We're # 27!! Woo hoo!!!
- Thread starter TheLaffy
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We will have an extremely talented team this year. And Cresn recruited all of them. You can'took stop 2015 in isolation.
Crean has also shown he's fairly good at getting under the skin of a couple opposing coaches, too. I can think of two instances of this without even trying.
I've decided that what I want to see next year more than anything else is better defense, however defined. I'm also going to watch the players to see if they show signs of being worn out by the end of the regular season. I think there have been signs of this in the past two years. Maybe this could be prevented by better practice management and the like. We'll see. Go IU.
A basketball school? We've been top 40-ish or worse since 1993 (except for one Davis and one Crean year)...are you not used to it yet? It's pushing 24 years of mediocrity.
I am buying tickets and sending checks to the Varsity Club just like I was when Knight was sucking it and running off Jason Collier and Luke Recker and Neil Reed and Sherron Wilkerson...et. al.
Losing to Minnesota by 50 (literally) in the regular season and losing in the first and second rounds of the tournament to Mizzou, Colorado, BC, Pepperdine and others was awesome!!! Maybe Archie Miller can bring us back to those glory days!!!
By the way, what actions are you taking that demonstrate you are not "sitting idly by?" Have you ceased buying tickets or donating money? I interpret the opposite of "sitting idly by" as actually doing something (or refraining from doing something). How are you taking action (or refraining from taking action) other than bitching about things on an internet message board?
Please acknowledge accordingly:
1. I, Creaned Heat, have stopped purchasing season tickets, which I once purchased regularly, to Indiana basketball games in protest of the existing coaching administration. Yes/No (underline accordingly)
2. I, Creaned Heat, have discontinued my annual donations to the Indiana University Varsity Club in protest of the existing coaching adminstration. Yes/No (underline accordingly)
3. I, Creaned Heat, have discontinued my membership in the Indiana University Alumni Association in protest of the existing coaching administration. Yes/No (underline accordingly)
By the way, if you actually have ceased any of those activities, which I doubt you ever actually engaged in, I applaud you as my priority points might improve and consequently my seats might as well.
Please feel free to cite any other endeavor you have undertaken (or declined to undertake) to illustrate your not "sitting idly by."
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I am not sure how to take that. Can you define "piece of work" and describe accordingly how my above post qualifies me as such? Thanks in advance!
You are trying to rationalize Crean's record by using Knights last 7 years(which are still better than Crean), Davis failure. Lets face it...IU has made bad hire, after bad hire since Knight. IU needs change and they need to get it right. That's what has separated the UK, UNC, Kansas from IU. They will make a change until they get it right.
Preach it brother. I will take Pitino or Cal or Self or Matta any day. Sadly, none of those are happening.
I am not sure I would do the Crean buyout for Archie Miller though. Pitino had won a national championship and Cal had been to two final fours and Crean had been to one when they all got hired.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, they shoulda hired Pitino or Matta the day after Knight publicly assaulted and battered Kent Harvey.
Oh well. Football is on the horizon. Get on the pigskin bandwagon while there is still room bsmitty08. Glendale or bust!!!
I appreciate your acquiescence.
Had such hire occurred, I can envision perhaps 3 additional banners swaying in the gentle indoor breeze of the Assembly Hall.
Alas, it was not meant to be and we must continue to bask in the fading glow of 1987...a mere 28 years yore.
Who knows but it is naive to think a great coach wouldn't come here...and the fear of that is no reason to keep Crean.
Our expectations are so damn low, sadly.
I can't really think of any "great" coaches that would come to Bloomington. I guess we need to define "great" before we can begin any deliberation of same.
I would probably limit "great" to the likes of Pitino, K, Cal, Self, and Izzo. What other "great" ones are out there?
Ignoring my seeming naivete with regard to greatness, can you kindly rattle off a few available
"great" coaches that we could get in the next couple of years?
Thanks!
Izzo was an asst before he was great, Coach K was at Army, Ryan was at a D3 school, Self was at Tulsa...fact is a lot of great coaches start at small schools. Kellgo from Umass will be a great coach. Marshall already is a great coach, Archie Miller is an up and comer...etc..
Self and Ryan also moved up the ladder and did not go directly from Tulsa to Kansas or D3 to UW.
So coaching in the big ten is not big time. Self started at Oral Roberts to Tulsa to Illinois and then Kansas so that was a steady move up the ladder so you could see his body of work. That is what I like about Marshall because he won big in low D1 at Winthrop then move to a mid major in WSU and is winning big time so you can see that steady improvement..
Self was a stud at Illinois he went from Tulsa to Illinois and became a stud coach. I know he started low major. My point in case you are missing it is that a lot of the great coaches were at small schools before current gig.
Sweet. Archie Miller and "Kellgo," albeit I have never heard of the latter.
Upon further review, UMASS was 17-15 last year, lost 6 of their last 7 to Rhode Island, VCU, St. Joe, Richmond, GW, and Lasalle respectively and didn't make any post-season tournament.
Also, UMASS is 126-101 under "Kellgo" in his seven year tenure and has made the tournament one time in which they lost in the first round to Tennessee by 19 points. I say we back up the truck for this guy ASAP! Let's go get him!
I totally agree with that but some of the guys you mentioned in Kellogg and Miller still needs to prove more to me before I would look at them for a job like IU.
Did you miss the point where I said "Will be"?
Bill Self at Oral Roberts:
1993–94 Oral Roberts 6–21
1994–95 Oral Roberts 10–17
1995–96 Oral Roberts 18–9
1996–97 Oral Roberts 21–7 NIT First Round
Oral Roberts: 55–54 (.505)
Pitino
1978–79 Boston University 17–9
Boston University Terriers (America East Conference) (1979–1983)
1979–80 Boston University 21–9 19–7 T–1st NIT Second Round
1980–81 Boston University 13–14 13–13 T–4th
1981–82 Boston University 19–9 6–2 4th
1982–83 Boston University 21–10 8–2 T–1st NCAA Preliminary
Boston University: 91–51 (.641) 46–24 (.657)
I did not miss the point where you said "Will be?"
Nonetheless, the fact that Bill Self went 6-21 at Oral Roberts in 1993-1994 provides me little encouragement, and no corollary evidence, that Kellgo will lead the Hoosiers back to greatness one day.
Never said he would...I just think he is a good coach who has a great future in coaching. Also I apologize for the typo, sorry it bothers you so bad.
Also they did not go directly from those small schools to the big time as well and Kansas or UK would have never hired those two with those records at those schools. Pitino went to Providence then to the NBA then to UK after proving himself worthy of the job.
OMG scott. LET ME YELL IT OUT....I AM SIMPLY SHOWING THAT JUST BECAUSE KELLOG HAS AN AVERAGE RECORD AT A SMALLER SCHOOL DOESNT PREDICT FUTURE SUCCESS, SO I SHOW TWO GREAT COACHES FIRST COACHING GIGS. NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT COMING STRAIGHT TO IU.
OK just saying I would like to see Miller especially stay at Dayton longer and see him start dominating that conference and actually winning some conference championships. Of those two I think Miller will definitely be the better coach and would look at him in a couple of years if he starts to do better during conference play. You did mentioned both of those players while replying to the question who would you hire right now if we fired Crean.
Wouldn't disagree with Archie being better but I don't think he needs to win conference championships..He can coach and I think at a name brand like IU he will recruit very well.
I appreciate your opinion, albeit it seems somewhat subjective. I am willing to hear your argument...why do you think he "is a good coach who has a great future in coaching?"
I don't doubt your impression of him for whatever reason or reasons you might maintain. I have just never even heard of the guy and, upon review of his record, it looks somewhat pedestrian.
Can you elaborate on your reasons for supporting him as a viable candidate for the Indiana job?
Thanks.
ha In RMK's last 7 seasons he made one sweet 16. One. That was "good enough" to have people want to keep him on. Does that mean RMK lowered the expectations of IU fans? Enough with this nonsense.
He may be a bust at IU I don't know but I like how his teams play and I think he would do well on the recruiting trail with a name brand program on his back. Sampson, Davis, Crean have all recruited well. IU needs a guy that can coach. I think Archie and Kellog can coach..
No because BK had already proved on any given year he could go to a final four or win a title since he had already done so a number of times.
I just want a guy if he is coming from a mid major to have a proven winning pedigree over a longer period of time. I just don't want to get the next media darling because of a great 3 week stretch through the tournament. I look at the guy from Fla. Gulf Coast who nobody had heard of before the conference tournament and 3 weeks later he was getting a job at a Pac 12 school at USC.
Ok, so he had a proven background which means a decided recruiting advantage and STILL went 6 straight years without a single sweet 16??? He is even worse than I originally thought. Crean went to two sweet 16's after taking on a program that truly got the death penalty. Time to give Crean an extension.
I like Archie's pedigree though...coached under Matta, brother is a successful head coach and Archi went 13-5 in the A-10 last year with 6 scholarship players.
Your point makes zero sense but keep trying.
1993–94 Indiana 21–9 12–6 3rd NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1994–95 Indiana 19–12 11–7 T–3rd NCAA First Round
1995–96 Indiana 19–12 12–6 T–2nd NCAA First Round
1996–97 Indiana 22–11 9–9 T–6th NCAA First Round
1997–98 Indiana 20–12 9–7 T–5th NCAA Second Round
1998–99 Indiana 23–11 9–7 T–3rd NCAA Second Round
1999–00 Indiana 20–9 10–6 5th NCAA First Round
So.....7 tourneys, 1 sweet 16 in his final 7 years. 144-77 (65%)
Crean 7 years
2008–09 Indiana 6–25 1–17 11th
2009–10 Indiana 10–21 4–14 T–9th
2010–11 Indiana 12–20 3–15 11th
2011–12 Indiana 27–9 11–7 5th NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2012–13 Indiana 29–7 14–4 1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2013–14 Indiana 17–15 7–11 T–8th
2014–15 Indiana 20–14 9–9 T–7th NCAA Round of 64
Indiana: 121–111 (.522) 49–77 (.389)
He comes from a coaching family because I think his dad was a HS coaching legend in Pennsylvania.
How do his teams play? When is UMASS even on television that you may have seen them play?
Aside from the aforementioned 6 out of 7 end of season losing run, they also lost to Harvard, Florida Gulf Coast and St. Bonaventure last year. Can you cite any of the games you watched, and where you watched them, when you liked "how his teams play?"
I will say this, he was apparently able to get the Minutemen up on 1/29/2015 to rise up and beat the mighty Dayton Flyers by a score of 66-64 under the stewardship of next great coach Archie Miller.
Man, how do you pick between those two cats?
There is a level of what I would call good "risk adjusted" investments. Think a Ben Jacobsen, maybe a Derek Kellogg. When you get to this level things get a bit dicey. I think there is TREMENDOUS upside to hiring a promising young coach - absent NBA aspirations you arent going to lose him to another job and if their potential turns into greatness you can establish a dominant period of IU hard court excellence, and I think most younger guys (while a bit of a stereo type) would have no issues recruiting. If you can find a younger guy whose "worst case" is to continue CTC's track record but has materially more upside I think you take that asymmetric profile all day long. In simple trading terms, right now we are short a put (limited upside and way more risk to the downside, though there is a limit to how far we can drop). I wouldn't mind finding a way to go long a call and take limited downside with unlimited upside...
I don't think there is any doubt we could upgrade the head coaching position without taking undue risk, but do we have the right leadership in place to appropriately weigh the options? I don't know...
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Can you quantify "materially more upside" and assign names and availability?
I also guess I find it disheartening that my fellow alumni, a.k.a. our "leadership," can't appropriately weigh the options, if it is in fact true, that we can upgrade the head coaching position without taking undue risk.
Also, I am not sure I am familiar with what the phrase "finding a way to go long a call" means in your second to last partial sentence so I might be mischaracterizing your sentiments and, if so, I apologize.
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