I hear ya - I feel bad for Grant.
But put the blame squarely where it lies - on Crean. He created the mess Archie had to clean up.
Mr. Gelon
- Thread starter justjames
- Start date
But put the blame squarely where it lies - on Crean. He created the mess Archie had to clean up.
He never should have been offered a scholarship. It is an unfortunate mistake Crean made that CAM had to take care of. It was unlikely he would ever get much playing time, but he took a chance in coming to IU. I understand Grant and his parents are disappointed. I would have kept that story private.
I call B.S. on this one.
Just WHO under the the Knight era did RMK find a role for ( who was similar to Gelon)? Be honest.
Dumb
Every program creans now and then but crean creaned so much his name became the word for it.
That's what folks took issue with
what a pathetic bunch of responses. (with a few exceptions).
schollies aren't the property of coaches, and kids can't sign with any coach.
kids can only sign with a school, and only the school can grant a scholly.
ask any kid who wants to transfer, even with a great reason. (like maybe he'd like to play under a better coach, or go to a better school).
yes, this has happened before and will happen again, both at IU and elsewhere.
IU's, Glass's, and Crean's legacy, is that this sht now happens more often.
but let's not kid ourselves that every less talented kid is kicked off every team because said school decides they'd rather give the scholly to someone else.
coaches and schools keep less talented kids who mostly ride the bench for 4 yrs all the time, when the scholly could arguably go to a better player. (and for all his faults, RMK had many kids for 4 yrs when he could have taken it away, and given it to another kid with more talent).
just because someone or some institution sees something as possibly working in their own best self interests, doesn't in of itself make that otherwise slimy and disloyal action ok.
and if a school can cut a kid and turn around and give that scholly to another kid for immediate return, then kids should have the same ability to pursue upgrading their options as well, and transfer at will without having to sit out a full yr, anytime they see that as possibly being in their best self interests. (and every poster who backs IU's actions here would rain down a sht storm on the NCAA for allowing this, and on any kid as a disloyal traitor who took them up on it).
IU has enough black eyes at the moment, some deliberate, some from poor oversight, (of which the whole "Creaning" thing is certainly one that falls under "deliberate"), and doesn't need to deliberately add to the total.
under the "wanting to have your cake and eat it too" heading, imo Glass's decision to offer to fund a kid's IU education if said kid is "Creaned", while having some obvious merit, is also a backhanded way of enabling this bad behavior, and then trying to escape accountability for said actions by offering something to the dumped kid that costs Glass and the dept absolutely nothing, and for which they'll rarely have to ever make good on anyway in these "Creaning" cases.
on a final note, schools always will have kids that ride the bench most of their careers, and many still field great teams despite the fact that there are less talented players on the team.
many schools have even fielded excellent teams with less than 13 recruited players on scholly.
this is nothing more than further tarnishing IU's and Glass's word and reputation, because doing so "might", but certainly no guarantees, be perceived by the current administration as maybe in IU's short term best self interests.
unfortunate that standing by your word, loyalty, and doing the right thing, even though being in a high visibility leadership position at a major state educational institution, aren't seen by the current administration as possibly also being in it's best long term self interests.
schollies aren't the property of coaches, and kids can't sign with any coach.
kids can only sign with a school, and only the school can grant a scholly.
ask any kid who wants to transfer, even with a great reason. (like maybe he'd like to play under a better coach, or go to a better school).
yes, this has happened before and will happen again, both at IU and elsewhere.
IU's, Glass's, and Crean's legacy, is that this sht now happens more often.
but let's not kid ourselves that every less talented kid is kicked off every team because said school decides they'd rather give the scholly to someone else.
coaches and schools keep less talented kids who mostly ride the bench for 4 yrs all the time, when the scholly could arguably go to a better player. (and for all his faults, RMK had many kids for 4 yrs when he could have taken it away, and given it to another kid with more talent).
just because someone or some institution sees something as possibly working in their own best self interests, doesn't in of itself make that otherwise slimy and disloyal action ok.
and if a school can cut a kid and turn around and give that scholly to another kid for immediate return, then kids should have the same ability to pursue upgrading their options as well, and transfer at will without having to sit out a full yr, anytime they see that as possibly being in their best self interests. (and every poster who backs IU's actions here would rain down a sht storm on the NCAA for allowing this, and on any kid as a disloyal traitor who took them up on it).
IU has enough black eyes at the moment, some deliberate, some from poor oversight, (of which the whole "Creaning" thing is certainly one that falls under "deliberate"), and doesn't need to deliberately add to the total.
under the "wanting to have your cake and eat it too" heading, imo Glass's decision to offer to fund a kid's IU education if said kid is "Creaned", while having some obvious merit, is also a backhanded way of enabling this bad behavior, and then trying to escape accountability for said actions by offering something to the dumped kid that costs Glass and the dept absolutely nothing, and for which they'll rarely have to ever make good on anyway in these "Creaning" cases.
on a final note, schools always will have kids that ride the bench most of their careers, and many still field great teams despite the fact that there are less talented players on the team.
many schools have even fielded excellent teams with less than 13 recruited players on scholly.
this is nothing more than further tarnishing IU's and Glass's word and reputation, because doing so "might", but certainly no guarantees, be perceived by the current administration as maybe in IU's short term best self interests.
unfortunate that standing by your word, loyalty, and doing the right thing, even though being in a high visibility leadership position at a major state educational institution, aren't seen by the current administration as possibly also being in it's best long term self interests.
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I assume you were a RMK fan and probably did not have a problem when he ran off players and told them they should transfer. These players come to play for the coach and not the school and they pick the school because of who is coaching not academics.
Also coaches are the ones that offer the scholarship and does not have anything to do with the academic people. You actually think the coach has to get the OK who to offer a scholarship to. As long as they are qualified the academic people won't tell a coach who they can offer.
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You've been asked several times to name the players Knight ran off. Do you know actual names or are you speaking generically?
Haha
Those who can't see the diff also won't see the diff in our SOS or defense.
Willfully ignorant is no way to go through life, bro! But keep toting crean's cross if it makes you feel righteous or whatever.
So I suppose CAM should have lied to the kid and led him to believe that he had a chance to contribute? That would have been disgraceful. He was given a dose of reality, so he could move on. If he feels he was slighted, he should go forward with the proverbial "Chip on the Shoulder" as motivation to proved those who doubted him wrong.
Good point, but CAM could have been aware of Gelon from watching Indiana Elite and surprised he was offered by IU. There is a player as good as Gelon on nearly every Indiana high school team.
Miller didn't recruit Gelon, and he was honest about GG's future with the program. Assuming GG wanted to see playing time at IU then Miller did him a huge service by letting him know that wasn't going to happen.
Archie did not do anything but tell GG he would not play much, if at all. GG asked for the release. GG was NOT a D1 player. Knight would NOT have found a role for him. Knight would have done the same as Archie did..Crean is the knucklehead on this situation. State Fair Community College was his next best option, which says it all.
Dude, to reply to a post:
1. Click the Reply button within and at the bottom of the post you wish to reply to.
2. Type your reply.
3. Click the Post Reply button.
Just your perspective.
Your opinion means no more than mine.
Someone is dumb, but it's not me.
It has been reported many times that RMK sat down at the end of each season to tell players where they stood in the program. I don't have any names but to think that every player who transferred under RMK did it just for lack of playing time is naïve. People ask you all the time to prove what you say but never do and now you are telling others to do what you can't do.
How about players like Jeff Oliphant, Chuck Franz, Magnus Palokowski and I can come up with more players who were not highly rated who RMK brought in.
From 1983-2000, only 26 of Knight's 63 recruits were ranked in the Top 75 (according to Hoop Scoop). 16 of the 26 were McD AA's
okay, little sparrow, keep believing that Crean's insane player turnover is the same as MIller telling an NAIA-level kid that we don't have a place on the court for him at IU.
I'll believe what I believe, little pigeon, & you can continue to believe what you believe.
You are the one that looks stupid.
I've always supported what I've said. Just wanted to see if you had specifics or if you were just being generic.
I feel for the kid but I am glad CAM was honest and did the best thing for the program. If this is the worst thing that ever happens to Grant he will have lived a very blessed life.
Literally nothing that you said in that post is even remotely true.
First of all, nepotism is not a valuable quality. Second, he did this all the time. Coaches have meetings one on one with players at the end of the year to tell them where they stand and what the future holds. You don't remember all the transfers we had?
He had the opportunity to stay on scholarship for the next three years, and he chose to leave. Don't get all over Archie Miller for GG giving up a scholarship.
I don't know why we are even talking about this so much. GG could've stayed here and had a full ride for the next three years, and he chose to leave to go play basketball at State Fair community college. They were upfront with him about his future on the basketball team, and he could've stayed here on a full scholarship. He did not.
Greg Graham, Pat Graham, Calbert Cheney, Steve Eyl, Lawrence Funderburke all in one class and all in top 40. He rarely recruited kids out of the top 100. No, I'm not pulling it out of my butt
Yes, you are.
"From 1983-2000, only 26 of Knight's 63 recruits were ranked in the Top 75 (according to Hoop Scoop). 16 of the 26 were McD AA's" - this very thread
Disgraceful? They told him what his role would be on the team, which is completely accurate, and he could've stayed at IU on a full ride for the next three years. He turned that down to go to State Fair CC.
The kid chose to give up a full scholarship because he wanted to go play basketball at State Fair community college. They were not yanking his scholarship. Good gracious, people.
Your first mistake is trying to act like you know what you are talking about. Steve Eyl was not in the class with those other players and graduated in 88. A real Iu fan would remember Eyl helping beat UNLV with a late steal and dunk to preserve the win in the final 4 in 1987. Also Eyl was never a top 40 recruit and was probably a 3 star recruit.
Yep, just like the roles he found for Delray Brooks, Tom Coverdale and I'm sure a few others I can't remember.
I saw GG play his senior year and he wasn't even the best player on his HS team.
