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“Biden adds to his Bidenomics flop”

C'mon, snarl, that's bullshit. The middle class has shrunk because our manfacturing base has been hollowed out. It started with cars, then appliances, then electronics, and now it's almost all consumer goods. None of those things are made here anymore.

Bloomington used to have RCA, GE, Westinghouse, and Otis. All are gone, along with the middle class jobs they provided. Cook, Baxter, and Catalent pay half of what those manufacturing jobs paid. If you're in health care or at IU in a white collar position you can do okay in this town, but otherwise it's a heavy lift.

As long as we demand cheap goods and don't give two shits where they're made, the middle class as we once knew it is gone.
And change to service economy. Feels like it’s going to change again in the next twenty years
 
i do believe pay reductions for doctors will impact hte quality of healthcare. as i've written before and everyone knows it takes a lot to become a doctor and financial remuneration is material in the decision to go through it

Back in the good ol' days, doctors were single proprietors running their own little businesses, with all the staffing and administration and overhead involved, no different from the shoe store down the street. That's no longer the case. Most are employees of either large groups that contract with big health care providers like IU Health (usually specialists who staff various hospital departments) or are employees of the providers themselves. They don't have to carry their own med-mal, worry about making a payroll, or deal with finding and retaining staff. They show up, do their jobs, and go home. If they're not knocking down the huge money, it's still a damn good gig. The only thing they really need to deal with is the cost of their educations. If that can be brought under control, then they aren't going to think they have to make a shit ton of money to get out from under and make a good living.
 
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Back in the good ol' days, doctors were single proprietors running their own little businesses, with all the staffing and administration and overhead involved, no different from the shoe store down the street. That's no longer the case. Most are employees of either large groups that contract with big health care providers like IU Health (usually specialists who staff various hospital departments) or are employees of the providers themselves. They don't have to carry their own med-mal, worry about making a payroll, or deal with finding and retaining staff. They show up, do their jobs, and go home. If they're not knocking down the huge money, it's still a damn good gig. The only thing they really need to deal with is the cost of their educations. If that can be brought under control, then they aren't going to think they have to make a shit ton of money to get out from under and make a good living.
And time before they get paid as the residency isn’t shit - but agreed
 
C'mon, snarl, that's bullshit. The middle class has shrunk because our manfacturing base has been hollowed out. It started with cars, then appliances, then electronics, and now it's almost all consumer goods. None of those things are made here anymore.

Bloomington used to have RCA, GE, Westinghouse, and Otis. All are gone, along with the middle class jobs they provided. Cook, Baxter, and Catalent pay half of what those manufacturing jobs paid. If you're in health care or at IU in a white collar position you can do okay in this town, but otherwise it's a heavy lift.

As long as we demand cheap goods and don't give two shits where they're made, the middle class as we once knew it is gone.
Yeah, we’re going to disagree. And yes, Bitcoin, will fix this.
 
If they change to single payer system they won’t be able to pass the costs onto the private market. Long term it would just shift costs and put more financial burden on the middle class through inflation and taxes.
Pay with Bitcoin and it will solve it!

To The Moon Gme GIF by Partiful
 
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price-changes-in-usa-in-past-20-years-2294.jpg
Take a look at the goods and services that have gone up in price, and those that have gone down. Anything purchased, subsidized or otherwise financed by the government will invariably go up in price.

If you call for universal childcare, healthcare, education you ignore reality and I pray to god you don’t vote.
 
Take a look at the goods and services that have gone up in price, and those that have gone down. Anything purchased, subsidized or otherwise financed by the government will invariably go up in price.

If you call for universal childcare, healthcare, education you ignore reality and I pray to god you don’t vote.

Average hourly earnings have increased more than CPI for all items. Housing, F&B, cars, furniture, and clothing are all cheaper relative to earnings.

Of course, this is only through 2018 and doesn't reflect the upheavals resulting from the pandemic.

"Figures don't lie, but liars figure."
-- my dad

You can make numbers (and graphs) say anything you want them to.
 
price-changes-in-usa-in-past-20-years-2294.jpg
Take a look at the goods and services that have gone up in price, and those that have gone down. Anything purchased, subsidized or otherwise financed by the government will invariably go up in price.

If you call for universal childcare, healthcare, education you ignore reality and I pray to god you don’t vote.
Not to disagree with your entire premise, but the attorneys and staff working at the prosecutor’s office made significantly less than their private sector counterparts.

So not everything done by the gov goes up
 
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Most of Europe has single payer and haven’t had more success than the U.S. in entrepreneurship or innovation. Go through the list of newer top companies in the past several decades that are worth 100 million plus. I think there are only one or two from Europe. Not to mention they spend a lot less on military.

The notion that socializing businesses is going to lead to cheaper costs is nonsense. If you want single payer for moral reasons, that’s fine. However, it’s not going to lead to growth or people in the middle class being better off.

My GP told me not to complain about the high cost of a colonoscopy as it was covered by Medicare with no out of pocket cost to me.

Hell, is it any wonder our medical costs are the highest in the world when patients and practioners don't question the cost and absolute need for procedures ?

My GP is on salary with an HMO. Often wonder if she has quotas to meet which might include referrals and recommended procedures ?
 
C'mon, snarl, that's bullshit. The middle class has shrunk because our manfacturing base has been hollowed out. It started with cars, then appliances, then electronics, and now it's almost all consumer goods. None of those things are made here anymore.

Bloomington used to have RCA, GE, Westinghouse, and Otis. All are gone, along with the middle class jobs they provided. Cook, Baxter, and Catalent pay half of what those manufacturing jobs paid. If you're in health care or at IU in a white collar position you can do okay in this town, but otherwise it's a heavy lift.

As long as we demand cheap goods and don't give two shits where they're made, the middle class as we once knew it is gone.
That’s why I moved. People back home think six figures as being rich. 100k job is pretty easy to get down here and doesn’t go far. You also have to define who middle class is. The definition is all over the place. Middle class to me starts much higher than most think.
 
That’s why I moved. People back home think six figures as being rich. 100k job is pretty easy to get down here and doesn’t go far. You also have to define who middle class is. The definition is all over the place. Middle class to me starts much higher than most think.
100k doesn’t do shit anymore. Someone on the hook for day care, health insurance, and forget it. This last three years has changed more in the last fifty years than anything I can remember. Life. Is. Expensive. Now
 
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100k doesn’t do shit anymore. Someone on the hook for day care, health insurance, and forget it. This last three years has changed more in the last fifty years than anything I can remember. Life. Is. Expensive. Now
I should’ve said for households with 2 working parents. Even 100k with one working and one staying home is rougher than many think. I’ve never paid for daycare. I couldn’t imagine doing that.
 
I should’ve said for households with 2 working parents. Even 100k with one working and one staying home is rougher than many think. I’ve never paid for daycare. I couldn’t imagine doing that.
it's awful. absolutely awful. but again the last three years have been absurd. new construction townhomes in my community go for two million bucks. not a house. a townhouse. off a main road with an imo's pizza next door. in a horrible midwest city. in a burb.
 
it's awful. absolutely awful. but again the last three years have been absurd. new construction townhomes in my community go for two million bucks. not a house. a townhouse. off a main road with an imo's pizza next door. in a horrible midwest city. in a burb.
IMO’s is a crime in itself.
 
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Worst pizza has provel on it. My kids gagged and they could eat pizza any day for any meal.
as a native it's an acquired taste that i actually grew to like a lot. the worst of it today is that they've been around 50 years and now are all run down total shitholes. and there's much better pizza in town. not great pizza. but good
 
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C'mon, snarl, that's bullshit. The middle class has shrunk because our manfacturing base has been hollowed out. It started with cars, then appliances, then electronics, and now it's almost all consumer goods. None of those things are made here anymore.

Bloomington used to have RCA, GE, Westinghouse, and Otis. All are gone, along with the middle class jobs they provided. Cook, Baxter, and Catalent pay half of what those manufacturing jobs paid. If you're in health care or at IU in a white collar position you can do okay in this town, but otherwise it's a heavy lift.

As long as we demand cheap goods and don't give two shits where they're made, the middle class as we once knew it is gone.
Here’s a brief explanation for my opinion, Mark.
 
Here’s a brief explanation for my opinion, Mark.

In 1954 the car new cost about $1, 700 with the new home priced at $14,000.

If a Dad was an average earner he was bringing home $4,200 annualy.

With a $2,200 down payment on the home his mortgage payment would have been $59 a month in 1954.

A big change since 1954 is the average guy and the car dealership owner might have been pals at the same social club along with their postal delivery man.
 
In 1954 the car new cost about $1, 700 with the new home priced at $14,000.

If a Dad was an average earner he was bringing home $4,200 annualy.

With a $2,200 down payment on the home his mortgage payment would have been $59 a month in 1954.

A big change since 1954 is the average guy and the car dealership owner might have been pals at the same social club along with their postal delivery man.
this is MAGA hoot. not the left nonsense claiming racism and all the other falsely imputed bs. it's what you wrote. now the fallacy is that it's doable or something trump can bring back. my dad got back from vietnam and drove a dump truck. he bought a house on that salary and we had two late model cars, i went to private (catholic) school, and my mom didn't work. she stayed home and kept the house etc. that same house is now occupied by a married couple in their mid 40s who are both attorneys at a midsized (100 attorney) firm. zero chance a dump truck driver with a wife who didn't work could afford it
 
this is MAGA hoot. not the left nonsense claiming racism and all the other falsely imputed bs. it's what you wrote. now the fallacy is that it's doable or something trump can bring back. my dad got back from vietnam and drove a dump truck. he bought a house on that salary and we had two late model cars, i went to private (catholic) school, and my mom didn't work. she stayed home and kept the house etc. that same house is now occupied by a married couple in their mid 40s who are both attorneys at a midsized (100 attorney) firm. zero chance a dump truck driver with a wife who didn't work could afford it
A seasoned dump truck driver is making over 30hr. A lot of these arguments can be proven or disputed depending on area and cost of living. I mean I’m a mechanic. Own a 4000 sq ft house in a good neighborhood. Drive two late model cars and could afford private school if I wanted. Wife stays at home too. We know areas change, demographics etc….i think both can be true. Also, people tend to hold on too long. They are very hesitant to move, change etc….i tell my kids to never get to sentimental about property.
 
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A seasoned dump truck driver is making over 30hr. A lot of these arguments can be proven or disputed depending on area and cost of living. I mean I’m a mechanic. Own a 4000 sq ft house in a good neighborhood. Drive two late model cars and could afford private school if I wanted. Wife stays at home too. We know areas change, demographics etc….i think both can be true. Also, people tend to hold on too long. They are very hesitant to move, change etc….i tell my kids to never get to sentimental about property.
For sure. This suburb you definitely could not do that on $30 an hour
 
A seasoned dump truck driver is making over 30hr. A lot of these arguments can be proven or disputed depending on area and cost of living. I mean I’m a mechanic. Own a 4000 sq ft house in a good neighborhood. Drive two late model cars and could afford private school if I wanted. Wife stays at home too. We know areas change, demographics etc….i think both can be true. Also, people tend to hold on too long. They are very hesitant to move, change etc….i tell my kids to never get to sentimental about property.
Thank you for confirming that all mechanics are screwing me on every visit.
 
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Thank you for confirming that all mechanics are screwing me on every visit.
Ughhhh…I’m not a dealership mechanic. I’m a mechanic at a manufacturing plant. You are probably just as much at fault for getting screwed. People are to trusting and not versed enough to know wether they are the screwer or the screweee…😉
 
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The middle class has shrunk because our manfacturing base has been hollowed out.
And they bullshitted everyone by calling it "lean". Claiming efficiency would result in cost savings that would be passed on to the customer and employee. Cost savings equaled not only JIT inventory, but cheaper parts, less inspection, bullying smaller suppliers, less regulation, less pay, longer hours, more responsibility, shorter staffs, seasonal layoffs, and cutting benefits.. the gutting wasn't done in a night it was a slow burn with a mountain of bullshit behind it while they shipped more and more of the process to other countries.
 
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I agree with this.

You know what would really help fire up this kind of entrepreneurship and spark our economy?

Single payor health insurance. Untie health insurance from employment. Right the mistake made generations ago.

But that wouldn't be good for me. My family's health insurance would be worse and I'd be paying more in taxes.
 
But that wouldn't be good for me. My family's health insurance would be worse and I'd be paying more in taxes.
Well….me too probably. I think costs drop over time though. Probably enough time for us to never enjoy those gains but oh well.
 
Well….me too probably. I think costs drop over time though. Probably enough time for us to never enjoy those gains but oh well.
I think one of the biggest hurdles to a single payer system would be reprogramming our health care culture. By that I mean is that there is a large portion of the population who doesn’t do preventative care (relatively cheap) and only go to the ER (the most expensive care). Increased access is only as good as its usage.

On the whole, it’s the health care 3 legged stool. Cost, access, & quality. And you can’t have all three be at a best level at the same time.
 
1. Yes, there are moral reasons.
2. Efficiency reasons. No really, I believe this. Just b/c our federal government isn't currently held accountable doesn't mean it can't be.
3. If healthcare is availbale to every American, preventative care will increase, and over time cost will drop.
4. There are huge differences between the US and Europe that have nothing to do with healthcare. I think our base level of innovation and entrepreneurship would increase from it's already higher level. We don't have to have the stupid retirement plans/pension that got a lot of Europe in trouble in the mid aughts.
I wish that I could believe all those things. I think preventative care should increase but I don't think it would because there's not enough doctors to take care of people. For example, my family doctor recommended that I go to a dermatologist once a year for a checkup. I called yesterday about making an appointment and it was gonna be Feb 2025 before I could get it.

The government will screw it up. They have so many damn rules and it's almost impossible to find what the rule is. For example, some things you can do once per calendar year so it could be done on Dec 31th of one year and Jan 1st of the next year and they would cover it. Other things the rule is that you can't do it again in less than a year so if you had the test done on Dec 1st of 2023 then it won't be covered again until Dec 2nd of 2024.

They keep saying they are gonna negotiate drug prices for Medicare but they are NOT negotiating prices. They are dictating prices from everything that I've read. Even doctors don't have to accept Medicare so they have an out but from what I've read if the drug companies don't accept the prices that Medicare offers then they will be fined. Does that sound like a negotiation you'd want to be in with a client? I'm concerned that they will keep new medications from being developed because of that approach.

Our health care is very inefficient. There are so many unnecessary appointments made and charged for that all could be take care of by a 1 minute phone call. Medicare has what they call a wellness check they want you to do every year. They ask a bunch of stupid questions and it's not an annual physical at all. That's a completely different appointment if you want that. Every time I go in I always think "There is someone who really needs to get in to see the doctor today but can't" because his appointments are all booked up.
 
I wish that I could believe all those things. I think preventative care should increase but I don't think it would because there's not enough doctors to take care of people. For example, my family doctor recommended that I go to a dermatologist once a year for a checkup. I called yesterday about making an appointment and it was gonna be Feb 2025 before I could get it.

The government will screw it up. They have so many damn rules and it's almost impossible to find what the rule is. For example, some things you can do once per calendar year so it could be done on Dec 31th of one year and Jan 1st of the next year and they would cover it. Other things the rule is that you can't do it again in less than a year so if you had the test done on Dec 1st of 2023 then it won't be covered again until Dec 2nd of 2024.

They keep saying they are gonna negotiate drug prices for Medicare but they are NOT negotiating prices. They are dictating prices from everything that I've read. Even doctors don't have to accept Medicare so they have an out but from what I've read if the drug companies don't accept the prices that Medicare offers then they will be fined. Does that sound like a negotiation you'd want to be in with a client? I'm concerned that they will keep new medications from being developed because of that approach.

Our health care is very inefficient. There are so many unnecessary appointments made and charged for that all could be take care of by a 1 minute phone call. Medicare has what they call a wellness check they want you to do every year. They ask a bunch of stupid questions and it's not an annual physical at all. That's a completely different appointment if you want that. Every time I go in I always think "There is someone who really needs to get in to see the doctor today but can't" because his appointments are all booked up.
No kidding. Get a doc visit is impossible
 
I wish that I could believe all those things. I think preventative care should increase but I don't think it would because there's not enough doctors to take care of people. For example, my family doctor recommended that I go to a dermatologist once a year for a checkup. I called yesterday about making an appointment and it was gonna be Feb 2025 before I could get it.

The government will screw it up. They have so many damn rules and it's almost impossible to find what the rule is. For example, some things you can do once per calendar year so it could be done on Dec 31th of one year and Jan 1st of the next year and they would cover it. Other things the rule is that you can't do it again in less than a year so if you had the test done on Dec 1st of 2023 then it won't be covered again until Dec 2nd of 2024.

They keep saying they are gonna negotiate drug prices for Medicare but they are NOT negotiating prices. They are dictating prices from everything that I've read. Even doctors don't have to accept Medicare so they have an out but from what I've read if the drug companies don't accept the prices that Medicare offers then they will be fined. Does that sound like a negotiation you'd want to be in with a client? I'm concerned that they will keep new medications from being developed because of that approach.

Our health care is very inefficient. There are so many unnecessary appointments made and charged for that all could be take care of by a 1 minute phone call. Medicare has what they call a wellness check they want you to do every year. They ask a bunch of stupid questions and it's not an annual physical at all. That's a completely different appointment if you want that. Every time I go in I always think "There is someone who really needs to get in to see the doctor today but can't" because his appointments are all booked up.
A. Nurse practitioners, more more more
B. I can understand your hesitancy vis a vis the feds running anything. But we've got 75+ years of evidence showing our current model for funding healthcare has really only resulted in much much higher prices than the rest of the world. Shirley, there's a better way, no?
C. And honestly, if I had the ability to dictate to a client my most favorable terms, hell yeah i'd like to be able to do that. But I do have concerns about innovation in the healthcare world without the gobs of money they get today. But do they really need gobs of money for research or is that shit just going to administration and fancy new hotel looking hopsitals?
 
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