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Just burn it to the damn ground. JFC.

Ha ha. “Deal with it”.

He actually played much more like a guard throughout the year than he did tonight. Tonight he was a power forward. He didn’t have to handle the ball. He didn’t have to shoot it from the perimeter. He took his 6-7, 190 ass down in to the post and beat the hell out of our 6th year…legit power forward senior, and at the end of the game our All American center.

For a “guard” to be able to do that?! I’ll expect him to be a top 5 pick in the draft this summer.

They did beat our ass on both ends tonight. I’ll agree with that. But it wasn’t mainly because they’re just “better”. It was effort and intensity. We have a first round NBA guard standing on the other side. We have a former 4/5 star. We have a solid 5th year senior. We have a solid, 6-5, athletic, usually high energy guy.

If we had marched their energy and intensity. We’d have beaten them.
Our seniors have had so little success they seemed to feel they had accomplished something when they won a big game. Time to get some fresh energy on the court. I wish Woodson had a bit less faith in them this year and got our young guys more experience. Even tonight Banks had more energy than any of our starters.
 
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Who the hell said anything like that about Miami? It was a 4/5 matchup in the tourney.... the teams were about as equal on paper, analytics, etc... as you can get.

One came out and competed hard with a good scheme from the opening tip. The other looked like a disheveled mess for the vast majority of the game. Getting beat isn't frustrating. Getting beat the way they were beat tonight is difficult to swallow. Not like they just shot the ball unconsciously from outside, or were hitting prayers. The first 10 mins were a layup drill

They beat our ass badly on rudimentary fundamentals, such as boxing out your man.

They beat our ass on scheme from the start.

We weren't out-talented.
Miami has a proven winner at the collegiate level as their coach, not a washed up NBA retread who has never coached at this level before. The outcome of this game and the way each team played are not surprising in the least.
 
I didn’t say any of that. I said saying we just lost to a “better team” is chicken shit.

Our KenPom was better than theirs, overall. The combination of our bigs and perimeter guys, and theirs…and I say we’re as good or better.

The punked us though. Not a 1 point game like KenPom predicted. Not 1.5 like Vegas. They beat our ass.

KenPom and Vegas didn’t think they were “just better”…so I think you using that to explain away the loss is chicken shit.

Maybe you’re just saying that because there isn’t much point in being too negative? We obviously don’t effect anything venting on this fan board.
What on Earth? I initially responded to a post that tried to claim Miami wasn’t a better team. They clearly were the better team tonight in every facet possible. How is that a chicken shit point of view? Did we watch two different games?
 
Our seniors have had so little success they seemed to feel they had accomplished something when they won a big game. Time to get some fresh energy on the court. I wish Woodson had a bit less faith in them this year and got our young guys more experience. Even tonight Banks had more energy than any of our starters.
Banks is our hope ! He could be a real player much more than Geronimo . He shouldve been playing more all year in my opnion
 
The fact that your last statement is even remotely true at IU is pathetic. What the hell happened to us?
Adam Farking Herbert held on to Mike Davis two years too long, and instead of making a decision not based on a lighter skin tone, he made a decision based on a darker skin tone.

We could've had Thad Matta in his prime in the 2004 offseason, who would have brought Oden and Conley to Indiana instead of to Ohio State, and we never would've had to hire a known cheater (who promised he wouldn't do it again, did it again, and lied about the whole thing) to get EJ to change his commitment from Illinois to Indiana. And there is your dagger.

We will never recover from that horrible, horrible decision.
 
Miami has a proven winner at the collegiate level as their coach, not a washed up NBA retread who has never coached at this level before. The outcome of this game and the way each team played are not surprising in the least.

I really like Woody and hope he can have some success. Next year will be....interesting.
 
Adam Farking Herbert held on to Mike Davis two years too long, and instead of making a decision not based on a lighter skin tone, he made a decision based on a darker skin tone.

We could've had Thad Matta in his prime in the 2004 offseason, who would have brought Oden and Conley to Indiana instead of to Ohio State, and we never would've had to hire a known cheater (who promised he wouldn't do it again, did it again, and lied about the whole thing) to get EJ to change his commitment from Illinois to Indiana. And there is your dagger.

We will never recover from that horrible, horrible decision.

IU hired one of the best coaches in college BB, they could have gone the Kansas route of stonewalling the NCAA and I'm sure we would have had at least a FF or two by now. We instead chose door #2.
 
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Our seniors have had so little success they seemed to feel they had accomplished something when they won a big game. Time to get some fresh energy on the court. I wish Woodson had a bit less faith in them this year and got our young guys more experience. Even tonight Banks had more energy than any of our starters.
Agree whole heartedly on wishing he’d have played the younger guys more…more consistently.

I’m sure his decisions are based off practice efforts as much as game efforts. But I just don’t understand the acceptance on Woodys part for the continuous highs and lows with their effort.

At some point, your program has to be based on tangible, repeatable things. And man, if effort isn’t one of those things…well his tenure at IU won’t last much longer.

Why did Banks get so much time those couple games mid season, then no more?

Why did Gunn get so little time, despite Bates being as up and down as he was? Despite our guards being so inconsistent. He always appeared to play really hard.

Why the loooonnng Malik absences? Like tonight. Race was getting absolutely punked. Like all game the Coach Geez dubbed “guard” dominating Race, in the post and on the boards…on both ends. Yet Malik played what, 6-8 minutes? He wasn’t great either. But at least he has some attitude.

Don’t get it.
 
What on Earth? I initially responded to a post that tried to claim Miami wasn’t a better team. They clearly were the better team tonight in every facet possible. How is that a chicken shit point of view? Did we watch two different games?
The obvious point from all of it is that Miami isn’t a “better team”…we got punked tonight, and it was effort and intensity based. You said they were just better. Like we were playing Alabama or Houston or something.
 
Agree whole heartedly on wishing he’d have played the younger guys more…more consistently.

I’m sure his decisions are based off practice efforts as much as game efforts. But I just don’t understand the acceptance on Woodys part for the continuous highs and lows with their effort.

At some point, your program has to be based on tangible, repeatable things. And man, if effort isn’t one of those things…well his tenure at IU won’t last much longer.

Why did Banks get so much time those couple games mid season, then no more?

Why did Gunn get so little time, despite Bates being as up and down as he was? Despite our guards being so inconsistent. He always appeared to play really hard.

Why the loooonnng Malik absences? Like tonight. Race was getting absolutely punked. Like all game the Coach Geez dubbed “guard” dominating Race, in the post and on the boards…on both ends. Yet Malik played what, 6-8 minutes? He wasn’t great either. But at least he has some attitude.

Don’t get it.
I hope there isnt a mass exodus . There obviously will be a lot more playing time. Banks to me is the real mystery. I know he didn't score much but in time he was give his plus to negative ratio has to be right at the top and he always gave effort. I can't remember him doing just flat stupid stuff
 
The obvious point from all of it is that Miami isn’t a “better team”…we got punked tonight, and it was effort and intensity based. You said they were just better. Like we were playing Alabama or Houston or something.
You are wrong there, IU may have better players but Miami was a much better ''team''
 
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Agree whole heartedly on wishing he’d have played the younger guys more…more consistently.

I’m sure his decisions are based off practice efforts as much as game efforts. But I just don’t understand the acceptance on Woodys part for the continuous highs and lows with their effort.

At some point, your program has to be based on tangible, repeatable things. And man, if effort isn’t one of those things…well his tenure at IU won’t last much longer.

Why did Banks get so much time those couple games mid season, then no more?

Why did Gunn get so little time, despite Bates being as up and down as he was? Despite our guards being so inconsistent. He always appeared to play really hard.

Why the loooonnng Malik absences? Like tonight. Race was getting absolutely punked. Like all game the Coach Geez dubbed “guard” dominating Race, in the post and on the boards…on both ends. Yet Malik played what, 6-8 minutes? He wasn’t great either. But at least he has some attitude.

Don’t get it.
Miller had 5 rebounds tonight…
 
IU hired one of the best coaches in college BB, they could have gone the Kansas route of stonewalling the NCAA and I'm sure we would have had at least a FF or two by now. We instead chose door #2.
Yeah, that was never going to work. We would've been made examples and had the SMU death penalty thrown at us. Could've avoided the whole thing by doing exactly what I said--fire Davis in 2004, hire Matta, thank me later.

Herbert's massive failure (because of his desire to make sure the next person he hired was also a person of color regardless of ethics) to do that was choosing door #2...and not only getting zonked, but hitting bankrupt, double overbidding on a showcase, busting on a double Ace, and getting gonged.
 
Exactly, the inevitable was coming. It was a dumb shot, but could have dropped.

You can’t win a game like that with the all Xanax team.

Recruit some f’kn guards man.

Bench points = 0. Just unreal
"All Xanax Team". Damn, that is funny AND accurate.
 
The obvious point from all of it is that Miami isn’t a “better team”…we got punked tonight, and it was effort and intensity based. You said they were just better. Like we were playing Alabama or Houston or something.
If IU plays that Miami team 10 times on a neutral court, how many do they win? I say 3-4. Their back court is vastly better than ours. They’re a horrible matchup for IU and the type of team IU has struggled with all year. There’s nothing wrong with admitting that IU lost to a better team while also acknowledging they played like crap. Both can be true.
 
Miller had 5 rebounds tonight…
Yep. I can read box scores too. He also got his hands on about half the rebounds their center ended up getting. And he took all of about 4 shots outside 8 feet.

They didn’t need him to shoot the ball from the outside, like they usually do. They didn’t need him to handle the ball on the perimeter, like he sometimes does.

He was a power forward tonight. He’s been a stretch 4 most of the year.

If he was in any way a guard, the strategy would have been him taking Race off the dribble. He went at our bigs, inside, from the start.

He, and they, punked us.
 
Yep. I can read box scores too. He also got his hands on about half the rebounds their center ended up getting. And he took all of about 4 shots outside 8 feet.

They didn’t need him to shoot the ball from the outside, like they usually do. They didn’t need him to handle the ball on the perimeter, like he sometimes does.

He was a power forward tonight. He’s been a stretch 4 most of the year.

If he was in any way a guard, the strategy would have been him taking Race off the dribble. He went at our bigs, inside, from the start.

He, and they, punked us.
I'm not sure what punked us is supposed to mean? Miami basically controlled all but about 5 minutes of that game. They thoroughly outplayed IU from start to finish sustaining a couple brief runs.
 
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If IU plays that Miami team 10 times on a neutral court, how many do they win? I say 3-4. Their back court is vastly better than ours. They’re a horrible matchup for IU and the type of team IU has struggled with all year. There’s nothing wrong with admitting that IU lost to a better team while also acknowledging they played like crap. Both can be true.
KenPom is pretty damn smart. ESPN BPI is usually pretty accurate. Both of them would have said 5-6 times out of 10 IU would have won.

Definitely agree on the matchup. But I attribute that to effort and focus. Drake did just fine against them. And no, it wasn’t just because Miami missed a bunch of open shots against them. It was because they put up resistance.
 
I'm not sure what punked us is supposed to mean? Miami basically controlled all but about 5 minutes of that game. They thoroughly outplayed IU from start to finish sustaining a couple brief runs
They beat IU at its own game. They attacked our interior. For most of the game they dominated us in the paint and on the glass. They played harder than we did. They won most of the 50-50 balls. They punked us.
 
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Yeah, that was never going to work. We would've been made examples and had the SMU death penalty thrown at us. Could've avoided the whole thing by doing exactly what I said--fire Davis in 2004, hire Matta, thank me later.

Herbert's massive failure (because of his desire to make sure the next person he hired was also a person of color regardless of ethics) to do that was choosing door #2...and not only getting zonked, but hitting bankrupt, double overbidding on a showcase, busting on a double Ace, and getting gonged.

Made examples of how? IU self reported the violations.
 
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Who the hell said anything like that about Miami? It was a 4/5 matchup in the tourney.... the teams were about as equal on paper, analytics, etc... as you can get.

One came out and competed hard with a good scheme from the opening tip. The other looked like a disheveled mess for the vast majority of the game. Getting beat isn't frustrating. Getting beat the way they were beat tonight is difficult to swallow. Not like they just shot the ball unconsciously from outside, or were hitting prayers. The first 10 mins were a layup drill

They beat our ass badly on rudimentary fundamentals, such as boxing out your man.

They beat our ass on scheme from the start.

We weren't out-talented.
There was a play under the basket with JHS and a couple Miami players. The ball was loose and both Miami players got on the floor. JHS just bent over and reached for the ball.

Rebound after rebound, they went hard after the ball and beat us to it.
 
Yep. I can read box scores too. He also got his hands on about half the rebounds their center ended up getting. And he took all of about 4 shots outside 8 feet.

They didn’t need him to shoot the ball from the outside, like they usually do. They didn’t need him to handle the ball on the perimeter, like he sometimes does.

He was a power forward tonight. He’s been a stretch 4 most of the year.

If he was in any way a guard, the strategy would have been him taking Race off the dribble. He went at our bigs, inside, from the start.

He, and they, punked us.
After you re-watch the game, you’ll retract about 90% of what you just typed. He took Race off the bounce from outside the 3 point line three different times for 6 points, did the same thing to Reneau and TJD once a piece and had two break away dunks at then of the game. Only once did he methodically back down Race Thompson and score and it was off a fall away jumper. Miller started outside the perimeter on nearly 80% of their possessions by my rough count.
 
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After you re-watch the game, you’ll retract about 90% of what you just typed. He took Race off the bounce from outside the 3 point line three different times for 6 points, did the same thing to Reneau and TJD once a piece and had two break away dunks at then of the game. Only once did he methodically back down Race Thompson and score and it was off a fall away jumper. Miller started outside the perimeter on nearly 80% of their possessions by my rough count.
I for sure will. I can remember 2 such over power plays on Race. And 1 on TJD even. He took only 1 outside shot. And he got his hands on numerous rebounded balls.

But for sure, if and when I watch it, if he started possessions largely on the perimeter and more often than not worked against us off the dribble from the outside…I’ll admit I saw it wrong.

But the only time I accept the coach speak statement of “we lost to a better team” or even “they were the better team” tonight…is when both teams put forth a good effort. And one team just out executes or out plays the other.

Tonight we got out hustled. They played harder. They wanted it more. They’re just better doesn’t apply. And it’s a cop out. And the reason our very talented, very experienced team lost way more games than it should have, I suspect, is “they were just better” is the type of thought that’s allowed to explain games like tonight.
 
Stonewalling the NCAA would've resulted in us getting the book thrown at us. We're not UNC or KAN, and the NCAA would not have looked the other way.
Why do you say that? When have they ever thrown the book at a blue blood like IU?
 
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Stonewalling the NCAA would've resulted in us getting the book thrown at us. We're not UNC or KAN, and the NCAA would not have looked the other way.

Not sure you understand... the ncaa wouldn't have ever known about 3 way phone calls with recruits if IU didn't report them.

And to even talk about that as a serious discussion comparable to Arizona, Kansas, etc and the FBI/Adidas situation seems laughable from today's point of view.
 
IU hired one of the best coaches in college BB, they could have gone the Kansas route of stonewalling the NCAA and I'm sure we would have had at least a FF or two by now. We instead chose door #2.
Easily. Now sampson kills it. Painful.
 
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They would’ve found out eventually. Especially because Sampson was already on notice for violations at OKLA.

They would have found out. Probably years later.. and did what?

Nothing, as it's a toothless organization. A joke.

Everything that happened to IU re: Sampson was entirely self inflicted. It was a choice IU made.

Every other big school learned from IU, of what not to do.
 
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Yeah, that was never going to work. We would've been made examples and had the SMU death penalty thrown at us. Could've avoided the whole thing by doing exactly what I said--fire Davis in 2004, hire Matta, thank me later.

Herbert's massive failure (because of his desire to make sure the next person he hired was also a person of color regardless of ethics) to do that was choosing door #2...and not only getting zonked, but hitting bankrupt, double overbidding on a showcase, busting on a double Ace, and getting gonged.
No doubt it was a diversity hire given sampsons baggage. We easily could of had beilein instead. No doubt sampson was a great coach but the risk was too great imo. Davis was never the problem. Still could of made a great hire after him.
 
They would have found out. Probably years later.. and did what?

Nothing, as it's a toothless organization. A joke.

Everything that happened to IU re: Sampson was entirely self inflicted. It was a choice IU made.

Every other big school learned from IU, of what not to do.
Including who to have make an important hire and who the important hire is.

You cannot honestly believe that a prized recruit that Sampson got to change programs, while he was already on notice for recruiting violations at Oklahoma, wouldn’t have aroused any suspicions from the NCAA? If you do, I have some swampland in New Jersey you can have for a song.

Of course they would’ve found out, and pretty quickly. At that point, stonewalling the NCAA would’ve made the problem worse, and whatever F4 we might have made would’ve likely had to be vacated and wiped from the books.

The real issue was Herbert shouldn’t have even been trusted to hire a gardener, let alone a basketball coach.
 
I think Kopps 1 on 3 trey after the steal from 25 feet was sorta the turning point, if there was one.

but truth be told, MIA was always on the verge of housing us. they're better.
Please! How about a team that is 6’7” and shorter out rebounding us? This team was out hustled all game. Miami just wanted it more and showed it.
 
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Including who to have make an important hire and who the important hire is.

You cannot honestly believe that a prized recruit that Sampson got to change programs, while he was already on notice for recruiting violations at Oklahoma, wouldn’t have aroused any suspicions from the NCAA? If you do, I have some swampland in New Jersey you can have for a song.

Of course they would’ve found out, and pretty quickly. At that point, stonewalling the NCAA would’ve made the problem worse, and whatever F4 we might have made would’ve likely had to be vacated and wiped from the books.

The real issue was Herbert shouldn’t have even been trusted to hire a gardener, let alone a basketball coach.


Sampson's phone call violation was with Demetri McCamey, Devan Ebanks, etc

Eric Gordon was not involved.

 
My Take on Miami.
1. Major raspberries to all the **** who think IU could beat anyone if they just played better. This IU team had a lot of talent and experience, but lacked a level of quickness and athleticism of several of the other Top 20 teams. Miami was co-champions of the ACC, not too lame an achievement. Tonight IU just got beat by a more athletic team that played one of their best games of the year. Didn't Miami make the Sweet 16 last year? Don't be too surprised if they beat Houston.
2. Remember too that IU lost Xavier Johnson for the Big 10 season, and Race Thompson for almost half of it. This team deserves a ton of credit for pulling together and finishing in a tie for 2nd in the league. The season should not be judged solely by the last game. Even Bob Knight had several teams that didn't even make the tournament. People forget.
3. Still, recruiting is crucial for success, and in the current environment, the portal is part of recruiting. Woodson has brought in some fine talent (Hood-Sahifino and Reneau in particular). But IU had a mediocre record even before Woodson of bringing in big, athletic players for rebounding and super-quick guards for driving and 3-pt. shooting. Woodson's legacy will be measured not by this year's team, half of which he didn't recruit, but by the performance of teams in the coming years.
4. At the beginning of the season, I thought IU would finish ranked somewhere in the middle of the second ten, which is exactly where they wound up - and that was before the injuries. With a better draw, the team certainly could have made the Sweet 16, but would have needed a big upset (or a lot of luck) to make the Elite 8. So anyone who thinks this tournament was "there for the taking" needs a reality check.
5. 10-4, over and out!
 
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