IU Golf Course

[Hoosier71]

For anyone interested in the current status of the IU golf course, Steve Smyers just posted the following on Twitter:



Looks like all of the shaping is pretty much done. Definitely seem to be much farther behind on schedule than I anticipated, as I thought that they would be finishing up with grassing at this point. Definitely looks like a late summer/early fall opening next year, at best...

 

[IU40IU]

For anyone interested in the current status of the IU golf course, Steve Smyers just posted the following on Twitter:

View embedded media

Looks like all of the shaping is pretty much done. Definitely seem to be much farther behind on schedule than I anticipated, as I thought that they would be finishing up with grassing at this point. Definitely looks like a late summer/early fall opening next year, at best...

Who is the original course designer? I can’t remember. Haven’t played there since I was at IU back in the mid 90s. Excited to play it once it’s finished.

 

[Hoosier71]

For anyone interested in the current status of the IU golf course, Steve Smyers just posted the following on Twitter:

View embedded media

Looks like all of the shaping is pretty much done. Definitely seem to be much farther behind on schedule than I anticipated, as I thought that they would be finishing up with grassing at this point. Definitely looks like a late summer/early fall opening next year, at best...

Who is the original course designer? I can’t remember. Haven’t played there since I was at IU back in the mid 90s. Excited to play it once it’s finished.

I’m not sure of who designed it originally. I thought that I remembered seeing that it was the golf coach at the time and a pro from Scotland, if I’m not mistaken.

 

[Chibooms]

For anyone interested in the current status of the IU golf course, Steve Smyers just posted the following on Twitter:

View embedded media

Looks like all of the shaping is pretty much done. Definitely seem to be much farther behind on schedule than I anticipated, as I thought that they would be finishing up with grassing at this point. Definitely looks like a late summer/early fall opening next year, at best...

Oh no! Where did all the trees go?!

 

[Hoosier71]

Oh no! Where did all the trees go?!

Haha! Amazing that it only took them about 50 years or so to figure out that they need the right kind of environment to actually effectively grow grass.

While I didn't want them to do a mass, wholesale clearing of trees, I'm glad that they removed the dead ones and thinned things out a bit to improve access to sunlight and improve air movement.

 

[stollcpa]

Haha! Amazing that it only took them about 50 years or so to figure out that they need the right kind of environment to actually effectively grow grass.

While I didn't want them to do a mass, wholesale clearing of trees, I'm glad that they removed the dead ones and thinned things out a bit to improve access to sunlight and improve air movement.

It’s the new fad. Take out all the trees. We had very few trees that came into play at Vicforia National but the few we had they’ve cut down.

Tom Meeks who set up USGA Championship courses for 30 years gave a speech at our member guest tournament years ago. He couldn’t get over himself bragging about the USGA making old courses take down 100s of 1000s of trees if they wanted a championship. A member of Inverness in Ohio stood up and asked him to tell us what the members there told the USGA about cutting down their trees. Lol.

 

[stollcpa]

For anyone interested in the current status of the IU golf course, Steve Smyers just posted the following on Twitter:

View embedded media

Looks like all of the shaping is pretty much done. Definitely seem to be much farther behind on schedule than I anticipated, as I thought that they would be finishing up with grassing at this point. Definitely looks like a late summer/early fall opening next year, at best...

Too bad we didn’t get our new course over 30 years ago. If I am not mistaken a new course was planned east of the current course in the early 80s. Nicklaus was going to donate his fee.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

It’s the new fad. Take out all the trees. We had very few trees that came into play at Vicforia National but the few we had they’ve cut down.

Tom Meeks who set up USGA Championship courses for 30 years gave a speech at our member guest tournament years ago. He couldn’t get over himself bragging about the USGA making old courses take down 100s of 1000s of trees if they wanted a championship. A member of Inverness in Ohio stood up and asked him to tell us what the members there told the USGA about cutting down their trees. Lol.

when they clear cut Oakmont, they actually cut down all the trees in the middle of the night, no warning to the members or any kind of vote, to keep the members from finding out what they were up to and stopping them. (and membership there no doubt costs a fortune).

no idea what's driving this insanity, but it sure isn't being driven by the desires of golfers.

obviously a small few with a lot of power have some perverted love for treeless golf courses.

 

[Hoosier71]

Too bad we didn’t get our new course over 30 years ago. If I am not mistaken a new course was planned east of the current course in the early 80s. Nicklaus was going to donate his fee.

While I was in school, around 2000, they had a plan in place for Nicklaus to build a new university course on Lake Griffy. I think that it was going to be a private club with a partnership with the university for the teams to use it, along with some limited student/faculty access. It was killed by environmentalists. Was supposed to have several holes on and around the lake. Would have been pretty cool, from what I remember seeing about it at the time, kind of a poor man's version of Nicklaus' Great Waters course at Reynolds Plantation in Georgia.

 

[Hoosier71]

It’s the new fad. Take out all the trees. We had very few trees that came into play at Vicforia National but the few we had they’ve cut down.

Tom Meeks who set up USGA Championship courses for 30 years gave a speech at our member guest tournament years ago. He couldn’t get over himself bragging about the USGA making old courses take down 100s of 1000s of trees if they wanted a championship. A member of Inverness in Ohio stood up and asked him to tell us what the members there told the USGA about cutting down their trees. Lol.

I don't know that it's a new "fad" so much as memberships and architects seeking to bring older courses back to their original design. Doesn't make much sense at Victoria, which is what 20 years old?

I'm a proponent of the trend towards this. It helps with the growth of good turfgrass and generally makes courses play with more options for players.

It's funny that you reference Inverness because they just completed a renovation that took out a ton of trees and brought back the original design aesthetic, shot values, etc. They are actually back in the discussion for major championships again, after not having a men's major since the 1993 PGA.

 

[Hoosier71]

when they clear cut Oakmont, they actually cut down all the trees in the middle of the night, no warning to the members or any kind of vote, to keep the members from finding out what they were up to and stopping them. (and membership there no doubt costs a fortune).

no idea what's driving this insanity, but it sure isn't being driven by the desires of golfers.

obviously a small few with a lot of power have some perverted love for treeless golf courses.

You are basically right about Oakmont. Essentially, they took out trees bit by bit until some members started to notice. Not sure that is the best approach, but Oakmont is solidly back in the US Open rotation now, since they've done the tree removal.

Most of the modern group of architects (Doak, Hanse, etc.) really have bought in to the tree removal trend. It goes back to the original design of the courses. When Oakmont was built, there were no trees on the course. The movement is to recreate the design as it existed at the time it was built and capturing the original intention of the architect. Plus, as I mentioned previously, there are myriad benefits to turfgrass, playing conditions, drainage, etc.

 

[stollcpa]

While I was in school, around 2000, they had a plan in place for Nicklaus to build a new university course on Lake Griffy. I think that it was going to be a private club with a partnership with the university for the teams to use it, along with some limited student/faculty access. It was killed by environmentalists. Was supposed to have several holes on and around the lake. Would have been pretty cool, from what I remember seeing about it at the time, kind of a poor man's version of Nicklaus' Great Waters course at Reynolds Plantation in Georgia.

That must be what I was thinking about. Had the period wrong of when it took place.

 

[stollcpa]

I don't know that it's a new "fad" so much as memberships and architects seeking to bring older courses back to their original design. Doesn't make much sense at Victoria, which is what 20 years old?

I'm a proponent of the trend towards this. It helps with the growth of good turfgrass and generally makes courses play with more options for players.

It's funny that you reference Inverness because they just completed a renovation that took out a ton of trees and brought back the original design aesthetic, shot values, etc. They are actually back in the discussion for major championships again, after not having a men's major since the 1993 PGA.

Wow didn’t realize Inverness had renovated. Back at the time Meek’s gave the speech at Victoria he indicated membership was against it and very hostile with him and USGA regarding removal of trees.

 

[Hoosier71]

Wow didn’t realize Inverness had renovated. Back at the time Meek’s gave the speech at Victoria he indicated membership was against it and very hostile with him and USGA regarding removal of trees.

The Inverness renovation just completed within the past few months. It looks pretty impressive and involved building a couple of new holes, removing trees, etc. Will be interesting to see if they can get a major within the next few years. I don't think that there are any openings for the next 10-12 years, but could see them getting something after that.

 

[Hoosier71]

That must be what I was thinking about. Had the period wrong of when it took place.

There may have been some other plans on the drawing board at various points. Just couldn't get it past the environmentalists in Bloomington.

 

[stollcpa]

There may have been some other plans on the drawing board at various points. Just couldn't get it past the environmentalists in Bloomington.

You’re correct about environmentalists. The one I am thinking about was going to be linked to the University like The Dye course at Purdue. I guess the students involved in turf management courses are involved in the course maintenance?

 

[i'vegotwinners]

While I was in school, around 2000, they had a plan in place for Nicklaus to build a new university course on Lake Griffy. I think that it was going to be a private club with a partnership with the university for the teams to use it, along with some limited student/faculty access. It was killed by environmentalists. Was supposed to have several holes on and around the lake. Would have been pretty cool, from what I remember seeing about it at the time, kind of a poor man's version of Nicklaus' Great Waters course at Reynolds Plantation in Georgia.

i do recall some discussion of building another course and Nicklaus's name being involved, but i highly doubt it would have been around Griffy.

and while i do seem to recall there being push back from environmentalists and tree huggers, i also highly doubt they were who actually killed it, or ever had the power to if IU had really wanted to go through with the project.

i believe IU was talking about using university land east/northeast and adjacent to the old course, and the lake incorporated into the design likely would have been "University Lake" back in those woods east of the old course, which i think perhaps the rd that wound through the old front 9 took you to after you went past 9 tee, (originally 8 tee).

as for the environmentalists, i do remember them weighing in, but i highly doubt they ever had even a fraction of the clout to kill the project if IU had wanted to go through with it.

as for the war on trees, this isn't something being driven by golfers or the golf community, but rather by a select few in positions of disproportionate power, pursuing their own perverted agenda while giving the finger to everyone else.

i highly doubt there is a nice wooded course in the country were the membership would vote to cut down many of the trees on, other than where diseased or isolated instances where a single tree might be targeted. (such as with Ike, and that one tree on Augusta he cursed because it always got him).

far more common, would be for the members to bemoan beloved trees lost in storms or to disease.

as for the old IU course. yes, the heavily wooded holes did need to have trees lining the fairways thinned out considerably.

being those trees weren't pines, thus no pine straw covering the bare ground, imo the perfect amount of thinning would have been just enough to grow grass between them and no more, which would have been considerable thinning, but still left many for woods lined fairways.

should have taken out the crap trees, left the primo most majestic ones.

i'm sure the new course will be very nice, like the many other newer style courses everywhere.

it just won't be the incredible destination course it could have been, had they properly renovated the original design.

no painter wants to restore an original masterpiece hanging in the museum, if he can replace it with one of his own, with his name on it, instead.

i think that's the mentality that killed what could have been something really special.

i have no problem with IU brass building a new course adjacent to the old one or anywhere else.

i have a huge problem with them destroying something that wasn't theirs to destroy, that could have been truly great with the right upgrades and renovation.

 

[stollcpa]

i do recall some discussion of building another course and Nicklaus's name being involved, but i highly doubt it would have been around Griffy.

and while i do seem to recall there being push back from environmentalists and tree huggers, i also highly doubt they were who actually killed it, or ever had the power to if IU had really wanted to go through with the project.

i believe IU was talking about using university land east/northeast and adjacent to the old course, and the lake incorporated into the design likely would have been "University Lake" back in those woods east of the old course, which i think perhaps the rd that wound through the old front 9 took you to after you went past 9 tee, (originally 8 tee).

as for the environmentalists, i do remember them weighing in, but i highly doubt they ever had even a fraction of the clout to kill the project if IU had wanted to go through with it.

as for the war on trees, this isn't something being driven by golfers or the golf community, but rather by a select few in positions of disproportionate power, pursuing their own perverted agenda while giving the finger to everyone else.

i highly doubt there is a nice wooded course in the country were the membership would vote to cut down many of the trees on, other than where diseased or isolated instances where a single tree might be targeted. (such as with Ike, and that one tree on Augusta he cursed because it always got him).

far more common, would be for the members to bemoan beloved trees lost in storms or to disease.

as for the old IU course. yes, the heavily wooded holes did need to have trees lining the fairways thinned out considerably.

being those trees weren't pines, thus no pine straw covering the bare ground, imo the perfect amount of thinning would have been just enough to grow grass between them and no more, which would have been considerable thinning, but still left many for woods lined fairways.

should have taken out the crap trees, left the primo most majestic ones.

i'm sure the new course will be very nice, like the many other newer style courses everywhere.

it just won't be the incredible destination course it could have been, had they properly renovated the original design.

no painter wants to restore an original masterpiece hanging in the museum, if he can replace it with one of his own, with his name on it, instead.

i think that's the mentality that killed what could have been something really special.

i have no problem with IU brass building a new course adjacent to the old one or anywhere else.

i have a huge problem with them destroying something that wasn't theirs to destroy, that could have been truly great with the right upgrades and renovation.

The course project I remember was east northeast of current course.

The story as I remember it was alumni weren’t paying attention and environmentalists killed it.

 

[Hoosier71]

While I was in school, around 2000, they had a plan in place for Nicklaus to build a new university course on Lake Griffy. I think that it was going to be a private club with a partnership with the university for the teams to use it, along with some limited student/faculty access. It was killed by environmentalists. Was supposed to have several holes on and around the lake. Would have been pretty cool, from what I remember seeing about it at the time, kind of a poor man's version of Nicklaus' Great Waters course at Reynolds Plantation in Georgia.

i do recall some discussion of building another course and Nicklaus's name being involved, but i highly doubt it would have been around Griffy.

and while i do seem to recall there being push back from environmentalists and tree huggers, i also highly doubt they were who actually killed it, or ever had the power to if IU had really wanted to go through with the project.

i believe IU was talking about using university land east/northeast and adjacent to the old course, and the lake incorporated into the design likely would have been "University Lake" back in those woods east of the old course, which i think perhaps the rd that wound through the old front 9 took you to after you went past 9 tee, (originally 8 tee).

as for the environmentalists, i do remember them weighing in, but i highly doubt they ever had even a fraction of the clout to kill the project if IU had wanted to go through with it.

as for the war on trees, this isn't something being driven by golfers or the golf community, but rather by a select few in positions of disproportionate power, pursuing their own perverted agenda while giving the finger to everyone else.

i highly doubt there is a nice wooded course in the country were the membership would vote to cut down many of the trees on, other than where diseased or isolated instances where a single tree might be targeted. (such as with Ike, and that one tree on Augusta he cursed because it always got him).

far more common, would be for the members to bemoan beloved trees lost in storms or to disease.

as for the old IU course. yes, the heavily wooded holes did need to have trees lining the fairways thinned out considerably.

being those trees weren't pines, thus no pine straw covering the bare ground, imo the perfect amount of thinning would have been just enough to grow grass between them and no more, which would have been considerable thinning, but still left many for woods lined fairways.

should have taken out the crap trees, left the primo most majestic ones.

i'm sure the new course will be very nice, like the many other newer style courses everywhere.

it just won't be the incredible destination course it could have been, had they properly renovated the original design.

no painter wants to restore an original masterpiece hanging in the museum, if he can replace it with one of his own, with his name on it, instead.

i think that's the mentality that killed what could have been something really special.

i have no problem with IU brass building a new course adjacent to the old one or anywhere else.

i have a huge problem with them destroying something that wasn't theirs to destroy, that could have been truly great with the right upgrades and renovation.

You may be right regarding the location of the Nicklaus course. I thought that it was Griffy, but so certainly could be wrong about that. I always heard that it was the environmentalists who killed it, but I wasn’t too plugged in at the time, so I don’t know if that is the sole reason it was killed, but I know that it was one reason.

As far as the “war on trees” as it pertains to the renovation of the IU course, we’ve had this discussion before and just come down on different sides. I hear what you are saying about the heavy treeline making the IU course unique. It was. That said, the conditioning of the course could not be maximized and the turf could never play firm and fast. I fall into the “width and angles are good” camp, where width on the course makes the game more enjoyable for the high handicapper, while making a good player think and give them different options to consider. Beyond that, though, I really think that the added ease to maintenance makes the move to remove trees the way to go. It is cheaper and easier to maintain, with fewer chemicals and energy required to maintain.

Regardless, just glad to see this project finally moving forward after decades of neglect.

 

[snowling]

https://www.thehoosiernetwork.com/2...w-iu-golf-course-with-architect-steve-smyers/

Go Hoosiers!

 

[Hoosier71]

https://www.thehoosiernetwork.com/2...w-iu-golf-course-with-architect-steve-smyers/

Go Hoosiers!

I saw that posted earlier on Twitter. Thanks for posting over here!

Lots of good info in this video and interview. I was a little surprised to see how far down the hill the clubhouse is going to be located from where I thought. I expected it to be at the top of the hill, where the parking lot is located.

 

[Chibooms]

You may be right regarding the location of the Nicklaus course. I thought that it was Griffy, but so certainly could be wrong about that. I always heard that it was the environmentalists who killed it, but I wasn’t too plugged in at the time, so I don’t know if that is the sole reason it was killed, but I know that it was one reason.

As far as the “war on trees” as it pertains to the renovation of the IU course, we’ve had this discussion before and just come down on different sides. I hear what you are saying about the heavy treeline making the IU course unique. It was. That said, the conditioning of the course could not be maximized and the turf could never play firm and fast. I fall into the “width and angles are good” camp, where width on the course makes the game more enjoyable for the high handicapper, while making a good player think and give them different options to consider. Beyond that, though, I really think that the added ease to maintenance makes the move to remove trees the way to go. It is cheaper and easier to maintain, with fewer chemicals and energy required to maintain.

Regardless, just glad to see this project finally moving forward after decades of neglect.

The Nicklaus course was definitely going to be near Lake Griffey. I'm not sure how much of it was going to border the lake though. I was at IU when the course was proposed and shot down.

The video someone attached was a solid look at parts of some of the holes of the new course. While yes many trees were taken down they were mainly due to the ash disease. The framing on that one hole looked plush, plenty of trees but far enough off the fairway as to not crowd the tee shot. Smyers also talked about planting more trees eventually. He also mentioned the back nine being more open with exposure to the road and the hospital. So hopefully over time they can frame that in with some trees but overall I'm excited to continue seeing the progress.

 

[Hoosier71]

The Nicklaus course was definitely going to be near Lake Griffey. I'm not sure how much of it was going to border the lake though. I was at IU when the course was proposed and shot down.

The video someone attached was a solid look at parts of some of the holes of the new course. While yes many trees were taken down they were mainly due to the ash disease. The framing on that one hole looked plush, plenty of trees but far enough off the fairway as to not crowd the tee shot. Smyers also talked about planting more trees eventually. He also mentioned the back nine being more open with exposure to the road and the hospital. So hopefully over time they can frame that in with some trees but overall I'm excited to continue seeing the progress.

I'm thinking you are right regarding the Griffy course, at least with regards to the most recent proposal around 2000 or so.

I've very impressed with the glimpses that the video gave of the course. I like Smyers' philosophy of "healing" the land by removing dead/diseased trees and creating a healthier environment. I was also impressed with the thought that went into the mix of turfgrasses that will be used on fairways, rough, etc. I'm a little disappointed that they opted to use zoysia for fairways, as I think it tends to play soft and slow and seems to hold water. Most of the courses that I have heard about losing their fairways recently were zoysia. I get the fact that there aren't a lot of great options for grass given the climate in Bloomington, but that's just a little complaint of mine. Glad to hear that they are planning on opening in the summer, with having it full-go in the fall.

I do question, a bit, when people say (Fred Glass included) that it will definitely be the best course in the Big Ten. Purdue has two outstanding courses, Ohio State's courses have hosted NCAA Championships and Web.com tour events, Michigan has a pair of excellent courses, one of which being the only McKenzie course in the midwest. Wisconsin also has an excellent course that hosts the Champions Tour. If this new course is better than those, we will really, really have something special.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

The Nicklaus course was definitely going to be near Lake Griffey. I'm not sure how much of it was going to border the lake though. I was at IU when the course was proposed and shot down.

The video someone attached was a solid look at parts of some of the holes of the new course. While yes many trees were taken down they were mainly due to the ash disease. The framing on that one hole looked plush, plenty of trees but far enough off the fairway as to not crowd the tee shot. Smyers also talked about planting more trees eventually. He also mentioned the back nine being more open with exposure to the road and the hospital. So hopefully over time they can frame that in with some trees but overall I'm excited to continue seeing the progress.

define "near".

the original course was maybe 500-600 yrds, (a par 5), from Lake Griffy. (and iirc, Griffy is mostly straight downhill from the original course).

Griffy and the surrounding land is a nature preserve, not university land, and not for sale to my knowledge.

like i stated above, i've little doubt the "lake" in the plans back then was University Lake, back in the woods behind old 9 tee, (originally 8 tee).

whether they planed on building in some "retention" lakes/ponds, i know not.

highly doubt they could have built immediately around Griffy Lake or on the immediate bordering land.

as for the environmentalists, if some donor had stepped forward with the money back then, i highly doubt any environmentalists had the clout to stop it any more than they did to stop the current build.

just because the environmentalists made noise back then, doesn't mean they were the ones who actually killed it.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

You may be right regarding the location of the Nicklaus course. I thought that it was Griffy, but so certainly could be wrong about that. I always heard that it was the environmentalists who killed it, but I wasn’t too plugged in at the time, so I don’t know if that is the sole reason it was killed, but I know that it was one reason.

As far as the “war on trees” as it pertains to the renovation of the IU course, we’ve had this discussion before and just come down on different sides. I hear what you are saying about the heavy treeline making the IU course unique. It was. That said, the conditioning of the course could not be maximized and the turf could never play firm and fast. I fall into the “width and angles are good” camp, where width on the course makes the game more enjoyable for the high handicapper, while making a good player think and give them different options to consider. Beyond that, though, I really think that the added ease to maintenance makes the move to remove trees the way to go. It is cheaper and easier to maintain, with fewer chemicals and energy required to maintain.

Regardless, just glad to see this project finally moving forward after decades of neglect.

i've played IU when it was firm and fast many times, and i've played it when the greens were great many times.

lots of wooded coursed have great turf.

is it easier with no or far less trees, of course. but there's a huge trade off there.

nice spin on you liking wide fairways though. bwg

as for maintenance, wooded areas do have added maintenance needs, but lack of or absence of trees is often compensated for by additional trapping, which also carries a cost factor.

wooded fairways like traps too, but don't need near as many as unwooded fairways.

neither trees nor sand are necessary, they are both just aesthetic as much as anything.

i can just let the rough grow, or shave banks, and build in just as much or more difficulty that way, as can be achieved with trees or sand.

but trees and sand add soooo much more beauty and framing.

like i said, the old course did need all woods immediately bordering the fairways thinned out considerably. at least enough to grow some grass between.

as for the high handicapper, i question the new course will be all that much friendlier to high handicappers than the old. (i can use multiple tees to make any course without a lot of brutal water, play relatively easy for those desiring so ).

as for guys that have no control off the tee, they should either stay away from champ courses, especially wooded ones, or assume the consequences without whining. (why wide open muni courses are usually preferred by high handicappers).

 

[Chibooms]

define "near".

the original course was maybe 500-600 yrds, (a par 5), from Lake Griffy. (and iirc, Griffy is mostly straight downhill from the original course).
I distinctly remember the arguments over a new course causing runoff of chemicals to... Lake Griffey. Now I don't know where exactly the proposed location of it was going to be and I didn't argue it was going to be right on the lake but somewhere near it. I'm sure there were multiple reasons why it never got off the ground but the main one back then was "environmentalists" but as you say if it wasn't for sale anyways then it really is moot.

A college buddy of mine wrote an IDS letter to the editor back when it was being discussed and I just checked with him and he confirmed the lake in question was Lake Griffey.

Time has past to dig up any records of articles, at least in my cursory search. But I think we can all agree this new reno is really shaping up to be a solid course. I trust it will take advantage of the rolling topography way better than the old course.

Griffy and the surrounding land is a nature preserve, not university land, and not for sale to my knowledge.

like i stated above, i've little doubt the "lake" in the plans back then was University Lake, back in the woods behind old 9 tee, (originally 8 tee).

whether they planed on building in some "retention" lakes/ponds, i know not.

highly doubt they could have built immediately around Griffy Lake or on the immediate bordering land.

as for the environmentalists, if some donor had stepped forward with the money back then, i highly doubt any environmentalists had the clout to stop it any more than they did to stop the current build.

just because the environmentalists made noise back then, doesn't mean they were the ones who actually killed it.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

you screwed up the quote box, which implied i said things you said.

as for your buddy, why would you think he has any credence here.

Griffy Lake, (once a muni water source for Btown, but long long ago), was the lake the environmentalists were in a huff about, as it gets all the runoff from that area.

i highly highly doubt though it was the lake being incorporated into the course design, as University Lake is in the middle of the land being mentioned at the time, and all the other reasons i mentioned in previous posts regarding Griffy Lake.

and as previously mentioned, i highly doubt the environmentalists were who actually killed the project, nor could have had IU really wanted to go through with it.

 

[Chibooms]

Yeah I screwed up the post, but I'm sure you could tell them apart. The basic gist is that people were up in arms that runoff from the new course would adversely affect Lake Griffy. As you said you thought it's downhill the whole way. Hell a course could easily fit in between the two lakes, not have any holes on the lake, and still have issues with runoff.

You asked me to define "near" earlier. Near enough it to cause runoff issues. That's it, beyond that we are saying the same thing.

 

[Hoops Cat]

My recollection is that environmentalists were the reason the new course never materialized in the late '90's, but that's just memory. And I'm not unhappy that it wasn't built. The group that was going to do it was known as the University Clubs, and they would build a club with a multi-tier private membership program, targeting alumni. They'd develop several, with the first (I think) at South Carolina, and they did others (including the Cardinal Club in Louisville). My thinking is that a public university golf course should be open to the public, and relatively affordably at that. The other thing I didn't like about that old proposal was that Nicklaus was going to design it. He sucks as a designer, in my opinion. Designs courses only he can play.

 

[Fro]

Embedding the video with Smyers from the article that IU Sports media created.

 

[UncleMark]

The group that was going to do it was known as the University Clubs, and they would build a club with a multi-tier private membership program, targeting alumni. They'd develop several, with the first (I think) at South Carolina, and they did others (including the Cardinal Club in Louisville). My thinking is that a public university golf course should be open to the public, and relatively affordably at that.

My vague recollection is along these lines, that the main objections were about the exclusivity of the project, rather than it being open and affordable.

 

[Walt542]

you screwed up the quote box, which implied i said things you said.

as for your buddy, why would you think he has any credence here.

Griffy Lake, (once a muni water source for Btown, but long long ago), was the lake the environmentalists were in a huff about, as it gets all the runoff from that area.

i highly highly doubt though it was the lake being incorporated into the course design, as University Lake is in the middle of the land being mentioned at the time, and all the other reasons i mentioned in previous posts regarding Griffy Lake.

and as previously mentioned, i highly doubt the environmentalists were who actually killed the project, nor could have had IU really wanted to go through with it.

Yes, the Nicholaus design was definitely going to be situated around the University Lake. As I remember the environmentalists did raise a lot of cane about the project but it was also, and primarily, the exclusiveness they planned that helped to kill the project. You are correct that the drop down to Griffey Lake is much too severe for consideration of a golf course.

I loved the trees on the old IU course. They were most beautiful in the spring when all the red buds and dogwoods lining the fairways would be in bloom. I’m not too sure they could have made a top notch golf course with that old layout though. But it does not matter, we will have a new one soon and I am really amped to get out there and play it.

 

[twenty02]

Course looks incredible....still plenty of tree lined holes.....really love that they are going with sodded zoysia fairways....Great turf for summer play.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Course looks incredible....still plenty of tree lined holes.....really love that they are going with sodded zoysia fairways....Great turf for summer play.

that's a lot of sod.

do new courses generally sod vs seed, other than specific areas?

 

[twenty02]

that's a lot of sod.

do new courses generally sod vs seed, other than specific areas?

Sodding is usually only used on higher end construction....but they've got a big budget. Many courses only sod on areas with steep slopes, like around bunkers/tees. They are even sodding the first section of rough, it appears.

Obviously gives you good playability almost right from opening. Rather than taking a season (or two) of growing in. Also greatly reduces weeds....so reduces need for loads of herbicide.

But yeah....Smyers said the sod was having to be sourced from 3 different farms, so it's a lot.

And there were some delays there. That's as far north as you can go with that grass.

I think this ends up being one of the top 10 courses in the state when it opens.

 

[Hoosier71]

Sodding is usually only used on higher end construction....but they've got a big budget. Many courses only sod on areas with steep slopes, like around bunkers/tees. They are even sodding the first section of rough, it appears.

Obviously gives you good playability almost right from opening. Rather than taking a season (or two) of growing in. Also greatly reduces weeds....so reduces need for loads of herbicide.

But yeah....Smyers said the sod was having to be sourced from 3 different farms, so it's a lot.

And there were some delays there. That's as far north as you can go with that grass.

I think this ends up being one of the top 10 courses in the state when it opens.

Was talking to a buddy who owns a course in southern Indiana this weekend and he was a little surprised at the decision to sod with zoysia, due to being far enough north that they could have gone with bent. I'm a bit surprised as well and, generally, don't really like zoysia. Based on what Smyers said, though, it sounds like it should be able to do well with less water and pesticide, which sort of follows with part of their mission in redoing the course and attempting to make it more environmentally friendly.

I drove by there on Saturday for the first time since the project has started and was a little surprised to see how many trees had been cleared out. Just having been used to seeing it for so many years, it looked much different.

Based on what I have seen (plans and photos), I think a top-10 state ranking would probably be appropriate. All speculation, but what would clearly be better? Crooked Stick, Victoria, French Lick-Dye...what else? Seems like a bunch of courses will fall into the bucket at the next level...Kampen, French Lick-Ross, etc. I think that the IU course will probably fall into that second group.

 

[IUAPEX]

Sodding is usually only used on higher end construction....but they've got a big budget. Many courses only sod on areas with steep slopes, like around bunkers/tees. They are even sodding the first section of rough, it appears.

Obviously gives you good playability almost right from opening. Rather than taking a season (or two) of growing in. Also greatly reduces weeds....so reduces need for loads of herbicide.

But yeah....Smyers said the sod was having to be sourced from 3 different farms, so it's a lot.

And there were some delays there. That's as far north as you can go with that grass.

I think this ends up being one of the top 10 courses in the state when it opens.

Was talking to a buddy who owns a course in southern Indiana this weekend and he was a little surprised at the decision to sod with zoysia, due to being far enough north that they could have gone with bent. I'm a bit surprised as well and, generally, don't really like zoysia. Based on what Smyers said, though, it sounds like it should be able to do well with less water and pesticide, which sort of follows with part of their mission in redoing the course and attempting to make it more environmentally friendly.

I drove by there on Saturday for the first time since the project has started and was a little surprised to see how many trees had been cleared out. Just having been used to seeing it for so many years, it looked much different.

Based on what I have seen (plans and photos), I think a top-10 state ranking would probably be appropriate. All speculation, but what would clearly be better? Crooked Stick, Victoria, French Lick-Dye...what else? Seems like a bunch of courses will fall into the bucket at the next level...Kampen, French Lick-Ross, etc. I think that the IU course will probably fall into that second group.

I’m in Greensboro ... we sodded the course with Zoysia and it has been very durable and provides excellent lies by the way.

 

[twenty02]

Was talking to a buddy who owns a course in southern Indiana this weekend and he was a little surprised at the decision to sod with zoysia, due to being far enough north that they could have gone with bent. I'm a bit surprised as well and, generally, don't really like zoysia. Based on what Smyers said, though, it sounds like it should be able to do well with less water and pesticide, which sort of follows with part of their mission in redoing the course and attempting to make it more environmentally friendly.

I drove by there on Saturday for the first time since the project has started and was a little surprised to see how many trees had been cleared out. Just having been used to seeing it for so many years, it looked much different.

Based on what I have seen (plans and photos), I think a top-10 state ranking would probably be appropriate. All speculation, but what would clearly be better? Crooked Stick, Victoria, French Lick-Dye...what else? Seems like a bunch of courses will fall into the bucket at the next level...Kampen, French Lick-Ross, etc. I think that the IU course will probably fall into that second group.

Bent takes a lot of care/water during the summer heat....and Bloomington is really a transitional zone. Can get really easy to fry bent fairways if you get rain and then humid heat (normal S Indiana summer).

I have zoysia in my lawn.... it's the most maintenance free lawn ever.... grows slow, needs very little fertilizer, loves the heat and requires very little water. I love playing on good zoysia fairways.... ball just sits up like it's on a little tee.

I think this will be better than most any others in that 2nd grouping. Thinking wolf run V2....being a good bit more playable.

 

[RBB89]

Great thread!

 

[TheShadow1087]

Was talking to a buddy who owns a course in southern Indiana this weekend and he was a little surprised at the decision to sod with zoysia, due to being far enough north that they could have gone with bent. I'm a bit surprised as well and, generally, don't really like zoysia. Based on what Smyers said, though, it sounds like it should be able to do well with less water and pesticide, which sort of follows with part of their mission in redoing the course and attempting to make it more environmentally friendly.

I drove by there on Saturday for the first time since the project has started and was a little surprised to see how many trees had been cleared out. Just having been used to seeing it for so many years, it looked much different.

Based on what I have seen (plans and photos), I think a top-10 state ranking would probably be appropriate. All speculation, but what would clearly be better? Crooked Stick, Victoria, French Lick-Dye...what else? Seems like a bunch of courses will fall into the bucket at the next level...Kampen, French Lick-Ross, etc. I think that the IU course will probably fall into that second group.

Purgatory is really good. I believe it's ranked as one of Indiana's best public courses.