Can somebody please explain the "Religious Freedom Bill" that Pence
- Thread starter Neves
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Not how it works. It is about refusal of service normally provided to
others based race, gender, etc... If you already serve pork, but refuse to serve it to someone because they worship hamsters and your religion calls that apostasy, you would now have that right (as far as I know).
others based race, gender, etc... If you already serve pork, but refuse to serve it to someone because they worship hamsters and your religion calls that apostasy, you would now have that right (as far as I know).
No it was about a bunch of statesmen/women...
who I guess thought they needed to clarify the law. It was a waste of time resources. Which is the same thing they did with the Ritz ordeal, wasted time and resources. I have turned customers away many of times, hell I have given some Agent of Record letters typed up so they can go some where else. None because of their race or sexual preference. All because they were crappy people who treated my staff like crap and I refuse to have a customer who does that. If they want to sue me go for it. I rather have the headache than my staff any day of the week and if that means I have to fight the lawsuit I will.
who I guess thought they needed to clarify the law. It was a waste of time resources. Which is the same thing they did with the Ritz ordeal, wasted time and resources. I have turned customers away many of times, hell I have given some Agent of Record letters typed up so they can go some where else. None because of their race or sexual preference. All because they were crappy people who treated my staff like crap and I refuse to have a customer who does that. If they want to sue me go for it. I rather have the headache than my staff any day of the week and if that means I have to fight the lawsuit I will.
I don't know what is dumb about a question?
I legitimately don't know and was wondering if anyone understood how the wording worked. If I am allowed to not serve gay people for religious reasons, why would it stop there?
And if a Muslim at Kinko's wont make copies of my Muhammad cartoon, than I would expect someone else there to do so if not he. The great thing about a secular society is that we don't have to live our lives based on someone else's stupid old book of fairy tales.
This post was edited on 3/24 3:29 PM by tbizzy
I legitimately don't know and was wondering if anyone understood how the wording worked. If I am allowed to not serve gay people for religious reasons, why would it stop there?
And if a Muslim at Kinko's wont make copies of my Muhammad cartoon, than I would expect someone else there to do so if not he. The great thing about a secular society is that we don't have to live our lives based on someone else's stupid old book of fairy tales.
This post was edited on 3/24 3:29 PM by tbizzy
Is it the 1950 and 60's still...
last I checked it was 2015. My god you would think we live in the dark ages still. Maybe we need to go back to public beheadings.
If a business wants to act stupid fine go a head it is on their dime not mine.
Being a business owner it is hard enough. Why would I want to bring anymore work or stress to my life. If someone wants to be a discriminating A-hole be one but in todays world you will pay the ultimate sacrifice which is going BELLY up. Social media is to strong and to sway public opinion back in your favor would be a huge task.
last I checked it was 2015. My god you would think we live in the dark ages still. Maybe we need to go back to public beheadings.
If a business wants to act stupid fine go a head it is on their dime not mine.
Being a business owner it is hard enough. Why would I want to bring anymore work or stress to my life. If someone wants to be a discriminating A-hole be one but in todays world you will pay the ultimate sacrifice which is going BELLY up. Social media is to strong and to sway public opinion back in your favor would be a huge task.
Why do we need to open the door to that possibility
societies are dynamic and any move backwards like this is bad IMO. I honestly don't think this will have an impact like it did the 60's south, but why even consider that an option. It opens the door to discrimination and that is never good. You and I may not experience it, but some people will and that is the problem.
societies are dynamic and any move backwards like this is bad IMO. I honestly don't think this will have an impact like it did the 60's south, but why even consider that an option. It opens the door to discrimination and that is never good. You and I may not experience it, but some people will and that is the problem.
Several parts of Indiana?
I gotta hear this.......where at in Indiana have you seen someone refused service based on race/ethnicity or sexual preference? Seen a lot of wives getting the hell beat out of them around the state? You've probably never been outside of Indy or Btown and have no concept of the "other half" if that's how you view the rest of the state. Being narrow minded is not an excuse for ignorance.
This post was edited on 3/24 3:41 PM by WER4IU
I gotta hear this.......where at in Indiana have you seen someone refused service based on race/ethnicity or sexual preference? Seen a lot of wives getting the hell beat out of them around the state? You've probably never been outside of Indy or Btown and have no concept of the "other half" if that's how you view the rest of the state. Being narrow minded is not an excuse for ignorance.
This post was edited on 3/24 3:41 PM by WER4IU
You want to honestly know if you can beat your wife for being unruly? Yep,
go home and start off by giving her a punch to the kidneys for being married to a flaming retard.
I
don't even have to look at the law to know that Indiana didn't just
pass a bill that proposes to allow a person violate every single civil and criminal federal
and state law on the books by just claiming some silly religious
belief.
go home and start off by giving her a punch to the kidneys for being married to a flaming retard.
I
don't even have to look at the law to know that Indiana didn't just
pass a bill that proposes to allow a person violate every single civil and criminal federal
and state law on the books by just claiming some silly religious
belief.
That is the argument I make when talking to people...
who are so opposed to gay marriage. (Believe me I run into a lot of them around here).
Why are you so scared of homosexuals? Are you afraid they might hit on you and you might like it or what? How does them being gay effect you being straight?
Then I usually get well Marriage is a sacred unity between a man and a women... BLAHH BLAHH BLAHHH
Which I respond well the average divorce rate in the US is like 60% how sacred is marriage these days? We sure as hell don't act like it sacred when over half the people getting married get divorced a few year later. What are you worried it might go to 62% if we allow gay people to marry? Maybe it will drop to below 50% and will be come "sacred"again. Then you get a blank stare and they turn and walk away....
who are so opposed to gay marriage. (Believe me I run into a lot of them around here).
Why are you so scared of homosexuals? Are you afraid they might hit on you and you might like it or what? How does them being gay effect you being straight?
Then I usually get well Marriage is a sacred unity between a man and a women... BLAHH BLAHH BLAHHH
Which I respond well the average divorce rate in the US is like 60% how sacred is marriage these days? We sure as hell don't act like it sacred when over half the people getting married get divorced a few year later. What are you worried it might go to 62% if we allow gay people to marry? Maybe it will drop to below 50% and will be come "sacred"again. Then you get a blank stare and they turn and walk away....
Short answer: if they can make money by doing it. The fact that several
large corps in the state have publicly pushed back against the law makes me think that Indiana Republicans, who claim to be pro business, are foolish for doing what they are doing. I'm not backing the bill. I'm just saying it has more symbolic political effect than it ever will actual consequences. Maybe the bill costs Indiana some new business. Hopefully, those behind the bill will be held accountable.
OTOH, last time I was reading about this, it was about Cummins and their corporate diversity programs. It's funny how their "diversity rules" are not implemented overseas in places like China and India, etc... So when it comes to these issues, every corporation's support is symbolic vs. their bottom line.
large corps in the state have publicly pushed back against the law makes me think that Indiana Republicans, who claim to be pro business, are foolish for doing what they are doing. I'm not backing the bill. I'm just saying it has more symbolic political effect than it ever will actual consequences. Maybe the bill costs Indiana some new business. Hopefully, those behind the bill will be held accountable.
OTOH, last time I was reading about this, it was about Cummins and their corporate diversity programs. It's funny how their "diversity rules" are not implemented overseas in places like China and India, etc... So when it comes to these issues, every corporation's support is symbolic vs. their bottom line.
I am not flaming, just retarded. yeesh
the line about beating an unruly wife is a bit of hyperbole but it used to be an accepted thing within society. A man could spank his wife like he would a child.
BUT, the other stuff is not unreasonable. Is this bill not a way to give a business the right to turn away gay patrons based on religion? If it is not, than my apologies. If it is, I don't see how it does not open the opportunity for other ridiculous exceptions based on religion.
I mean when you said
the line about beating an unruly wife is a bit of hyperbole but it used to be an accepted thing within society. A man could spank his wife like he would a child.
BUT, the other stuff is not unreasonable. Is this bill not a way to give a business the right to turn away gay patrons based on religion? If it is not, than my apologies. If it is, I don't see how it does not open the opportunity for other ridiculous exceptions based on religion.
I mean when you said
Than I have to say that you are not paying close attention because being allowed to not serve gay patrons based on a silly religious belief is exactly what it is. I don't actually expect people to be allowed to beat their wives or lynch gays, but there have been times (and there currently are places) where that is allowed based on religious beliefs.
^^^Ungar struck a nerve......
Ma-asshat-a hates the uncomfortable feeling of getting hit on by gheys and liking it.
Nice argument.
Any more guarantees for us? lol
Is your fellow teabagger Ted Cruz going to run away with this thing! His announcement has already provided more laughs then I've seen in a while.
Check out his site!
You do know Ungar is a righty don't you. Just not a backwardsass fuked up one.
Link
Ma-asshat-a hates the uncomfortable feeling of getting hit on by gheys and liking it.
Nice argument.
Any more guarantees for us? lol
Is your fellow teabagger Ted Cruz going to run away with this thing! His announcement has already provided more laughs then I've seen in a while.
Check out his site!
You do know Ungar is a righty don't you. Just not a backwardsass fuked up one.
Link
You need a talent base...
for companies to come here. What if all the talent left the state or you couldn't attract talent to the state?
Why would a company uproot from California to come here if there wasn't talent?
for companies to come here. What if all the talent left the state or you couldn't attract talent to the state?
Why would a company uproot from California to come here if there wasn't talent?
The RFRA has been around for years.
It was some Democrat's brainchild and it was originally done to protect Native Americans, I believe (1993?).
The RFRA was used (expanded) in the Hobby Lobby case a few years back (the ACA's contraception requirements were successfully challenged under the RFRA- IOW Hobby Lobby couldn't be forced to pay for contraception that is against their religion b/c there were other means (less restrictive) to provide women with the same contraception - i.e. government, insurance companies, etc.) to find a part of the ACA unconstitutional.
There are many cases on it dating back 20 years. Seems every case is different, fact or issue-wise.
The big case now is the gay stuff. With LGBT rights expanding and gay marriage an inevitability, the far right is using the RFRA to push back. In this case, the supporters want business to be lawsuit-proof if they refuse to do business for events that run contrary to their beliefs. Gay weddings come to mind.
This post was edited on 3/24 4:15 PM by UTFO
It was some Democrat's brainchild and it was originally done to protect Native Americans, I believe (1993?).
The RFRA was used (expanded) in the Hobby Lobby case a few years back (the ACA's contraception requirements were successfully challenged under the RFRA- IOW Hobby Lobby couldn't be forced to pay for contraception that is against their religion b/c there were other means (less restrictive) to provide women with the same contraception - i.e. government, insurance companies, etc.) to find a part of the ACA unconstitutional.
There are many cases on it dating back 20 years. Seems every case is different, fact or issue-wise.
The big case now is the gay stuff. With LGBT rights expanding and gay marriage an inevitability, the far right is using the RFRA to push back. In this case, the supporters want business to be lawsuit-proof if they refuse to do business for events that run contrary to their beliefs. Gay weddings come to mind.
This post was edited on 3/24 4:15 PM by UTFO
I'm actually from Marshall County
So good of you to assume however. I grew up in Marshall County, spent a good deal of time in the surrounding counties as well including Starke, St. Joseph, Kosciusko, Fulton, and Elkhart. I am the "other half", and I saw many examples of people happily displaying their bigotry and racism without a second thought.
Now that it's been "legalized", you really don't think that there will be businesses who don't take advantage of this? That's a naive viewpoint at best. Just like it's naive to think that a state that less than a 100 years ago was run by elected officials who were members of the KKK, and has had a history of several waves of white supremacy resurgence, wouldn't have businesses that would refuse service based on race/ethnicity or sexual preference.
I am far from narrow minded.
So good of you to assume however. I grew up in Marshall County, spent a good deal of time in the surrounding counties as well including Starke, St. Joseph, Kosciusko, Fulton, and Elkhart. I am the "other half", and I saw many examples of people happily displaying their bigotry and racism without a second thought.
Now that it's been "legalized", you really don't think that there will be businesses who don't take advantage of this? That's a naive viewpoint at best. Just like it's naive to think that a state that less than a 100 years ago was run by elected officials who were members of the KKK, and has had a history of several waves of white supremacy resurgence, wouldn't have businesses that would refuse service based on race/ethnicity or sexual preference.
I am far from narrow minded.
The smoking ban is vastly different...
If you're gay, you don't impact me as someone who isn't gay. If you're smoking in an enclosed area, you affect me. You may not care about your health or how you smell when you have never touched a cigarette long enough than to flick it out of the way, but I do.
If you're gay, you don't impact me as someone who isn't gay. If you're smoking in an enclosed area, you affect me. You may not care about your health or how you smell when you have never touched a cigarette long enough than to flick it out of the way, but I do.
Just a hunch but I would bet we see less than..
a dozen business that discriminate against gay's. We will know every single one, because it will be plastered on facebook, twitter, the news, etc.
The close minded person who does put a sign up or turn away service because the person is gay will be out of business with in a year. It would be the death of their business and any sensible business person knows this.
Whether you live in Kosciusko county (home of Grace College) or Marshall County you won't see it. Believe me our county has a lot of right wing nut jobs and I am pretty confident we may see "A" business that is stupid enough to do it and that might be stretching it.
a dozen business that discriminate against gay's. We will know every single one, because it will be plastered on facebook, twitter, the news, etc.
The close minded person who does put a sign up or turn away service because the person is gay will be out of business with in a year. It would be the death of their business and any sensible business person knows this.
Whether you live in Kosciusko county (home of Grace College) or Marshall County you won't see it. Believe me our county has a lot of right wing nut jobs and I am pretty confident we may see "A" business that is stupid enough to do it and that might be stretching it.
Hahahahaha...thats the stupidest argument for gay marriage
Look I don't care if they get married good luck to them, but gays aren't penguins and mate for life. The whole I know a gay couple that's been together for fifty years is crap, they should get married and they'll get divorced at the same rate eventually as straight couples.
Look I don't care if they get married good luck to them, but gays aren't penguins and mate for life. The whole I know a gay couple that's been together for fifty years is crap, they should get married and they'll get divorced at the same rate eventually as straight couples.
Why would the talent leave the state?
If there were that many people that cared this strongly about the issue, the bill wouldn't have passed.
There aren't a bunch of start-up companies coming here, because we have great talent--gay or otherwise. To the extent companies move from another state to Indiana they probably do so for lower taxes, other government incentives, and cheap(er) blue collar labor.
If there were that many people that cared this strongly about the issue, the bill wouldn't have passed.
There aren't a bunch of start-up companies coming here, because we have great talent--gay or otherwise. To the extent companies move from another state to Indiana they probably do so for lower taxes, other government incentives, and cheap(er) blue collar labor.
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