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Trump 2024!

Stuffshot said:
Seriously?

Trump was convicted of felonies 34 times, but you think Biden is in trouble.

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Yes. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣That doesn’t impact the daily trials people face trying to get by. Do you understand that difference? That they vote on policies that actually bear on their lives🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣👍 not accounting practices for stripper settlements
 
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mcmurtry66 said:
Yes. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣That doesn’t impact the daily trials people face trying to get by. Do you understand that difference? That they vote on policies 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣👍
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Then, they shouldn't vote for Trump, because he doesn't have any policies. Trump's promises cannot be trusted, and yet here is Leader McMurtry promoting Trump.

Trump now supports the Affordable Care Act and wants to make it stronger not weaker:

"I’m not running to terminate the ACA as crooked Joe Biden says all over the place,” Trump said in a video posted to Truth Social on Thursday, echoing a message he posted last month. “We’re going to make the ACA much better than it is right now and much less expensive for you.”​
​

Remember when Trump campaigned exclusively on his promise that he was going to repeal and replace Obamacare? Yet, Trump didn't do shit about it in four whole years even with Republican control of both the House and Senate for two of those years. Now, he's fooled you again and you fell for it.
 
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Stuffshot said:
Then, they shouldn't vote for Trump, because he doesn't have any policies. Trump's promises cannot be trusted, and yet here is Leader McMurtry promoting Trump.

Trump now supports the Affordable Care Act and wants to make it stronger not weaker:

"I’m not running to terminate the ACA as crooked Joe Biden says all over the place,” Trump said in a video posted to Truth Social on Thursday, echoing a message he posted last month. “We’re going to make the ACA much better than it is right now and much less expensive for you.”​
​

Remember when Trump campaigned exclusively on his promise that he was going to repeal and replace Obamacare? Yet, Trump didn't do shit about it in four whole years even with Republican control of both the House and Senate for two of those years. Now, he's fooled you again and you fell for it.
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So trump didn’t do anything. My goodness how much better off would we be if Dems followed that path. Not defund police. Not reverse remain in Mexico and title 42 and asylum agreements. Not stay bills and issue excess stimulus when warned it would give rise to inflation.

Now here you are, fooled again, haven’t learned a thing as you wait around for more gov to make things worse. I have tried so hard to teach you. Yet you still count on gov to make things better. “What will gov do.” Let’s hope very little. Biden’s “fixes” have been quite a boondoggle

Sad
 
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CO. Hoosier said:
What I’ve brought? Are you f*cking kidding?

Marc Elias and the Dems have made sure that we can never ever have a perceived reliable election again. Illegal immigrants need only check a box in some states and bingo they are registered to vote. Early voting and non-identification have stripped voting of reliability. Even if deliberate fraud isn’t proven, fraud is much easier to accomplish now than ever. And much of it will be difficult or impossible to detect.

Purple finger voting is more reliable than what the you Dems have given us.
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Uhhhhhh......what state is that where Illegal Immigrants check a box and are allowed to vote?
 
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Stuffshot said:
Seriously?

Trump was convicted of felonies 34 times, but you think Biden is in trouble.

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Just stop. Trump was convicted because important people hate him, he is a Republican, and he is an asshole. Nobody gives a damn about 34 checks some hapless clerk marked as “legal expense”.

Doncha wonder why Bragg hired a legal task force to find something on Trump, they examined him from top to bottom, side to side, and inside to outside and all they could find were these 34 checks? Trump spent his entire business career in New York, and all they got were these 34 checks to Cohen? Here I thought Trump was the most crooked operator in the whole city.
 
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CO. Hoosier said:
Just stop. Trump was convicted because important people hate him, he is a Republican, and he is an asshole. Nobody gives a damn about 34 checks some hapless clerk marked as “legal expense”.

Doncha wonder why Bragg hired a legal task force to find something on Trump, they examined him from top to bottom, side to side, and inside to outside and all they could find were these 34 checks? Trump spent his entire business career in New York, and all they got were these 34 checks to Cohen? Here I thought Trump was the most crooked operator in the whole city.
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Al Capone would like a word.
 
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CO. Hoosier said:
Just stop. Trump was convicted because important people hate him, he is a Republican, and he is an asshole. Nobody gives a damn about 34 checks some hapless clerk marked as “legal expense”.

Doncha wonder why Bragg hired a legal task force to find something on Trump, they examined him from top to bottom, side to side, and inside to outside and all they could find were these 34 checks? Trump spent his entire business career in New York, and all they got were these 34 checks to Cohen? Here I thought Trump was the most crooked operator in the whole city.
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It’s a distraction from the progressive policy failures of this administration that people like @Stuffshot fall for.
 
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CO. Hoosier said:
Just stop. Trump was convicted because important people hate him, he is a Republican, and he is an asshole. Nobody gives a damn about 34 checks some hapless clerk marked as “legal expense”.

Doncha wonder why Bragg hired a legal task force to find something on Trump, they examined him from top to bottom, side to side, and inside to outside and all they could find were these 34 checks? Trump spent his entire business career in New York, and all they got were these 34 checks to Cohen? Here I thought Trump was the most crooked operator in the whole city.
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Y-A-W-N.

Next time, dazzle us with something brilliant.
 
CO. Hoosier said:
Just stop. Trump was convicted because important people hate him, he is a Republican, and he is an asshole. Nobody gives a damn about 34 checks some hapless clerk marked as “legal expense”.

Doncha wonder why Bragg hired a legal task force to find something on Trump, they examined him from top to bottom, side to side, and inside to outside and all they could find were these 34 checks? Trump spent his entire business career in New York, and all they got were these 34 checks to Cohen? Here I thought Trump was the most crooked operator in the whole city.
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I’m doubting the legal team had full access to every business venture Trump was involved in or interviewed everyone in his organization about every transaction.

That is, the notion that a NYC real estate guy who cheaps out on so much and dares people to sue him is clean but for these checks is hard to believe.

All this said, I continue to think this prosecution was politically motivated (in a bad way) and unwise.
 
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BradStevens said:
I’m doubting the legal team had full access to every business venture Trump was involved in or interviewed everyone in his organization about every transaction.

That is, the notion that a NYC real estate guy who cheaps out on so much and dares people to sue him is clean but for these checks is hard to believe.

All this said, I continue to think this prosecution was politically motivated (in a bad way) and unwise.
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I think it’s worse than simply political. Trump scares important and influential people.

The government has subpoena authority, at least in the grand jury, maybe more.
In NY.

I keep hearing this prosecution came from a tip, probably Cohen.
 
CO. Hoosier said:
Al Capone was convicted of a legit IRS crime. The government didn’t have to make one up.

Nice try though.
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The IRS is legalized crime organization unless you think theft for bribery funds is not a crime. If the US govt. had to live by the dumbass laws thay put on citizens they all be felons.
 
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CO. Hoosier said:
I think it’s worse than simply political. Trump scares important and influential people.

The government has subpoena authority, at least in the grand jury, maybe more.
In NY.

I keep hearing this prosecution came from a tip, probably Cohen.
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Don't forget, Cohen was indicted sometime in 2018 and he pleaded guilty to something like 8 criminal charges, including a campaign financing violations related to Stormy Daniels stuff. As part of that, he testified that he paid Stormy "in coordination with and at the direction of a candidate for federal office."

Cyrus Vance began his investigation into Trump in 2019 and sent that subpoena to Mazars (trump accounting firm). That case went all the way to the supreme court in a 7-2 decision favoring the production of the tax records. The FEC also conducted an investigation and noted that there was a belief that Trump's campaign had knowingly violated campaign finance law, and in 2021 voted 2-2 (right along party lines), to abandon any inquiry to Daniels.

There's a long tortured history here. They didn't just decide to file charges wily nily.

Do I think that Trump was prosecuted because he was Trump and that the prosecutors thought he was guilty? Of course they did. Do I think that Hunter Biden is being prosecuted because he is Joe Biden's kid and he they think he is guilty? Absolutely.

Politically motivated or not? Should have brought or should not have brought? They are both ****ing morons who did something illegal.
 
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Mark Milton said:
Don't forget, Cohen was indicated sometime in 2018 and he pleaded guilty to something like 8 criminal charges, including a campaign financing violations related to Stormy Daniels stuff. As part of that, he testified that he paid Stormy "in coordination with and at the direction of a candidate for federal office."

Cyrus Vance began his investigation into Trump in 2019 and sent that subpoena to Mazars (trump accounting firm). That case went all the way to the supreme court in a 7-2 decision favoring the production of the tax records. The FEC also conducted an investigation and noted that there was a belief that Trump's campaign had knowingly violated campaign finance law, and in 2021 voted 2-2 (right along party lines), to abandon any inquiry to Daniels.

There's a long tortured history here. They didn't just decide to file charges wily nily.

Do I think that Trump was prosecuted because he was Trump and that the prosecutors thought he was guilty? Of course they did. Do I think that Hunter Biden is being prosecuted because he is Joe Biden's kid and he they think he is guilty? Absolutely.

Politically motivated or not? Should have brought or should not have brought? They are both ****ing morons who did something illegal.
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Hunter is only on trial now because the DOJ was caught trying to get through a ridiculous plea agreement.

Let's not act like the DOJ isn't acting in its own self-interest by charging Hunter now, when they've had years to do it, but are only now doing it to save face. And they know there's not a chance in hell Hunter will be found guilty in Delaware.

Between Hunter and Trump, the only political prosecution is against Trump, when the government waited years to charge him, only to do it so it coincides with the election cycle.
 
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DANC said:
Hunter is only on trial now because the DOJ was caught trying to get through a ridiculous plea agreement.

Let's not act like the DOJ isn't acting in its own self-interest by charging Hunter now, when they've had years to do it, but are only now doing it to save face.
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The initial indictment of Hunter came down in 2019......

I think you don't understand the plea agreement. The plea agreement deal was a cock up by Hunter's attorneys who thought they were getting out of any further criminal situations. They weren't. The transcript from the judge is very clear that the judge ticked off at Hunter's attorney because Hunter thought he was getting out of everything. He wasn't and never was.

There are two trials--one in California at the end of the month and the gun charges. Weirdly enough, a trump appointed judge presides over both.....
 
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Mark Milton said:
The initial indictment of Hunter came down in 2019......

I think you don't understand the plea agreement. The plea agreement deal was a cock up by Hunter's attorneys who thought they were getting out of any further criminal situations. They weren't. The transcript from the judge is very clear that the judge ticked off at Hunter's attorney because Hunter thought he was getting out of everything. He wasn't and never was.
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Yes, it was drug out, hoping the SOL would run, just as it had on Hunter's IRS charges a few years earlier.

I guess I don't understand your point. Are you saying the government didn't agree to the plea agreement
 
Mark Milton said:
Politically motivated or not? Should have brought or should not have brought? They are both ****ing morons who did something illegal.
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Facts, yo.

There's a difference, though. Trump is running for President for one of the two major parties and this was clearly brought as an attempt to prevent him from winning. That stinks and it has harmed the country, creating deeper divisions and animosities (not technically a legal issue, but one where a wise, neutral prosecutor would take account). Were there a victim to his crime, then sure, do it. But there is no victim here and the machinations to turn the charge into 34 different felonies are worthy of scorn, no matter who the defendant.
 
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DANC said:
Yes, it was drug out, hoping the SOL would run, just as it had on Hunter's IRS charges a few years earlier.

I guess I don't understand your point. Are you saying the government didn't agree to the plea agreement
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There's a tolling period in certain cases for tax evasion, and the statute would be 6 years and isn't just calculated by the day of filing. The SOL was never going to be an issue.

The government never agreed on to a plea agreement release all of Hunter's federal activities. It specifically limited it to "business affairs, drug use, and tax nonpayment from 2016-2019. It left out the Foreign Agents Registration Act and gun charges, and Hunter's attorney withdrew from any deal
 
BradStevens said:
Facts, yo.

There's a difference, though. Trump is running for President for one of the two major parties and this was clearly brought as an attempt to prevent him from winning. That stinks and it has harmed the country, creating deeper divisions and animosities (not technically a legal issue, but one where a wise, neutral prosecutor would take account). Were there a victim to his crime, then sure, do it. But there is no victim here and the machinations to turn the charge into 34 different felonies are worthy of scorn, no matter who the defendant.
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Exactly. Pretty good political move tho. Trump lost a few points.
 
BradStevens said:
Facts, yo.

There's a difference, though. Trump is running for President for one of the two major parties and this was clearly brought as an attempt to prevent him from winning. That stinks and it has harmed the country, creating deeper divisions and animosities (not technically a legal issue, but one where a wise, neutral prosecutor would take account). Were there a victim to his crime, then sure, do it. But there is no victim here and the machinations to turn the charge into 34 different felonies are worthy of scorn, no matter who the defendant.
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I don't think running for president ought be some panacea or absolution for bad behavior. Where do you draw the line? Local office? House of Reps? Senate? And he wasn't running when the investigation started. The first grand jury was in November 2021. Should they have dropped the investigation when he announced he was running on November 15, 2022? We can agree that Bragg had a hard on for Trump and likely could have exercised some prosecutorial discretion.
 
Mark Milton said:
There's a tolling period in certain cases for tax evasion, and the statute would be 6 years and isn't just calculated by the day of filing. The SOL was never going to be an issue.

The government never agreed on to a plea agreement release all of Hunter's federal activities. It specifically limited it to "business affairs, drug use, and tax nonpayment from 2016-2019. It left out the Foreign Agents Registration Act and gun charges, and Hunter's attorney withdrew from any deal
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Are the gun charges not federal activities?

My understanding is the judge didn't agree with Hunter's attorney's understanding so, yes, he withdrew, but the plea deal the DOJ negotiated left open loopholes for Hunter. It's only because of the judge, not the DOJ, that Hunter withdrew.

So, now the DOJ is trying to save face by the putting on a trial for the gun charges. It's a strictly face saving move because the DOJ was embarrassed by the plea deal.
 
DANC said:
Are the gun charges not federal activities?

My understanding is the judge didn't agree with Hunter's attorney's understanding so, yes, he withdrew, but the plea deal the DOJ negotiated left open loopholes for Hunter. It's only because of the judge, not the DOJ, that Hunter withdrew.

So, now the DOJ is trying to save face by the putting on a trial for the gun charges. It's a strictly face saving move because the DOJ was embarrassed by the plea deal.
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I still don't think you are getting it

The gun charges and Federal Registration stuff were EXCLUDED from the please agreement. That is exactly what the prosecutor told the judge. Biden's attorney backed out as he had Hunter had misinterpreted the plea agreement, which had a very limited set of things he was pleading to that were not being prosecuted. This was a Hunter cock up because with criminal trials he has to go through the litany of knowingly waiving his rights before the judge. The judge has an obligation to discern whether Hunter is knowingly waiving his rights. He was 100% baffled in answering the judge's questions. The judge very specifically ask the US Attorney does that plea agreement cover all federal claims, and the attorney said "nope, see the list". The transcript is as clear as day what happened.
 
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DANC said:
So, now the DOJ is trying to save face by the putting on a trial for the gun charges. It's a strictly face saving move because the DOJ was embarrassed by the plea deal.
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You are making chicken shit out of chicken salad. The plea deal fell apart solely because Hunter's side misinterpreted the plead deal, which could not have been clearer as to what it WAS NOT including.
 
Mark Milton said:
I still don't think you are getting it

The gun charges and Federal Registration stuff were EXCLUDED from the please agreement. That is exactly what the prosecutor told the judge. Biden's attorney backed out as he had Hunter had misinterpreted the plea agreement, which had a very limited set of things he was pleading to that were not being prosecuted. This was a Hunter cock up because with criminal trials he has to go through the litany of knowingly waiving his rights before the judge. The judge has an obligation to discern whether Hunter is knowingly waiving his rights. He was 100% baffled in answering the judge's questions. The judge very specifically ask the US Attorney does that plea agreement cover all federal claims, and the attorney said "nope, see the list". The transcript is as clear as day what happened.
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You are arguing with a GOPbot.
 
Mark Milton said:
I still don't think you are getting it

The gun charges and Federal Registration stuff were EXCLUDED from the please agreement. That is exactly what the prosecutor told the judge. Biden's attorney backed out as he had Hunter had misinterpreted the plea agreement, which had a very limited set of things he was pleading to that were not being prosecuted. This was a Hunter cock up because with criminal trials he has to go through the litany of knowingly waiving his rights before the judge. The judge has an obligation to discern whether Hunter is knowingly waiving his rights. He was 100% baffled in answering the judge's questions. The judge very specifically ask the US Attorney does that plea agreement cover all federal claims, and the attorney said "nope, see the list". The transcript is as clear as day what happened.
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I defer to your reading of it, but I believe there was tacit agreement between the DOJ and Hunter's lawyer that 'gun charges and Federal Registration stuff' may have been excluded, but had no intention of pressing charges for those items, once the plea went through.

Sure, they admitted they weren't included in the plea agreement, but only after the judge caught it.
 
Mark Milton said:
I don't think running for president ought be some panacea or absolution for bad behavior. Where do you draw the line? Local office? House of Reps? Senate? And he wasn't running when the investigation started. The first grand jury was in November 2021. Should they have dropped the investigation when he announced he was running on November 15, 2022? We can agree that Bragg had a hard on for Trump and likely could have exercised some prosecutorial discretion.
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I don't think I need to draw a line and define a bunch of tests, etc. here. Wisdom (as I see it; YMMV), balancing, precedent, level of the office, reading the current political atmosphere, etc. are enough.

But if I did have to draw the line, I think I might look towards what I discussed in the post above: is there an actual victim? Something that cries out for justice? Maybe you consider whether there was real harm to "the nation" or bad precedent you want to prevent (like the documents case, although given past treatment of presidential candidates or sitting presidents, that's a tough one)? The problem with the latter is its too malleable and will bend too easily to political desires.

Re the Bragg charges, they were investigated by the previous NY DA and the SD of NY and both decided not to bring charges. And then Bragg runs on getting Trump and reopens them? That's also a pretty bright line and red flag as to the nature of this prosecution.
 
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