But with a different OL Coach I'm certain the offense would be more dynamic as OC Bell is orchestrating better schemes and matchups far better than anything offered last year. The defense lost Saturdays game. Can't say precisely the offense would have won it but the best parts of the defense went stale for no reason known now to us. Tackling was somewhat better, more well caught passes by WR's. Consistency and details either not covered or forgotten were large

We had a transfer from Bama whiff on a wide open field tackle that the really good players make every time.
Now, you know why he transferred from Bama.

 

[hoosier roadtrips]

I agree about the DB’s (and your other points) as I thought our DB’s would be a strength of the team.
It is crazy how wide open some of the receivers have been and in some cases the tackling has regressed to the Wilson years. The substandard OL doesn’t surprise me at all but the DB’s? Disappointing.

I now have nightmares going back to the 2006 team that gave up 63 points to Minnesota and cost us a bowl bid. One receiver after another went past our defenders to have wide open passes for touchdowns. I would have thought we would have added more linemen or linebackers to blitz more, since the backs weren't covering anyone.

 

[DCDAVID]

We had a transfer from Bama whiff on a wide open field tackle that the really good players make every time.
Now, you know why he transferred from Bama.

If you are talking about Lanier he was a walk-on at Bama last year and I don’t think he played a single down for them.

 

[82hoosier]

The IU offense was responsible for 17 of Cincinnati’s 45 points. Holding a team to 28 points should be enough to give the offense a chance to win the game.

Over the four decades I have been following Indiana football I also seen the pattern where the Hoosiers come back many times in the third and fourth quarter to make the game more respectable. But that's because the games were out of reach. The silver lining in Saturday's game was that the Cincinnati did not hang 65 or 70 points on the Hoosiers.

 

[IndyIUFan66]

Slide Carey in there as a promotion on-field assistant?

I would think Carey as a former head coach could be a welcome new voice to the oline and for Bell. That being said, not sure if he would be full-time or only interim oline coach, but a change in voice is needed it seems to me.

 

[IUFANBB]

This is a tough post for me to write about a man I like and thought was the right hybrid of Heps passion/love of IU, and Mallory’s toughness.

But six year’s in, after yesterday’s beat down at Cinci, I have to take a new, hard look at what I’m afraid I’ve felt might be the case but was hoping would change.

Being totally honest now, without letting my “Hiller loyalty gene” affect my assessment of the results, for the first time I am now concerned Allen is not the right person for the job to take IU to another level.

While heart, intensity and optimism do go a long way. And he has seemingly recruited better than any recent IU coaches. (I now add seemingly bc we don’t play many freshman and few of the good ones have developed into studs after a few years, so player development seems to be very stifled.)

Life as a P5 HC is not easy and at a program like IU and the margin for error is thinner.

Issue #1: Your staff. If you are a first time HC in B10 East, a confident leader wants the “smartest people he can get” and is willing to have a staff full of future HC’s in the making. Unfortunately Allen either made some insecure picks, is not a great assessor of talent or was limited by salary budget to hire better staff. Then throw in hesitancy to make changes quicker if not having excellent results, in some cases anyway, and he finds himself in this situation in year six!

The only home run hire, that at the time was a break the record $850K salary hire, was DeBoer, who had an absolute proven track record. None of Womack, Sheridan, Warren or Witt came in with a proven OC or DC track record. Sheridan, Womack Warren & Witt we’re all supposedly “hot young coaches” Womack turned out a good one. I feel like Witt can still be a good one, but he’s not solely in charge of defense to be held fully accountable. I feel Warren was asked to leave in a year (bc on defense Allen has more conviction) and Sheridan was way over his head.

Bell had a prior track record, but even though I blame UMass on bad career choice by a young coach wanting a HC job, he didn’t come in with DeBoer credentials. And he’s off to a “better than Sheridan” start, but that is a low bar.

Wanting to be fair, how much of that is IU AD giving Allen a limited salary pool to work with? The money give back for Sheridan NEVER s well with me, sent a possibility chilling message to Allen: you have to chip away your salary for every bad coach you want to replace. I could be wrong, but that’s how it looked.

I was calling for Hiller’s job easily 2 seasons ago, maybe 3. He started with Allen. After 3 seasons the OL was never great and the OL recruits never off the charts or developing well either. Everyone pointed out “Where is the development?” But yet Hiller is up to $500K and no one could figure out how the day after PU we didn’t have a “We thank Coaches Sheridan and Hiller for their service” it was just Sheridan. I thought a new OC should have a say in picking his staff, but at least his OL coach?

I have been critical of our third “coordinator” too -Special teams. The prior one, our LB coach who Allen made just STC to give him “coordinator experience” was horrible in that role for 2 seasons. Thankfully DeBoer took him with him to Fresno St. His replacement, Coach T, who was bumped up to staff originally from a grad assistant, is a rah rah guy, but once again, this season we’ve seen two kicks out of bounds in 2 critical moments late in games, no real return game and vs Cinci we saw a roughing the kicker in 4th quarter when we had them 4th & 15, and Delp (Why is he our return guy?) fair catch inside the 5 also late in 4th quarter. Our special teams has good actual specialists (I credit Allen for that recruiting focus) but really bad execution and no real success for last 2-3 years under current coach T. Special Teams is a big part of football!

Game Management- I’ve tried to overlook some past criticisms, but I can’t say I have ever felt like we are a well oiled machine in game decision making or clock/time out management under Allen. Yesterday a play to epitomize that, we are trying to speed a wildcat play on 4th & 1, but no one appeared to tell McCully, who had to rush onto the field to be the actual wildcat! Then Cinci calls a timeout, alters it’s D, and then we come out of a timeout with a procedure call, move back 5 yards and have to punt! That kind of keystone cops may fall on Bell the OC, or “HC of the offense” per Allen, but it’s a TEAM thing in the end that has to fall on the HC.

Player development: We have seen some players on defense improve: this year I think of DE’s Bryant & Robbins, as well as LB’s Casey and Jones (playing quite well). Pierre too in backfield.

But it kills me to see what’s happening with Mullen this year. That guy brings joy to the team (watch how much he smiles doing fight song in locker room after a win.). He was a FR all American and he seems to be regressing this year, and his face shows it on the sideline. JWill looked more lost yesterday too. Those two guys actually can play I believe, but somehow things are not clicking for them and DB’s.

And what about other big recent top recruits? Haven’t we been stacking classes? Where are they now?

The positives for Allen: I do believe the team has grit and fight, which is a huge intangible. I feel Allen is a likeable guy who breeds loyalty, and the team represents itself and IU well.

But as much as this pains me to say, I now wonder if DC is the best spot on the bus for Allen as a coach? Imagine DeBoer as HC and Allen as his DC. I think with a highly productive offense, last year’s D and even this year’s D would have fared much better.

As a defensive player, when you see the ineptitude of Sheridan, Hiller and and offense that can’t function with ease, it starts to hurt your own confidence, enthusiasm & mental game. They can’t carry them forever, and Cinci game, sadly felt the most like last year. A year where THAT crap 2-10 team held MSU to 15 pts but lost 15-10 (with a pick 6 from the offense). They also had Cinci on the ropes but fumbled on the one, threw two bad picks, and gave up a KO return for a TD right after we scored to go up.. It breaks the spirit of the proud D who has made lots of big stops along the way.

I love IUFB. and have so wanted Allen to succeed. But I said it after last season, by sticking with Hiller, he was risking his job and fan trust, and sure enough it is now happening with me. I don’t want IU to be a laughing stock team and like we see now at Kansas (and everywhere DeBoer goes) programs can be turned around, “even at IU.” But it takes excellence, which I think Allen has the potential for as a DC, but not sure he has shown the ability to surround himself and lead a staff to be able to take IU to a higher place in B10 or beyond.

I have officially pulled the band aid and blinders off. It saddens me but it’s only through truth and accountability that we can we deal with the issues head on.

Here is to IU finding its true north ahead. May Coach Allen find a way to make the changes he needs to make it. Or the AD to find the guts and money to make a change and get a true proven commodity (see UK hire of Stoops and results there now)
Let’s Go IU.

Totally appreciate the post, as I had the same thoughts running through my head on Saturday. But here is the thing, this is not basketball. We don't hire the best of the bunch when it come to IU Football. Also, I think one of the main issues for the last 25 years has been the IU Head Coaching turnover. Now IU is in a tough spot. You have invested 6 years in CTA; some things are better & some things have digressed. Who are we going to hire with a pedigree to start over & push us forward in a speedy timeframe? Create another new culture? We are still 3-1 & have a better chance vs. the schedule then I imagined in August. We are 50-50 to win 3 more games & make a bowl.

 

[walkerman]

This is a terrific and very accurate post. As some back ground I would tell you that I saw my first IU football game in 1945, in their undefeated and one tie season. I believe I may be the only person alive who actually saw the IU-Northwestern tie game at Dyche stadium. In the many many years since I have been and remain a season ticket holder, basketball and football. I have seen more bad teams and bad coaches than I care to remember. The few best ones, in my opinion were Phil Dickens-although he got us on long term recruiting violations, John Pont (a wonderful guy and I got to go to the Rose Bowl), Bill Mallory-who was really a winning good hard nose coach I know everybody still loves but he did lose 21 out of his last 22 games badly and gave IU a real shot at a Rose Bowl)Cam Cameron-who I think eventually would have been a wining coach here, Terry Hoepner-he would have been the all time best here-he was that good.

But as IU fan 66 has observed-things are so so here. I think its fair to say we have a decent/so so coach.
Of all the years I have watched IU the number of times what we have ever rallied to win a game, I can count on one hand. With all the apologizing for how IU beat Illinois,Idaho and Western Kentucky-these were game IU always lost in the past. So that has to be part coaching, players stepping up and it was great to see.

The Cincinnati game however, was a perfect description of the opposite. The end of the first half debacle was coaching, pure and simple. The botched 4th and 1 wildcat followed with the multiple second quarter Cincinnati scores all falls to coaching. The 4th and 15th roughing the kicker is beyond belief. Catching a punt on your own 5 yards line late in the game is also beyond belief.

Unfortunately this is not a one year problem. The loss of the last two bowl games, blowing a big lead late in the game and failing to recognize and on side kick falls to coaching.

Indiana continues to get good fan support, the administration has taken real strides to make IU football releavant. Coaches come and go. Minnesota is clearly on the rise with their recent coaching hire. Purdue still struggles. Michigan State goes all out hiring Colorado coach, who has early success and is now faltering.

The era of Deboer-the best hire ever- and Penix has passed. I think who we have and where we are, is pretty much where we will remain. I see the quick reactions of some fans who decide after a few plays that everything is terrible-I think their observations are ridiculous. I see other fans who urge patience-well at 88 I am running out of time,sorry.

Sorry for long rant-I love IU-been varsity club consecutive donor for 60 years. Have gone to the final fours, met my wife (now 64 years married) at IU and one daughter who went there. Hoping for one last final four and maybe even another bowl game-been to several.

Thanks for reading-best wishes for good health and thoughts to all of you.

Jerry K '56

To Jerry K - I was struck by your mention of the 1945 game as you and I are likely the only two on this thread who saw that game. I was an 11-year-old on a Boys Club trip. Sat in the end zone in that old stadium and had a straight on view of George Taliferro scoring the only TD of the game (7-2). Your comments brought back a lot of memories after so many years as a season ticket holder. My time at IU was broken up by the draft (and no money) but did return to finish. Two sons and 3 grandchildren with seven degrees from IU.

Also, at 88 thank you for your post .

Walkerman '59

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

Totally appreciate the post, as I had the same thoughts running through my head on Saturday. But here is the thing, this is not basketball. We don't hire the best of the bunch when it come to IU Football. Also, I think one of the main issues for the last 25 years has been the IU Head Coaching turnover. Now IU is in a tough spot. You have invested 6 years in CTA; some things are better & some things have digressed. Who are we going to hire with a pedigree to start over & push us forward in a speedy timeframe? Create another new culture? We are still 3-1 & have a better chance vs. the schedule then I imagined in August. We are 50-50 to win 3 more games & make a bowl.

We don’t hire the “best of the bunch “in B-ball either. Crean came only because the best of the bunch flat out said “no” to IU.

Woodson never coached a college game before last year.

IU basketball doesn’t have guys lining up around the block to coach here.

Anybody out there with a Billy Donovan sighting lately?

 

[IndyIUFan66]

Totally appreciate the post, as I had the same thoughts running through my head on Saturday. But here is the thing, this is not basketball. We don't hire the best of the bunch when it come to IU Football. Also, I think one of the main issues for the last 25 years has been the IU Head Coaching turnover. Now IU is in a tough spot. You have invested 6 years in CTA; some things are better & some things have digressed. Who are we going to hire with a pedigree to start over & push us forward in a speedy timeframe? Create another new culture? We are still 3-1 & have a better chance vs. the schedule then I imagined in August. We are 50-50 to win 3 more games & make a bowl.

I would say to answer your premise question would be putting bigger money into assistant coaches. Ie a top OL coach, who has consistently put guys into the league, and pay him $800K (which hopefully would be more than he is currently making somewhere else).

A new Spec Teams Coordinator only (ie no TE or husky too).

Maybe a super top DB coach (like from LSU who sends guys to league a lot) and pay him what our CB/S coaches make and he coaches all DBs. Let Witt be just DC only (Allen would still be highly involved I’m sure) and a top new LB coach, who would also coach the Bull or Husky (whatever Coach T also has) and can also recruit well too.

It would take more money to have a truly elite coaching staff who know how to get things done.

Removing LB from Witt allows him to just focus on oversight and game plan. The new STC, OL LB and DB coaches would (should) know how to develop and recruit well too. Ideally with SEC or B10 pedigree and a track record. Hopefully that would help buffer and build up Allen as HC so not “starting from scratch.”

Otherwise, if willing to pay $6M a year, you could bring in someone like Cinci coach Bicknell or Stoops at KY type of proven commodity.

Im still open and hopeful Allen can get it going, but don’t think his staff now (especially OL coach!) is top tier worthy.

 

[IUNY]

To Jerry K - I was struck by your mention of the 1945 game as you and I are likely the only two on this thread who saw that game. I was an 11-year-old on a Boys Club trip. Sat in the end zone in that old stadium and had a straight on view of George Taliferro scoring the only TD of the game (7-2). Your comments brought back a lot of memories after so many years as a season ticket holder. My time at IU was broken up by the draft (and no money) but did return to finish. Two sons and 3 grandchildren with seven degrees from IU.

Also, at 88 thank you for your post .

Walkerman '59

Two great posts, and can't imagine how cool it must have been to see that team in 1945 at the old Memorial Stadium. Always loved walking by there when it was still standing, was sad to see it go and hoped they could have somehow renovated it by redoing the concrete bleachers.

 

[hoosierfan13]

I don’t want IU to be a laughing stock team and like we see now at Kansas (and everywhere DeBoer goes) programs can be turned around, “even at IU.”

Kansas is no laughing stock anymore. They have a good coach (Leipold) who has had success at all of his stops. Won 6 national titles at UW-Whitewater. Went to Buffalo and won the MAC East twice. Kansas is 4-0 with wins at West Virginia, at Houston (by 18), and at home to Duke. They're only a 3 point home dog to Iowa State next week which is remarkable considering where that program was 2 years ago. In his first season at KU, he took a lead into the 4th quarter against Oklahoma, won at Texas, nearly won at TCU. He has performed way above expectations.

What's the difference between Leipold and Allen? Leipold has been a head coach for 14 years. He has won and knows what it takes to be successful. He knows what expectations to hold his staff/players to and what preparations he needs to do to win games. Allen is learning all of this on the job through trial and error, as prior to IU, he was never a head coach outside of the high school ranks. He walked into the job at Ben Davis just like he did at IU, where he hopped on as a coordinator to a successful team (Regional champs 1995-98), had success as a coordinator (State champs 99, 01, 02), took over as head coach in 2004, and the program fell off (6-5 in 2005), before moving on to the college ranks where he is comfortable as a DC/position coach.

Being a good coordinator does not prepare you for being a head coach. IU still can't figure this out, and for the past 20+ years with the exception of Hoeppner, we keep hiring position coaches with no experience (Wilson, Cameron, arguably Allen), or failed head coaches (Lynch, DiNardo, arguably Allen). This is why we haven't had sustained success in 2 decades.

Allen is signed through 2027, and IU is somehow 3-1 instead of 1-3 right now, so he's not going anywhere. I don't know how we figure this out. When you've been doing something for 25 years, you aren't changing how you do it. You don't go from being a players coach to a disciplinarian. You don't give up habits that you have had success with in the past. But something has to change. We have not exceeded expectations since beating Wisconsin Dec 5 2020, and the expectation is that we lose every remaining game this year. Then what?

 

[mushroomgod_1]

I get that and could theoretically have held my tongue. I think my desire to see Allen be successful is well documented. But just as Nebraska pulled the plug on Frost, it “can” happen in major college FB if a program is not going well or in wrong direction.

I don’t feel I said need to do that to Allen now, but like Frost, I could see that happening to Hiller now in order to help Allen & Bell.

And for discussion, just like your saying you think “hold negative comments to end of season” - I felt like I wanted to share that at some point we have to call a spade a spade and acknowledge some of the problems we’ve now seen for last 3-4 years, and acknowledge it (OL) may be a problem that needs a new solution now.

I know people trash the AD’s as not supporting IU FB enough. But other than not having a much bigger assistant salary budget, I don’t think the FB team has been left penniless. (See new locker room, strength coaches, football center, and yes even new assistants (believe WR & RB coaches both $500K plus.).

At what point would any program demand accountability and ask questions? The OL woes are so very real, and Allen chose not to replace Hiller and is not an offensive guru himself. But can he not see a problem where one exists?

I want IU to right the ship and would love for Allen to be at the helm to do so. I think we can still go bowling this year. But we can’t have “hope it improves” as a wishful goal. Like to see actionable items and a plan. Wouldn’t you?

No need to be apologetic. Your original post was a good one. And it's hardly premature to be commenting about CTA 6 years + four games in.

I agree that CTA has a couple of excellent coaching characteristics. Heart, intensity and optimism means that the team is generally resilient. You can generally count on the team to attempt to play out of the big holes it tends to put itself in. And I think we've done pretty well in nail biters. I also think he's a good recruiter. And being an Indiana Guy is huge for our program. I think that without the final factor he's a below average BT coach, for the reasons you discuss. A Michigan football blog had him as the 11th best BT coach, and that's not far off. For a team not named Indiana, would you take him over Ferentz, Harbaugh, Day, Chryst, Fleck, Fitz, Franklin, Bielema or Brohm? That's 9. And imo he rates below Schiano. Mel Tucker and Locksley? Not sure about those guys. And Frost obviously was terrible.

Look at it this way. He's 16-28 in 6+ seasons at IU. We are, perhaps, 3-15 against OSU, UM, and PSU. Take those away and he's 13-13. Average. Which isn't bad for IU. So.....we need to continue to strive for mediocrity so we can keep CTA. Because there's more potential downward than upward once we make the change.

 

[jacksback]

Kansas is no laughing stock anymore. They have a good coach (Leipold) who has had success at all of his stops. Won 6 national titles at UW-Whitewater. Went to Buffalo and won the MAC East twice. Kansas is 4-0 with wins at West Virginia, at Houston (by 18), and at home to Duke. They're only a 3 point home dog to Iowa State next week which is remarkable considering where that program was 2 years ago. In his first season at KU, he took a lead into the 4th quarter against Oklahoma, won at Texas, nearly won at TCU. He has performed way above expectations.

What's the difference between Leipold and Allen? Leipold has been a head coach for 14 years. He has won and knows what it takes to be successful. He knows what expectations to hold his staff/players to and what preparations he needs to do to win games. Allen is learning all of this on the job through trial and error, as prior to IU, he was never a head coach outside of the high school ranks. He walked into the job at Ben Davis just like he did at IU, where he hopped on as a coordinator to a successful team (Regional champs 1995-98), had success as a coordinator (State champs 99, 01, 02), took over as head coach in 2004, and the program fell off (6-5 in 2005), before moving on to the college ranks where he is comfortable as a DC/position coach.

Being a good coordinator does not prepare you for being a head coach. IU still can't figure this out, and for the past 20+ years with the exception of Hoeppner, we keep hiring position coaches with no experience (Wilson, Cameron, arguably Allen), or failed head coaches (Lynch, DiNardo, arguably Allen). This is why we haven't had sustained success in 2 decades.

Allen is signed through 2027, and IU is somehow 3-1 instead of 1-3 right now, so he's not going anywhere. I don't know how we figure this out. When you've been doing something for 25 years, you aren't changing how you do it. You don't go from being a players coach to a disciplinarian. You don't give up habits that you have had success with in the past. But something has to change. We have not exceeded expectations since beating Wisconsin Dec 5 2020, and the expectation is that we lose every remaining game this year. Then what?

You make very good points. Leipold was a proven winner at every level he coached. Winners just win. Allen on the other hand has never won big at any level going all the way back to his days at Ben Davis. Some guys eventually learn how to win and some never do. Let's hope Allen figures it out but my bet is that if he hasn't figured it out by now, he never will.

 

[Bligedy]

If you are talking about Lanier he was a walk-on at Bama last year and I don’t think he played a single down for them.

And never would have.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

You make very good points. Leipold was a proven winner at every level he coached. Winners just win. Allen on the other hand has never won big at any level going all the way back to his days at Ben Davis. Some guys eventually learn how to win and some never do. Let's hope Allen figures it out but my bet is that if he hasn't figured it out by now, he never will.

The problem does’t exist with the coaches themselves. It’s our history of athletic directors. And, IU has deliberately chosen to hire ADs that are part of IU’s little family. You spend your entire career insulated in IU’s athletic
group, all you know is the mom and pop shop environment. These are the people driving the short bus.
You fire a coach and hire his replacement the same day without so much as any kind of search? Mom and pop maneuver. You hire an ex-player who has never coached college basketball and then hire two guys to “help him navigate” the college landscape? Mom and pop.
Fans act shocked that we resemble a G5 operation? When your leaders are running the show the only way they know how, like a G5 program, you get what you get.
Hell, I don’t know if a G5 school would even do those things?

 

[alanh13]

Kansas is no laughing stock anymore. They have a good coach (Leipold) who has had success at all of his stops. Won 6 national titles at UW-Whitewater. Went to Buffalo and won the MAC East twice. Kansas is 4-0 with wins at West Virginia, at Houston (by 18), and at home to Duke. They're only a 3 point home dog to Iowa State next week which is remarkable considering where that program was 2 years ago. In his first season at KU, he took a lead into the 4th quarter against Oklahoma, won at Texas, nearly won at TCU. He has performed way above expectations.

What's the difference between Leipold and Allen? Leipold has been a head coach for 14 years. He has won and knows what it takes to be successful. He knows what expectations to hold his staff/players to and what preparations he needs to do to win games. Allen is learning all of this on the job through trial and error, as prior to IU, he was never a head coach outside of the high school ranks. He walked into the job at Ben Davis just like he did at IU, where he hopped on as a coordinator to a successful team (Regional champs 1995-98), had success as a coordinator (State champs 99, 01, 02), took over as head coach in 2004, and the program fell off (6-5 in 2005), before moving on to the college ranks where he is comfortable as a DC/position coach.

Being a good coordinator does not prepare you for being a head coach. IU still can't figure this out, and for the past 20+ years with the exception of Hoeppner, we keep hiring position coaches with no experience (Wilson, Cameron, arguably Allen), or failed head coaches (Lynch, DiNardo, arguably Allen). This is why we haven't had sustained success in 2 decades.

Allen is signed through 2027, and IU is somehow 3-1 instead of 1-3 right now, so he's not going anywhere. I don't know how we figure this out. When you've been doing something for 25 years, you aren't changing how you do it. You don't go from being a players coach to a disciplinarian. You don't give up habits that you have had success with in the past. But something has to change. We have not exceeded expectations since beating Wisconsin Dec 5 2020, and the expectation is that we lose every remaining game this year. Then what?

Tom Allen is just a walking catch phrase and no ability to coach X’s and O’s. IU could get 25 5-star recruits and still fail under Allen. Bull and Husky positions are just gimmick positions that most successful teams don’t have.

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

Tom Allen is just a walking catch phrase and no ability to coach X’s and O’s. IU could get 25 5-star recruits and still fail under Allen. Bull and Husky positions are just gimmick positions that most successful teams don’t have.

oooohhh.....you're such a smart cookie LOL

THis isn't 1937, Alan. Bull and Husky positions are all over the place (by different names). Stay in your lane.

 

[IUgradman]

Kansas is no laughing stock anymore. They have a good coach (Leipold) who has had success at all of his stops. Won 6 national titles at UW-Whitewater. Went to Buffalo and won the MAC East twice. Kansas is 4-0 with wins at West Virginia, at Houston (by 18), and at home to Duke. They're only a 3 point home dog to Iowa State next week which is remarkable considering where that program was 2 years ago. In his first season at KU, he took a lead into the 4th quarter against Oklahoma, won at Texas, nearly won at TCU. He has performed way above expectations.

What's the difference between Leipold and Allen? Leipold has been a head coach for 14 years. He has won and knows what it takes to be successful. He knows what expectations to hold his staff/players to and what preparations he needs to do to win games. Allen is learning all of this on the job through trial and error, as prior to IU, he was never a head coach outside of the high school ranks. He walked into the job at Ben Davis just like he did at IU, where he hopped on as a coordinator to a successful team (Regional champs 1995-98), had success as a coordinator (State champs 99, 01, 02), took over as head coach in 2004, and the program fell off (6-5 in 2005), before moving on to the college ranks where he is comfortable as a DC/position coach.

Being a good coordinator does not prepare you for being a head coach. IU still can't figure this out, and for the past 20+ years with the exception of Hoeppner, we keep hiring position coaches with no experience (Wilson, Cameron, arguably Allen), or failed head coaches (Lynch, DiNardo, arguably Allen). This is why we haven't had sustained success in 2 decades.

Allen is signed through 2027, and IU is somehow 3-1 instead of 1-3 right now, so he's not going anywhere. I don't know how we figure this out. When you've been doing something for 25 years, you aren't changing how you do it. You don't go from being a players coach to a disciplinarian. You don't give up habits that you have had success with in the past. But something has to change. We have not exceeded expectations since beating Wisconsin Dec 5 2020, and the expectation is that we lose every remaining game this year. Then what?

When the time comes, IU has to hire a proven coach who has won at the lower level. They did it with Hoeppmer and he was well on his way to succeeding here. The last three hires were a retread and two assistants. No wonder the program has been mediocre.

 

[Champs1976]

Allen says accountability is a big part of LEO, but it's hard to see where thats demonstrated. I too struggled a bit with the severance to Sheridan being paid out of Allen's salary, but on the other hand if you wanted Allen to be more careful with his hires and "Accountable" wouldn't that have been the way to do it? Short of canning him, which really isn't an option due to the buyout, forcing him to eat Sheridan's salary was a good way to drive home the point. Unfortunately it probably prevented Allen from pulling the trigger on Hiller, if he wanted to, to the detriment of the program.

I want to see Allen succeed. His heart is clearly in the right spot. I think he does positively influence the lives of the young men who come to IU. But I think he has an expectations problem (doesn't set them high enough for individual performance of players and coaches) and an accountability problem (doesn't hold players or coaches accountable for mistakes). In general Allen is a really nice guy, unfortunately there are people who don't maximize performance when leadership is too nice. A lot of players need to be coached "hard" meaning striving for perfection and then reaching excellence. Not sure anyone in this program is striving for perfection.