it was not like Villanova had a lot of 4 and 5 star players on their roster and they were able to win.
OSU
- Thread starter neigo
- Start date
Brunson 5 star
Boothe 4 star
Bridges 4 star
hart 4 star
Jenkins 4 star
Ochefu 4 star
Arciadanco 4 star
7/8 top 8 in rotation were 4/5 stars
How is that much difference than our lineup last year because off the top of my head these are our 4 or 5 star players. They have a couple of more higher ranked players but not to far off.
Yogi
Bryant
Johnson
Williams
JBJ
Never said Crean was a better coach. He said he did not think that we are recruiting at a level to win a championship but Villanova did with less talented recruits than a UK or Duke.
Can it be done? Absolutely! Does it happen very often? No. My point was showing you that Villanova did in fact have 7 of the primary players being 4/5 stars.
Jbj didn't play for us so of our primary 8 guys...
We were looking at
1 five star
3 4 stars
3 3 star
1 0 star
If IU and Villanova recruit at a similar level, Villanova's recruiting would be considered far better.
Jay Wright wasn't elite, until he was. Best anyone could say about him was that he was the best-dressed coach in college basketball, but they were considered perennial underachievers (outside of our little Crimson bubble, most folks considered Villanova, Pitt and Texas to be prime candidates for that honor). Luckily for Villanova, they didn't prematurely pull the trigger or else this year probably doesn't happen.
Yes, IU barely beat UK...and Duke didn't come anywhere close to beating UK, even with Jefferson. Where were their fundamentals that game?
An elite 8 a final four and a national title helped him for sure...he was having some really good seasons with early exits in tourney. 33-3 and 29-5 and both years got bumped in round of 32
But, as we know, really good seasons (i.e. outright Big 10 championships) don't buy any goodwill if you go out in the Sweet 16, let alone the Round of 32. Villanova not being a blue-blood probably bought him an extra couple of years on the hot seat that Crean is not afforded.
No the elite eight, FF and six straight NCAAT appearances along with a conference title is what got him the extra years. If TC had a FF/E8 since he's been here or even if he had ever been to six straight NCAATs this place would be quite different
They had it when they dominated IU. Were you able to see that game?
His final 4 and elite 8 afforded him those extra year. Then now a national title. I'm not trying to bash crean but he needs a final 4 at iu
I agree. For long term goodwill he needs a FF. I advocated for the importance of the BIG. That said it will not keep hot seat cool for long. A FF or just an elite eight buys him goodwill.
He also just needs to be more consistent and not have some very bad years between the very good years.
In my mind the Big 10 buys Crean next year. I would say longer had 14 and 15 happened. I agree with not wanting to fire a coach to soon. Crean may just be starting a great run at IU, or he may not. In his time at IU there have been some signs of better things. There have also been some bad basketball played. For me next year is it. Make or break.
I couldn't agree more. To be fair to Crean I am bullish on next years team. That is also going to put more pressure on coach to succeed.
Maybe not - but compared to Crean he's a helluva lot better. I showed you that comparison once - you want to see it again?
The question shouldn't be whether Jay Wright is elite or not. It should be why Tom Crean - even with all the advantages that being at IU affords - can't produce better results against an even weaker schedule than Villanova plays.
The only way Wright leaves is for the NBA just like Stevens did. Saying Wright won't take another college job because he is a Nova man.
He's
He's most definitely a Nova man. But hey an extra million a year could change any bodies mind. He's making like 2.5 off the top of my head. He's also due to get PAID after this year. Maybe Nova can't or won't pay him what he deserves? Of course this is just wild speculation on my part.
6 straight tourney appearances, in and of themselves, wouldn't have done much, if anything, to quiet TC's critics or the fanbase. It's more about what he would have done with those appearances. IU fans want results to be sure. Simply making the tourney isn't satisfying enough. S16's are a start and provide short term relief, but they don't lead to long term happiness for IU fans, regardless what some on this board might state. There were MANY grumblings in Bloomington at the end of the 90's questioning if Coach Knight could still coach and if it wasn't time for IU to move on following his lack of production the latter part of the decade. The next couple of years should be very telling of whether TC will be around much longer. The program is where it should be, not where we want it to be, if he's going to prove he can succeed in the long term.
I agree that just making the tourney isnt enough, I was using that to point out the differences between Jay and TC. Jay wasnt/isn't great but he has been more successful than TC...even before the title
I disagree with you though on the program being where it should be..12th/1st/9th/7th/1st finishes isn't where I think IU should be... IU should be consistently in the top 4. This isn't football it shouldn't take this long to get the program back on solid footing
Tourney appearances don't do much. On that you are right. Which is why 14 still burns me up. The FLOOR has to be NCAA. I give Crean credit for the two BIG, but he is still making up for 14 and 15.
I wasn't saying the program is where we want it to be I was saying the program is at a stage where TC has no excuses moving forward. TC gets a lot of flack for the ups and downs at IU, a lot deservedly so but not all. Some people think this is the best TC can or will ever be, others think he can be better, yet others think he's moving in the right direction but don't have an opinion on what he will ultimately be. He's had mild success to build on and failures to criticize. At this stage of his contract the program is %110 a product of TC's making. TC has entered the "show me the money" phase of his tenure at IU. Thats what I mean when I say the program is right where it needs to be for TC to show if he will succeed or not.
If you haven't proven yourself yet to be the long term guy then those misses sure don't help the resume with the antsy fan base.
That's right, we can point to elite coaches bad seasons, but they have final fours to fall back on. Look at the Knight situation. The good years bought him a ton of good will. Even that run by Davis got him a contract. Crean hasn't built up that kind of capital with the fans. I don't dismiss the two BIG titles however. Which is why I say give him next year.
Very good post.
Still have doubts as to the ability of Crean to take the step to the next level, but wholeheartedly agree this upcoming year is critical for him.
Coach, WHY is Crean not afforded that slack?
Because (as Crean said himself when he first got the job "It's Indiana".
What Wright achieved prior to this past season was good, not great - but still better than what CTC has done in Bloomington. IU has too many better aspects of the program (resources, fertile recruiting ground, etc . .) for Crean not to have better results.
Very fair, eminently reasonable, and well written.
Not every coach is a great coach than wins a national championship. There is a lot of luck involved Jay Wright made the comment that he did less coaching this year than ever. Kevin Ollie Steve Fisher Mike Davis all made great runs doent mean their a great coach. Sometimes the coach gets blamed for things and also gets credit when they shouldnt. Wright isnt that much better coach than he was 3 years ago he just keeps growing slowly. I always thought him and CTC were very similiar coaches. Wouldnt suprise me if he doesnt make it pass the sweet sixteen next year. Im expecting at least and elite eight its time CTC takes the next step. This his best roster all the way around since he been there.
That's true.
But it should be the goal at Indiana. And if you're not that guy, then you don't belong at IU.
Tom Crean knew what the expectations were when he signed up for the gig. He asked for extra years to get "the program back on it's feet" and got them. No one has forced him to pocket the $3.5+ million he makes.
At this point there can be no more excuses - we're too young, no big men, . . . this upcoming year, if he can't get to at LEAST an Elite 8, then it's time. To honor the contract to 2020 afterwards would be foolish.
