Trump 2024!
- Thread starter mcmurtry66
- Start date
Vance deferred to the SDNY, who secured Cohen’s plea. The feds did not pursue Cohen’s client, Trump. In any event, the underlying crime is an element of the Trump felony and that element was never proved. Bragg decided to prosecute Trump before he was elected. Bragg didn’t follow the evidence, he followed Trump looking for evidence. He had a weak misdemeanor at most and a sympathetic Judge boosted the case to a felony without requiring proof of the indispensable underlying crime. And the judge prohibited defense evidence about whether there was any underlying crime.
Hunter? He is standing trial because his friends in high places tried to slip an unprecedented and lenient plea deal past a judge. Once that blew up, there was no way he could get an ordinary deal. FWIW, I’m tired of heating about Hunter, he doesn’t matter.
It's really unbecoming for a trained lawyer to continue to lie about this. The "underlying crime" was not an element of the felony. The coverup of the crime was an element of the felony. You know damn well why that's an important distinction, and the refusal to acknowledge this distinction is why we have so many non-lawyers walking around pretending they understand why this was a corruption of the justice system.
Right. Covering up a skummy transaction is not a violation. covering up behavior that some jurors might believe is a crime is not a violation. Covering up facts that Trump might think is a crime is not a violation. We had one crime and one trial. The second crime that was the object of the coverup must be established, I think at the time of indictment. Many others agree with me.
Here are Trump's own words explaining his latest promises on healthcare:
"I’m not running to terminate the ACA as crooked Joe Biden says all over the place,” Trump said in a video posted to Truth Social on Thursday, echoing a message he posted last month. “We’re going to make the ACA much better than it is right now and much less expensive for you.”
https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/12/politics/obamacare-trump-administration/index.html
You say you support Trump because you like his policies. So, please tell us: what is Trump's specific proposal/plan for healthcare?
(Last time he ran, he kept saying he was going to release his plan "soon," but he never did.)
healthcare is so far down the list of issues i and anyone i've heard from care about.
houses, cars, groceries, insurance, gas, the border, dei and woke bullshit.
OK, that's fine. Then tell us what specific proposals Trump is making regarding:
-- houses and home prices/rents
-- cars
-- groceries
-- insurance
-- gas and diesel fuel
-- the border
-- dei and
-- woke bullshit.
Good luck finding specific proposals from Trump.
why can't you listen? why can't you learn? the border biden reversed title 42, asylum agreements and remain in mexico to name a few. go back ot the old trump policies. gas drill baby drill. not have 200 actions attacking gas and oil along with the rhetoric that curbs investments. inflation stop spending with free cheese. don't overheat the economy. let the fed handle it. he's not woke.
basically do nothing or the opposite of everything biden did that has been a total failure.
some times standing pat and not doing anything is the best course. why do you always want the government to fix your life? i want hte gov to get out of the way.
You guys are reciting the government position which has substantial due process issues. You guys define “crime” as facts or circumstances never subjected to the test of investigation, charge, or prosecution.
LOL. I agree the case has due process issues, but you embarrass yourself by calling it "the government position." It's the law, as it stands, according to currently valid precedent.
let's refresh your memory. biden got into office and had control of the house and senate. police forces were defunded, bail projects implemented, he promised to end fossil fuels, reversed title 42, remain in mexico, asylum agreements, border funding, and extended unemployment, provided stimulus checks, converted child tax crdits to monthly checks, stayed foreclosures, and evictions, and here we are today. thank god he finally lost the house and thank god for manchin/sinema.
so tell me. what is he going to do this go around if he gets control. sidle up with the progressives again adn wreck shit?
wake up
I agree. Arguing the last case isn’t our trade craft, arguing the next case is. The law as applied has substantial due process problems.
Yes, but I don't know where to find it again. It wasn't SCOTUS precedent. It was the 7th circuit. Predicate crimes do not need to be proven for the jury to return guilty on the charged superseding crime.
Here's a good website tracking through end of February 2024 data from St. Louis Federal Reserve and comparing the last 5 presidents
8 charts that explain the Biden, Trump economies
Get ready: In the 2024 presidential race, the candidates will talk about the economy. A lot. We know because it’s alread
www.politifact.com
I think Trump and Biden were lambasted by Covid 1 year a piece. Hard for me to sit back and criticize Trump during the pandemic. Supply Chain problems were an issue for nearly 3 years. Both the Fed and the Treasure department predicted transitory inflation and both slow to react when it was abundantly clear that the supply chain was not to capacity, etc. The infrastructue of a free market economy was shredded.
the Richardson case specifically refers to that situation and says you don't have to have unanmity. Not sure about not having proof. All the case law from across the country says you do not have to have a unanimous jury--I posted the Wisconsin Supreme Court who did the survey of that.
The biggest issue I have with Biden is that it was progressive policy not pandemic response. The inflation rate in 2022 after all of the stimulus from Biden jumped 8 percent from the year before and was the highest since 81. Biden was warned but bc he wanted to create the largest social safety net and be transformative he went ahead. Thankfully he lost control shortly thereafter.Here's a good website tracking through end of February 2024 data from St. Louis Federal Reserve and comparing the last 5 presidents
8 charts that explain the Biden, Trump economies
Get ready: In the 2024 presidential race, the candidates will talk about the economy. A lot. We know because it’s alread
I think Trump and Biden were lambasted by Covid 1 year a piece. Hard for me to sit back and criticize Trump during the pandemic. Supply Chain problems were an issue for nearly 3 years. Both the Fed and the Treasure department predicted transitory inflation and both slow to react when it was abundantly clear that the supply chain was not to capacity, etc. The infrastructue of a free market economy was shredded.
So where will we be if he gets control again and goes back to the progressive cradle to grave bene wishlist.
And no he isn’t solely responsible. And Trump contributed. So happy to see his trump name on checks. But damn
Wtf. I mean from coaching all the way down to play. Let’s hope it was an aberration. Brazil Wed
Merchan instructed the jury about a key element of the case: the underlying crime that prosecutors allege Trump intended to commit or conceal by falsifying business records. The law — which elevates Trump’s charges from misdemeanors to felonies — is a New York state election law that bars people from promoting the election of someone through “unlawful means.” Merchan said prosecutors have identified three alleged unlawful means:
- Violations of the Federal Election Campaign Act
- The falsification of other business records
- Violations of tax laws
BEN FEUERHERD
05/29/2024, 10:56AM ET
But he was never tried on those charges, so how can the jury determine his guilt or innocence? What were the violations of campaign act? What other business records were falsified? What tax laws were violated?Merchan instructed the jury about a key element of the case: the underlying crime that prosecutors allege Trump intended to commit or conceal by falsifying business records. The law — which elevates Trump’s charges from misdemeanors to felonies — is a New York state election law that bars people from promoting the election of someone through “unlawful means.” Merchan said prosecutors have identified three alleged unlawful means:
- Violations of the Federal Election Campaign Act
- The falsification of other business records
- Violations of tax laws
BEN FEUERHERD
05/29/2024, 10:56AM ET
Weren't these jury instructions read after closing arguments had taken place? Did Trump have a chance to defend himself of these charges?
I've read the jury didn't have to all agree on these charges. They could have picked 1 or 2 or 3 of them and they all didn't have to agree which ones?
I haven't been following that closely. I'm guessing, from that post I just reposted, that the underlying crime was the violation of NY election law and that the thing the jury didn't have to agree upon was the "unlawful means" portion, which would bring in other statutes that might have been violated. Again, though, I could be wrong.
The jury instructions were drafted and submitted by the parties two weeks before trial. They all knew the jury instructions before trial.
OK, but were those charges addressed during the trial? I watched a lot of coverage of it and didn't seen anything about those specific charges.
In Richardson, the government proved the violations the jury was allowed to pick from. See Bryer’s knife/gun discussion in a robbery case. Here the government did not prove Trump committed any underlying crime and the judge did also not instruct that had to be found beyond a reasonable doubt.
Is “intending to commit or conceal” sufficient to support a violation? The charge is not a conspiracy. The charge requires the existence of an underlying crime. You can’t separately try the underlying crime case within the case that is presently before the court.Merchan instructed the jury about a key element of the case: the underlying crime that prosecutors allege Trump intended to commit or conceal by falsifying business records. The law — which elevates Trump’s charges from misdemeanors to felonies — is a New York state election law that bars people from promoting the election of someone through “unlawful means.” Merchan said prosecutors have identified three alleged unlawful means:
- Violations of the Federal Election Campaign Act
- The falsification of other business records
- Violations of tax laws
BEN FEUERHERD
05/29/2024, 10:56AM ET
Ran across this this morning that speaks to this very issue.
You are talkin about the underlying case in Richard. I was talking about the lack of constitutional right to have juror unanimity at the state court level...
You and Co. Hoosier need your own talk show - like a latter day Crossfire.
"Mark, you ignorant slut....." lol
Seriously, I enjoy the discussions. I usually learn something about the law, and it's not always positive.
Each of these predicates had to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt. The jury instructions, both pre and post hearing, were crystal clear.
Hahaha. Co Hoosier is way better looking than me. He would slaughter me on TV. Me? I have have the perfect looks for radio
Really? I picture you as a Tom Cruise-type lawyer in A Few Good Men! Hot shot - banging law clerks. Football stud.
Co. Hoosier I see as a Donald Sutherland type like the judge Isaac Parker in Bass Reeves.
Don't spoil my fantasy.
