This is what the Trump Abyss Looks Like

crazed_hoosier2

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So...he's suggesting establishment pols pivot in response to Trump rather than just whine and squeal? What a novel suggestion.

That said, I think his suggestions for anti-Trump Republicans to move away from Trump's agenda would be suicidal. They're not going to fall on their swords (and, IMO, don't have to). Rather, they should take a page from Bill Clinton's playbook in the wake of the 1994 mid-terms -- where Republicans waged a form of populist, reform-minded conservatism to win Congressional majorities. Clinton didn't pivot away from their agenda -- he co-opted selected parts of it so as to neutralize its effectiveness. That's why WJC is among the wiliest politicians I've ever been witness to.

I do think he's right that Dems should ditch the identity politics that has so balkanized their bases of support. But it's so deeply entrenched by now that I seriously doubt that's going to happen. There was some talk about that in the wake of the 2016 election. But there's no indication that it's materialized into a unifying strategy.
 

iu_a_att

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So...he's suggesting establishment pols pivot in response to Trump rather than just whine and squeal? What a novel suggestion.

That said, I think his suggestions for anti-Trump Republicans to move away from Trump's agenda would be suicidal. They're not going to fall on their swords (and, IMO, don't have to). Rather, they should take a page from Bill Clinton's playbook in the wake of the 1994 mid-terms -- where Republicans waged a form of populist, reform-minded conservatism to win Congressional majorities. Clinton didn't pivot away from their agenda -- he co-opted selected parts of it so as to neutralize its effectiveness. That's why WJC is among the wiliest politicians I've ever been witness to.

I do think he's right that Dems should ditch the identity politics that has so balkanized their bases of support. But it's so deeply entrenched by now that I seriously doubt that's going to happen. There was some talk about that in the wake of the 2016 election. But there's no indication that it's materialized into a unifying strategy.
The identity politics in play is white identity politics and there is no way the GOP is dropping that as it is the centerpiece of Trumpism. You mean that the Dems should play white identity politics too...i.e., attack and scapegoat people of color. WJC did exactly that. Obama showed that Dems can win without doing that.
 
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crazed_hoosier2

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The identity politics in play is white identity politics and there is no way the GOP is dropping that as it is the centerpiece of Trumpism. You mean that the Dems should play white identity politics too...i.e., attack and scapegoat people of color. WJC did exactly that. Obama showed that Dems can win without doing that.
Bill Clinton attacked and scapegoated black people?

Um, OK.
 

Sope Creek

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Feb 5, 2003
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So...he's suggesting establishment pols pivot in response to Trump rather than just whine and squeal? What a novel suggestion.

That said, I think his suggestions for anti-Trump Republicans to move away from Trump's agenda would be suicidal. They're not going to fall on their swords (and, IMO, don't have to). Rather, they should take a page from Bill Clinton's playbook in the wake of the 1994 mid-terms -- where Republicans waged a form of populist, reform-minded conservatism to win Congressional majorities. Clinton didn't pivot away from their agenda -- he co-opted selected parts of it so as to neutralize its effectiveness. That's why WJC is among the wiliest politicians I've ever been witness to.

I do think he's right that Dems should ditch the identity politics that has so balkanized their bases of support. But it's so deeply entrenched by now that I seriously doubt that's going to happen. There was some talk about that in the wake of the 2016 election. But there's no indication that it's materialized into a unifying strategy.
Yeah, and we got a total repeal of Glass-Stegall, too, among a host of other policy shifts that haven't turned out well . . . you're merely suggesting that Democrats co-opt Trump's agenda, when it's the agenda, not the politics, that's the problem.

No thanks.

That said, I have no issue with moving away from identity politics and taking Trump and Bannon on where they're strongest, i.e., in class identity politics, where Dems likely will have the upper hand on economic issues over the long run . . . after taking losses in the short run.
 

crazed_hoosier2

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Mar 28, 2011
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Yeah, and we got a total repeal of Glass-Stegall, too, among a host of other policy shifts that haven't turned out well . . . you're merely suggesting that Democrats co-opt Trump's agenda, when it's the agenda, not the politics, that's the problem.

No thanks.

That said, I have no issue with moving away from identity politics and taking Trump and Bannon on where they're strongest, i.e., in class identity politics, where Dems likely will have the upper hand on economic issues over the long run . . . after taking losses in the short run.
Well, I'm not suggesting anybody co-opt Trump's agenda.

I'm suggesting "normal" Republicans take a couple calculated steps towards it without co-opting it....so as to neutralize its allure.

If they'd have done that prior to 2016, Trump would be lobbying for another season of The Apprentice.
 

Sope Creek

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Well, I'm not suggesting anybody co-opt Trump's agenda.

I'm suggesting "normal" Republicans take a couple calculated steps towards it without co-opting it....so as to neutralize its allure.

If they'd have done that prior to 2016, Trump would be lobbying for another season of The Apprentice.
You referenced Clinton, who co-opted much of the GOP's agenda in the early 90s. If you weren't suggesting that approach be used by moderate GOP or Democrat congress folks, then your reference to Clinton was misleading . . . or better yet, silly.
 

crazed_hoosier2

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You referenced Clinton, who co-opted much of the GOP's agenda in the early 90s. If you weren't suggesting that approach be used by moderate GOP or Democrat congress folks, then your reference to Clinton was misleading . . . or better yet, silly.
How so?

First of all, Bill Clinton didn't co-opt the Gingrich platform. He took steps towards it -- but he did not just erase their name from the letterhead and put his on it. This was both smart and effective -- and it not only quickly repaired his political fortunes, it also helped to put the new Congress off its stride.

I don't think Democrats have room to take any steps towards Trump's agenda. But Republicans do -- and that's how they can stem the populist tide. It would defang his narrative -- and without further dividing the party.

If they did what Sully suggests they do, it would be a disaster for them. That would be really stupid.
 
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How so?

First of all, Bill Clinton didn't co-opt the Gingrich platform. He took steps towards it -- but he did not just erase their name from the letterhead and put his on it. This was both smart and effective -- and it not only quickly repaired his political fortunes, it also helped to put the new Congress off its stride.

I don't think Democrats have room to take any steps towards Trump's agenda. But Republicans do -- and that's how they can stem the populist tide. It would defang his narrative -- and without further dividing the party.

If they did what Sully suggests they do, it would be a disaster for them. That would be really stupid.
What, exactly, is Trump's "agenda"?

He's flip-flopped on every single issue known to man at least 20 times.
 

TheOriginalHappyGoat

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Oct 4, 2010
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Margaritaville
So...he's suggesting establishment pols pivot in response to Trump rather than just whine and squeal? What a novel suggestion.

That said, I think his suggestions for anti-Trump Republicans to move away from Trump's agenda would be suicidal. They're not going to fall on their swords (and, IMO, don't have to). Rather, they should take a page from Bill Clinton's playbook in the wake of the 1994 mid-terms -- where Republicans waged a form of populist, reform-minded conservatism to win Congressional majorities. Clinton didn't pivot away from their agenda -- he co-opted selected parts of it so as to neutralize its effectiveness. That's why WJC is among the wiliest politicians I've ever been witness to.

I do think he's right that Dems should ditch the identity politics that has so balkanized their bases of support. But it's so deeply entrenched by now that I seriously doubt that's going to happen. There was some talk about that in the wake of the 2016 election. But there's no indication that it's materialized into a unifying strategy.
You have an amazing capacity to read another person's words and twist them into something else entirely.
 
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sglowrider

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I love the beginning. Like any of his tweets are presidential? What deep self reflection skills the man has!
He is unique for sure!

What about this:


He cant even miss an opportunity to insult the press using their kids as a platform. Thats not unpresidential??
 

zeke4ahs

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Oct 26, 2003
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He is unique for sure!

What about this:



He cant even miss an opportunity to insult the press using their kids as a platform. Thats not unpresidential??
That was insane. Talking about the media in front of the kids and their parents is the epitome of inappropriate. The kids were looking at him like he was crazy. And then the weight comment? The man does not know how to have a genuine conversation.
 

sglowrider

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That was insane. Talking about the media in front of the kids and their parents is the epitome of inappropriate. The kids were looking at him like he was crazy. And then the weight comment? The man does not know how to have a genuine conversation.
Just like the stories he told to the boy scouts. .. he is just a weird guy and that's being generous.
 

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