so i guess our inane media is now dragging nikki for her answer about the civil war and leaving out slavery. our resident expert @Marvin the Martian may weigh in here but i thought her answer was fine. it was about state's rights and the reach of the fed gov. do these people think she's not aware of slavery? i mean wtf is wrong with the people in this country? the woman is a tater. born in bamberg an hour away from charleston harbor. with as insane as our population/media has become i don't know why any normal person would want to run. biden is a an ancient govtl ruin but save that we may end up with only narcissistic crazies like the viv or trump capable of putting up with the bullshit
Nikki Haley getting dragged
- Thread starter mcmurtry66
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The “States rights” vs “Slavery” debate is so asinine. It was about states rights. But in the moment, the chief right being contended over was the right to own slaves.
Both are right.
Both are right.
It was entirely about slavery, anyone saying anything more is selling something. Many states wrote declarations on their exits, all that did mentioned slavery. None mentioned the other states rights issues of the day (homestead act, land grant universities, transcontinental railroad).
The only state's right they were willing to fight for was slavery. Read Battle Cry of Freedom about the war. The holder of slaves began pushing the war years in advance. There were plans by southern states to invade Cuba and Central American country to move them to slavery to create an export market. Articles in newspapers appeared claiming abolitionists wanted to force White daughters to marry Black slaves.
That doesn't mean that for some the old line "why are you fighting" asked by a yank was answered " because you are down here" wasn't true. But the powers that be went to war over slavery. Anyone find a state mentioning land grant universities for why they seceded?
very interesting. so maybe that reluctance to come right out with slavery was something inculcated having grown up where she did etc
Maybe, but nothing can be discussed these days outside of the context of oppression. The wokism effect…
It was kinda a "trap" question for an R.
Kinda like asking a D to define a woman.
You know the truth...but politically...you gotta tap dance. 😄
Kinda like asking a D to define a woman.
You know the truth...but politically...you gotta tap dance. 😄
Her answer was dumb. As I have said several times before, she's not a bright bulb.
i don't see anything impressive about her at all. but snarl we've made a decision. and we're going to stand by it. we're going with haley. getting rid of biden has to be our ultimate goal
lol…I’ll vote for her but you and I both know she sucks. Also, I disagree with the idea that she is a shoe in to win. The base doesn’t like Haley and Democrats will vote for anyone with D. They show up for their team. Socialist tend to do that better than conservatives.
desantis has far better credentials than haley
For anyone doubting, some experts to South Carolina's articles of secession:
South Carolina Declaration of Secession (1860) | Constitution Center
National Constitution Center Historic Documents Library record for South Carolina Declaration of Secession (1860)
constitutioncenter.org
Note, careful reading complains about states not honoring the Fugitive Slave Act. So if their complaint is States Rights, why didn't Indiana have the right to allow slaves to stay? So they favored states' rights, until they didn't.
Now to be fair, the Louisianan who fired on Sumter, and was one of the first Confederate general officers, was PGT Beauregard. He was an abolitionist. So again, not everyone in the south fought for slavery but it is why states left.
Beauregard would play a key role ate Shiloh.
I am in Arkansas this week visiting, among other things, graves of ancestors. One served in the CSA Cavalry. He was a GG grandfather, dirt farmer from Paragould. I have no doubt he cared little about slavery, I am also certain he was racist as my grandparents were (my dad was born there and was Archie Bunker to the core).
I am certain that claiming the war was over slavery is not popular in bubba land.
"Ambitious as Lucifer" is the way Lincoln was once described, but it better fits Haley. She's a horrible swamp creature. But she's much superior to Biden.
Desantis is far superior to her in every regard other than the fact that he can't force himself to smile naturally when he's in front of a camera. That effectively disqualifies him from being President. TV is everything.
For me a much more interesting question is not why the war started, but why did it start in 1861 instead of 1840 or 1850? The abolitionist movement had been around for more than 100 years, before war started. That tells me “slavery” in and of itself is an incomplete answer. There were other things going on around the issue of slavery in the early 19th century that were important contributing causes.
Don’t agree. I’m all in with Haley. While DeSantis is certainly acceptable, he tends to be too churlish. We get mega-doses of that from Trump and Biden, we don’t need more of the same.
My biggest gripe about Haley is that she listens too much to her campaign handlers and staff. When she was Gov. and at the UN, she was her own person and outstanding.
It was about state's rights alright.
States rights to SLAVERY.
Haley avoided that because she doesn't want to lose the vote of white nationalists. No, not all republicans (or even most) fit that label but Haley apparently thinks it's a big enough group that she doesn't want to risk losing it.
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A couple points, the abolitionist movement grew in numbers, and in use of violence. Neither side had clean hands in Kansas (and other places). John Brown's attempt to arm slaves scared the bejeezus out of southerners, servile insurrection was a major fear. I admire the hell out of Brown's dedication but loathe his actions. Such actions were a stressor.
Slavery was being outlawed in more countries, exporting slaves became impossible. Hence why state governments came up with plans to invade foreign countries. The economy of slavery was just another stressor.
The north was getting better at avoiding the Fugitive Slave Act. Increased underground railroad activity was a stressor.
The obvious fact the north was growing far faster in population and economy. Every day a war was pushed back was a day the slave states were at a bigger disadvantage.
The Republican Party was created as an anti slave party. The Whigs straddled the line, members in both camps. Democrats were pro slavery. A new anti slave party winning was a problem, and another stressor.
When trying to decide whether the Civil War was about slavery or state rights my answer is both.
In respect to the Civil War, I often ask myself this. Given those who served in the war were mostly volunteers, why were they motivated to serve?
Can see why someone living in the South may want to preserve their way of life and not be told how to conduct affairs by the federal government. Also can see how a Northerner might find slavery to be morally wrong.
Nevertheless, are these good enough causes to put your life on the line and volunteer to kill fellow Americans?
For a more thorough explanation of why the volunteers served this piece offers an interesting explanation.
In respect to the Civil War, I often ask myself this. Given those who served in the war were mostly volunteers, why were they motivated to serve?
Can see why someone living in the South may want to preserve their way of life and not be told how to conduct affairs by the federal government. Also can see how a Northerner might find slavery to be morally wrong.
Nevertheless, are these good enough causes to put your life on the line and volunteer to kill fellow Americans?
For a more thorough explanation of why the volunteers served this piece offers an interesting explanation.
To the overall point, I don't care about what she said, no big deal. Her answer wasn't an A effort, but didn't exactly rule out slavery. I will give her a C-.
All that is. True. I think a big factor is that if the war was fought 20 or 30 years earlier, the Slave states stood a good chance of winning. The northerners did much to avoid war including tolerating slavery. I also think Andrew Jackson played an important role. He was strongly pro-union and strongly pro-slavery. A very complicated time. I don’t think slavery answers all the questions.
Typical over the top and dishonest coverage. And to be clear, she said, "of course, it was about slavery" when asked about it this morning.
There are 2 questions, why southern states seceded, and why people fought. The second has a myriad of reasons.
The first has a couple drivers, but I trust those documents several states created that mentioned slavery. It was reason #1, even though there were contributory reasons.
The term “white nationalist” doesn’t mean squat. A lot if good has been done by white guys. So what?
You are begging the question. They seceded in 1860 or thereabouts. Why not 1840?
The national polls show her with the biggest lead (4.9 points at RealClearPolitics.com) over Biden. No one is a shoe in at this point, but at this point she's the most likely to beat Biden if she's nominated.
If we're going to dump Trump, nominate Haley and beat Biden, this idea that she's not smart needs to be killed. It's a Trump invention repeated by Trumpsters and it's false.
Slavery was both one of many causes, and also the only cause. Every other contributing factor was only an issue because of slavery. States rights only mattered because of slavery. Population disparity and economic dominance of the North only mattered because of slavery.
Of all the possible causes of the war, only slavery passes the but-for test. Without slavery, the war doesn't happen. End of story.
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I’m good with her but I haven’t seen evidence of anything to get excited about, including her intelligence. She’s got a bachelors from Clemson and sc ranked amongst the worst states in the country under her governance. Now me and goat are on board bc both sides need to compromise to dump Biden and trump but she’s hardly an impressive candidate
If Haley wins the GOP nomination, we can count on your constant criticism of her, and it won't all be fair. Right?
I could just follow the excuse that trumpsters use all the time on this board. After what they did to biden, all is fair game (instead of their claim that they are getting revenge on trump's behalf).
I'm sure republicans will find any criticism of her to be unfair but I will only criticize when I think it is warranted and hopefully it is just criticism of her policies and not because she churns out scandals like Trump
It was a really dumb question. Haley answered it awkwardly. And the guys follow up shows that he intended it as some sort of “Gotcha!”.
Anyone that thinks this is a big deal or some sort of indictment on Haley is a moron.
Anyone that thinks this is a big deal or some sort of indictment on Haley is a moron.
Slavery was always an issue subject to serious debate. I think Slavery would have been negotiated out of existence at some point. There were many serious proposals along those lines. Then came Dred Scott. If the Dred Scott case gone the other way, IMO there would have been a descent chance slavery would have ended without war.
lol!
The Democrats portrayed Every GOP presidential candidate since Ike has a racist. Haley will be no exception.
I think she just had a brain spasm. Probably thought the person was trying to trap her into something. I'm betting if she had a do over she'd instantly mention slavery as the cause of the civil. It was and she is seemingly intelligent person.
No doubt she is a smart person, which is why the omission was more likely calculated/planned. She was asked the question based on her previous omission of slavery being the cause and she initially doubled down before finally caving but being sure to list multiple other questionable causes in the process.
The person probably was trying to trap her. There is no other reason to ask the question.
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