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Do we really? Most of these labor jobs that are relatively simple are work done by people under 40 or so. With our demographics skewing older and grayer by the year, maybe there is just a lot more demand for services and not enough supply.

How would you go about starting a landscaping company today, for example? Or home remodeling.... which only requires experienced trades for under 50% of the actual work. The rest being done by laborers who demo, haul, scrape paint etc....
I checked, the migrant farm worker shortage is worse than ever. Add that to your list.

 
Are any of you guys experiencing convenience stores with empty shelves? Casey’s has only small cups for drinks and the shelves with snacks practically empty.

The family convenience stores in our area have empty shelves too.
I sometimes use a factory outside of rolla Missouri. The owner is a far right conspiracy nut. Anyway I was there not long ago and he had a bunch of unmarked boxes in the lobby. A whole skid full. When he came out to meet me I told him they had porn on the internet now. He goes here check this out. He opened one of the boxes and the company was called patriots are some shit. It was all food that lasts up to 25 years. He bought a shit ton of it to store in the factory because he believes there won't be enough truckers to handle shipments and we're going to have a food crisis next year. I told him I'd rather just die than eat space food. He didn't like that. anyway some people are starting to get worried. crazy people but still people. might be a good time to get into the hoarding business
 
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I checked, the migrant farm worker shortage is worse than ever. Add that to your list.

There is obviously no cause and effect between Biden’s border chaos and farm labor.

FWIW I think we have always been pretty liberal about migrant farm labor, at least in California, so why the shortage?
 
Actually "unskilled" labor shortages are probably the biggest issue in the economy right now.
Best-funny-Caddyshack-quotes-ditch-diggers-5bab9a50c9e77c0025e0b9eb.png
 
I sometimes use a factory outside of rolla Missouri. The owner is a far right conspiracy nut. Anyway I was there not long ago and he had a bunch of unmarked boxes in the lobby. A whole skid full. When he came out to meet me I told him they had porn on the internet now. He goes here check this out. He opened one of the boxes and the company was called patriots are some shit. It was all food that lasts up to 25 years. He bought a shit ton of it to store in the factory because he believes there won't be enough truckers to handle shipments and we're going to have a food crisis next year. I told him I'd rather just die than eat space food. He didn't like that. anyway some people are starting to get worried. crazy people but still people. might be a good time to get into the hoarding business
I get it....on our kroger clicklist they substituted for a different type of tortilla chip. It wasn't bad, just not the same. i cannot believe aoc, hunter, blm, woke culture
 
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There is obviously no cause and effect between Biden’s border chaos and farm labor.

FWIW I think we have always been pretty liberal about migrant farm labor, at least in California, so why the shortage?

Just pointing out that the US needs unskilled labor. When I Google "retail worker shortage" and "restaurant worker shortage" I get lists of problems.

In 2019, the number of Americans between 16 and 64, listed as "working age", plateaued. In 2020 it fell be .1%. not a huge fall, but a fall. So there are fewer workers today. Add in that we did cut back on immigrants and there are even fewer workers. We have a worker shortage across the economy.


Above you said it is no longer true that there are jobs Americans do not want. Well, the retail and restaurant shortage suggests there are such jobs. And in CA, where they upped their pay for migrant workers they found that Americans still did not want the jobs


Immigration is a federal issue. Does CA have a right to bring in immigrant farm workers not given proper documentation by the feds? Your statement about CA being liberal certainly implies CA can throw up a "welcome in" sign without the feds.
 
Above you said it is no longer true that there are jobs Americans do not want
I didn’t say that it wasn’t true. . I said that we can no longer accept that as a reason for massive unrestricted immigration. We have a multitude of problems that contribute to labor shortage. Education, drugs, gangs, liberal safety nets are among those. Tough choices and must be made and we are both unwilling, and as is becoming obvious with Congress, unable to make those choices. So we just tax and spend even more.
 
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I didn’t say that it wasn’t true. . I said that we can no longer accept that as a reason for massive unrestricted immigration. We have a multitude of problems that contribute to labor shortage. Education, drugs, gangs, liberal safety nets are among those. Tough choices and must be made and we are both unwilling, and as is becoming obvious with Congress, unable to make those choices. So we just tax and spend even more.

Our xenophobia makes almost all immigration difficult. Almost all because Trump made it clear Norwegians were welcome here. So we blame policies designed to keep people from starving because those are the real problems facing this country, not enough people starving.
 
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I sometimes use a factory outside of rolla Missouri. The owner is a far right conspiracy nut. Anyway I was there not long ago and he had a bunch of unmarked boxes in the lobby. A whole skid full. When he came out to meet me I told him they had porn on the internet now. He goes here check this out. He opened one of the boxes and the company was called patriots are some shit. It was all food that lasts up to 25 years. He bought a shit ton of it to store in the factory because he believes there won't be enough truckers to handle shipments and we're going to have a food crisis next year. I told him I'd rather just die than eat space food. He didn't like that. anyway some people are starting to get worried. crazy people but still people. might be a good time to get into the hoarding business
We Amish folks are self sufficient. We can put a bullet in the head of a pig or cow and process our meat. We can pull the heads off some of our chickens, dip them in boiling water, pluck the feathers off, butcher them and freeze. Gizzards are particularly interesting to clean. Most likely city folks wouldn’t ever order them again if they helped clean a few. We’ve canned green beans, corn and other items. We will continue eating well until the city slickers come and steal our food. 😂
 
We Amish folks are self sufficient. We can put a bullet in the head of a pig or cow and process our meat. We can pull the heads off some of our chickens, dip them in boiling water, pluck the feathers off, butcher them and freeze. Gizzards are particularly interesting to clean. Most likely city folks wouldn’t ever order them again if they helped clean a few. We’ve canned green beans, corn and other items. We will continue eating well until the city slickers come and steal our food. 😂
love it. i'll be at the front of the first wave that will die.
 
Our xenophobia makes almost all immigration difficult. Almost all because Trump made it clear Norwegians were welcome here. So we blame policies designed to keep people from starving because those are the real problems facing this country, not enough people starving.
There you go again with the “X” word.

Buh bye.
 
We Amish folks are self sufficient. We can put a bullet in the head of a pig or cow and process our meat. We can pull the heads off some of our chickens, dip them in boiling water, pluck the feathers off, butcher them and freeze. Gizzards are particularly interesting to clean. Most likely city folks wouldn’t ever order them again if they helped clean a few. We’ve canned green beans, corn and other items. We will continue eating well until the city slickers come and steal our food. 😂
IUHickory can do all those things 😝
 
There you go again with the “X” word.

Buh bye.
It is easy being you, just pretend the world is filled with unicorns and elves and refuse to discuss the hard questions. Just put your fingers in your ears and repeat, "xenophobia does not exist" and everything will be perfect.

You know here people have complained about immigrants still speaking Spanish. That is xenophobia, no other word for it. But don't worry, it does not exist. It is a make believe word.
 
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It is easy being you, just pretend the world is filled with unicorns and elves and refuse to discuss the hard questions. Just put your fingers in your ears and repeat, "xenophobia does not exist" and everything will be perfect.

You know here people have complained about immigrants still speaking Spanish. That is xenophobia, no other word for it. But don't worry, it does not exist. It is a make believe word.
I don’t need a lecture about refusing to discuss hard questions from one who thinks xenophobia is the reason immigration is a tough issue.
 
We Amish folks are self sufficient. We can put a bullet in the head of a pig or cow and process our meat. We can pull the heads off some of our chickens, dip them in boiling water, pluck the feathers off, butcher them and freeze. Gizzards are particularly interesting to clean. Most likely city folks wouldn’t ever order them again if they helped clean a few. We’ve canned green beans, corn and other items. We will continue eating well until the city slickers come and steal our food. 😂
Yeah, but can you write a will?
 
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Are any of you guys experiencing convenience stores with empty shelves? Casey’s has only small cups for drinks and the shelves with snacks practically empty.

The family convenience stores in our area have empty shelves too.
I don't know about candy but the shortage on paper and plastic is nationwide. Restaurants are using three times what they used to and manufacturers can't keep up with demand.
 
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I don't know about candy but the shortage on paper and plastic is nationwide. Restaurants are using three times what they used to and manufacturers can't keep up with demand.
I commented last week that my office supplies company warned me of shortages of copy paper coming in tax season. They’ve been long time client. I believed him. I bought three pallets. He said price will be high if available.
 
I don’t need a lecture about refusing to discuss hard questions from one who thinks xenophobia is the reason immigration is a tough issue.

Xenophobia makes it harder than it needs to be, and everyone this side of an ostrich or a xenophobe knows that.

Japan has a right government and a long history of xenophobia. They opened up immigration because they stopped growing.


When one complains about chain immigration I guarantee it isn't Melania's use of it that they are picturing.

When one complained that Mexicans didn't learn English, that was xenophobia (though in the old days it was the Germans who didn't learn English).

We need immigrants. We need engineers, AND we need migrant workers. Not all our immigrants are going to look like Gisele or Melania.

One of our posters said "... I went to 3 different Haji-Mart liquor stores that was...". What does that sound like to you? Do you think that is someone open about immigration (at least from non-supermodels)?

Xenophobia makes the issue harder given our history of trying to be open. It made it easy for Japan who pretty much has always refused foreigners. The thing is, I don't believe you are xenophobic. But for some reason you are very worried about increased LEGAL immigration wanting it only for STEM. We need STEM, but tell the restaurants cutting hours they don't need workers. Here in Bloomington, Nicks is closed on Sunday and Monday because they don't have the staff. Village Deli closed a month, and he closed his burrito store entirely, both because there are no workers. Those people who proudly want to be seen as pro-business should worry about this problem.

If we ignore xenophobia, the obvious answer is we need more immigrants. We need them for various jobs, some elite-level and some as day laborers. And here is something, our teenage unemployment rate is low.

The teenage unemployment rate was 9.6 percent in May and 9.9 percent in June, lower than at any time since the early‐ to mid‐1950s. Teenagers, however, can’t fill demand in the labor market for long — especially when the school year begins in the fall.​

We are short workers even though teens are working at the highest rates in 70 years. Here is the last part of that CATO piece:

It’s clear that immigrant workers, entrepreneurs and consumers can help jumpstart the economic recovery. The Biden administration should do everything it can to increase the pace of legal immigration.​
Tell me how CATO is wrong?
 
Xenophobia makes it harder than it needs to be, and everyone this side of an ostrich or a xenophobe knows that.

Japan has a right government and a long history of xenophobia. They opened up immigration because they stopped growing.


When one complains about chain immigration I guarantee it isn't Melania's use of it that they are picturing.

When one complained that Mexicans didn't learn English, that was xenophobia (though in the old days it was the Germans who didn't learn English).

We need immigrants. We need engineers, AND we need migrant workers. Not all our immigrants are going to look like Gisele or Melania.

One of our posters said "... I went to 3 different Haji-Mart liquor stores that was...". What does that sound like to you? Do you think that is someone open about immigration (at least from non-supermodels)?

Xenophobia makes the issue harder given our history of trying to be open. It made it easy for Japan who pretty much has always refused foreigners. The thing is, I don't believe you are xenophobic. But for some reason you are very worried about increased LEGAL immigration wanting it only for STEM. We need STEM, but tell the restaurants cutting hours they don't need workers. Here in Bloomington, Nicks is closed on Sunday and Monday because they don't have the staff. Village Deli closed a month, and he closed his burrito store entirely, both because there are no workers. Those people who proudly want to be seen as pro-business should worry about this problem.

If we ignore xenophobia, the obvious answer is we need more immigrants. We need them for various jobs, some elite-level and some as day laborers. And here is something, our teenage unemployment rate is low.

The teenage unemployment rate was 9.6 percent in May and 9.9 percent in June, lower than at any time since the early‐ to mid‐1950s. Teenagers, however, can’t fill demand in the labor market for long — especially when the school year begins in the fall.​

We are short workers even though teens are working at the highest rates in 70 years. Here is the last part of that CATO piece:

It’s clear that immigrant workers, entrepreneurs and consumers can help jumpstart the economic recovery. The Biden administration should do everything it can to increase the pace of legal immigration.​
Tell me how CATO is wrong?
What is the CATO stance on social safety nets?
 
Xenophobia makes it harder than it needs to be, and everyone this side of an ostrich or a xenophobe knows that.

Japan has a right government and a long history of xenophobia. They opened up immigration because they stopped growing.


When one complains about chain immigration I guarantee it isn't Melania's use of it that they are picturing.

When one complained that Mexicans didn't learn English, that was xenophobia (though in the old days it was the Germans who didn't learn English).

We need immigrants. We need engineers, AND we need migrant workers. Not all our immigrants are going to look like Gisele or Melania.

One of our posters said "... I went to 3 different Haji-Mart liquor stores that was...". What does that sound like to you? Do you think that is someone open about immigration (at least from non-supermodels)?

Xenophobia makes the issue harder given our history of trying to be open. It made it easy for Japan who pretty much has always refused foreigners. The thing is, I don't believe you are xenophobic. But for some reason you are very worried about increased LEGAL immigration wanting it only for STEM. We need STEM, but tell the restaurants cutting hours they don't need workers. Here in Bloomington, Nicks is closed on Sunday and Monday because they don't have the staff. Village Deli closed a month, and he closed his burrito store entirely, both because there are no workers. Those people who proudly want to be seen as pro-business should worry about this problem.

If we ignore xenophobia, the obvious answer is we need more immigrants. We need them for various jobs, some elite-level and some as day laborers. And here is something, our teenage unemployment rate is low.

The teenage unemployment rate was 9.6 percent in May and 9.9 percent in June, lower than at any time since the early‐ to mid‐1950s. Teenagers, however, can’t fill demand in the labor market for long — especially when the school year begins in the fall.​

We are short workers even though teens are working at the highest rates in 70 years. Here is the last part of that CATO piece:

It’s clear that immigrant workers, entrepreneurs and consumers can help jumpstart the economic recovery. The Biden administration should do everything it can to increase the pace of legal immigration.​
Tell me how CATO is wrong?
Since Biden sowed the seeds of chaos at the Souther border, I’ve seen and heard dozens of Democrat Hispanic mayors, sheriffs, and Hispanic Border Patrol agents serverly criticize the Biden, Harris, Mayotkas brain trust about uncontrolled and illegal immigration. I don’t think those people are xenophobic. maybe you do.

CATO is not wrong. Most all people, including Trump, have agreed.
 
What is the CATO stance on social safety nets?
They are of course against them. But studies show immigrants do not create a problem with safety nets.

First, to receive most public benefits under the social safety net, immigrants must be lawful permanent residents for at least five years.​
There are approximately 9 million immigrants that fit that definition in the U.S. Of those, many would not qualify for welfare or other programs because their incomes are too high.​
“While it is really important to ensure that immigrants and their children have access to the safety net, there are already a lot of eligibility barriers in place,” said Hamutal Bernstein, a senior research associate at the Urban Institute.​

Googling shows a lot of studies reporting that immigrants use the safety net far less than us natives. If anyone has a countervailing study I'd love to see it.
 
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They are of course against them. But studies show immigrants do not create a problem with safety nets.

First, to receive most public benefits under the social safety net, immigrants must be lawful permanent residents for at least five years.​
There are approximately 9 million immigrants that fit that definition in the U.S. Of those, many would not qualify for welfare or other programs because their incomes are too high.​
“While it is really important to ensure that immigrants and their children have access to the safety net, there are already a lot of eligibility barriers in place,” said Hamutal Bernstein, a senior research associate at the Urban Institute.​

Googling shows a lot of studies reporting that immigrants use the safety net far less than us natives. If anyone has a countervailing study I'd love to see it.
Do you agree with Cato's stance on social safety nets?
I was long an advocate of virtually all of Cato's policy positions. But I see no way we get there....grandma eating dogfood and all the other asinine comments.
If we are all in on their positions, I believe it will work great for the vast majority. Do we have the stomach to implement all their policy positions?
 
I commented last week that my office supplies company warned me of shortages of copy paper coming in tax season. They’ve been long time client. I believed him. I bought three pallets. He said price will be high if available.
We didn’t have these shortages when Trump was in office!
 
Do you agree with Cato's stance on social safety nets?
I was long an advocate of virtually all of Cato's policy positions. But I see no way we get there....grandma eating dogfood and all the other asinine comments.
If we are all in on their positions, I believe it will work great for the vast majority. Do we have the stomach to implement all their policy positions?

Of course not. I used CATO though because they aren't far left. I found a similar post from Brookings, Urban Institute, and the ACLU. I am just not sure many would have just rolled their eyes.
 
Of course not. I used CATO though because they aren't far left. I found a similar post from Brookings, Urban Institute, and the ACLU. I am just not sure many would have just rolled their eyes.
Their stance on immigration and trade and safety nets and......
It all has to be implemented for it to work.
 
Their stance on immigration and trade and safety nets and......
It all has to be implemented for it to work.

Why? I still see little evidence reported that immigrants use the safety net. Everything I have seen is that they work longer and in greater percentage and use the net less.

There is nothing that says we cannot extend that 5 year limit. If there is a problem with immigrants, we could make it 10 years.
 
Why? I still see little evidence reported that immigrants use the safety net. Everything I have seen is that they work longer and in greater percentage and use the net less.

There is nothing that says we cannot extend that 5 year limit. If there is a problem with immigrants, we could make it 10 years.
Unaccompanied minors didn't make use of the safety nets for 5 years?
 
Unaccompanied minors didn't make use of the safety nets for 5 years?
Would you call these centers a safety net?


But several times above I have said "legal" immigration. There is a debate to be had about illegal immigration. If a kid proves they are a fleeing refugee, we've always had exceptions to allow that. For immigrants in general"

The second factor is date of entry into the United States. Specifically, qualified immigrants who entered after August 22, 1996 are barred from SSI and food stamps until they become citizens and from TANF, Medicaid, and SCHIP for five years after entry.​
And for political asylum:

Refugees and asylees are eligible for all welfare benefits for the first seven years they reside in the U.S., after which their eligibility is greatly reduced. Non-citizens who have worked for ten years and armed forces personnel and their dependents are eligible for all benefits. Finally, some emergency benefits?especially Medicaid?are provided to all non-citizens.​
A major provision of the 1996 legislation required that most legal immigrants have sponsors with incomes over 125 percent of the federal poverty line. The provision also required the income of sponsors to be deemed as available to the immigrants when calculating eligibility for welfare benefits, which usually has the effect of disqualifying them from benefits. The sponsor was also held liable for the costs of any welfare benefit used by the immigrant. The purpose of these requirements was to ensure that sponsors assume financial responsibility for newcomers, thereby reducing the potential burden on taxpayers.​
CATO may not like the safety net, but they did tweet this:

Overall, immigrants are less likely to consume welfare benefits and, when they do, they generally consume a lower dollar value of benefits than native-born Americans.​

 
Would you call these centers a safety net?


But several times above I have said "legal" immigration. There is a debate to be had about illegal immigration. If a kid proves they are a fleeing refugee, we've always had exceptions to allow that. For immigrants in general"

The second factor is date of entry into the United States. Specifically, qualified immigrants who entered after August 22, 1996 are barred from SSI and food stamps until they become citizens and from TANF, Medicaid, and SCHIP for five years after entry.​
And for political asylum:

Refugees and asylees are eligible for all welfare benefits for the first seven years they reside in the U.S., after which their eligibility is greatly reduced. Non-citizens who have worked for ten years and armed forces personnel and their dependents are eligible for all benefits. Finally, some emergency benefits?especially Medicaid?are provided to all non-citizens.​
A major provision of the 1996 legislation required that most legal immigrants have sponsors with incomes over 125 percent of the federal poverty line. The provision also required the income of sponsors to be deemed as available to the immigrants when calculating eligibility for welfare benefits, which usually has the effect of disqualifying them from benefits. The sponsor was also held liable for the costs of any welfare benefit used by the immigrant. The purpose of these requirements was to ensure that sponsors assume financial responsibility for newcomers, thereby reducing the potential burden on taxpayers.​
CATO may not like the safety net, but they did tweet this:

Overall, immigrants are less likely to consume welfare benefits and, when they do, they generally consume a lower dollar value of benefits than native-born Americans.​


I'm sure there may be some weird fringe ppl who scream about legal immigration, but they are extremely few and far between, we can agree to blow them off (I hope). I feel most would agree we could even up some legal immigration numbers.
In my opinion the problem comes down to people "gaming the system" (and this seems to be every dam law on the books). Example; "Fleeing Refugee".... OMG my neighbor has a confederate flag on his porch, I'm a refugee. Ok maybe I get a flagrant one for using that example but people are gaming this. EVERYONE who is in a country that doesn't have our success is a friggin refugee. Then compound that with the fact those refugee's show up with Obamma or Biden T shirts............ how the eff did 10's of thousands of destitute people, with cell phones, with signal, wearing joe bidens on their feet, travel thousands of miles, across oceans, to get to our border? How?
I've seen our enemy, we have a lot of executable people internal to our boarders, not to mention our "leaders".
 
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