Judge puts Trump out of business in NY?

[cosmickid]

So Trump's defense in the NY trial seems to be not that the Trump Org did not engage in fraud, but rather that he's innocent and others including the accountants are to blame. So in that regard , yesterday seems to have been maybe the worst day yet, in a trial full of bad days...

The Defense recalled Former Controller Mcconney and the cross exam was brutal. Mcconey is another co-defendant and he literally ended up bawling on the stand. He basically said that he went along with Weisselberg's schemes because he feared losing his job. But he also said that he ended up leaving the job because of the pressure and investigations and he just wanted to relax and take life easy...

Classic case of a man unwittingly caught up in crime. But the reason it was so devastating to Trump and his attempt to seperate himself and blame everyone else, is that the Prosecution presented Mcconney with a draft of the 2014 SFC and Mcconney confirmed that he was the one who had handwritten a note to the effect of "DJT TO GET FINAL REVIEW" (all in caps) on the front page.

The draft (and submitted SFC) contained $3.5 Billion in exaggerations. I guess Trump can argue that despite the note he never saw it, but I'm guessing tht won't fly with Judge Engoron. The draft provides a smoking gun that the actual SFC does not include with the reference to Trump, which of course would not be on the final product submitted to Mazers.

Now if you want to believe that despite the note someone decided on their own to disobey orders and submit it without getting final approval from DJT, then I've got a bridge in the desert that you need to own...

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

So Trump's defense in the NY trial seems to be not that the Trump Org did not engage in fraud, but rather that he's innocent and others including the accountants are to blame. So in that regard , yesterday seems to have been maybe the worst day yet, in a trial full of bad days...

The Defense recalled Former Controller Mcconney and the cross exam was brutal. Mcconey is another co-defendant and he literally ended up bawling on the stand. He basically said that he went along with Weisselberg's schemes because he feared losing his job. But he also said that he ended up leaving the job because of the pressure and investigations and he just wanted to relax and take life easy...

Classic case of a man unwittingly caught up in crime. But the reason it was so devastating to Trump and his attempt to seperate himself and blame everyone else, is that the Prosecution presented Mcconney with a draft of the 2014 SFC and Mcconney confirmed that he was the one who had handwritten a note to the effect of "DJT TO GET FINAL REVIEW" (all in caps) on the front page.

The draft (and submitted SFC) contained $3.5 Billion in exaggerations. I guess Trump can argue that despite the note he never saw it, but I'm guessing tht won't fly with Judge Engoron. The draft provides a smoking gun that the actual SFC does not include with the reference to Trump, which of course would not be on the final product submitted to Mazers.

Now if you want to believe that despite the note someone decided on their own to disobey orders and submit it without getting final approval from DJT, then I've got a bridge in the desert that you need to own...

View embedded media

It was an easy call that he would blame others for the fraud. It's what he does. Trump is no Truman, the buck does NOT stop on Trump's desk. He never takes responsibility for anything. He is a piss poor leader.

 

[cosmickid]

It was an easy call that he would blame others for the fraud. It's what he does. Trump is no Truman, the buck does NOT stop on Trump's desk. He never takes responsibility for anything. He is a piss poor leader.

Oh agree 100%. He was more than willing to throw Jr and Eric under the bus early on as well,especially in his deposition.

 

[BradStevens]

It was an easy call that he would blame others for the fraud. It's what he does. Trump is no Truman, the buck does NOT stop on Trump's desk. He never takes responsibility for anything. He is a piss poor leader.

It's an interesting question: when has Trump admitted something was his fault?

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

It's an interesting question: when has Trump admitted something was his fault?

He said that our greatest years 2016-2020 was what he did, does that count? He owned right up to that.

 

[UncleMark]

It's an interesting question: when has Trump admitted something was his fault?

He's done the "mistakes were made" thing, but never "I made a mistake." Lot's of that going on in the fraud trial right now.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

He's done the "mistakes were made" thing, but never "I made a mistake." Lot's of that going on in the fraud trial right now.

He said he made a mistake repping for Desantis after Ron back stabbed him. How is that not taking responsibility?

 

[IU_Hickory]

He said that our greatest years 2016-2020 was what he did, does that count? He owned right up to that.

So another lie? Greatest lmao

 

[cosmickid]

He said that our greatest years 2016-2020 was what he did, does that count? He owned right up to that.

That's another MAGA myth, perpetuated by Trumpists. The fact is that in 2018 record number of people turned out to depose MAGA types, and a party that on election night 2016 looked to be firmly entrenched in all 3 levels of the Legislative and Executive branches was rejected everywhere but in the Reddest of Red states. So obviously the rest of us didn't share your belief that 2016-18 comprised our "greatest years."

By 2020 both of the two remaining vestiges of MAGA control (POTUS/Senate) both flipped. So the Trump movement went from controlling all 3 on election night 2016, to losing all 3 on election night 2020. That's not the history of a party having it's "greatest years", and in fact like everything about Trump/politics is a pretty rare electoral disaster. And if you don't realize that both 2022 and 2023 were a further rejection of MAGA policies, I'd say you have not been paying attention...

 

[GigGoo]

That's another MAGA myth, perpetuated by Trumpists. The fact is that in 2018 record number of people turned out to depose MAGA types, and a party that on election night 2016 looked to be firmly entrenched in all 3 levels of the Legislative and Executive branches was rejected everywhere but in the Reddest of Red states. So obviously the rest of us didn't share your belief that 2016-18 comprised our "greatest years."

By 2020 both of the two remaining vestiges of MAGA control (POTUS/Senate) both flipped. So the Trump movement went from controlling all 3 on election night 2016, to losing all 3 on election night 2020. That's not the history of a party having it's "greatest years", and in fact like everything about Trump/politics is a pretty rare electoral disaster. And if you don't realize that both 2022 and 2023 were a further rejection of MAGA policies, I'd say you have not been paying attention...

So what? Obama was a relatively popular president and he presided over record federal and state legislative and executive losses for the Democratic Party.

Have you not learned by now that not every President has electoral coat tails?

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

That's another MAGA myth, perpetuated by Trumpists. The fact is that in 2018 record number of people turned out to depose MAGA types, and a party that on election night 2016 looked to be firmly entrenched in all 3 levels of the Legislative and Executive branches was rejected everywhere but in the Reddest of Red states. So obviously the rest of us didn't share your belief that 2016-18 comprised our "greatest years."

By 2020 both of the two remaining vestiges of MAGA control (POTUS/Senate) both flipped. So the Trump movement went from controlling all 3 on election night 2016, to losing all 3 on election night 2020. That's not the history of a party having it's "greatest years", and in fact like everything about Trump/politics is a pretty rare electoral disaster. And if you don't realize that both 2022 and 2023 were a further rejection of MAGA policies, I'd say you have not been paying attention...

I have personally experienced leading a pig to a water hole, with the swine refusing to drink, because it was not appreciative of being offered the water from someone who proved swine political theories flawed and how that theory made swine life worse. The hog prepared itself for the smoker, lean and ready for seasoning and consumption. Cosmic, your beliefs make you Bacon, nothing else. BACON

 

[mcmurtry66]

That's another MAGA myth, perpetuated by Trumpists. The fact is that in 2018 record number of people turned out to depose MAGA types, and a party that on election night 2016 looked to be firmly entrenched in all 3 levels of the Legislative and Executive branches was rejected everywhere but in the Reddest of Red states. So obviously the rest of us didn't share your belief that 2016-18 comprised our "greatest years."

By 2020 both of the two remaining vestiges of MAGA control (POTUS/Senate) both flipped. So the Trump movement went from controlling all 3 on election night 2016, to losing all 3 on election night 2020. That's not the history of a party having it's "greatest years", and in fact like everything about Trump/politics is a pretty rare electoral disaster. And if you don't realize that both 2022 and 2023 were a further rejection of MAGA policies, I'd say you have not been paying attention...

How people vote doesn’t reflect the state of things. We see that espoused here all the time. We also see people routinely vote against their own interests.

 

[mattndallas]

What....specifically...was the "crime" here?

Submitting "estimates of value" on non-subject real estate that was different from tax basis?

How, specifically, did Trump gain on the supposed charges?

Anyone?

 

[IU_Hickory]

What....specifically...was the "crime" here?

Submitting "estimates of value" on non-subject real estate that was different from tax basis?

How, specifically, did Trump gain on the supposed charges?

Anyone?

Better rates more than likely and lower taxes

Really think Trump would have lied about valuations if there was nothing to gain? Lmao

 

[mattndallas]

Better rates more than likely and lower taxes

Really think Trump would have lied about valuations if there was nothing to gain? Lmao

Yeah...lenders don't give "better rates" based on estimated values on non-subject values on a submitted REO. We check them and assign our own values. As long as he actually owns them, in the percentages he says....we don't give a ahit what he says they're worth.

Tax assessors? You're actually going to claim charges against guys for not calling up the local tax assessor and asking them to raise assessment values for tax to a level some broker gave you as "market"?

At this point I'm assuming you're either willfully ignorant, shitposting, or just too dumb to realize the infraction you're calling as a gotcha is done by 100% of property owners in the US...legally.

 

[IU_Hickory]

Yeah...lenders don't give "better rates" based on estimated values on non-subject values on a submitted REO. We check them and assign our own values. As long as he actually owns them, in the percentages he says....we don't give a ahit what he says they're worth.

Tax assessors? You're actually going to claim charges against guys for not calling up the local tax assessor and asking them to raise assessment values for tax to a level some broker gave you as "market"?

At this point I'm assuming you're either willfully ignorant, shitposting, or just too dumb to realize the infraction you're calling as a gotcha is done by 100% of property owners in the US...legally.

Willfully ignorant is the guy thinking Trump fudged his numbers for no purpose

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

What....specifically...was the "crime" here?

Submitting "estimates of value" on non-subject real estate that was different from tax basis?

How, specifically, did Trump gain on the supposed charges?

Anyone?

Wow! What a novel point!

 

[cosmickid]

What....specifically...was the "crime" here?

Submitting "estimates of value" on non-subject real estate that was different from tax basis?

How, specifically, did Trump gain on the supposed charges?

Anyone?

Amazing. All these people connected to Trump and his businesses are regular criminal masterminds. Not only do they engaged in criminal enterprises right under Trump's nose, but he never even suspected a thing. I guess when he says he only hires "the best people" he means all of the people who outsmart him and commit crimes with him being none the wiser...

Must be a total coincidence that all of these Trump "acquaintances" end up going to jail, including at least two from his "perfect company" that were involved in fraud and tax avoidance schemes. Amazing how Cohen and Wesselberg created the tax avoidance schemes out of thin air, kept it secret from Trump and both ended up going to prison. Trump's company was convicted of 15 criminal indictments, and he was totally oblivious to what his own employees were up to...Amazing...

Trump Organization indictment charges long-time scheme to dodge taxes on compensation to CFO Weisselberg, other execs

Trump Organization and CFO Allen Weisselberg were hit charges related to a scheme to dodge taxes on executive compensation at Donald Trump's company.

www.cnbc.com

 

[cosmickid]

So what? Obama was a relatively popular president and he presided over record federal and state legislative and executive losses for the Democratic Party.

Have you not learned by now that not every President has electoral coat tails?

So nothing like a good old strawman...This is the comment I responded to...

"He said that our greatest years 2016-2020 was what he did, does that count? He owned right up to that."

My post pointed out that not only was "our greatest years" a highly subjective opinion, but also that it was a remarkably minority view. I'd argue that "our greatest years" wouldn't result in devastating electoral losses. But I didn't claim that the Obama years were "our greatest years", and Obama (who actually won re-election) has nothing to do with the rejection of Trump and his allies uniformly since 2018...

 

[mcmurtry66]

So nothing like a good old strawman...This is the comment I responded to...

"He said that our greatest years 2016-2020 was what he did, does that count? He owned right up to that."

My post pointed out that not only was "our greatest years" a highly subjective opinion, but also that it was a remarkably minority view. I'd argue that "our greatest years" wouldn't result in devastating electoral losses. But I didn't claim that the Obama years were "our greatest years", and Obama (who actually won re-election) has nothing to do with the rejection of Trump and his allies uniformly since 2018...

how people vote can be a product of perception as opposed to successes. i suspect this next election will turn on what people value more: their pocketbooks or climate, inclusion, politicians w/ poor character, etc.

https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/article281958863.html

 

[dbmhoosier]

Yeah...lenders don't give "better rates" based on estimated values on non-subject values on a submitted REO. We check them and assign our own values. As long as he actually owns them, in the percentages he says....we don't give a ahit what he says they're worth.

Tax assessors? You're actually going to claim charges against guys for not calling up the local tax assessor and asking them to raise assessment values for tax to a level some broker gave you as "market"?

At this point I'm assuming you're either willfully ignorant, shitposting, or just too dumb to realize the infraction you're calling as a gotcha is done by 100% of property owners in the US...legally.

Yes they really are this ignorant.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Yes they really are this ignorant.

View embedded media

That’s unbelievable

 

[mcmurtry66]

Yes they really are this ignorant.

View embedded media

biden and his nominations lol. is biden competent in anything? just re-elect trump already. cut these fed agencies by 3/4 and consolidate them under kush. let kushner run them. irs, education, transportation, agriculture, hhs. pick six or seven of them and let kush oversee them going forward. enough already

 

[dbmhoosier]

That’s unbelievable

Another diversity hire. Those always go well.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Yes they really are this ignorant.

View embedded media

That’s unbelievable

Don't be dense. Did you see his expression? Note the pause? He was making a joke that didn't land.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Don't be dense. Did you see his expression? Note the pause? He was making a joke that didn't land.

Wasn’t much of one. I’m not sure you’re right. Either way a dumb thing to say.

 

[jet812]

Don't be dense. Did you see his expression? Note the pause? He was making a joke that didn't land.

No chance this is the case…

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Wasn’t much of one. I’m not sure you’re right. Either way a dumb thing to say.

You obviously have no experience being awkward and unfunny.

 

[mcmurtry66]

You obviously have no experience being awkward and unfunny.

Nope. Only offensive and unfunny

 

[UncleMark]

You obviously have no experience being awkward and unfunny.

Preach it, bruhtha

 

[ButHerEmails]

how people vote can be a product of perception as opposed to successes. i suspect this next election will turn on what people value more: their pocketbooks or climate, inclusion, politicians w/ poor character, etc.

https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/article281958863.html

For everyone bitching about their pocketbooks and inflation, I can’t find a goddamn parking spot at almost any store I go to, be it retail or grocery. Unless everyone is there just browsing.

 

[mcmurtry66]

For everyone bitching about their pocketbooks and inflation, I can’t find a goddamn parking spot at almost any store I go to, be it retail or grocery. Unless everyone is there just browsing.

Credit

 

[mcmurtry66]

For everyone bitching about their pocketbooks and inflation, I can’t find a goddamn parking spot at almost any store I go to, be it retail or grocery. Unless everyone is there just browsing.

U.S. consumer credit card debt at highest levels ever, ahead of the holidays

Overall, U.S. consumers were carrying around $1.1 trillion in credit card debt at the end of the third quarter of 2023, heading into the holidays.

www.wbir.com

 

[jet812]

For everyone bitching about their pocketbooks and inflation, I can’t find a goddamn parking spot at almost any store I go to, be it retail or grocery. Unless everyone is there just browsing.

You should call the WH, your cool story will undoubtedly make everyone forget that everything they’re buying in those crowded stores cost 15% more.🤣🤣

 

[mattndallas]

Amazing. All these people connected to Trump and his businesses are regular criminal masterminds. Not only do they engaged in criminal enterprises right under Trump's nose, but he never even suspected a thing. I guess when he says he only hires "the best people" he means all of the people who outsmart him and commit crimes with him being none the wiser...

Must be a total coincidence that all of these Trump "acquaintances" end up going to jail, including at least two from his "perfect company" that were involved in fraud and tax avoidance schemes. Amazing how Cohen and Wesselberg created the tax avoidance schemes out of thin air, kept it secret from Trump and both ended up going to prison. Trump's company was convicted of 15 criminal indictments, and he was totally oblivious to what his own employees were up to...Amazing...

Trump Organization indictment charges long-time scheme to dodge taxes on compensation to CFO Weisselberg, other execs

Trump Organization and CFO Allen Weisselberg were hit charges related to a scheme to dodge taxes on executive compensation at Donald Trump's company.

www.cnbc.com

How, specifically, did Trump gain from his opinion of values on the cases presented? Which lender granted him a lower rate than they otherwise would have?

 

[ButHerEmails]

U.S. consumer credit card debt at highest levels ever, ahead of the holidays

Overall, U.S. consumers were carrying around $1.1 trillion in credit card debt at the end of the third quarter of 2023, heading into the holidays.

www.wbir.com

Can’t help but wonder how much of that 1.1 trillion is necessities and how much is people not wanting to alter their current lifestyle.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Can’t help but wonder how much of that 1.1 trillion is necessities and how much is people not wanting to alter their current lifestyle.

I suspect lifestyle is a big part of it. I doubt people scraping by with necessities have much credit

 

[ButHerEmails]

I suspect lifestyle is a big part of it. I doubt people scraping by with necessities have much credit

Even people with shitty credit can get a card with a $500-$1000 limit. I know, I used to have shitty credit.

As far as lifestyle, don’t good conservatives tell us to live within our means? How is this anyone’s fault but their own?

 

[twenty02]

U.S. consumer credit card debt at highest levels ever, ahead of the holidays

Overall, U.S. consumers were carrying around $1.1 trillion in credit card debt at the end of the third quarter of 2023, heading into the holidays.

www.wbir.com

I'll just say that the last time I was at point in life where I was scratching my head about how expensive things were, particularly housing costs... And wondering how people were getting by was about 2006.

I don't think we will see a 2008 relapse as lending standards are much tighter than they were in the crazy times of the 2000s where anyone breathing was given giant liar loans for homes, but I do think there will be some really rough waters in the next couple of years once the consumer hits the breaking point. I could be wrong, but I just don't see how things are just going to coast through. I've noticed the uptick in living expenses personally, while also seeing how my business margins have gotten tighter. And I'm not exactly living on the margins.

 

[twenty02]

Even people with shitty credit can get a card with a $500-$1000 limit. I know, I used to have shitty credit.

As far as lifestyle, don’t good conservatives tell us to live within our means? How is this anyone’s fault but their own?

The reality is that once people that live paycheck to paycheck (I don't really like that term, as I do it too, but intentionally) start hitting the wall.... It hits everyone.

It's become obvious to my family, doing zero baseline personal budgeting, that things are much more expensive. And without wage gains that offset that, which they aren't, standard of living will drop in the short term. That's not really a bad thing, and by itself should self control inflation. That combined with the Fed actions will have the intended outcome. Hopefully.

Saw that Disney has started running commercials on how to 'save' on a Disney World trip. Good baramoter on the economy. When people can no longer spend $1k / day to hang out in hordes of crowds in FL, you'll know things are self adjusting