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Papadopoulus

This guy looks like the key for the possible collusion with Russia to influence the election instead of Manafort.

First of all, please remember that I have never - not even for a day - supported Trump.
He beat my preferred candidate(s) in the primary, but his behavior during the primary cost him my vote.
His behavior has not improved, and continues to - IMO - damage his ability to implement policy.
His "reactive" "attack all comers" strategy means he does not control the agenda.
You can make him spend his time on whatever YOU want to talk about - just send out a tweet.


But with that said, I still do not understand what is meant by "influence the election."

As I have said before, absent hacking a voting machine, and changing votes from "Clinton" to other candidates, it seems like something about which I do not and should not care - "who is best at propaganda?"

For example, in union elections conducted by the NLRB, the NLRB refuses to set aside election results based on "lies" told to the voters. The official position - "the voters will be exposed to propaganda by both sides - they must and will determine for themselves what is worthy of belief and support." The only exception is material that is designed to appear as if comes from the NLRB and designed to suggest a position by the government on the issues.

If Russians flooded the internet and/or other media (or helped others to do so, or sold them the info to do so) with stories, lies, truths, whatever, about Hillary to say "she is a horrible person/candidate," then SO WHAT? Is this not the same thing every voter sees every day on media? Am I REALLY supposed to assume that enough people were stupid enough to get "tricked" into NOT voting for a candidate that it changed the election result? "Mass delusional voting" due to propaganda by the Russkies? Is THAT what is at the end of this "Russian influence" road?

Bah.
Humbug.
 
First of all, please remember that I have never - not even for a day - supported Trump.
He beat my preferred candidate(s) in the primary, but his behavior during the primary cost him my vote.
His behavior has not improved, and continues to - IMO - damage his ability to implement policy.
His "reactive" "attack all comers" strategy means he does not control the agenda.
You can make him spend his time on whatever YOU want to talk about - just send out a tweet.


But with that said, I still do not understand what is meant by "influence the election."

As I have said before, absent hacking a voting machine, and changing votes from "Clinton" to other candidates, it seems like something about which I do not and should not care - "who is best at propaganda?"

For example, in union elections conducted by the NLRB, the NLRB refuses to set aside election results based on "lies" told to the voters. The official position - "the voters will be exposed to propaganda by both sides - they must and will determine for themselves what is worthy of belief and support." The only exception is material that is designed to appear as if comes from the NLRB and designed to suggest a position by the government on the issues.

If Russians flooded the internet and/or other media (or helped others to do so, or sold them the info to do so) with stories, lies, truths, whatever, about Hillary to say "she is a horrible person/candidate," then SO WHAT? Is this not the same thing every voter sees every day on media? Am I REALLY supposed to assume that enough people were stupid enough to get "tricked" into NOT voting for a candidate that it changed the election result? "Mass delusional voting" due to propaganda by the Russkies? Is THAT what is at the end of this "Russian influence" road?

Bah.
Humbug.
I think Russia or anyone can do all they want to influence voters with fake news or whatever and that might not be illegal even if we don't like it. It would be illegal if the Trump campaign coordinated with Russia for Russia to do it because that would be getting around campaign finance laws. It would be like campaign contributions over the limit and also from a foreign source and I believe both of those are illegal. This is how I understand it from what I've read and heard anyway.
 
It's why suddenly no one had heard of him today, including Trump.

George who? Papadopoulos? Oh, I thought you meant the snuffaluffagus
OwB.jpg
 
I think Russia or anyone can do all they want to influence voters with fake news or whatever and that might not be illegal even if we don't like it. It would be illegal if the Trump campaign coordinated with Russia for Russia to do it because that would be getting around campaign finance laws. It would be like campaign contributions over the limit and also from a foreign source and I believe both of those are illegal. This is how I understand it from what I've read and heard anyway.

I get that, but ...

So far, none of the (known) Papadopoulus stuff approaches that - the guilty plea stuff never mentioned anything financial. It was just "come, let's make nice on trips to Russia." (Maybe they left that out because he was The Wire guy, and they don't want to show their financial hand...yet.)

But also the (known) indictments for stuff going back to 2006, well before the campiagn, seem like routine money-laundering stuff (as if that's routine!?) .

So - so far I'm not seeing the financial connection. Maybe that comes in the future. But if all I ever hear is that Russians flooded the Marketplace of Ideas with "Clinton SUCKS!" e-posters, I'm yawning.

Or, I could go all "Grassy Knoll" on you - what if that Russian professor was a Clinton plant? What if the Clinton's set all this up? Ya know, Bendini, Lambert & Locke is just across the river from Arkansas....




 
I really don’t like to agree with you,But I think you’re right this time!

Someone check on Lucy. I’m worried about her now ;)

Also, keep in mind that Manafort is 70, and is likely looking at what amounts to a life sentence if he doesn’t cooperate (20-30 years in the federal pen). I seriously doubt he’ll choose being in prison for the rest of his life over protecting Trump and his team.

Plus, Gates is younger. The more I think about it, I’d also be worried about him cooperating. Plus, he stayed on with the campaign after Manafort left after the heat got too high on his Russian/Ukrainian connections.

Someone is going to get a sweet deal by talking. It’s the classic prisoner’s dilemma. It’s no coincidence that the Pappadapolous ankunfement was made. The message is very clear. Cooperate now, and you’ll be spared. Don’t cooperate, and we’re going to prosecute you to the fullest extent of the law.

BTW, Flynn is nowhere to be found. I’d guess he’s been cooperating for quite a while now. Like Manafort, any significant time could amount to a death sentence. And, he actually served in the administration AFTER inauguration. He was probably more inner circle than anyone mentioned this far.

This is going to get much more interesting- and I’d bet Mueller is far ahead of where we think he may be. His team being able to keep the Pap. Arrest and cooperation a secret all this time is very impressive.

I’m not shocked that this is all unfolding. But I am shocked that folks are surprised. The signs have been out there for a long time for those actually paying attention.
 
Especially for an office supposedly leaking like a sieve...

Can you imagine what the folks that spoke with George P. are thinking right now?

And yeah, quite an about face for a team that can’t keep leaking things ;). CO is better than this, right? I’ve seen a lot of partisan crap, but that one really caught me off guard. I guess I need to stop having such high expectations for him. That sucks.
 
Especially for an office supposedly leaking like a sieve...
Was just listening to a podcast today where they were stunned that nothing from Pappadopolis had leaked. They had been talking to him since last January, he was arrested 3 months ago, and no one had heard his name. That's pretty amazing.
 
I’m a creaking old bastard.
RA numbers staying good, thanks to the Pharma folks.
Still stiff as hell when I get up.
(That’s what she said.)

Thanks.

I’m a creaking old bastard. We knew that already, with new evidence every day . . .
RA numbers staying good, thanks to the Pharma folks. Good to know, glad to hear it.
Still stiff as hell when I get up. TMI, DWK.
(That’s what she said.) Unh hunh.
 
Was just listening to a podcast today where they were stunned that nothing from Pappadopolis had leaked. They had been talking to him since last January, he was arrested 3 months ago, and no one had heard his name. That's pretty amazing.
Particularly since we’re told Mueller’s team leaks like a sieve.
 
I get that, but ...

So far, none of the (known) Papadopoulus stuff approaches that - the guilty plea stuff never mentioned anything financial. It was just "come, let's make nice on trips to Russia." (Maybe they left that out because he was The Wire guy, and they don't want to show their financial hand...yet.)

But also the (known) indictments for stuff going back to 2006, well before the campiagn, seem like routine money-laundering stuff (as if that's routine!?) .

So - so far I'm not seeing the financial connection. Maybe that comes in the future. But if all I ever hear is that Russians flooded the Marketplace of Ideas with "Clinton SUCKS!" e-posters, I'm yawning.

Or, I could go all "Grassy Knoll" on you - what if that Russian professor was a Clinton plant? What if the Clinton's set all this up? Ya know, Bendini, Lambert & Locke is just across the river from Arkansas....





Here is the possible criminal element that you may be missing,aside from the financial aspect...From a CNN analysis...

"But "[o]n or about" April 26, 2016, Papadopoulous again met with the Professor in a London hotel. The complaint reads that the Professor told him he had "just returned from a trip to Moscow where he had met with high-level Russian government officials" where he learned that the Russians "have dirt" on Hillary Clinton; "the Russians had emails of Clinton" -- "they have thousands of emails."

"This date is important because The Washington Post only first reported on June 14, 2016, that the hackers working for the Kremlin had penetrated the servers of the Democratic National Committee. And while this correspondence, first published by WikiLeaks in late July, days before the Democratic National Convention, was distinct from Clinton's personal emails and those she turned over to the FBI as part of the investigation into her use of a personal server to conduct government business while she was secretary of state, it nonetheless caused a scandal within the Democratic Party."

The Russians essentially told Pap in August that they had illegally obtained emails thru the hacking of the computer of a US citizen.A crime.

Pap passed that info on to people within the Trump Campaign,and neither Trump's people or Pap passed the info they had regarding a CRIME by a foreign power to the FBI.That borders on being an accomplice,and may potentially set the groundwork for an actual collusion charge.The only believable reason Pap/Trump's people had for with holding that info,is that they felt it benefitted them.Back to CNN's piece...

"The Trump campaign had been informed and were therefore cognizant of Moscow's cyberespionage against Clinton long before that operation was public knowledge and before the content of it was used to influence the US presidential election.

"What makes this especially problematic for the White House is that throughout the campaign and well into his presidency when he had access to classified intelligence, Trump has either denied or doubted or downplayed Russian involvement in the DNC and Podesta breaches. He has, inter alia, wondered if China was the real culprit, or a 400-pound person sitting on their bed, or maybe no one hacked the emails at all.

In fact, Trump first suggested the DNC hacked itself to distract from the ongoing FBI case into Clinton's personal server use. In late July 2016, he also told a press conference: "Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing" from Clinton's server, a comment he later described as laced with sarcasm."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/30/opinions/how-team-trump-heard-russians-hacked-clinton-opinion-weiss/index.html
 
There are smart lawyers who think Papadopoulos was wearing a wire after reading his plea. That should scare people. A lot.
 
Still do.
The notion that an investigation of Hillary may be justified does not mean that an investigation of Trump, Junior Trump, Kushner, Manafort, Papadopolous, Gates etc. is not justified. Trump never seems to say "I know you're investigating me but let's investigate Hillary, too" but instead says only, "Don't investigate me at all. Instead, just investigate Hillary."

Hell, let's investigate everybody.
 
The notion that an investigation of Hillary may be justified does not mean that an investigation of Trump, Junior Trump, Kushner, Manafort, Papadopolous, Gates etc. is not justified. Trump never seems to say "I know you're investigating me but let's investigate Hillary, too" but instead says only, "Don't investigate me at all. Instead, just investigate Hillary."

Hell, let's investigate everybody.
It seems as though Hillary has been investigated plenty. The problem is that her opponents don't want her investigated - they want her convicted, whether or not she actually committed any crimes. I'd blame Trump for that ("Lock her up!"), but I think that mindset was already there on the right long before Trump came along.
 
It seems as though Hillary has been investigated plenty. The problem is that her opponents don't want her investigated - they want her convicted, whether or not she actually committed any crimes. I'd blame Trump for that ("Lock her up!"), but I think that mindset was already there on the right long before Trump came along.
You've really been "Blocked by Dakich since 3/28/17" ?? That's hilarious.

What did you do (allegedly) to deserve that?
 
It seems as though Hillary has been investigated plenty. The problem is that her opponents don't want her investigated - they want her convicted, whether or not she actually committed any crimes. I'd blame Trump for that ("Lock her up!"), but I think that mindset was already there on the right long before Trump came along.
You've really been "Blocked by Dakich since 3/28/17" ?? That's hilarious.

What did you do (allegedly) to deserve that?
I've been blocked longer than that and I don't even remember what I did. He blocks anyone that disagrees with him. Guarantee I didn't call him a name or anything. He's a snowflake, pretending to be a tough guy. Reminds me a bit of someone else.
 
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