Regardless of who you voted for in November, how is THIS a good idea?

[Ohio Guy]

Read this, Guy. It’s eye-popping and alarming as fvck.

Musk is a 'special government employee,' the White House confirms

A White House official says Elon Musk is working for President Donald Trump as a “special government employee."

apnews.com

That's pretty wild. I guess our politics are too fragmented and 'team' oriented now because this should be throwing up red flags for either side of the political spectrum. I'd like to think this would still be concerning to me if the roles were reversed.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Interesting. Hopefully that will help him be more successful at cutting some government spending.

Honestly, I'm just glad that he's following through. I figured that the whole "DOGE" thing was going to become one of those things that were talked about in a campaign but never materialize or amount to much. Elon Musk has a helluva lot on his plate. And he certainly doesn't need to be spending his extremely valuable time doing any of this.

I still don't think it'll be much more than nibbling around the edges. But that's more than we've ever gotten since I've been paying attention.

That's pretty wild. I guess our politics are too fragmented and 'team' oriented now because this should be throwing up red flags for either side of the political spectrum. I'd like to think this would still be concerning to me if the roles were reversed.

I agree with crazed but understand your reservations too Ohio. It is somewhat scary. This level of access. But I guess you can sort of think if it as any outside contractor engaged. Can’t do meaningful work without access right?

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

And that’s okay. But doesn’t mean everything shouldn’t be audited and tested. How much money has been wasted, money that could be spent so much better, efficiently and quickly on areas much more beneficial to military readiness?

I’m all for it. Not extremely hopeful about it. The DoD as a whole has never passed one and I’m sure they weren’t trying to fail.

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

I'm very happy with how things are progressing. I want government cut and will take it anyway I can get it. I don't understand the tariffs on Canada, but it's Trump. You get 3 things you like and one dumb thing. For example, I got the stupid Trump coin, but he also just signed an EO for a SWF.

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I actually think that's a good idea.

 

[Univee2]

I agree with crazed but understand your reservations too Ohio. It is somewhat scary. This level of access. But I guess you can sort of think if it as any outside contractor engaged. Can’t do meaningful work without access right?

But next to nothing has been done since, well, fvcking forever. Same old; same old; same old; out to infinity and beyond.

Go in and bust up some shit. Give it time and see how it shakes out. Doing nothing accomplishes nothing.

 

[mcmurtry66]

But next to nothing has been done since, well, fvcking forever. Same old; same old; same old; out to infinity and beyond.

Go in and bust up some shit. Give it time and see how it shakes out. Doing nothing accomplishes nothing.

I’m in. I just wish there was a bridge 4 years after Biden. Let things calm down. People regroup then embark on tariffs and all this stuff. But timing is what it is

 

[CO. Hoosier]

And, yet, he still has some truly awful ideas related to foreign trade....which is a vital thing for our economy and is not something that we're on the "losing" side of at all.

Everybody who gets bent out of shape about the current account deficit (aka "trade deficit") needs to look up what a capital account is in the context of balance of payments. When we have a current account deficit, it means we're running an equivalent capital account surplus. And that's a huge deal from a macro perspective.

But, beyond that, Americans gain immensely by having access to goods that are produced less expensively elsewhere. If American car companies can't compete with the likes of BYD, then that's on them to get figured out. Or, else, our domestic automobile industry will just decline....as we've lost it to the "creative destruction" of comparative advantage (or, in this case, comparative disadvantage).

I’ve never understood the trade deficit argument. We get value for the imported goods. If we important a barrel of oil, we have the value that oil produces.. Who cares if we export something in exchange? Is this too simple?

 

[CO. Hoosier]

He’s the richest guy in the world, the biggest government contractor, Trump’s biggest donor. Yet he’ll have actual accountability from within the administration? What are you smoking?

He’s figured out how to put a kilo of material into orbit cheaper than anybody in history— by a lot! I want to exploit him for my benefit. He is willing. What’s the problem?

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

I agree with crazed but understand your reservations too Ohio. It is somewhat scary. This level of access. But I guess you can sort of think if it as any outside contractor engaged. Can’t do meaningful work without access right?

I’m sure Elon Musk is not the only individual with this level of access to that system.

I’m sympathetic to people complaining about him having access to personal info (like SSN and whatever else it has). If sensitive personal info can be encrypted or withheld, that sounds more than reasonable. It’s not relevant to what he’s doing.

 

[ButHerEmails]

And one other point -I'd guess it's almost impossible to not throw the baby out with the bathwater on some of these cuts. I know Trump and Musk are trying to make USAID out to be run by Satan, but a lot of people around the world will suffer when that funding goes away.

Yeah, but mostly black/brown people from shithole countries. F*** ‘em.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

He’s figured out how to put a kilo of material into orbit cheaper than anybody in history— by a lot! I want to exploit him for my benefit. He is willing. What’s the problem?

And I agree with this, too. Considering how much an hour of his time is worth, it’s a helluva deal for taxpayers that he’s willing to do this on a volunteer basis.

 

[mcmurtry66]

And I agree with this, too. Considering how much an hour of his time is worth, it’s a helluva deal for taxpayers that he’s willing to do this on a volunteer basis.

I’m sure he’ll do fine in the next round of gov Ks for whatever endeavor.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

I’ve never understood the trade deficit argument. We get value for the imported goods. If we important a barrel of oil, we have the value that oil produces.. Who cares if we export something in exchange? Is this too simple?

And that’s certainly true, too. Besides, the notion that we have to export as much as we import from a trading partner in order to “win” is absurd.

Do you know what my “trade deficit” is with my grocer? Do you know what Toyota’s “trade deficit” is with me and the other shareholders of my business?

But our benefit is even more than that from a macro perspective. And this comes with the capital account - which necessarily balances out the current account. They balance - like assets and liabilities on a balance sheet.

Here’s a short video explaining balance of payments. If more people understood this, maybe they’d have less angst about a trade deficit.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I’m sure Elon Musk is not the only individual with this level of access to that system.

I’m sympathetic to people complaining about him having access to personal info (like SSN and whatever else it has). If sensitive personal info can be encrypted or withheld, that sounds more than reasonable. It’s not relevant to what he’s doing.

It’s strictly controlled and this is definitely not control. OPM and Treasury has the most sensitive personal information, including addresses, financial information like bank accounts and routing numbers, how much each person is paid if government employee, tax refunds tor everyone, and much more. Musk and is people should have access to none of this stuff.

 

[dbmhoosier]

😁

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

It’s strictly controlled and this is definitely not control. OPM and Treasury has the most sensitive personal information, including addresses, financial information like bank accounts and routing numbers, how much each person is paid if government employee, tax refunds tor everyone, and much more. Musk and is people should have access to none of this stuff.

I’m certainly good with him having access to government salaries. Aren’t those public record anyway?

This seems easily addressed to me: just withhold the sensitive info that he doesn’t need to perform his role.

(But I honestly don’t think this is the actual gripe many of his critics have…it just sounds better for public consumption than their actual gripe).

 

[IUclover]

😁

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View embedded media

Is Rubio/Musk going to tell us what was wasteful spending or should we just trust them? Or will they only tell us what you want to hear was wasteful?

I'm totally fine with cutting what needs cut but I'd like some transparency rather than trusting two peeps I don't trust.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Do you know what my “trade deficit” is with my grocer? Do you know what Toyota’s “trade deficit” is with me and the other shareholders of my business?

Exactly. I used to represent an auto dealer. Each time he’d bitch about fees I reminded him about how much money I spent with him. Always good for laugh.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I’m certainly good with him having access to government salaries. Aren’t those public record anyway?

This seems easily addressed to me: just withhold the sensitive info that he doesn’t need to perform his role.

(But I honestly don’t think this is the actual gripe many of his critics have…it just sounds better for public consumption than their actual gripe).

From what I’ve read they got access to all of it. An OPM breach from years ago is the reason the government is still paying for an ID protection service for me. The first year after someone filed a bogus tax return using my SSN, no doubt for a big refund check. This is all the information bad guys need for ID theft and all the ways that can screw over innocent victims.

 

[mrhighlife]

I’m certainly good with him having access to government salaries. Aren’t those public record anyway?

This seems easily addressed to me: just withhold the sensitive info that he doesn’t need to perform his role.

(But I honestly don’t think this is the actual gripe many of his critics have…it just sounds better for public consumption than their actual gripe).

Who has oversight here to make sure Musk doesn't access that info? No one is coming out a saying they do...

What if our information does end up breached. Who is responsible?

Politicians in DC may have some ulterior motives to keep Musk out. But the everyday American doesn't. It's the gripe we are talking about. No "Joe on the Street" Democrat cares if Musk cuts waste. Hell most agree with it and have been calling for this for years. It's no oversight and accountability if shit hits the fan that is the problem here.

 

[outside shooter]

I'm very happy with how things are progressing. I want government cut and will take it anyway I can get it. I don't understand the tariffs on Canada, but it's Trump. You get 3 things you like and one dumb thing.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that Trump is hellbent on cutting government spending everywhere, after identifying anything that is wasteful. Lots of people are under that same mistaken impression.

But read the since-retracted White House memo.

Trump is only hellbent on cutting government spending for anything he considers "woke" and touching upon DEI, so basically anything threatening the white male agenda.

Give him truth serum and we'd find out that he wants to eliminate money going disproportionately to benefit
1) women
2) blacks
3) other "dirty" brown skin foreigners (even if born here)
4) LBGTQ+

It's not hard to see where he's coming from. Just listen to Stephen Miller.

 

[jsig]

And one other point -I'd guess it's almost impossible to not throw the baby out with the bathwater on some of these cuts. I know Trump and Musk are trying to make USAID out to be run by Satan, but a lot of people around the world will suffer when that funding goes away.

Like these people? They really helped them for 5 years. NOT!

Involvement in Peru's forced sterilizations​

Main article: Forced sterilization in Peru § USAID
During the 1990s, USAID was implicated in the forced sterilization of approximately 300,000 indigenous women in Peru as part of the country's Plan Verde. Population control guidelines promoted by international bodies, including USAID, the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA) and the Nippon Foundation, supported the Fujimori government's sterilization efforts.[211][212] Investigations by Peru's congressional subcommittee found a causal correlation between increased USAID funding and the number of sterilizations performed.[212] These sterilizations were part of a global strategy by the United States government to reduce birth rates in developing countries for political and economic stability.[212]

Documents obtained through the Freedom of Information Act revealed that USAID effectively took control of Peru's national health system from 1993 to 1998, during the period of forced sterilizations. It was concluded that it would be virtually inconceivable for these sterilization abuses to have occurred systematically without the knowledge of USAID administrators in Peru and Washington.[211][212]

Under pressure from investigations by the Population Research Institute, USAID ceased funding for sterilizations in Peru in 1998. The forced sterilizations continued until President Fujimori fled to Japan in 2000.[213] The policy resulted in a generational shift, creating a smaller younger generation unable to provide economic stimulation to rural areas, thus increasing poverty in those regions.[213]

 

[larsIU]

He’s figured out how to put a kilo of material into orbit cheaper than anybody in history— by a lot! I want to exploit him for my benefit. He is willing. What’s the problem?

Just make sure we (the people) are doing the exploiting. Methinks ol Elon might be doing a little exploiting himself.

To be sure, I welcome our new oligarchy wtih open arms, as long as they do what we want them to. Pity it so rarely works out that way. But I'm sure it will this time.

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that Trump is hellbent on cutting government spending everywhere, after identifying anything that is wasteful. Lots of people are under that same mistaken impression.

But read the since-retracted White House memo.

Trump is only hellbent on cutting government spending for anything he considers "woke" and touching upon DEI, so basically anything threatening the white male agenda.

Give him truth serum and we'd find out that he wants to eliminate money going disproportionately to benefit
1) women
2) blacks
3) other "dirty" brown skin foreigners (even if born here)
4) LBGTQ+

It's not hard to see where he's coming from. Just listen to Stephen Miller.

Jesus. You’re really in deep.

Trumps shift away from valuing immutable characteristics (and in the case of LGBT, chosen characteristics) is a massive breath of fresh air.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Politicians in DC may have some ulterior motives to keep Musk out. But the everyday American doesn't. It's the gripe we are talking about. No "Joe on the Street" Democrat cares if Musk cuts waste.

I really think you’ve hit on something here.

Do you think the politicians actually fret our personal info being breached? I’m not saying they don’t care about that. But is that actually the reason they’re raising so much hell about what’s going on?

What happens if nothing happens with our personal info? Are they going to then be OK with this?

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Just make sure we (the people) are doing the exploiting. Methinks ol Elon might be doing a little exploiting himself.

To be sure, I welcome our new oligarchy wtih open arms, as long as they do what we want them to. Pity it so rarely works out that way. But I'm sure it will this time.

I can’t honestly say I’m worried about that with him. I think he’s genuinely concerned about our government’s financial wherewithal.

But maybe I’m being naive. Wouldn’t be the first time. I guess time will tell.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that Trump is hellbent on cutting government spending everywhere, after identifying anything that is wasteful. Lots of people are under that same mistaken impression.

But read the since-retracted White House memo.

Trump is only hellbent on cutting government spending for anything he considers "woke" and touching upon DEI, so basically anything threatening the white male agenda.

Give him truth serum and we'd find out that he wants to eliminate money going disproportionately to benefit
1) women
2) blacks
3) other "dirty" brown skin foreigners (even if born here)
4) LBGTQ+

It's not hard to see where he's coming from. Just listen to Stephen Miller.

I’m good with cutting “woke” spending, too. DEI is a complete waste, and in some cases is probably violative of the 14th amendment.

 

[outside shooter]

...a massive breath of fresh air.

I didn't say whether it is good or bad. I'm just saying that you're being sold a bill of goods when people say to you that he's the great slasher of all government waste.

The $8,000,000,000,000 added to the Federal deficit in his first term should tell you that.

It's an anti-woke snipe hunt he's on, not some righteous cost-cutting crusade. He wants the boogeyman under your bed.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Jesus. You’re really in deep.

Trumps shift away from valuing immutable characteristics (and in the case of LGBT, chosen characteristics) is a massive breath of fresh air.

Woke

 

[mcmurtry66]

I didn't say whether it is good or bad. I'm just saying that you're being sold a bill of goods when people say to you that he's the great slasher of all government waste.

The $8,000,000,000,000 added to the Federal deficit in his first term should tell you that.

It's an anti-woke snipe hunt he's on, not some righteous cost-cutting crusade. He wants the boogeyman under your bed.

That’s fine. Better than nothing

 

[mrhighlife]

I really think you’ve hit on something here.

Do you think the politicians actually fret our personal info being breached? I’m not saying they don’t care about that. But is that actually the reason they’re raising so much hell about what’s going on?

What happens if nothing happens with our personal info? Are they going to then be OK with this?

I'd rather not find out. It shouldn't be hard to get assurance from both Trump and Musk that none of our personal data will be accessed. Put that in writing and swear to it under oath. If they **** up they should held accountable.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

I'd rather not find out. It shouldn't be hard to get assurance from both Trump and Musk that none of our personal data will be accessed. Put that in writing and swear to it under oath. If they **** up they should held accountable.

As this system is the purview of the Treasury Department, which is an executive agency, then I’d be stunned to learn that POTUS didn’t already technically have access to all of its information.

POTUS isn’t just the chief executive of that branch of government, he’s pretty much a dictator - subject only to things like advice and consent on appointments, impeachment, etc.

Whether or not that empowers him to transfer that access to Musk, I couldn’t tell you. But POTUS has almost total power over executive branch agencies. So I’d guess that it does.

With all the kvetching about Musk being granted access, I’m not aware of any court challenges to it yet.

 

[HurryingHoosiers]

Not classic at all. Pretty ordinary among high functioning people.

Well I know you aren't referring to Trump. Only thing that would make your post even more hilarious is if you mentioned having a moral compass.

 

[mrhighlife]

I wonder if this new sovereign wealth fund has anything to do with the feud Musk has with the Norway Wealth Fund? Probably just a coincidence...

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Just make sure we (the people) are doing the exploiting. Methinks ol Elon might be doing a little exploiting himself.

I get the point. But it isn’t a big concern. Musk doesn’t need this gig to be a success. Even if this does help him be more successful, I think that will help all of us. Musks wealth comes from producing goods and services not previously available(Tesla, Starlink) or doing it cheaper than anybody (Falcon rockets).

Shotwell said the starship will be the most valuable commercial success yet.

 

[twenty02]

As this system is the purview of the Treasury Department, which is an executive agency, then I’d be stunned to learn that POTUS didn’t already technically have access to all of its information.

POTUS isn’t just the chief executive of that branch of government, he’s pretty much a dictator - subject only to things like advice and consent on appointments, impeachment, etc.

Whether or not that empowers him to transfer that access to Musk, I couldn’t tell you. But POTUS has almost total power over executive branch agencies. So I’d guess that it does.

With all the kvetching about Musk being granted access, I’m not aware of any court challenges to it yet.

I understand that SpaceX can't even share with Musk everything they work on...

Why Elon Musk doesn't have access to all of SpaceX's top secret work: report

SpaceX CEO Elon Musk's security clearance level precludes him from accessing some of the company's most sensitive national security programs, according to a new report.

www.foxbusiness.com

The reality is there are clearly different rules for Elon than anyone else.

I find the access to the Treasury payment system kind of odd anyway. Not like there is going to be a lot of detail to such a data set. Would be like getting a giant bank account ledger....You would have to go back to the agency that is paying to get any detail on what it was actually for.

He must have a hit list of certain vendors that he's looking for to axe.

 

[larsIU]

I get the point. But it isn’t a big concern. Musk doesn’t need this gig to be a success. Even if this does help him be more successful, I think that will help all of us. Musks wealth comes from producing goods and services not previously available(Tesla, Starlink) or doing it cheaper than anybody (Falcon rockets).

Shotwell said the starship will be the most valuable commercial success yet.

yes, Musk is already wealthy beyond his wildest dreams. But I bet he still wants that $7500 tax break/subsidy on EVs, no? And SpaceX can't fly without the feds letting him. Plus, he's gonna be at least a freight carrier if not the tip of the spear. No problems with making sure that happens right? I don't think Musk leaves much to chance and I think his motivations here aren't entirely cystalline in their purity.

Does that mean I dont think he can provide enormous value? No. But we should have guardrails. If you think he's going to forget what he learns in his post government life, wellllllll....i've got some land (bit swampy) to sell ya.

This whole things comes off as very hopeful thinking. Again, I'm hoping it works.

 

[larsIU]

He must have a hit list of certain vendors that he's looking for to axe.

Shirley, not competitors? No, definitely not. He'd never....

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

I understand that SpaceX can't even share with Musk everything they work on...

Why Elon Musk doesn't have access to all of SpaceX's top secret work: report

SpaceX CEO Elon Musk's security clearance level precludes him from accessing some of the company's most sensitive national security programs, according to a new report.

www.foxbusiness.com

The reality is there are clearly different rules for Elon than anyone else.

I find the access to the Treasury payment system kind of odd anyway. Not like there is going to be a lot of detail to such a data set. Would be like getting a giant bank account ledger....You would have to go back to the agency that is paying to get any detail on what it was actually for.

He must have a hit list of certain vendors that he's looking for to axe.

I guess we’ll find out…assuming he doesn’t get hit with an injunction.

The way people are freaking out by his having access to it raises my eyebrows a bit. And I honestly don’t think the ones freaking out are worried about people’s SSNs leaking out — at least the ones in the Beltway.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

As this system is the purview of the Treasury Department, which is an executive agency, then I’d be stunned to learn that POTUS didn’t already technically have access to all of its information.

POTUS isn’t just the chief executive of that branch of government, he’s pretty much a dictator - subject only to things like advice and consent on appointments, impeachment, etc.

Whether or not that empowers him to transfer that access to Musk, I couldn’t tell you. But POTUS has almost total power over executive branch agencies. So I’d guess that it does.

With all the kvetching about Musk being granted access, I’m not aware of any court challenges to it yet.

Presidents can’t log in and see this information either. Guaranteed. I was responsible for a major system with tons off sensitive personal information. The President certainly didn’t have an account. He has people for that.

Besides, President Trump was unable to protect highly classified information. He can’t be trusted with this either.