Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, or they just sound like lunatic ramblings. He hasn't provided extraordinary proof. I'm not sure he's even reached the preponderance of the evidence bar.
Musk/Twitter Document Dump
- Thread starter stollcpa
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anon_mya1phvcpf5x4
Guest
What has he posted that has been specific enough to mean anything?
What exactly was censored?
People need to put up or shut up. It is like the bs of having all this evidence of voter fraud but never showing it.
He provides quite a bit of detail on the extent of the interaction between the government and twitter
And zero evidence that it was some grand government program of censorship. Everything he provides paints a picture of government agents worried about foreign election interference.
Says you and says him. But he hasn't provided the evidence to back it up.
Oh, so we have to wait for Twitter employees and the FBI to say that’s we’re doing. Like that’s going to happen in a million years.
As I said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
At the very least, they require some evidence. What has been provided so far?
I'd say the more realistic objective was to prevent a repeat from 2016, when the FBI played an inordinate role in determining the outcome of the election...
And exactly who was the government? In 2016 the Dems controlled the Executive branch and the FBI dropped the bombshell announcement that they were reopening the Clinton emails in response to the Wiener laptop about 3 weeks prior to the election. The "investigation" was a total nothingburger, but millions of people went to the polls (or stayed home) convinced there had to be a "there" there. Because the FBI said so...
So now in 2020 the GOP controls the Executive Branch and some really silly people were/are butthurt the scenario wasn't repeated. You tell us it documents the extent of the "interaction" between Twitter and the "government" But in reality as it pertains to the Biden campaign, the most you can say is it highlights the extent of interaction between Twitter and a political party. MT has said the extent of the "requests" from the Biden people was to not allow nude pics of his son...
BTW, MT also said that there were interactions between Twitter and the Trump Campaign- you know the actual Government. He's made it clear that Elon imposed restrictions on both He and Bari, and to her limited credit Bari at least called out Elon over some issue which pissed him off. But we've yet to hear what issues Team Trump raised with Twitter, and you seem to have no interest in what the actual Government was interested in requiring of Twitter...
So when did the FBI become (in the wingnut perspective) the tool of the "Liberal left"? One would think if the FBI was so "leftist" that they could at least find actual Dems to occupy positions of leadership rather than lifelong Pubs like Comey, Mueller, McCabe, Wray.
I mean granted these folks are not as draconian as someone like Hoover, or some of the traditional types that led the FBI. But there's a pretty distinct difference between mainline GOP business types who came up thru the LEO/military ranks (Comey, Mueller, McCabe) and Trump's attempt to paint them as radical socialists. Thinking Trump is an autocratic egotist who has no qualms about trampling the Constitution doesn't make you a bad person. It just makes you normal...
Evidence is so passe. Now all that's needed is speculation and conjecture.
The next time you get annoyed at a Trumper as they continue to deny reality, take a short walk to the nearest bathroom and take a look in a mirror. You’re cut from the same cloth. The only difference is they’re cooler to drink beer with (actually I might enjoy having a beer with you more).
Puhlease. It's not a denial of reality to simply ask for evidence.
Taibbi has provided a ton of evidence that the FBI, political operatives, and perhaps other government officials and agencies spent waaaaaaaaaay too much time concerned with what was being posted on Twitter, and Twitter was waaaaaaaaay too concerned with what these folks had to say. Okay.
He's provided no evidence at all of some program of censorship. Every example he's posted has been about electoral misinformation (or perhaps health misinformation in some cases, I can't remember) and its potential ties to foreign actors.
If this was really all about censorship, fine, show me the proof.
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anon_mya1phvcpf5x4
Guest
So we can all just start making accusations without evidence?
Darn censorship is keeping the homophobes from being able to see hunter's dick pic.
We know that the fbi warned Twitter about a possible “hack and leak” campaign involving Hunter Biden in the run up to the 2020 election. That was in October of 2020. That was part of the reasoning Twitter used to block the story and lock the New York Post out after the laptop story broke.
We also know that the fbi knew that the Biden laptop story was legit and that it involved no hacking. Hell, they were in possession of the laptop and had been since December of 2019.
So tell me, how can that be seen as anything but election interference by the fbi?
Honest question, I’m not being snarky.
Good question. If the FBI team knew the Post's story was accurate and dishonestly told Twitter, et al., that it was not accurate, but instead the product of foreign misinformation, then I think that's a pretty solid piece of evidence of some political shenanigans by at least part of the FBI. Not definitive, and not enough on its own to justify claims of government censorship, but certainly enough to raise eyebrows. The FBI is a big place. It's quite possible that within an otherwise decent organization, there are some bad actors. It's also possible that the entire FBI is infected from the top down with political meddlers trying to push American elections in whatever way they think benefits them. But I haven't seen the evidence yet to back up such an extreme conclusion.
If it's really as bad as Taibbi, Musk, and others are trying to make it out to be, then why can't Taibbi provide the goods? Is Musk holding back, and if so, why? Because if this is all they've got, overall, it's a pretty big wet fart, at best.
Another possibility: even if the FBI felt the reporting in the Post was largely accurate, they still might have honestly believed that the story was planted by foreign actors to push the electorate in a certain way. Especially in the aftermath of 2016, they might have been very sensitive to this possibility. Now, if that's the case, I personally do not believe it would justify the FBI asking Twitter to bury the story, but I also don't think it would rise to the level of "election interference by the FBI."
Ultimately, what we're arguing about here are motives. Those who want to argue that the motive of the FBI is essentially a giant Deep State conspiracy in real life, a sort of government bureaucrat-run Illuminati, well, that's a pretty radical claim. It might be true, but I need a helluva lot more than we've seen so far to buy into it.
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
Guest
Are you saying that govt censorship (or collusion with a private party to limit information of viewpoints) is O.K. as long as the motive is a good one? Who determines what is a good motive and what is a bad one?
Let me answer your questions with questions: If the FBI has reason to believe some widely-distributed story is genuinely foreign propaganda intended to affect our elections, do you think it's proper for the FBI to warn Twitter about it, and do you think it's reasonable for Twitter to suppress the story?
Edit: to be clear, though, I'm not defending any particular motives, as much as I'm pointing out that Taibbi hasn't remotely come close to proving the motives he's espousing.
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anon_mya1phvcpf5x4
Guest
Is telling people not to yell fire in a crowded theater censorship?
They have to be allowed to draw a line somewhere.
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
Guest
Re your questions, I think they are really difficult but I lean towards allowing the distribution and then let the FBI or whoever produce the evidence showing it is foreign propaganda and let people decide. Fight speech with speech.
Also, I have a problem with the whole ad hominem assumption of the "problem." Even Vlad Putin might have some correct notions (although, I agree, that wrapping up his ideas in a fake account or lots of bots is fraud and needs to somehow be combatted).
But I recognize my ideas are oh-so 20th Century. Maybe social media has so altered the fabric of democracy that we need to save ourselves from this kind of behavior. But if so, I think we also have to also start questioning the usefulness of our "democracy" if it can be hacked in this way.
On your last point, what I'm trying to point out is that the motives don't matter. Taibbi is not the brightest bulb out there, by the way (although he sometimes gets it right). He's always been prone to hyperbole over deep thinking, going back to his coverage of MBS fallout of '08. But he is sometimes fun to read.
Read the information posted on Twitter.
Such bullshit for you lefties to keep bring up Hunter’s dick picture. I’ve only heard lefties fixated about dick pics.
I’ve heard this mentioned a few times. What’s the dick pic stuff with hunter?. Was he all hopped up on goofballs firin off dick pics? Ignoring the glass houses what happened? One of these no goods try and make some money off them?
I agree these are hard questions. I'm not as much of a free speech absolutist as I used to be. I do think there's a difference between viewpoint speech and fact speech. That is, I think it's far more important to protect dissenting viewpoints than it is to protect false facts. That said, I don't really want the government making those calls. I'm less bothered by the government sharing their opinion with media platforms, and letting those platforms make the calls, but only slightly so - even the biggest company is likely to see government suggestions as something slightly stronger than mere suggestions.
To add another wrinkle that you alluded to, I'm even less bothered by suppressing foreign propaganda than I am suppressing American public discourse. And it has nothing to do with whether or not Putin might get some things right once in a while. It's all to do with the fact that I doubt Putin ever has our best interests in mind, and I'm glad the CIA and FBI are keeping a watchful eye on what he's disseminating.
Long story short, yes, I do think motive matters, but I don't think motive offers a bright line distinction between what is and is not appropriate government action.
I agree Taibbi isn't a deep thinker. He is pretty full of himself, though, so that makes him even tougher to stomach.
IIRC, back when data from his laptop first leaked online, and Twitter started doing their suppression, at least some of what people were spreading around were pics of Hunter in, ah, a state of undress. But I could be wrong.
I don’t know what the dick pics are. One of the libs on here can explain, I am sure.
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anon_mya1phvcpf5x4
Guest
I found a source that says he is unbiased, so he must be. He mentions seeing the deleted Tweets and yes, they are a nude Hunter Biden.
Heck one of the conservatives here has bragged about seeing Hunter's anus.
Here is the link to the story in the unbiased review
- some with an unidentified female subject, which, since it’s not authorized by the parties in the photograph, would be against the Terms of Service. These were not, as far as I can tell, about the New York Post laptop story, but photographs derived from the laptop files.
- October 25, 2020: Two more tweets are deleted the next day, one from actor James Woods. It reads “Feet don’t fail me now” (that’s not why it got deleted) with a photo of Hunter Biden smoking a crack pipe while getting some adult services done to his toes. The photo is dressed up as a Joe Biden campaign ad, “I’m on Team Toe.” Although the photo is blurred, it still shows enough to violate the terms of service and for me to want to wash out my eyes – repeatedly.
Twitter Files explained: unbiased review of the Hunter Biden laptop story's timeline
Sunday evening read: My painstakingly unbiased review of the facts surrounding the newly revealed "Twitter Files" and a complete timeline of events
www.theshortcut.com
Here is the comment about Hunter's butt:
Post in thread 'SCOTUS Trump Tax Returns' https://indiana.forums.rivals.com/threads/scotus-trump-tax-returns.226285/post-3602404
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
Guest
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
Guest
Oh aweet jesus people, err'body Saw the pick of Hunter, ankles in the air, spread eagle, naked. I don't and never had tweeted, but I even saw it.
Yeah, reporting facts always sounds loony to your side
What is it about his report you disagree with?
Goat never likes it when what conservatives have been saying for years has been proved to be true.
He's honestly incapable of processing the truth.
All I know for sure is our President says Hunter’s the most intelligent man he knows. Says a lot about our President. Same President that appoints this thing:I found a source that says he is unbiased, so he must be. He mentions seeing the deleted Tweets and yes, they are a nude Hunter Biden.
Heck one of the conservatives here has bragged about seeing Hunter's anus.
Here is the link to the story in the unbiased review
- some with an unidentified female subject, which, since it’s not authorized by the parties in the photograph, would be against the Terms of Service. These were not, as far as I can tell, about the New York Post laptop story, but photographs derived from the laptop files.
- October 25, 2020: Two more tweets are deleted the next day, one from actor James Woods. It reads “Feet don’t fail me now” (that’s not why it got deleted) with a photo of Hunter Biden smoking a crack pipe while getting some adult services done to his toes. The photo is dressed up as a Joe Biden campaign ad, “I’m on Team Toe.” Although the photo is blurred, it still shows enough to violate the terms of service and for me to want to wash out my eyes – repeatedly.
Twitter Files explained: unbiased review of the Hunter Biden laptop story's timeline
Sunday evening read: My painstakingly unbiased review of the facts surrounding the newly revealed "Twitter Files" and a complete timeline of events
Here is the comment about Hunter's butt:
Post in thread 'SCOTUS Trump Tax Returns' https://indiana.forums.rivals.com/threads/scotus-trump-tax-returns.226285/post-3602404
Non-binary Biden nuclear official Sam Brinton fired after multiple luggage theft charges: reports
The Department of Energy has fired Sam Brinton, a top nuclear waste official who happens to be non-binary and has been accused in a string of luggage thefts, according to reports.
nypost.com
Maybe read his tweets sometimes, Marvin. It will save you from asking stupid questions.
Goat is so divorced from reality, it's sad. Not that he ever was really operating in the real world.
That's the point, Grover - your fellow morons aren't the onces being censored.
Duh.
