Basically what a lot of people have been saying in this threadAnother voice of reason:
http://collegebasketball.nbcsports....nt-gelon-wrong-getting-cut-is-part-of-sports/
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Basically what a lot of people have been saying in this threadAnother voice of reason:
http://collegebasketball.nbcsports....nt-gelon-wrong-getting-cut-is-part-of-sports/
You finally admit something. Surprising, but I commend you for it.You're right, it only says they can't take your scholarship away for athletic reasons, which is why it's such an empty "promise". So, why wasn't he simply told at the outset he couldn't stay on the team if no such obligation exists on the part of IU?
Why didn't he simply tell him he was, under no uncertain terms, off the team? Why did Grant think the door was open for him to return, as he obviously did? Why would Miller hesitate, in any way, to be brutally honest with him
How brutal? How about "You're not on the team anymore" for starters? Why leave any doubt in the kid's mind as to his status?You finally admit something. Surprising, but I commend you for it.
In Archie's mind, he likely did feel he had indicated Grant would no longer be part or the team when he said "Youi're not in our plans".
Just how brutal is Miller supposed to be?
Grant never should have been at IU. Period. He had a good showing in Vegas shooting the ball in front of a lot of coaches, including Crean. But anyone who gave a honest appraisal of the kid's abilities knew he was out of his league. He had one skill - shooting. The rest of his game was entry-level M.A.C. at best.
When Crown Point played Warren Central in the Forum Tip-Off Classic, the Warriors held Gelon to 2 points. TWO. That should have been an immediate red flag. Then in the Indiana Sr/Jr All-Star games (does anyone seriously think Gelon is an All-Star had Gelon not been committed to IU?) Grant barely got off the bench against the Juniors - in games the organizers look to SHOWCASE Indiana recruits.
Archie handled this the best that could be expected. Him telling Grant "You're not in our plans" was brutal enough - for both player AND coach.
Gelon knew the risk? Was he privy to the Crean firing before anybody else? Why would he think he wouldn't be part of the team, especially after Miller came out and said that these were my guys??This was a poor decision by TC not AM. Miller laid out the truth that GG HAD to understand. Frankly, the Gelons knew the risks and likely outcomes when they accepted.
GG now had the choice of playing for a low level program with low level academic opportunity or play high level rec ball while earning a world class degree free of charge. I don't know the Gelon family, but the pattern here makes one wonder.
Not to quibble too much, I hope, but I think you're closer to the mark than many of the others.GG could've kept his scholarship if he had stayed at IU. They weren't taking that away. They just told him he wouldn't be on the team. So they were honoring the scholarship offer. GG choose to reject that option.
Not to quibble too much, I hope, but I think you're closer to the mark than many of the others.
I looked this stuff up a couple years ago and, as I recall, the Indiana Athlete Bill of Rights is still subject to the NCAA (ahem) rules. Going from memory only, I recall that some NCAA rules restrict the type of academic aid that can be awarded subsequently to a player who previously received an athletic scholarship but was then dropped from a team. This would apply to Grant's situation as I remember the rule.
Some of the posters have forgotten how to put on their own underwear, because they are so busy arguing about the Athlete Bill of Rights they totally failed to review the controlling NCAA rules (which they probably didn't even think about).
No of course not, since I didn't say that.Do you really think IU's legal arm didn't closely review all applicable rules to insure the BoR wouldn't be affected adversely by NCAA scrutiny? Glass is an attorney, afterall. That was likely the first thing he thought about.
Gelon knew the risk? Was he privy to the Crean firing before anybody else? Why would he think he wouldn't be part of the team, especially after Miller came out and said that these were my guys??
Broilee fans need to look at their bball team during PorkChop's first 3 seasons and the players that he ran off. Oh, and those players did not have the option of staying on with a full ride after being porkchopped. I count 6 that porky ran off. Broilees need to look in the mirror before the holier than thou statements on the IU board. Archie did nothing but what needed to be done. GG left in early May. The scholarship was not filled until August by Race Thompson.Gelon knew the risk? Was he privy to the Crean firing before anybody else? Why would he think he wouldn't be part of the team, especially after Miller came out and said that these were my guys??
No of course not, since I didn't say that.
My post was not about what Glass did but was about the failure of many posts on this increasingly-useless board to interpret the Bill of Rights within the context of the controlling NCAA rules for awarding academic financial aid to former prayers.
How brutal? How about "You're not on the team anymore" for starters? Why leave any doubt in the kid's mind as to his status?
Now it's "rumors"? I thought it was "whispers"?The same Hades that prevents you from admitting you knew nothing about the rumors of Cal in the 90's, or the one's that stupidly believed ES, whom you allegedly know? That Hades? Lol.
No of course not, since I didn't say that.
My post was not about what Glass did but was about the failure of many posts on this increasingly-useless board to interpret the Bill of Rights within the context of the controlling NCAA rules for awarding academic financial aid to former prayers.
It's not my job to educate you on how to reason and use logic or what ethics is. Don't you have parents?derp??? really???
It's not my job to educate you on how to reason and use logic or what ethics is. Don't you have parents?
It's the same as having a GF before getting divorced and after. All spots eventually get filled, but pre-filling the spot is basically frowned upon and is seen as lacking ethical integrity.
If you couldn't reason that out yourself you're either arguing to just argue or can't reason beyond emotion, (and are really just stating your love for Crean and nothing else) either way you deserved the derp.
It stands....
Very good summation - esp the part about holding Archie accountable going forward.I agree with a number of perspectives in this thread:
1.) Grant was over his head at IU
2.) Crean would have sent him packing had he been around
3.) Archie was forthright with Grant
4.) I see this as a one-time free pass for Archie. He did not recruit these guys and he sees a big mistake in talent level. I will hold Archie accountable going forward, but he made a quick correction and it was harsh for one guy- Grant Gelon. I do feel for the kid, but in 3 years he will be celebrating senior night somewhere and will at least perhaps be glad that he was able to get his new career started somewhere else without being dragged through the mud for one or more seasons.
5.) My expectation is for Miller to keep everyone else now that he has his team. Going forward, it is on him. If he recruits a kid who doesn't meet his expectations, he needs to honor his recruiting commitment to the kid.
The athlete Bill of Rights thing should be used as an insurance policy, not as a way to "Crean" players annually. Let's hope Archie makes good recruiting choices. I think he will from what I've seen so far.
I've turned this over in my head, and I can't get over how getting an IU scholarship offer seems to have totally bent all the Gelons out of whack. How much did basketball mean to Grant before the offer? How good did he think he was? Now, having been struck by Creanian lightning, he has to spurn a free ride to pursue his basketball dreams? Does he think he is going to play professionally? Didn't his parents read about flukey Crean offers? Did it ever occur to them that Grant's scholarship in part might be the reason Crean got canned? (Granted, a small part)Vert good summation - esp the part about holding Archie accountable going forward.
Gelon told the media he didn't feel nervous when Miller got the job because he told all the team "you're my guys now". Sorry, Grant, but what was he supposed to tell you? "You're not in our plans"? - BEFORE he had a chance to evaluate you?
The thing that impresses me most about this is Archie and staff did their evaluation, saw Gelon didn't have the necessary skills to be a player at this level and told him so. If this was a player that Archie recruited it would be different, because evaluation of recruits is a part of the head coaching job. In this case, he simply did what needed to be done.
I agree with a number of perspectives in this thread:
1.) Grant was over his head at IU
2.) Crean would have sent him packing had he been around
3.) Archie was forthright with Grant
4.) I see this as a one-time free pass for Archie. He did not recruit these guys and he sees a big mistake in talent level. I will hold Archie accountable going forward, but he made a quick correction and it was harsh for one guy- Grant Gelon. I do feel for the kid, but in 3 years he will be celebrating senior night somewhere and will at least perhaps be glad that he was able to get his new career started somewhere else without being dragged through the mud for one or more seasons.
5.) My expectation is for Miller to keep everyone else now that he has his team. Going forward, it is on him. If he recruits a kid who doesn't meet his expectations, he needs to honor his recruiting commitment to the kid.
The athlete Bill of Rights thing should be used as an insurance policy, not as a way to "Crean" players annually. Let's hope Archie makes good recruiting choices. I think he will from what I've seen so far.
Now it's "rumors"? I thought it was "whispers"?
Funny how so many in the media LOVE to slam Calipari, yet NONE (and I mean NONE) have EVER made any accusations about Cal PRIOR TO the Marcus Camby mess; certainly from the summer of 1995 (when Cal hired Eddie) or before. IF that is not accurate, where are all the reports of these "rumors" ( or "whispers", or whatever the hell you wanna call them)? So many people DYING TO SLING MUD on Calipari, yet no one (cept you ) has ever done so.
So what were these rumors? Who said em? C'mon, Dan, tell us.
Dan - as in Dakich.Dan? Ordfans name is Dan?
I've turned this over in my head, and I can't get over how getting an IU scholarship offer seems to have totally bent all the Gelons out of whack. How much did basketball mean to Grant before the offer? How good did he think he was? Now, having been struck by Creanian lightning, he has to spurn a free ride to pursue his basketball dreams? Does he think he is going to play professionally? Didn't his parents read about flukey Crean offers? Did it ever occur to them that Grant's scholarship in part might be the reason Crean got canned? (Granted, a small part)
Yes, I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. I realize you didn't mention FG. I guess I'm not understanding (nothing new for me). Perhaps my understanding of the ABoR is too simple. But to me it's this: The ABoR guarantees a scholarship; it doesn't not guarantee a roster slot. I don't believe I've read how they're funded or where those funds come from. But is my interpretation incorrect?
Vert good summation - esp the part about holding Archie accountable going forward.
Gelon told the media he didn't feel nervous when Miller got the job because he told all the team "you're my guys now". Sorry, Grant, but what was he supposed to tell you? "You're not in our plans"? - BEFORE he had a chance to evaluate you?
The thing that impresses me most about this is Archie and staff did their evaluation, saw Gelon didn't have the necessary skills to be a player at this level and told him so. If this was a player that Archie recruited it would be different, because evaluation of recruits is a part of the head coaching job. In this case, he simply did what needed to be done.
This isn't Creaning though. Creaning happens after over committing. This happened with roster spots still open. Yes, there's a difference.
Dan - as in Dakich.
Can't prove it, but wouldn't surprise me.
Probably not - but, hey, how many names has he used? Why can't I give him/her/it one???Ehhh I struggle with that. Regardless of your opinion of DD, it is impossible for me to believe that he would be so insecure or frankly reckless with his career to spend his day embarassing himself by attacking all posters and all things IU to the extent of being banned so many times and then lying over and over about his very existence.
A network radio host, ESPN commentator former IU coach with kids and a wife out in the community having a dual life as one of the worst internet trolls around? Being used to mop the floors on a daily basis?
It's not Jared Fogle level, but still Toigh to believe.
What show was that on?interesting report from local sports talk radio where Rabjohns reported on GG. He reported that GG met with CAM as year end wrap up. GG said he thought he should have gotten more playing time and expected more this year. CAM told him it probably wasn't going to happen. Sounds like he got bad advice to ask for his release thinking it would make CAM change his mind. He got what he asked for. Also reported his mother was over involved with other schools, trashing IU and coaching staff and that's one of the reasons he didn't get better offers. They didn't want to deal with over involved parent who felt her son is much better than he is. He also said IU tried to get him into mid/low level D1 schools, D2 and 3, NAIA. Most were not interested or lost interest when mother got involved.
All you did was deflect what I said. It's not about Painter. It's about Miller saying that these are my guys and then telling Gelon to get lost.Broilee fans need to look at their bball team during PorkChop's first 3 seasons and the players that he ran off. Oh, and those players did not have the option of staying on with a full ride after being porkchopped. I count 6 that porky ran off. Broilees need to look in the mirror before the holier than thou statements on the IU board. Archie did nothing but what needed to be done. GG left in early May. The scholarship was not filled until August by Race Thompson.
Ask my friends Jake and Jad about their encounter with CS. He stepped way past his level of "expertise" and got taken to the shed over something most IU fans know well.Probably not - but, hey, how many names has he used? Why can't I give him/her/it one???
No, Dakich posts on the premium board as fredsbeirhaus (sic). In all seriousness, he's even more obnoxious.Dan - as in Dakich.
Can't prove it, but wouldn't surprise me.
DD actually does that on the premium board. Other than the being banned over and over again thing, he literally does all of that.Ehhh I struggle with that. Regardless of your opinion of DD, it is impossible for me to believe that he would be so insecure or frankly reckless with his career to spend his day embarassing himself by attacking all posters and all things IU to the extent of being banned so many times and then lying over and over about his very existence.
A network radio host, ESPN commentator former IU coach with kids and a wife out in the community having a dual life as one of the worst internet trolls around? Being used to mop the floors on a daily basis?
It's not Jared Fogle level, but still Toigh to believe.
I heard Rabjohn on the Kent Sterling show last nightWhat show was that on?