Woody's path to success...
- Thread starter IUNorth
- Start date
I completely understand your mental efforts to find some way to have hope about next year if Woody is still in the big seat. Unfortunately, I think there’s a better chance Woody shows up next fall with that big Afro from his playing days.
playing devil's advocate here....been another long work week.
I don't know, that sure sounds like a lot of work.
If I'm in my mid 60s, already set financially, with my best buddy running cover for me on the BOT, and knowing I have a 7 or 8 digit golden parachute waiting for me next year regardless....do I really have the drive to do everything you mentioned?
There is a lot of work to do, to get this program where CMW said he wanted to take it (B1G and National championships). Words are cheap. I have not often seen the day-to-day drive in him to convince me he is the man for the job.
I am hoping he proves me wrong. But my CEO always reminds us. "HOPE...is not a strategy".
Like Fletch? He's 6 foot 6....six nine with the afro.
Some things just do not work out. It was clear after a couple years that was the situation with archie and it is the same now. There is reason many people were stunned we hired an nba coach with zero college experience. It never works out is why. It worked out a couple years for Juwauan Howard but he had phil martelli right next to him ont he sideline helping him. Now it has all gone to h... and Juwauan is probably done. He had good recruits at first but it dropped off fast just like woodsons recruiting is dropping off, and both need very high talent to win imo.
Maybe he can get a plea deal of some sort that includes house arrest. They slap an ankle monitor on him that prevents him from leaving Monroe County. Problem solved.
Woody’s path to success is Xavier Johnson because we’ve been so unstoppable in the games he has played. With Xavier leaving, I expect our championship level results to take a real hit.
The title was "Woody's path to success".
If IU brings him back for next year, I'm not so certain that isn't a sign they're prepared to bring him back for multiple more years. We've had pretty mediocre coaches since Knight for longer than 4 years. Any semblence of success/improvement next year, and he's back for a 5th year, I'm sure.
So...what can WOODY do to find success?
I think we have some decent pieces to build around. IF he resolves to add the right kinds of players around them.
If he were to somehow be able to land a kid or two that are in any way similar to guys like Butler or Mitchell were at Baylor a couple years ago, or Shead or Cryer at Houston, or Newton at UConn...And or if he were able to land anyone like Williams at Texas Tech, Shannon for Illinois...
And if he sends Ware to the NBA, he's going to get looks and attention from bigs with legitimate NBA aspirations and abilities.
Starting PG...Jamaal Shead type player
Starting 2G...LJ Cryer type player, maybe a player like the kid from Harvard
Starting 3...McNeeley
Starting 4...Malik
Starting 5...Athletic 3 and D type NBA level big man, that compliments Malik well
Galloway, Cupps, Newton coming off the bench.
That team, without ANY changes by Woody, would be better than this years team, and probably push for an NCAA tournament at large.
Start allowing improvements to the coaching staff, Woody fully embracing a new style, etc... and its not a stretch that we'd see dramatic improvements.
I'm not predicting any of this will happen. I don't think its likely. I'm just trying to provide some framework for how Woody COULD be successful at IU.
Then don’t have to recruit an entire new roster the following year? That’s putting band aids on a bullet hole
Yes, and that’s how I read it. I’m just wondering if success for Woody is helpful or harmful to the IU basketball program’s future.
Agree in all likelihood...but to counter...
Under my scenario...4 out of the 8 main contributors would be returning players. And 1 of them is a current recruit.
And if either/both the starting guards would have multiple years of eligibility, that'd bring some more stability. That would allow us to have 3 returning high level guys, with Cupps and Newton off the bench. And if he sent a couple guys to the NBA in Malik and whoever my hypothetical center would be...he'd be in on many talented bigs again the following year.
Its not nearly as ominous a challenge as it seems. Woody has landed talented, highly coveted and sought after kids, in the spring recruiting cycles. He just needs to bring in the RIGHT kids this year.
I don't buy into "Suck for Luck" types of strategies, even in pro sports where there is a tangible benefit at the end of it.
In college, put your best foot forward, always try to win and improve...
Obviously I get the point you're making. And I've posted many times I want IU to be a Natty contender again. And possibly like you, I don't think Woody has that in him, no matter how much he improves.
But I can't get myself to the point where I think the best thing for IU is for them to suck. If I knew, for certain, who the next hire was going to be...like you do in an NFL draft type scenario, maybe. But that doesn't seem possible right now. So...might as well be good and enjoy it more.
I am not sold that is a sound strategy. Recruit and develop. Woody needs veterans that can create a culture.
Where did I say anything about losing?
I said we need to rebuild the foundation of the program. And I asked: If we bring MW back for 2 seasons, even if we are better is that good or bad for the long term health of the program?
I understand that the unknown is stressful. Stability with real improvement may sound appealing. But, maybe it’s better to rebuild from the ground up? And, even if we opt for bringing him back (and everything works out like you hope for), it’s possible we still have to rebuild everything anyhow.
My point was simply that Walsh is the only assistant that has something to show for his recruiting efforts, recently anyway
When you have to fill your roster via the portal year after year it is not a recipe for success. The top teams simply do not have to fill their team from the portal . They load up in the fall.
The portal is meant for one or two guys to plug a few holes not fill 75% of your roster. Kansas State did it one year in their coach's first year nobody is doing it in year four except us that I can see. Still amazing to we that woodson could only land one recruit las fall when he had like five open grants.
Just heard the assembly call guys said he wold have to hit four or five grand slam guys in the portal to be good next year. That means he wil have to beat out the top teams in the country not once but four to five times.
I got blasted on here when I was questioning going after Fland, Harper, Queen, Liam as our class. You have to have depth and a core to build off. Not recruit a bunch of one and dones with NIL money and no care of winning or losing.
I was told how smart it was to save the grant last spring because 2024 was going to be monster class for woodson. And all I heard from people like rajohns was we are in on more top 50 players then ever in IU history. But this is not for participation trophies we only got one of them when we had like five open spots. Now we scramble to fill a roster based on what may be available this spring. Unreal.
I mean if you are good enough to get enough of them like Kentucky or Duke it can be a strategy but not at Indiana. Woodson is not good enough to get enough of them or even close. You need three or four of these guys a year for the strategy to work.
~$300k/year to land one recruit? And you’ve got virtually unlimited resources to get it done? Sign me up. Easiest sales job in the history of sales.
Also woodson would have to put a team together this spring to win next year as his seat will be the hottest seat in the country. They will be one year players and not guys who will build a culture for the future.
Yes, once in awhile but I don't deal in conjecture or assumption, nor do I know the future, am not one of many facial expression/body language experts.. and certainly can't read minds. fwiw every mind reader I've met has been completely FOS..
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Woody mentoring/teaching a coach? Isn't that analogous to a blind man teaching someone how to paint?
Dolson was mentored/taught by other greats in the IU athletic department, like Surfboard Fred.
Doesn’t mean I am claiming to be a mind reader when I guess what someone might do based on their actions as coach the last three years.
Woodson has not done a good job. Maybe he will have an epiphany and change. We will see next year.
Yes. And times have changed. The fact that previous failing coaches were given more years should not be a major factor in the Woodson decision. Cutting the cord from those previous coaches was a tougher decision because rebuilding with a new coach meant that you were kind of starting from scratch building a winning roster. So you had to put a lot of weight on the pain of starting over. Not so any more. In today’s environment, the dynamics of the decision are quite different. One perspective that decision makers can use is to simply ask where the program might be with Woodson over the next 2 years vs where it could be with someone else. You have to think that an objective view of this perspective would not favor Woodson.
How about finding a coach who can already do these things? Woodson can't.
Mgbako is shooting too much for his low percentage, and he plays defense like someone who just found out defense was a "thing". He would be coming off the bench if McNeely was already here.
I'll give him a break for being a hard working, well-grounded freshman. (Tongue in cheek).
I’ve never seen a worse defender. AAU is bad but I thought you would have to play some defense in your high school years. He is so upright and slow with no instincts (including rebounding). Crazy.
I like Woody and my heart is breaking for him this year, because I think it's likely that without injuries this might well have been an NCAA tourney team. But he's in his 60s, and I think his hire was based on the hope that he could turn the program around in 3-4 years. That hope is now probably gone, and kids don't want to go to a school where they're not sure how long the coach will be around. So IU should be making plans to find someone younger when Woody departs. We can only hope that things will turn around next year.
