Mr. Gelon
- Thread starter justjames
- Start date
You finally admit something. Surprising, but I commend you for it.
In Archie's mind, he likely did feel he had indicated Grant would no longer be part or the team when he said "Youi're not in our plans".
Just how brutal is Miller supposed to be?
Grant never should have been at IU. Period. He had a good showing in Vegas shooting the ball in front of a lot of coaches, including Crean. But anyone who gave a honest appraisal of the kid's abilities knew he was out of his league. He had one skill - shooting. The rest of his game was entry-level M.A.C. at best.
When Crown Point played Warren Central in the Forum Tip-Off Classic, the Warriors held Gelon to 2 points. TWO. That should have been an immediate red flag. Then in the Indiana Sr/Jr All-Star games (does anyone seriously think Gelon is an All-Star had Gelon not been committed to IU?) Grant barely got off the bench against the Juniors - in games the organizers look to SHOWCASE Indiana recruits.
Archie handled this the best that could be expected. Him telling Grant "You're not in our plans" was brutal enough - for both player AND coach.
How brutal? How about "You're not on the team anymore" for starters? Why leave any doubt in the kid's mind as to his status?You finally admit something. Surprising, but I commend you for it.
In Archie's mind, he likely did feel he had indicated Grant would no longer be part or the team when he said "Youi're not in our plans".
Just how brutal is Miller supposed to be?
Grant never should have been at IU. Period. He had a good showing in Vegas shooting the ball in front of a lot of coaches, including Crean. But anyone who gave a honest appraisal of the kid's abilities knew he was out of his league. He had one skill - shooting. The rest of his game was entry-level M.A.C. at best.
When Crown Point played Warren Central in the Forum Tip-Off Classic, the Warriors held Gelon to 2 points. TWO. That should have been an immediate red flag. Then in the Indiana Sr/Jr All-Star games (does anyone seriously think Gelon is an All-Star had Gelon not been committed to IU?) Grant barely got off the bench against the Juniors - in games the organizers look to SHOWCASE Indiana recruits.
Archie handled this the best that could be expected. Him telling Grant "You're not in our plans" was brutal enough - for both player AND coach.
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Gelon knew the risk? Was he privy to the Crean firing before anybody else? Why would he think he wouldn't be part of the team, especially after Miller came out and said that these were my guys??
Not to quibble too much, I hope, but I think you're closer to the mark than many of the others.
I looked this stuff up a couple years ago and, as I recall, the Indiana Athlete Bill of Rights is still subject to the NCAA (ahem) rules. Going from memory only, I recall that some NCAA rules restrict the type of academic aid that can be awarded subsequently to a player who previously received an athletic scholarship but was then dropped from a team. This would apply to Grant's situation as I remember the rule.
Some of the posters have forgotten how to put on their own underwear, because they are so busy arguing about the Athlete Bill of Rights that they totally failed to review the controlling NCAA rules (which they probably didn't even think about).
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If Crean had never been fired I can almost guarantee you he would have Creaned Gelon at some point.
Do you really think IU's legal arm didn't closely review all applicable rules to insure the BoR wouldn't be affected adversely by NCAA scrutiny? Glass is an attorney, afterall. That was likely the first thing he thought about.
No of course not, since I didn't say that.
My post was not about what Glass did but was about the failure of many posts on this increasingly-useless board to interpret the Bill of Rights within the context of the controlling NCAA rules for awarding academic financial aid to former prayers.
Don't be silly. The risk was inherent with or without Crean. They knew damned well that Grant was stepping waaay out of his depth and with TCs history of roster churn he was at high risk from day one.
He got more than he could ever ask for and yet chose to pass on a world class degree in favor of State Fair. He has no fingers to pint at IU.
Broilee fans need to look at their bball team during PorkChop's first 3 seasons and the players that he ran off. Oh, and those players did not have the option of staying on with a full ride after being porkchopped. I count 6 that porky ran off. Broilees need to look in the mirror before the holier than thou statements on the IU board. Archie did nothing but what needed to be done. GG left in early May. The scholarship was not filled until August by Race Thompson.
Only one poster failed to understand the SA BOR and he did so repeatedly even after being corrected Time and again.
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The NCAA lets UofL coaches pay hookers to f*ck their recruits while their fan base looks the other way and claims 'all programs do it.'
Meanwhile, we have a 5 page thread about how our brand new coach told an extremely over his head player that he could just keep his academic scholarship to a Big Ten university, but would no be able to sit on the end of the bench during the game, and a segment of you "iu fans" are losing their minds over it. Amazing.
How about this? The couple of you guys that are driving this b.s., and you know who are...how about you each E.S.A.D?
Meanwhile, we have a 5 page thread about how our brand new coach told an extremely over his head player that he could just keep his academic scholarship to a Big Ten university, but would no be able to sit on the end of the bench during the game, and a segment of you "iu fans" are losing their minds over it. Amazing.
How about this? The couple of you guys that are driving this b.s., and you know who are...how about you each E.S.A.D?
What did you think "You're not in our plans" meant?
BTW - nice job by Chappy on your show today dumping your premise/bias on "Sir Charles".
Now it's "rumors"? I thought it was "whispers"?
Funny how so many in the media LOVE to slam Calipari, yet NONE (and I mean NONE) have EVER made any accusations about Cal PRIOR TO the Marcus Camby mess; certainly from the summer of 1995 (when Cal hired Eddie) or before. IF that is not accurate, where are all the reports of these "rumors" ( or "whispers", or whatever the hell you wanna call them)? So many people DYING TO SLING MUD on Calipari, yet no one (cept you
) has ever done so.So what were these rumors? Who said em? C'mon, Dan, tell us.
Yes, I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. I realize you didn't mention FG. I guess I'm not understanding (nothing new for me). Perhaps my understanding of the ABoR is too simple. But to me it's this: The ABoR guarantees a scholarship; it doesn't not guarantee a roster slot. I don't believe I've read how they're funded or where those funds come from. But is my interpretation incorrect?
It's not my job to educate you on how to reason and use logic or what ethics is. Don't you have parents?
It's the same as having a GF before getting divorced and after. All spots eventually get filled, but pre-filling the spot is basically frowned upon and is seen as lacking ethical integrity.
If you couldn't reason that out yourself you're either arguing to just argue or can't reason beyond emotion, (and are really just stating your love for Crean and nothing else) either way you deserved the derp.
It stands....
You are a total joke.
It is obvious you are not intelligent enough to educate me in anything.
My ability to reason is evidently superior to yours.
I do not, & never have "loved Crean".
I just respected him as the coach of my schools basketball team.
You are so full of hate for the man that anyone who respected him while he was the coach, is percieved as your enemy.
Don't I have parents? My parents taught me something yours evidently didn't teach you.
Not to be a fool.
You get off on putting people down if they don't agree with your bullcrap.
You don't have me fooled. You are certainly not the "great mind" You portray yourself to be. You are a sad little man.
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I agree with a number of perspectives in this thread:
1.) Grant was over his head at IU
2.) Crean would have sent him packing had he been around
3.) Archie was forthright with Grant
4.) I see this as a one-time free pass for Archie. He did not recruit these guys and he sees a big mistake in talent level. I will hold Archie accountable going forward, but he made a quick correction and it was harsh for one guy- Grant Gelon. I do feel for the kid, but in 3 years he will be celebrating senior night somewhere and will at least perhaps be glad that he was able to get his new career started somewhere else without being dragged through the mud for one or more seasons.
5.) My expectation is for Miller to keep everyone else now that he has his team. Going forward, it is on him. If he recruits a kid who doesn't meet his expectations, he needs to honor his recruiting commitment to the kid.
The athlete Bill of Rights thing should be used as an insurance policy, not as a way to "Crean" players annually. Let's hope Archie makes good recruiting choices. I think he will from what I've seen so far.
1.) Grant was over his head at IU
2.) Crean would have sent him packing had he been around
3.) Archie was forthright with Grant
4.) I see this as a one-time free pass for Archie. He did not recruit these guys and he sees a big mistake in talent level. I will hold Archie accountable going forward, but he made a quick correction and it was harsh for one guy- Grant Gelon. I do feel for the kid, but in 3 years he will be celebrating senior night somewhere and will at least perhaps be glad that he was able to get his new career started somewhere else without being dragged through the mud for one or more seasons.
5.) My expectation is for Miller to keep everyone else now that he has his team. Going forward, it is on him. If he recruits a kid who doesn't meet his expectations, he needs to honor his recruiting commitment to the kid.
The athlete Bill of Rights thing should be used as an insurance policy, not as a way to "Crean" players annually. Let's hope Archie makes good recruiting choices. I think he will from what I've seen so far.
Very good summation - esp the part about holding Archie accountable going forward.
Gelon told the media he didn't feel nervous when Miller got the job because he told all the team "you're my guys now". Sorry, Grant, but what was he supposed to tell you? "You're not in our plans"? - BEFORE he had a chance to evaluate you?
The thing that impresses me most about this is Archie and staff did their evaluation, saw Gelon didn't have the necessary skills to be a player at this level and told him so. If this was a player that Archie recruited it would be different, because evaluation of recruits is a part of the head coaching job. In this case, he simply did what needed to be done.
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I've turned this over in my head, and I can't get over how getting an IU scholarship offer seems to have totally bent all the Gelons out of whack. How much did basketball mean to Grant before the offer? How good did he think he was? Now, having been struck by Creanian lightning, he has to spurn a free ride to pursue his basketball dreams? Does he think he is going to play professionally? Didn't his parents read about flukey Crean offers? Did it ever occur to them that Grant's scholarship in part might be the reason Crean got canned? (Granted, a small part)
Now it's "rumors"? I thought it was "whispers"?
Funny how so many in the media LOVE to slam Calipari, yet NONE (and I mean NONE) have EVER made any accusations about Cal PRIOR TO the Marcus Camby mess; certainly from the summer of 1995 (when Cal hired Eddie) or before. IF that is not accurate, where are all the reports of these "rumors" ( or "whispers", or whatever the hell you wanna call them)? So many people DYING TO SLING MUD on Calipari, yet no one (cept you
So what were these rumors? Who said em? C'mon, Dan, tell us.
Dan? Ordfans name is Dan?
I coached AAU hoops for a few years and I can assure you that parents are the least objective creatures on this earth.
This is a rush-job post before I've had enough morning coffee, but here are some things in the 1017-18 NCAA Division I Manual (428 pages; free for download at NCAA.org):
Bylaw 15.5.1.3 says (with my underlining):
"If an institution does not renew financial aid for a counter in a following year, and a hearing before the institution's regular financial aid authority results in a successful appeal for restoration of aid, the student-athlete shall continue to be a counter if the individual continues to receive athletically related financial aid. However, the student-athlete shall not be a counter if he or she receives institutionally arranged or awarded, nonathletically related financial aid available to all students, provided such financial aid was granted or arranged without regard in any degree to athletics ability. If the student-athlete ever participates again in intercollegiate athletics at that institution, he or she will be considered to have been a counter during each year the financial aid was received."
That provision sounds to me like the NCAA rule permits a school that drops a player from the team to give the player future non-athletically connected financial aid without the former player counting toward the scholarship limit for basketball in the future. I think IU's Athlete Bill of Rights seems to fit into this bylaw.
In addition, there apparently is a new Bylaw 15.5.1.6 (eff. 8-1-17) that says:
"A student-athlete who receives athletically related institutional financial aid in subsequent academic years after the departure of a head coach from the institution is not a counter, provided:
(a) The student-athlete participated in the applicable sport and received athletically related institutional financial aid during the coach's tenure at the institution; and
(b) The student-athlete does not participate in the applicable sport during subsequent academic years at the institution."
Assuming this new bylaw (eff. 8-1-17) applies to Grant's situation for the 2017-18 school year (assuming he stayed), it seems to say even more convincingly that IU could have paid his full academic costs without counting toward the scholarship limits, specifically due to the "departure" of Tom Crean after Grant had already received a basketball scholarship the previous year.
Hope this post is on point.
That's exactly the thing I don't get either...
GG was his guy just like all of them for the rest of the year. That does not imply that he would be there for the remaining 3 years. To me "my guys" means I am not just going to unload you without giving you a proper chance. He gave him a reasonable amount of time to prove himself and be evaluated. That's really all you can ask for when a new coach comes in that did not recruit you.
I agree with you about 90% of the time, but (unless I'm missing something) this sure looks like a creaning. I will say, if ever a creaning needed to be done for the good of both player and team... this is it.
Verbal commits added Race Thompson as an IU offer on May 3. Thompson's twitter announced the IU offer on May 2. Miller sits down with Gelon letting him know that he doesn't fit into future plans on May 3.
I'm of the opinion that the reclassification didn't come as a shocking late development in the recruitment of Thompson. If so, then Gelon's scholarship was needed to bring in Thompson.
As TR32 said, I can abide this one instance because Archie was put in a ridiculous situation by Crean's impulse shopping.
Ehhh I struggle with that. Regardless of your opinion of DD, it is impossible for me to believe that he would be so insecure or frankly reckless with his career to spend his day embarassing himself by attacking all posters and all things IU to the extent of being banned so many times and then lying over and over about his very existence.
A network radio host, ESPN commentator former IU coach with kids and a wife out in the community having a dual life as one of the worst internet trolls around? Being used to mop the floors on a daily basis?
It's not Jared Fogle level, but still Toigh to believe.
Probably not - but, hey, how many names has he used? Why can't I give him/her/it one???
interesting report from local sports talk radio where Rabjohns reported on GG. He reported that GG met with CAM as year end wrap up. GG said he thought he should have gotten more playing time and expected more this year. CAM told him it probably wasn't going to happen. Sounds like he got bad advice to ask for his release thinking it would make CAM change his mind. He got what he asked for. Also reported his mother was over involved with other schools, trashing IU and coaching staff and that's one of the reasons he didn't get better offers. They didn't want to deal with over involved parent who felt her son is much better than he is. He also said IU tried to get him into mid/low level D1 schools, D2 and 3, NAIA. Most were not interested or lost interest when mother got involved.
All you did was deflect what I said. It's not about Painter. It's about Miller saying that these are my guys and then telling Gelon to get lost.
Btw...I bet you were a Knight fan. Did you make fun of his giant belly?
Ask my friends Jake and Jad about their encounter with CS. He stepped way past his level of "expertise" and got taken to the shed over something most IU fans know well.Probably not - but, hey, how many names has he used? Why can't I give him/her/it one???
Be sure to tune in for the megacast. Will be a fun night regardless of who wins.
No, Dakich posts on the premium board as fredsbeirhaus (sic). In all seriousness, he's even more obnoxious.
DD actually does that on the premium board. Other than the being banned over and over again thing, he literally does all of that.
