Get rid of the ballots

Bowlmania

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Thats weird because the stats in the Tweet are for those states that do just that - send ballots to registered voters. Further only 3 states and DC have moved to this system for this election. Five states have been doing this for some time. So you really have nothing to worry about.
  • Eight states, in addition to Washington, DC, will be conducting a primarily vote-by-mail election in November (CA*, CO, DC*, HI, NV*, OR, UT, VT*, WA)
  • 34 states allow voters to request a mail ballots with no excuse (AL*, AK, AR*, AZ, CT*, DE*, FL, GA, ID, IL*, IA*, KS, ME, MA*, MD, MI*, MN, MO*, MT, NE, NH*, NJ, NM, NC, ND, OH*, OK, PA, RI, SD, VA, WV*, WI, WY)
  • Eight states require an excuse to cast a ballot by mail (IN, KY, LA, MS, NY, SC, TN*, TX)
I think it's nine states plus the District that send out unsolicited ballots, but you're right - - five states have been doing this for some time with no issues.

Also, of these nine states, most are already solidly blue and only one (Nevada) is a swing state but with just six electoral votes, so this is much ado about nothing. But Trump loves the issue because his supporters, unaware of these details, eat it up and it's additional nonsense that will support his bullshit post-election claim that the election was rigged.
 

Cortez88

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I think it's nine states plus the District that send out unsolicited ballots, but you're right - - five states have been doing this for some time with no issues.

Also, of these nine states, most are already solidly blue and only one (Nevada) is a swing state but with just six electoral votes, so this is much ado about nothing. But Trump loves the issue because his supporters, unaware of these details, eat it up and it's additional nonsense that will support his bullshit post-election claim that the election was rigged.
The current 538 polling average has Biden +6.4 in NV. So yeah, all the mail in vote states are pretty much in the books. Aside from solid red Utah, they will all be blue.
 
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UncleMark

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The current 538 polling average has Biden +6.4 in NV. So yeah, all the mail in vote states are pretty much in the books. Aside from solid red Utah, they will all be blue.
And Trump will point to them as proof the election was rigged mail in voting.
 
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jet812

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When exactly did Trump ever "have the gloves on"? When he was tweeting conspiracy theories about Obama's birth certificate or how the Admin "mismanaged" the epidemics they dealt with circa 2010-2014? Or all the times he claimed Obama "ignored" some imagined crisis to play golf?



Just a friendly hint...If you want to play the "bosides" angle and try to come off as MOR, it might actually lend some credence to your claim if you actually made posts that reflected your "independence", rather than always just attacking the board's "liberals"...

Here's an example, which you may or may not have been guilty of (honestly don't remember)...

It's ridiculous for any GOP member or supporter to criticize 2019 House Democrats for daring to "Impeach" Trump based on precedents that were set in 1994. When GOP members of Congress INSISTED that Clinton AG Appointee Janet Reno appoint a Special Prosecutor to investigate Clinton's "possible involvement" in the death (suicide) of Vince Foster, then the rules that Trump AG Bill Barr SHOULD HAVE FOLLOWED when approached by members of the opposition party to investigate possible Executive Branch malfeasance were basically set in stone.

When Barr failed to do so, he left Dems in the House no choice but to undertake their role as monitors of Executive action on their own. The later hypocrisy and reversals of standards from people like Lindsey Graham and Kenny Starr are just the cherry on top of the sundae comprised of the GOP's reversal of ethics you now accuse the Dems of...

Anyone who is truly "Bosides" would KNOW that...;)
Simply pointing out that a poster (from the left) has been suggesting that ethics go out the window. As someone in the middle, I find the irony amusing, & the self-righteous leftists on this board provide many more opportunities for criticism than the right...;);););)

and Trump should have not only been impeached but prosecuted criminally for what he’s done & will do, so you must have me confused with someone else if you think I’ve been defending him or the scoundrel McConell. I really don’t have issues with left wing politicians so much as the hypocrites on the board here that support them...
 
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Cortez88

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Clearly the Trump campaign doesn’t believe mail in voting in inherently fraudulent, but rather they don't want Biden votes to count. They want to nullify Americans’ votes just because they won’t win. They can piss off.

 

hoot1

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And Hillz why should only votes received by Election Day count? If they are postmarked on or before that day they should count. This is a Constitutional right we are talking about. Do you really want to take away someone’s vote because the mail was a day late? And why? Their vote is as valid as any other vote. I say we count all the votes.
Some argue it is a privilege and not a right given state legislatures can set rules which prohibit voters such as felons from voting.

These legislatures can also install procedures which can make voting accessible and easy or comparatively difficult. Local boards can also play a role in all this. Many argue making voting too easy as in mail in voting lend itself to fraud.

It also can be argued that making voting somewhat difficult results in an electorate which is more dedicated and thus more likely to cast an intelligent vote.
 

Bowlmania

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It also can be argued that making voting somewhat difficult results in an electorate which is more dedicated and thus more likely to cast an intelligent vote.
Are you talking about those throngs of MAGA hat-wearing voters who will show up in person on Election Day to cast an intelligent vote, believing with all their heart that "Radical Left/Commie Joe" is a satanic, cannibalistic pedophile?
 

hoot1

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Are you talking about those throngs of MAGA hat-wearing voters who will show up in person on Election Day to cast an intelligent vote, believing with all their heart that "Radical Left/Commie Joe" is a satanic, cannibalistic pedophile?
BMania, guess the folks you describe might be included in what some call a dedicated voter who will proudly show up at the polls thinking he is an intelligent patriot.
 

ButHerEmails

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I think it's nine states plus the District that send out unsolicited ballots, but you're right - - five states have been doing this for some time with no issues.

Also, of these nine states, most are already solidly blue and only one (Nevada) is a swing state but with just six electoral votes, so this is much ado about nothing. But Trump loves the issue because his supporters, unaware of these details, eat it up and it's additional nonsense that will support his bullshit post-election claim that the election was rigged.
Unsolicited ballots, or unsolicited ballot applications? That’s a pretty big goddam difference.
 
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TommyCracker

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I am skeptical of the security of blind-mailed ballots to voters who don't formally request them. I only takes a few of these 'found caches' to rouse the rabble.

Still, I am not overly concerned. I think there will be more legal challenges this year, but only related to the expanded numbers. I do think only ballots received by election day should be considered.
I've heard this echoed from many of my right wing friends and I can only give you my experience in Minnesota.

I've never used mail in voting.

I got an APPLICATION in the mail, not a ballot in August.

That application asked me if I wanted to vote by mail (I'm a registered voter).

I filled out everything (social, MN drivers license) sent it in and just got my ballot this Monday.

On that ballot I had to fill it out, use one of my ssn or driver's license and then sign it. That ballot had a upc.

I had to stick that in an official envelope, then that in another and then finally that in the given return envelope....all of them sealed.

I voted Biden by the way ;-)

Anyway, the misunderstanding here in Minnesota is they aren't sending out random ballots to dead people or in bulk. That's a lie. They send out applications.

Huge difference.
 
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TommyCracker

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He's not concerned he's just spewing lies and propaganda to help gaslight the public. He's not worried, he's a liar,
I mean he pulled the same move in 2016....why would anyone expect anything different?

It's the easiest trick in the book on the 'if you don't get your way' decision tree.

Claim you were cheated out of it.

Normally a person needs to have a strong reputation for it to really work but Trump has been crying wolf his entire life, and his sheep keep freaking out.
 

VanPastorMan

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If the remaining Republicans are truly patriotic, this should be their red line. This is how we become Belarus. He’s scared. He knows he’s going to lose. He will claim massive mail in vote fraud with no evidence and claim he is entitled to reelection.

Some posters will claim we can’t listen to what Trump actually says. But we must. He’s dead serious here because he has no other path. He’s desperate.

Trump will gladly destroy this country for personal gain. I hope this is even too much for the remaining Republicans. Because if it is not, we are headed for a very bad place.

Just recently in Pennsylvania overseas mail in votes from the military were found in the trash. Most of them were votes for Trump. They were opened and thrown out. I thought Hillary Clinton said, "every vote should count"? https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/us-...stigating-small-number-mail/story?id=73230513
 

cosmickid

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I posted because it seems odd to me, in the midst of arguments made here about the security and safety of mailing ballots, that these stories about "accidents" keep popping up. Makes ya go 'hmmmm'...
So who has anything to gain from all these stories? Like the 9 ballots (later revised to 7) that were supposedly "discarded" in Luzerne Co Pennsylvania? Now these were all reportedly "Trump votes" (according to the DOJ), but several former DOJ officials and people involved with elections are questioning why the DOJ would even be disclosing who the votes were for. A lot of people are calling that "highly irregular", and totally out of character with the way the DOJ should be acting...

Strange how in a county which (just like the County in the other story in WI) went for Trump by double digits an insignificant amount of Trump votes are suddenly discovered to have been discarded. Clearly, 9 votes are not going to sway an election, but yet with all the spotlight and focus on "mail voter fraud" we're supposed to believe that some disgruntled Dems actually tried to commit fraud and destroy 9 Trump votes?

So exactly what are these "disgruntled Dems" supposed to gain? All it does is give a PR boost to Trump's conspiracy theories, and allow the DOJ to make public statements that these were "Trump votes". The Dems clearly have NOTHING to gain by a wacky plot to "steal" 9 Trump votes, but clearly, the GOP plays it for all the PR value they can muster and people like you apparently agree with them. And what was it any Dems have to gain?

  • "The Department of Justice released two statements on Thursday announcing an investigation into "potential issues with mail-in ballots" in Luzerne County, Pennsylvania.
  • The first statement said a "small number of military ballots were discarded," investigators had "recovered nine ballots at this time," and "all nine ballots were cast for presidential candidate Donald Trump."
  • That statement was deleted from the DOJ's website, and a revised statement that was released shortly afterward said seven of the nine ballots were cast for Trump and that it was unknown whom the remaining two were cast for.
  • Both statements set off alarm bells with election experts and DOJ veterans who said they likely violated the department's policy and appeared to be politically motivated in light of Trump's baseless attacks on voting by mail.
  • It was unclear whether the ballots the statement said were "discarded" were cast as part of the primary or general election, and experts said it was also highly unusual for the statement to disclose whom voters cast their ballots for."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/justice-department-released-bizarre-statement-211019499.html

And isn't it strange that none of the statements mentioned anything about down ballot races. For example which Congressional candidates these "discarded ballots" were marked to vote for?

I'd say if this was 30,000 ballots or so, a sensible person could argue that the Dems were likely involved. But we are talking NINE ballots,...

Ya know, it's almost like Team Trump chose 9 ballots to sacrifice in the PR war. Sort of similar to the way we just found out today that the GOP has been using GOP ACTIVISTS in campaign ads and labeling them as "concerned voters". Of course, you'll note the ad featuring the GOP operative from Georgia is not airing in Georgia. You know where people know her, and plenty of folks might be able to point out she's a phony...

"Donald Trump’s campaign has been accused of running ads with Republican political operatives posing as “real people”.

In one advert an unnamed woman calls Trump the greatest president ever for small business owners, and claimed Joe Biden had never achieved anything in 47 years in politics.

The woman, Kim Sherk, is actually the president of the Georgia Federation of Republican Women, according to gizmodo.com.

“As a small business owner, President Trump has been the greatest president we have seen,” said Kim Sherk in the video"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-campaign-accused-running-ads-001350591.html
 
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cosmickid

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HooDatGuy

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So who has anything to gain from all these stories? Like the 9 ballots (later revised to 7) that were supposedly "discarded" in Luzerne Co Pennsylvania? Now these were all reportedly "Trump votes" (according to the DOJ), but several former DOJ officials and people involved with elections are questioning why the DOJ would even be disclosing who the votes were for. A lot of people are calling that "highly irregular", and totally out of character with the way the DOJ should be acting...

Strange how in a county which (just like the County in the other story in WI) went for Trump by double digits an insignificant amount of Trump votes are suddenly discovered to have been discarded. Clearly, 9 votes are not going to sway an election, but yet with all the spotlight and focus on "mail voter fraud" we're supposed to believe that some disgruntled Dems actually tried to commit fraud and destroy 9 Trump votes?

So exactly what are these "disgruntled Dems" supposed to gain? All it does is give a PR boost to Trump's conspiracy theories, and allow the DOJ to make public statements that these were "Trump votes". The Dems clearly have NOTHING to gain by a wacky plot to "steal" 9 Trump votes, but clearly, the GOP plays it for all the PR value they can muster and people like you apparently agree with them. And what was it any Dems have to gain?

  • "The Department of Justice released two statements on Thursday announcing an investigation into "potential issues with mail-in ballots" in Luzerne County, Pennsylvania.
  • The first statement said a "small number of military ballots were discarded," investigators had "recovered nine ballots at this time," and "all nine ballots were cast for presidential candidate Donald Trump."
  • That statement was deleted from the DOJ's website, and a revised statement that was released shortly afterward said seven of the nine ballots were cast for Trump and that it was unknown whom the remaining two were cast for.
  • Both statements set off alarm bells with election experts and DOJ veterans who said they likely violated the department's policy and appeared to be politically motivated in light of Trump's baseless attacks on voting by mail.
  • It was unclear whether the ballots the statement said were "discarded" were cast as part of the primary or general election, and experts said it was also highly unusual for the statement to disclose whom voters cast their ballots for."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/justice-department-released-bizarre-statement-211019499.html

And isn't it strange that none of the statements mentioned anything about down ballot races. For example which Congressional candidates these "discarded ballots" were marked to vote for?

I'd say if this was 30,000 ballots or so, a sensible person could argue that the Dems were likely involved. But we are talking NINE ballots,...

Ya know, it's almost like Team Trump chose 9 ballots to sacrifice in the PR war. Sort of similar to the way we just found out today that the GOP has been using GOP ACTIVISTS in campaign ads and labeling them as "concerned voters". Of course, you'll note the ad featuring the GOP operative from Georgia is not airing in Georgia. You know where people know her, and plenty of folks might be able to point out she's a phony...

"Donald Trump’s campaign has been accused of running ads with Republican political operatives posing as “real people”.

In one advert an unnamed woman calls Trump the greatest president ever for small business owners, and claimed Joe Biden had never achieved anything in 47 years in politics.

The woman, Kim Sherk, is actually the president of the Georgia Federation of Republican Women, according to gizmodo.com.

“As a small business owner, President Trump has been the greatest president we have seen,” said Kim Sherk in the video"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-campaign-accused-running-ads-001350591.html
Putting aside your conspiratorial musings...

How many people’s votes being discarded is an acceptable amount in your eyes?

I’m not under the illusion that every election ever has counted every vote correctly, but mail ins on the scale that Democrats are advocating for, is accepting the fact that we will have more miscounted/ uncounted ballots than any presidential election in history.

But you can live with that if your guy wins.
 

zeke4ahs

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Putting aside your conspiratorial musings...

How many people’s votes being discarded is an acceptable amount in your eyes?

I’m not under the illusion that every election ever has counted every vote correctly, but mail ins on the scale that Democrats are advocating for, is accepting the fact that we will have more miscounted/ uncounted ballots than any presidential election in history.

But you can live with that if your guy wins.
Kind of like how you guys can ignore foreign interference in our elections, or actually INVITE foreign interference in our election...if it helps YOUR guy?
 

cosmickid

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Putting aside your conspiratorial musings...

How many people’s votes being discarded is an acceptable amount in your eyes?

I’m not under the illusion that every election ever has counted every vote correctly, but mail ins on the scale that Democrats are advocating for, is accepting the fact that we will have more miscounted/ uncounted ballots than any presidential election in history.

But you can live with that if your guy wins.
How are votes "being discarded"? Nine meaningless votes were supposedly "discarded" in PA, and a mail vehicle lost mail, including ballots, in WI? Apparently, it's easy to claim it's the work of Dems, although trying to provide a rational reason for some "dem" to pull such an obvious and hopeless trick strains credibility to anyone who isn't a QAnon adherent.

What exactly is the motivation from some nameless Dem to engage in this? This is basically right out of the Lee Atwood/Roger Stone playbook- commit meaningless sabotage and blame the "Dems", even though it's basically impossible to define exactly how any of this would remotely "benefit" anyone that supports Biden.

Let's say I'm a Biden supporter and am well aware that Trump and his minions are looking for any excuse to further criticize and condemn "mail-in voting". So let me grab 9 votes and throw them in a dumpster where they'll miraculously be discovered. I have absolutely NOTHING to gain (as opposed to Trump who has everything to gain) but let me pull a totally ridiculous move and somehow fall right into this PR nightmare...

Yeah, that sounds totally plausible to me... Apparently, you believe we really are that stupid?
 
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Cortez88

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Just recently in Pennsylvania overseas mail in votes from the military were found in the trash. Most of them were votes for Trump. They were opened and thrown out. I thought Hillary Clinton said, "every vote should count"? https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/us-...stigating-small-number-mail/story?id=73230513
I addressed this incident earlier in this thread. You are incorrect. Again.

Edit to add - Let’s all remember that actual voting and counting is done at the county level in each state. Thousands of counties across the country. Typically with the aid of thousands of volunteers. Every election will have mistakes being made by some of these people. They are human after all. But we must not let Trump or his right wing media surrogates to push the narrative that these mistakes are Democrat hit jobs to hurt Trump. We will vote. Our votes will be counted and Trump will lose. He knows this and that’s why he’s peddling these baseless conspiracies. Don’t buy his bull shit.
 
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ButHerEmails

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Nine states and DC are sending out unsolicited mail-in ballots to all registered voters.
Ok. What’s your point? Are you automatically assuming everyone will vote twice? Are you assuming someone will harvest ballots like that republican in NC or SC (whichever it was). It’ll be sort of obvious if the vote totals in those states are suddenly twice that of the registered voter population.
 

Aloha Hoosier

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There is a reason many in the GOP feel the right to vote should be limited to "homeowners"...

You've hit the nail on the head here. They'd much rather it be easier to exercise the right to own a gun than it is to exercise the right to vote. I honestly think many on the Right feel there should be "layers" when it comes to what constitutes a Right. I even sense that sentiment among some on this board...
What? I’ve not heard any Republican ever advocate limiting the vote to home owners.
 

Bowlmania

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Ok. What’s your point? Are you automatically assuming everyone will vote twice? Are you assuming someone will harvest ballots like that republican in NC or SC (whichever it was). It’ll be sort of obvious if the vote totals in those states are suddenly twice that of the registered voter population.
Dude, calm down. You asked if it was ballots or applications and I simply answered your question. If you had bothered to read some of the earlier posts in the thread, including #41, you would have understood that my point is that Trump's bitching about unsolicited ballots is much ado about nothing.
 
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ButHerEmails

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Dude, calm down. You asked if it was ballots or applications and I simply answered your question. If you had bothered to read some of the earlier posts in the thread, including #41, you would have understood that my point is that Trump's bitching about unsolicited ballots is much ado about nothing.
You know what, you’re absolutely right. I was getting you mixed up with another poster in this thread. Still trying to keep all the names straight. My fault.
 

VanPastorMan

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See the above-posted response to Hillz Hoosier on this particular subject...
Just one point I would make is that these were nine ballots as of now. How many times have they done this and how many more times were they planning on it? Those votes will add up. You take away votes for Trump and then you allow fraudulent votes from dead people which have not been verified. Also I don't know who the whistle blower was on this story. If they were Republicans who found this out then they will divulge every detail.
 
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ButHerEmails

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Just one point I would make is that these were nine ballots as of now. How many times have they done this and how many more times were they planning on it? Those votes will add up. You take away votes for Trump and then you allow fraudulent votes from dead people which have not been verified. Also I don't know who the whistle blower was on this story. If they were Republicans who found this out then they will divulge every detail.
lol
 
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