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Supreme Court to decide Trump immunity claim

That will never be the ruling and you know it. You can’t kill someone, shoot someone, rape someone, sell national secrets, commit some major financial crime, etc. But the office of the President is just too big for a President to have to worry about trivial little things where he forgot to dot an I or cross a T somewhere. It simply can't be allowed or the office wouldn't be able to exist. Trump survives because he has billions to buy an army of the best lawyers in America to defend him at every turn. What happens to the next Harry Truman when his bookkeeper lables a reimbursement to his lawyer a legal expense?
Your analysis is wrong but I'm proud of you for writing original content and not simply re-posting something that some idiot posted on X. Your post merits a thoughtful response.

The Court of Appeals ruled, in essence, that former president Trump is now citizen Trump and, as such, does not enjoy immunity from prosecution. "Any executive immunity that may have protected him while he served as president no longer protects him against this prosecution," the court held.

The Supreme Court disagrees with that sweeping approach. We can be sure of that because: a) they wouldn't have taken it up if they agreed; and b) the questions from some of the justices at oral argument reflect that they're looking at this with a sharper focus.

The standard isn't, as you've suggested, what's "trivial" and what isn't. The Supreme Court's focus will be on private conduct versus official acts. Trump's counsel conceded at oral argument that some of his post-election conduct targeting the election results was private (e.g. asking Rudy to spread false election fraud claims) so there's little doubt this prosecution - - in whole or in part - - will move forward.

The Court will do one of two things in the decision that's handed down later this week or next. They'll either decide for themselves what actions are private and what are official, with the latter affording immunity, or they'll set a standard for immunity and instruct the trial court to make the determination as to whether relevant conduct was official or private. If the Court goes with that second option, the case would be remanded to the trial court for a determination as to which actions were private and, accordingly, can be prosecuted.
 
That will never be the ruling and you know it. You can’t kill someone, shoot someone, rape someone, sell national secrets, commit some major financial crime, etc. But the office of the President is just too big for a President to have to worry about trivial little things where he forgot to dot an I or cross a T somewhere. It simply can't be allowed or the office wouldn't be able to exist. Trump survives because he has billions to buy an army of the best lawyers in America to defend him at every turn. What happens to the next Harry Truman when his bookkeeper lables a reimbursement to his lawyer a legal expense?
You hilariously wrote, "Trump survives because he has billions to buy an army of the best lawyers in America to defend him at every turn."

Here you go, for your collection:
rudy6.jpg



sidney-powell.png
 
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Last night Jeopardy had a question on Charles I. He famously said, "The king can do no wrong" and was found guilty and executed. He was correct, there had long been a maxim that the king could do no wrong. There was also a maxim at the time, “the king was under no man, he was under God and the law; for the law maketh the king.”

I don't envy the court, this isn't an easy question. It seems clear that Trump went into private actions as noted above, his lawyer admitted some of the actions were personal. But splitting exactly where the king can do no wrong and where the king is under the law isn't going to be easy. I think all 9 know the historic nature of what they are doing. Whether that is for good or bad I do not know. Charles I was tried in 1649, so the issue has been around for quite some time.

 
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Frik’s post misses that prosecutors aren’t supposed to bring politics and bias to their job. Brad’s link is spot on

And the lion’s share of crimes are routine, uniform and predictable with respect to dispositions. It ensures efficiency in the judicial system. Very few cases go to trial where the vagaries of juries come into play

It’s shocking nyc tied up resources on what trump was accused of doing.
As long as prosecutors are elected, politics will be part of every prosecutor's decision. I've worked in three different prosecutorial administrations. They all brought politics and bias with them. I didn't "miss" it. I'm just well acquainted with the reality of the job, rather than some theoretical ideal that coincidentally happens to suit your argument today.

The lions share of criminal cases are NOT predictable. Get a DUI in Marion County, they might not suspend your license. Get one in Boone County, you'll either be suspended or on an ignition interlock device. In both of those counties, you probably aren't looking at jail time. Morgan County or Newton County? You'll do a weekend, even if you've never been arrested before.

In Clark County? You might get a diversion. In Elwood City Court too. Most other places, the prosecutor will laugh in your face.

Prosecutorial discretion, judicial discretion, and the vagaries of juries all make a difference.

You are welcome to be shocked by what NYC did to Trump. If I were the Judge, I probably wouldn't sentence him to prison regardless of his demeanor in Court, but the main difference between what Trump did and the welfare fraud cases I prosecuted back in the day is that Trump's fraud had a bunch of extra zeroes attached to it--and my welfare fraud cases were not so well publicized, so you didn't read about it.
 
As long as prosecutors are elected, politics will be part of every prosecutor's decision. I've worked in three different prosecutorial administrations. They all brought politics and bias with them. I didn't "miss" it. I'm just well acquainted with the reality of the job, rather than some theoretical ideal that coincidentally happens to suit your argument today.

The lions share of criminal cases are NOT predictable. Get a DUI in Marion County, they might not suspend your license. Get one in Boone County, you'll either be suspended or on an ignition interlock device. In both of those counties, you probably aren't looking at jail time. Morgan County or Newton County? You'll do a weekend, even if you've never been arrested before.

In Clark County? You might get a diversion. In Elwood City Court too. Most other places, the prosecutor will laugh in your face.

Prosecutorial discretion, judicial discretion, and the vagaries of juries all make a difference.

You are welcome to be shocked by what NYC did to Trump. If I were the Judge, I probably wouldn't sentence him to prison regardless of his demeanor in Court, but the main difference between what Trump did and the welfare fraud cases I prosecuted back in the day is that Trump's fraud had a bunch of extra zeroes attached to it--and my welfare fraud cases were not so well publicized, so you didn't read about it.
You’re missing the difference. Politics is saying I don’t believe jail time is warranted for first time dwis so if they plead we’ll do an sis and community service. That’s different than targeting a politician bc of bias or the opposite party. The former is okay. The latter is not.

I’m not talking small or rural counties. I’m talking cities. Most handle dispositions by script for the lion’s share of offenses. It’s routine and uniform and predictable.

I’m well aware of the job
 
Brad's link seems to be in conflict frikken's point above.
Not really. Brad's link does not suggest that unprecedented or unusual prosecutions are always inappropriate. It provides a framework for how to think about them rationally.

I support that notion, just like I support the notion that campaign contributions shouldn't effect a Senator's decision on how to vote on a bill. But, of course, reality is quite different from that ideal.
 
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As long as prosecutors are elected, politics will be part of every prosecutor's decision. I've worked in three different prosecutorial administrations. They all brought politics and bias with them. I didn't "miss" it. I'm just well acquainted with the reality of the job, rather than some theoretical ideal that coincidentally happens to suit your argument today.

The lions share of criminal cases are NOT predictable. Get a DUI in Marion County, they might not suspend your license. Get one in Boone County, you'll either be suspended or on an ignition interlock device. In both of those counties, you probably aren't looking at jail time. Morgan County or Newton County? You'll do a weekend, even if you've never been arrested before.

In Clark County? You might get a diversion. In Elwood City Court too. Most other places, the prosecutor will laugh in your face.

Prosecutorial discretion, judicial discretion, and the vagaries of juries all make a difference.

You are welcome to be shocked by what NYC did to Trump. If I were the Judge, I probably wouldn't sentence him to prison regardless of his demeanor in Court, but the main difference between what Trump did and the welfare fraud cases I prosecuted back in the day is that Trump's fraud had a bunch of extra zeroes attached to it--and my welfare fraud cases were not so well publicized, so you didn't read about it.
I think the main difference is that (arguably) no one was hurt by Trump's actions that NYC hit him with so far. (I'm not including the Carroll verdict that did involve alleged harm).

In the civil case, the banks made money off the deals and didn't complain. In the criminal case, Trump defrauded no individual out of any money, and the government wasn't robbed of any money. That's not true of welfare fraud, where the prosecuted has robbed the government and taxpayers of money.
 
You’re missing the difference. Politics is saying I don’t believe jail time is warranted for first time dwis so if they plead we’ll do an sis and community service. That’s different than targeting a politician bc of bias or the opposite party. The former is okay. The latter is not.

I’m not talking small or rural counties. I’m talking cities. Most handle dispositions by script for the lion’s share of offenses. It’s routine and uniform and predictable.

I’m well aware of the job
You've just redefined politics to suit your argument. Politics is bad press, not just targeting opponents.

If targeting is your concern, I have bad news for you: people get targeted for any number of reasons, including politics, routinely. The common refrain, especially from law and order types, is that if you don't want to get targeted, maybe try not committing crimes.

Google "whisper stop" if you don't believe it, although if you're well acquainted with the work you won't need to.

So, to recap, things are uniform except from one jurisdiction to another, and so, uniformity should be a requirement, but apparently only within that jurisdiction? It's ok for Morgan County to be different from Marion County, but not okay for Marion County to be different from one day to the next, or for NYC to do something they've never done before. Why? Because of due process? That was coH's argument.

Or is it because the harsh reality of how ****ed up the criminal justice system is and has been for years finally matters to you now that your preferred political candidate is getting treated the same as the common folk?
 
I think the main difference is that (arguably) no one was hurt by Trump's actions that NYC hit him with so far. (I'm not including the Carroll verdict that did involve alleged harm).

In the civil case, the banks made money off the deals and didn't complain. In the criminal case, Trump defrauded no individual out of any money, and the government wasn't robbed of any money. That's not true of welfare fraud, where the prosecuted has robbed the government and taxpayers of money.
Eh, people were hurt. The bank would have made more money had Trump not lied to get more favorable terms on the loan. The bank's security for their loan (which is an asset worth millions that is routinely bought and sold on the derivatives market) was worth less than the bank was lead to believe.

In some welfare fraud cases, the Defendant is entitled to some assistance, just not as much as they received. Same idea. Trump presumably would have gotten the loans anyhow, but not as good of a deal.

Lots of victims don't complain, but that doesn't mean they aren't victims.
 
You've just redefined politics to suit your argument. Politics is bad press, not just targeting opponents.

If targeting is your concern, I have bad news for you: people get targeted for any number of reasons, including politics, routinely. The common refrain, especially from law and order types, is that if you don't want to get targeted, maybe try not committing crimes.

Google "whisper stop" if you don't believe it, although if you're well acquainted with the work you won't need to.

So, to recap, things are uniform except from one jurisdiction to another, and so, uniformity should be a requirement, but apparently only within that jurisdiction? It's ok for Morgan County to be different from Marion County, but not okay for Marion County to be different from one day to the next, or for NYC to do something they've never done before. Why? Because of due process? That was coH's argument.

Or is it because the harsh reality of how ****ed up the criminal justice system is and has been for years finally matters to you now that your preferred political candidate is getting treated the same as the common folk?
you still don't get it. a prosecutor should not campaign on finding something on a political opponent he doesn't like. A soros funded prosecutor.

Standard 3-1.6 Improper Bias Prohibited

(a) The prosecutor should not manifest or exercise, by words or conduct, bias or prejudice based upon race, sex, religion, national origin, disability, age, sexual orientation, gender identity, or socioeconomic status. A prosecutor should not use other improper considerations, such as partisan or political or personal considerations, in exercising prosecutorial discretion. A prosecutor should strive to eliminate implicit biases, and act to mitigate any improper bias or prejudice when credibly informed that it exists within the scope of the prosecutor’s authority.

it is one thing ot say i don't believe in the death penalty. i won't seek that in any case. it's a different thing to target certain people because of your bias and/or political bent. to campaign on getting someone. that's improper bias

as for jurisdictions and how they handle things it's the same way. as long as the rule is uniform and not targeting certain groups it's okay. and obviously efficiency/dockets/manpower etc dictate dispositions as well
 
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you still don't get it. a prosecutor should not campaign on finding something on a political opponent he doesn't like. A soros funded prosecutor.

Standard 3-1.6 Improper Bias Prohibited

(a) The prosecutor should not manifest or exercise, by words or conduct, bias or prejudice based upon race, sex, religion, national origin, disability, age, sexual orientation, gender identity, or socioeconomic status. A prosecutor should not use other improper considerations, such as partisan or political or personal considerations, in exercising prosecutorial discretion. A prosecutor should strive to eliminate implicit biases, and act to mitigate any improper bias or prejudice when credibly informed that it exists within the scope of the prosecutor’s authority.

it is one thing ot say i don't believe in the death penalty. i won't seek that in any case. it's a different thing to target certain people because of your bias and/or political bent. to campaign on getting someone. that's improper bias

as for jurisdictions and how they handle things it's the same way. as long as the rule is uniform and not targeting certain groups it's okay. and obviously efficiency/dockets/manpower etc dictate dispositions as well
Trump's criminal wrongdoing was clearly set forth in the Michael Cohen indictment where Trump was identified as "Individual 1." That indictment, and the prosecution of Cohen, preceded Bragg's election as DA.

It's not like Bragg's prosecution of Trump was a function of Bragg pulling something out of his ass. He had a reasonable basis for believing Trump was involved in criminal activity.
 
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Eh, people were hurt. The bank would have made more money had Trump not lied to get more favorable terms on the loan. The bank's security for their loan (which is an asset worth millions that is routinely bought and sold on the derivatives market) was worth less than the bank was lead to believe.

In some welfare fraud cases, the Defendant is entitled to some assistance, just not as much as they received. Same idea. Trump presumably would have gotten the loans anyhow, but not as good of a deal.

Lots of victims don't complain, but that doesn't mean they aren't victims.
1. I don't think it was proven that the bank would have made more money but for the document Trump filled out. They did their own due diligence and they are very financially sophisticated. Much more so than the NYC AGs office. They knew the risks of the loan.

2. You didn't respond to the criminal charges--who was hurt?

3. Your argument in the whole here seems a bit contradictory. One the one hand, you claim prosecutors use their powers to go after political opponents all the time so it can't be complained about. But on the other, Trump shouldn't complain that NYC real estate guys apparently fib all the time on all sorts of loan docs (they do that in Chicago all the time, for sure, and I'm guessing in most very large metro areas).

To me, though, your admission that prosecutors are routinely targeting people all the time because of their politics means we should investigate this and correct it, just as we have and should continue to look into police who overstep their bounds.
 
2. You didn't respond to the criminal charges--who was hurt?

Here is a question. Suppose I convince you to give me $2 and I promise to repay you $20,000 as my business is just about to explode. And one the surface it sure looks like I have $20,000. You do it. My plan, as I don't have $20,000 to repay you, is to win the Powerball. I do, I pay you back $20,000. Have I committed fraud. You weren't hurt.

I am trying to think of fraud scenarios that don't yet have a victim. Early ponzi schemes don't have victims.

I'm not sure how it ties into Trump, that isn't my point. I am trying to figure out if damage is required. Can we shut down a ponzi scheme before the people come in at the bottom who can never recoup appear?
 
Here is a question. Suppose I convince you to give me $2 and I promise to repay you $20,000 as my business is just about to explode. And one the surface it sure looks like I have $20,000. You do it. My plan, as I don't have $20,000 to repay you, is to win the Powerball. I do, I pay you back $20,000. Have I committed fraud. You weren't hurt.

I am trying to think of fraud scenarios that don't yet have a victim. Early ponzi schemes don't have victims.

I'm not sure how it ties into Trump, that isn't my point. I am trying to figure out if damage is required. Can we shut down a ponzi scheme before the people come in at the bottom who can never recoup appear?
Intent gets tricky with your hypo but without an actual statute and elements it’s impossible to answer
 
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2. You didn't respond to the criminal charges--who was hurt?
Most of the projects that Trump was using that money for likely had multiple bidders. Trump potentially got those projects because he was able to offer the largest amount of money as a bid, but that money was only available because he lied about his assets. So the #2 bidder might have had the higher bid price if Trump hadn't lied.
Those buildings can cost hundreds of millions of dollars to make, but location can have a huge impact on the rate of return for investment. That number 2 bidder had to go find a different project where the rate of return may not have been as great.

Sure, it's not a huge loss, but bidder #2 probably lost some money because of it.
 
I like you Willdog. Would you be willing to accept the nomination at the convention when we kick Joe to the curb? We’d give you Whitmer as your running mate, or would you insist on Sharpton?
Sure sure, make willdog president. Then you can blame everything on the black guy.

You racist pig!
 
Here is a question. Suppose I convince you to give me $2 and I promise to repay you $20,000 as my business is just about to explode. And one the surface it sure looks like I have $20,000. You do it. My plan, as I don't have $20,000 to repay you, is to win the Powerball. I do, I pay you back $20,000. Have I committed fraud. You weren't hurt.

I am trying to think of fraud scenarios that don't yet have a victim. Early ponzi schemes don't have victims.

I'm not sure how it ties into Trump, that isn't my point. I am trying to figure out if damage is required. Can we shut down a ponzi scheme before the people come in at the bottom who can never recoup appear?
Fraud, as defined for centuries, requires harm.

Yes, theoretically, you were hurt by taking more risk than you thought you were. That's not the case with the banks here, though. Trump was good for 100% of the loan based on his net worth. Plus, no good prosecutor is going after someone when they didn't hurt anyone else.

On the point of whether Trump's inflated net worth numbers would have affected the loan terms:


And per the AP (hardly a right-wing source):

"An Associated Press analysis of nearly 70 years of civil cases under the law showed that such a penalty has only been imposed a dozen previous times, and Trump’s case stands apart in a significant way: It’s the only big business found that was threatened with a shutdown without a showing of obvious victims and major losses."


Look, I'm not crying for Trump. But let's not kid ourselves: NY Dems have targeted him and are using some pretty questionable legal gymnastics to get him. The notion that this is just routine prosecutions of a financial fraudster is untenable.
 
Intent gets tricky with your hypo but without an actual statute and elements it’s impossible to answer
I am sure it all rests on the specifics. If Madoff had at the last second found enough to pay everyone back, would it be fraud? I don't know. At some point I think there has to be damage. On the other hand, I'm not sure we want people committing blatant fraud and getting away with it by unimaginable luck as that would seem to encourage more people to take the 1 in a million shot.
 
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Most of the projects that Trump was using that money for likely had multiple bidders. Trump potentially got those projects because he was able to offer the largest amount of money as a bid, but that money was only available because he lied about his assets. So the #2 bidder might have had the higher bid price if Trump hadn't lied.
Those buildings can cost hundreds of millions of dollars to make, but location can have a huge impact on the rate of return for investment. That number 2 bidder had to go find a different project where the rate of return may not have been as great.

Sure, it's not a huge loss, but bidder #2 probably lost some money because of it.
What does that have to do with the Stormy Daniels case?

Re your theory, it's an interesting one. No proof for it, though.
 
Eh, people were hurt. The bank would have made more money had Trump not lied to get more favorable terms on the loan. The bank's security for their loan (which is an asset worth millions that is routinely bought and sold on the derivatives market) was worth less than the bank was lead to believe.

In some welfare fraud cases, the Defendant is entitled to some assistance, just not as much as they received. Same idea. Trump presumably would have gotten the loans anyhow, but not as good of a deal.

Lots of victims don't complain, but that doesn't mean they aren't victims.
Two things:

Whether an individual or entity was "harmed" should be irrelevant to deciding whether a specific criminal statue was violated. Attempted murder is a crime even if the intended victim never knew about it. Driving over the speed limit on a deserted country road with no other traffic is still a crime even if there was no traffic accident. What matters is whether the proven facts satisfy the language in the criminal statute.

And, some clairvoyant posters on this thread speculate that Alvin Bragg was improperly out to "get" Trump because he is a Democrat and Trump is a Republican. For every Alvin Bragg there are dozens of Republican prosecutors who have used their prosecutorial discretion to protect Trump by ignoring his activities, refusing to investigate him and even making their own campaign statements in support of Trump -- simply because they are Republicans and Trump is a Republican. These political decisions of Republican prosecutors to blindly help Trump appear to violate the same ethical rules (or not) to the same extent as the desperate Republicans are claiming about Bragg. Looks like Republicans like a two-tiered system after all.
 
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I am sure it all rests on the specifics. If Madoff had at the last second found enough to pay everyone back, would it be fraud? I don't know. At some point I think there has to be damage. On the other hand, I'm not sure we want people committing blatant fraud and getting away with it by unimaginable luck as that would seem to encourage more people to take the 1 in a million shot.
Specifics. Statute elements. Whether there are victims. Whether it might better be suited in civil court. On and on.
 
1. I don't think it was proven that the bank would have made more money but for the document Trump filled out. They did their own due diligence and they are very financially sophisticated. Much more so than the NYC AGs office. They knew the risks of the loan.

2. You didn't respond to the criminal charges--who was hurt?

3. Your argument in the whole here seems a bit contradictory. One the one hand, you claim prosecutors use their powers to go after political opponents all the time so it can't be complained about. But on the other, Trump shouldn't complain that NYC real estate guys apparently fib all the time on all sorts of loan docs (they do that in Chicago all the time, for sure, and I'm guessing in most very large metro areas).

To me, though, your admission that prosecutors are routinely targeting people all the time because of their politics means we should investigate this and correct it, just as we have and should continue to look into police who overstep their bounds.
Ha, apologies, I got the facts of his civil fraud case mixed up with his criminal hush money trial. My bad.

But you also seem to be running with it, so...according to the AP report of the Judge's findings, Trump got better interest rates on loans because of the lies. Higher interest means more money for the bank. That's who was hurt.

Do I really have to explain the harm done by lying on federal election filings?

You've misstated my arguments. I don't have the time to watch you burn straw men. I gotta get back to work. Take care everyone.
 
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Fraud, as defined for centuries, requires harm.

Yes, theoretically, you were hurt by taking more risk than you thought you were. That's not the case with the banks here, though. Trump was good for 100% of the loan based on his net worth. Plus, no good prosecutor is going after someone when they didn't hurt anyone else.

On the point of whether Trump's inflated net worth numbers would have affected the loan terms:


And per the AP (hardly a right-wing source):

"An Associated Press analysis of nearly 70 years of civil cases under the law showed that such a penalty has only been imposed a dozen previous times, and Trump’s case stands apart in a significant way: It’s the only big business found that was threatened with a shutdown without a showing of obvious victims and major losses."


Look, I'm not crying for Trump. But let's not kid ourselves: NY Dems have targeted him and are using some pretty questionable legal gymnastics to get him. The notion that this is just routine prosecutions of a financial fraudster is untenable.
Your AP link is stale and irrelevant. His business empire wasn't "dissolved," not even close. The fine was probably excessive and will be addressed on appeal.
 
Two things:

Whether an individual or entity was "harmed" should be irrelevant to deciding whether a specific criminal statue was violated. Attempted murder is a crime even if the intended victim never knew about it. Driving over the speed limit on a deserted country road with no other traffic is still a crime even if there was no traffic accident. What matters is whether the proven facts satisfy the language in the criminal statute.

And, some clairvoyant posters on this thread speculate that Alvin Bragg was improperly out to "get" Trump because he is a Democrat and Trump is a Republican. For every Alvin Bragg there are dozens of Republican prosecutors who have used their prosecutorial discretion to protect Trump by ignoring his activities, refusing to investigate him and even making their own campaign statements in support of Trump -- simply because they are Republicans and Trump is a Republican. These political decisions of Republican prosecutors to blindly help Trump appear to violate the same ethical rules (or not) to the same extent as the desperate Republicans are claiming about Bragg. Looks like Republicans like a two-tiered system after all.
1. I know.

2. Whataboutism doesn't help, even if it's all true (and I believe it).
 
1. I don't think it was proven that the bank would have made more money but for the document Trump filled out. They did their own due diligence and they are very financially sophisticated. Much more so than the NYC AGs office. They knew the risks of the loan.

2. You didn't respond to the criminal charges--who was hurt?

3. Your argument in the whole here seems a bit contradictory. One the one hand, you claim prosecutors use their powers to go after political opponents all the time so it can't be complained about. But on the other, Trump shouldn't complain that NYC real estate guys apparently fib all the time on all sorts of loan docs (they do that in Chicago all the time, for sure, and I'm guessing in most very large metro areas).

To me, though, your admission that prosecutors are routinely targeting people all the time because of their politics means we should investigate this and correct it, just as we have and should continue to look into police who overstep their bounds.
Why do you insist that the elements of Trump's prosecution required proof that someone "was hurt" (whatever that means)?

If you're hellbent on investigating prosecutors, please investigate all the Republican prosecutors and Republican candidates for the office of prosecutor who have made pro-Trump political statements or who have refused to investigate him when presented with complaints about him.
 
Ha, apologies, I got the facts of his civil fraud case mixed up with his criminal hush money trial. My bad.

But you also seem to be running with it, so...according to the AP report of the Judge's findings, Trump got better interest rates on loans because of the lies. Higher interest means more money for the bank. That's who was hurt.

Do I really have to explain the harm done by lying on federal election filings?

You've misstated my arguments. I don't have the time to watch you burn straw men. I gotta get back to work. Take care everyone.
Not trying to set up straw men. It's understandable getting confused with all of Trump's legal cases. I'm sure he gets them mixed up in his head, too.

Re lying on federal election filings: that's not what he was found guilty of. Not sure the NY AG would even have jurisdiction for that.
 
Your AP link is stale and irrelevant. His business empire wasn't "dissolved," not even close. The fine was probably excessive and will be addressed on appeal.
It's not stale or irrelevant for the proposition I used it for:

Trump’s case stands apart in a significant way: It’s the only big business found that was threatened with a shutdown without a showing of obvious victims and major losses."
 
1. I don't think it was proven that the bank would have made more money but for the document Trump filled out. They did their own due diligence and they are very financially sophisticated. Much more so than the NYC AGs office. They knew the risks of the loan.

Why even try, man...why even try?

The AP says DB shoulda made more money.

Big banks are the problem...unless it's Trump.
 
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It's not stale or irrelevant for the proposition I used it for:

Trump’s case stands apart in a significant way: It’s the only big business found that was threatened with a shutdown without a showing of obvious victims and major losses."
Threatened by whom? MSNBC? The prosecution wasn't asking for the corporate death penalty. And the judge didn't impose it.
 
Ha, apologies, I got the facts of his civil fraud case mixed up with his criminal hush money trial. My bad.

But you also seem to be running with it, so...according to the AP report of the Judge's findings, Trump got better interest rates on loans because of the lies. Higher interest means more money for the bank. That's who was hurt.

Do I really have to explain the harm done by lying on federal election filings?

You've misstated my arguments. I don't have the time to watch you burn straw men. I gotta get back to work. Take care everyone.
Come back tho. We need more posters that contribute debate/content
 
1. I know.

2. Whataboutism doesn't help, even if it's all true (and I believe it).
If there was any whataboutism, it is already built into the following language from the ethical rule that some posters claim above to apply to Bragg:

"A prosecutor should not use other improper considerations, such as partisan or political or personal considerations, in exercising prosecutorial discretion."

If that language applies, it applies equally to prosecutors who choose not to file charges as much as to those who do file charges. That's really the relevant point.
 
If there was any whataboutism, it is already built into the following language from the ethical rule that some posters claim above to apply to Bragg:

"A prosecutor should not use other improper considerations, such as partisan or political or personal considerations, in exercising prosecutorial discretion."

If that language applies, it applies equally to prosecutors who choose not to file charges as much as to those who do file charges. That's really the relevant point.
There was no ethical/professional responsibility violation by Bragg.

The Southern District recognized that Trump was involved in criminal activity. We know that from the Cohen indictment. They told Bragg's predecessor, Cy Vance, to "stand down" while they investigated further.

The Southern District was initially unable to bring charges because Trump was the sitting president, and they later lost their appetite for the case for a few reasons, including a concern that Cohen would be a terrible witness. The Manhattan DA's investigation found corroborating documentary evidence and witnesses to support Cohen's testimony, and Bragg had the balls to move forward with what ultimately turned out to be a slam-dunk case.

Trump had been flouting the law for years. He got away with it for so long because he had friends in high places, was always the richest guy in the room, and was ultimately able to hide behind the office of the presidency. It's good to see justice finally served.
 
There was no ethical/professional responsibility violation by Bragg.

The Southern District recognized that Trump was involved in criminal activity. We know that from the Cohen indictment. They told Bragg's predecessor, Cy Vance, to "stand down" while they investigated further.

The Southern District was initially unable to bring charges because Trump was the sitting president, and they later lost their appetite for the case for a few reasons, including a concern that Cohen would be a terrible witness. The Manhattan DA's investigation found corroborating documentary evidence and witnesses to support Cohen's testimony, and Bragg had the balls to move forward with what ultimately turned out to be a slam-dunk case.

Trump had been flouting the law for years. He got away with it for so long because he had friends in high places, was always the richest guy in the room, and was ultimately able to hide behind the office of the presidency. It's good to see justice finally served.

And celebration ensued.

Star Wars Episode 6 GIF
GIF by Star Wars
 
Or is it because the harsh reality of how ****ed up the criminal justice system is and has been for years finally matters to you now that your preferred political candidate is getting treated the same as the common folk?
Unfortunate truth - just how awful many people within the system really are.
 
Come back tho. We need more posters that contribute debate/content
Eh. I dunno. I get paid to argue. I don't usually sell the milk when I can mortgage the cow for free.

(I butchered this idiom on purpose, don't @ me about it)

In truth, I don't care for arguing that much. What did I accomplish today? The people who already agreed with me probably still do, and the people who didn't still don't.
 
Eh. I dunno. I get paid to argue. I don't usually sell the milk when I can mortgage the cow for free.

(I butchered this idiom on purpose, don't @ me about it)

In truth, I don't care for arguing that much. What did I accomplish today? The people who already agreed with me probably still do, and the people who didn't still don't.
No no, you totally changed my mind. I went out and bought a Biden hat after reading your stuff.

VBG.




No, in all seriousness, stick around. It’s nice to have intelligent voices here.
 
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