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Two Truths

I’m going to throw this out here for opinions. Woodson had 2 years to help TJD develop a 10’ to 12’ jump shot. An athlete with his ability should have been able to accomplish this. Our entire season would have been different had that happened. Sadly it didn’t. Whose fault is this?
Well this year he had JHS who was usually deadly with that shot.
 
He is a winner, I bet he has never felt lost before. He should stay and learn. Learn from X, CMW on how to be a pg.
Would love for him to stay, but if he were my son and he was projected anywhere in the first round I would encourage him to go.
 
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I’m going to throw this out here for opinions. Woodson had 2 years to help TJD develop a 10’ to 12’ jump shot. An athlete with his ability should have been able to accomplish this. Our entire season would have been different had that happened. Sadly it didn’t. Whose fault is this?
Both unfortunately, Woodson could have benched him. Possibly lose him/locker room.

I think Woodson gave up trying, picked his battles with Archies damaged goods and got the most out of them. Lots of damage control. Team was broken when Woodson got here
 
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I really love reading everyone's take on what needs to be done to fix what needs to be fixed. But as I see it the coach has got to instill in the players minds that would have, could have, may have, should have just dont make it. Coach RMK would yank a player for one stupid play and make sure the player understood why he did it. Remember Landon Turner sitting so far down the bench he was almost in the bleachers, Why was that? How did that turn out in the end for Turner? The players must do as the coach has instructed or face the consequences. If there is a problem with motivation the unmotivated sit and someone on the bench comes in. And who knows, just maybe that bench player comes in and lights a fire under the rest of the mopes and gets them going. But this lack of motivation problem was allowed to fester to the point where it was almost common place and I put this squarely on da coaches. They allowed these guys to mope with no worries of their pt being taken away. No worry of splinters in their arses. No consequences for their actions leads to little or no improvement.
 
I don't see that. Obviously could happen. But that would shock me. I'm just hoping that the new infusion on the roster, whatever that ends up being, mixes with the returning guys well, whoever the returning guys end up being.

I could see a team largely led by X and Trey, maybe being more focused on consistent intensity and defense than our first two teams were??

But those things should have been demanded all along, regardless of the players, in my opinion.
Still gotta have scorers. X and maybe Reneau ,the only ones. Poor rebounding and free throw % will kill IU. Unless they get major players from the portal, it's gonna be tough to get into NIT.
 
He wasn't as up and down, overall, intensity and effort wise as guys like JHS, Race, Jordan, Tamar, and Miller were. But he wasn't immune to lapses either.
As much effort as Race? Are you srs?
Dude will come alive for one game and suddenly you all will forget the past 9 he "played" in. . No one put less effort in on the team while playing the entire season than Race, if so name someone....While no one put in MORE effort than Trey.
Bad take
 
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As much effort as Race? Are you srs?
Dude will come alive for one game and suddenly you all will forget the past 9 he "played" in. . No one put less effort in on the team while playing the entire season than Race, if so name someone....While no one put in MORE effort than Trey.
Bad take
Galloway did his best. He is not a starter but due to X's injuries, he had to play. I like Galloway a lot. He has really improved since his freshman year.
 
Still gotta have scorers. X and maybe Reneau ,the only ones. Poor rebounding and free throw % will kill IU. Unless they get major players from the portal, it's gonna be tough to get into NIT.
It might. you will have to believe it will get better over the summer.
 
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I really love reading everyone's take on what needs to be done to fix what needs to be fixed. But as I see it the coach has got to instill in the players minds that would have, could have, may have, should have just dont make it. Coach RMK would yank a player for one stupid play and make sure the player understood why he did it. Remember Landon Turner sitting so far down the bench he was almost in the bleachers, Why was that? How did that turn out in the end for Turner? The players must do as the coach has instructed or face the consequences. If there is a problem with motivation the unmotivated sit and someone on the bench comes in. And who knows, just maybe that bench player comes in and lights a fire under the rest of the mopes and gets them going. But this lack of motivation problem was allowed to fester to the point where it was almost common place and I put this squarely on da coaches. They allowed these guys to mope with no worries of their pt being taken away. No worry of splinters in their arses. No consequences for their actions leads to little or no improvement.
Different era, you can not treat today's players that way. RMK eventually got in trouble for the way he treated his players.
 
I already said it, "early in the year". You could go look at the stats too. But I did it...

First 16 games of the year...first "half" of the season.

9.25 PPG
49% 2pFG
41% 3pFG
93% FT

He can shoot...he just didn't at the end of the year. He had a couple decent games after these, but that's largely when he fell off. Mid January is the time frame.
Are we talking about this year , or last year?


Seems to me the last 2 seasons have been mirror images of each other. He hit a wall in big ten play both years.
 
He is not a starter
Lol @ galloway not being a starter.
Dudes a str8 baller.
His 3 balls are 🔥
His defense is 🔥
His push speed dribbles to the basket for a crafty finish are practically unstoppable.
Hes the 3rd best overall player on the team behind TJD and JHS.
Hes a starter for a p5 conference....
Cmon man
 
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Lol @ galloway not being a starter.
Dudes a str8 baller.
His 3 balls are 🔥
His defense is 🔥
His push speed dribbles to the basket for a crafty finish are practically unstoppable.
Hes the 3rd best overall player on the team behind TJD and JHS.
Hes a starter for a p5 conference....
Cmon man
no, he is not. he can not defend quicker, faster guards. This is the area we miss X the most. OUR losses EX; Miami, Penn st and NW. I like Galloway but quicker guards hurt him.
 
no, he is not. he can not defend quicker, faster guards. This is the area we miss X the most. OUR losses EX; Miami, Penn st and NW. I like Galloway but quicker guards hurt him.
Galloway was tasked with guarding the quickest player out on the perimeter in X's absence as he was our best remaining on-ball defender. In a perfect world he's guarding off ball where he can be disruptive in the passing lanes where he typically excels.
 
As much effort as Race? Are you srs?
Dude will come alive for one game and suddenly you all will forget the past 9 he "played" in. . No one put less effort in on the team while playing the entire season than Race, if so name someone....While no one put in MORE effort than Trey.
Bad take
Race was an effort guy his whole career at IU. He didn't have TJD's talent but he tried as hard as any player I've seen. He looked different when his knee was still bothering him but he played hard. I don't see how that can be questioned. I like Race more than most maybe because he reminds me of me when I played high school. Same position and undersized but got the most possible out of my game because of effort more than talent. I was good enough for a small college scholarship but I decided to play football instead which I did for two years and then transferred to IU.

Galloway is another guy who's effort cannot be questioned. I think he'll start again next year next to X.
 
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no, he is not. he can not defend quicker, faster guards. This is the area we miss X the most. OUR losses EX; Miami, Penn st and NW. I like Galloway but quicker guards hurt him.
I bet he starts and he plays very well.
 
Galloway was tasked with guarding the quickest player out on the perimeter in X's absence as he was our best remaining on-ball defender. In a perfect world he's guarding off ball where he can be disruptive in the passing lanes where he typically excels.
Pack was going to put up 30 on JHS (don't understand why Galloway wasn't on him in the first place).
 
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Great post! The coach has to set expectations and back those expectations up with PT if need be. We gave up 20 offensive rebounds. 20! An Izzo team never would have given up so many rebounds. Hardly anyone on the team boxes out, including our "stars".

Woody will have to have far superior talent or a great deal of luck in order to make deep runs in the tournament. There are just too many good coaches out there that will make these demands on their players and hold them accountable. IU's lazy and undisciplined play aren't attributes that will bring any kind of great success in March.
Great point about boxing out. I watched the Xavier game and those guys boxed out consistently -- it was really noticeable, especially Jerome Hunter. Lazy and undisciplined play -- another good point. How many times did we see lazy passes from our players that resulted in turnovers. That's all on the coach. And that needs to change, no matter what the talent level is.
 
Great point about boxing out. I watched the Xavier game and those guys boxed out consistently -- it was really noticeable, especially Jerome Hunter. Lazy and undisciplined play -- another good point. How many times did we see lazy passes from our players that resulted in turnovers. That's all on the coach. And that needs to change, no matter what the talent level is.
Miami is actually pretty young team when I looked at their roster. But there really is no excuse for giving up that many offensive rebounds to a team with nobody taller than 6'7 on the court. It just comes down to effeort and fundementals plain and simple. But it I guess was why most of us thought they would not advance past the round of 32 they just seemed incapable of putting two good game together the last third of the season. Just dishearting to get blown out two years in a row and not even have close games.
 
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1. Woody has improved the IU program immensely since he arrived as the head coach.
2. He's vastly underachieved with the talent he inherited.

Personal anecdote...comparing my experiences with the challenges Woody and IU face, at the high major level, in todays world, obviously isn't a perfect example. But there are core elements that I think fit. So here goes...

From my middle school years through the end of my junior year basketball season, my high school had the same basketball coach. He had some success, won our schools first sectional title in many, many years (my 8th grade year I believe). He was, very much, and offensive minded coach. Which worked out very well for me, as I was a gunner. We had very talented teams my sophomore and junior years, but just couldn't seem to put anything consistently good together. We beat some good teams, but couldn't string wins together. Again, I LOVED playing for that coach, I was having a lot of personal success. My junior year, we finished 8-13, and lost in the first round of sectionals to a team we should have beaten by 20. That night, after the game, our coach told us he was leaving. I actually cried, hard, when he told us.

A month or so later, our new coach was hired. He held a "program meeting" with all players, parents, friends...anyone that wanted to be apart of his program. He told everyone in the meeting that anyone that chooses to play in his program would do the following things. Play Hard. Defend. Be a good teammate. And he proceeded to say that he would teach us how to do all those things. But that they were expectations, not goals. And playing time, status on the team, etc... would be effected by our willingness and ability to do those things. No matter how talented we were. In our individual meetings afterwards, he joked with me about "not making it hard for him to enforce the rules." He said he needed me to play a big role, he needed my offense, but that he wouldn't play me if I didn't take those 3 things seriously. (Up until then, I hadn't taken those things seriously at all).

Anyway...the very next day, he started in with entrenching those things in to our team. They were present in every workout, every weight lifting session, every practice, and every game. I remember getting kicked out of an early practice for throwing a ball too hard at a teammate because I was mad they didn't make a play. I remember many moments early on where I had to take off the "black starter jersey" because I wasn't playing hard enough or wasn't defending...embarrassing for the top returning scorer, only returning all conference kid, etc...

With the exact same starting lineup as the year before...we went 21-4. At one point late in the season we were ranked in the top 15 in the state. We beat a top 5 team in the morning game of regionals, before losing in the final.

My point from the long story...I think the narrative that Woody "did what he could with what he had" is both true, and also not true, at the same time. I think Woody did an excellent job retaining the right players, getting transfer portal guys that would stabilize and help the program, and landing really good HS kids. Those efforts absolutely improved our program. We're unquestionably better today than we were when Archie was fired.

But he hasn't established any sort of good, quality, repeatable basketball principles for his program. They would have been more consistent for him, if he had demanded it of them. They would have defended, made better decisions with the ball, etc... if he had taught those things, and then demanded that they were done. If a HS coach can do it, with a group of talented kids that LOVED playing a certain style that was night and day different than his. Woody could have done it with much better, and more talented and versatile players. Effort, intensity, and focus shouldn't be something up for debate. At least it usually isn't for successful programs. So while I'm excited to see what Woody does this offseason. I'm more than a little wary of how his teams have played. And I'm skeptical a new cast of characters will change the narrative all that much.
So glad you told us your story. Really enjoyed reading it!!
 
I already said it, "early in the year". You could go look at the stats too. But I did it...

First 16 games of the year...first "half" of the season.

9.25 PPG
49% 2pFG
41% 3pFG
93% FT

He can shoot...he just didn't at the end of the year. He had a couple decent games after these, but that's largely when he fell off. Mid January is the time frame.
Were there any other possible reasons for a fall off in production after the Hoosiers finished their preseason cupcake schedule?
 
Is it possible that IU’s players standing around watching a 6’9 post guy who never hit one shot outside of 15 feet his entire career was sub optimal?

Asking for a friend
 
Is it possible that IU’s players standing around watching a 6’9 post guy who never hit one shot outside of 15 feet his entire career was sub optimal?

Asking for a friend
You are absolutely correct on that one. On Saturday night UConn will run a clinic showing how a team with a 6 ft 9 in and 7 ft 2 in big man can run an offense with nobody inside the paint unless they brought the ball with them. Same with Miami. That will be an awfully exciting game.

How many times would we see the ball go inside to Trayce and if he was going to be doubled the ball would be kicked out to a wing that was afraid to shoot the ball and when the defense rotated to the ball they kick it back into Trayce in the low post again. Assuming Woody gets his players we won't see that again.

On several occasions I heard Woody say that tjd can shoot the three-point shot in practice but for whatever reason he would not do it in the game. Same with Miller Kopp and before that Romeo Langford. They would camp out in the corner and wait for somebody to throw them the ball.
 
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