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How government doesn’t work

CO. Hoosier

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Aug 29, 2001
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Ports of Long Beach and Los Angeles are huge bottlenecks. The reasons are obvious and have been building for months. California gig worker law essentially eliminated independent contractor truck drivers and owner-operator drivers from regular freight shippers and routes. Fewer trucks and drivers are available. Vaccine mandates have eliminated employees from any employer who does any unrelated government business. Unemployment compensation benefits trimmed the labor force in the transportation and warehousing industries. All of this is overlain by not only the busiest consumer goods time of the year, but the government deliberately pumping cash into the economy which stimulates even more demand.

Meanwhile we have a transportation secretary who spent his entire time in office focusing on green transportation, more transportation taxes, and fixing racist interstate highways.

Once the looming freight delivery crisis exploded in his face Buttigieg yammered about task forces and round table discussions and lamented how complicated his transportation job is. His and Biden’s solution? Run the ports 24/7. Still no truckers, still no warehouse workers, still no transportation workers.

What would Trump do?

1. Ask (demand) California suspend the gig economy rules for every employer in the transportation industry.
2. Suspend all employment related vaccine mandates in the transportation and warehousing industries.
3. Provide funds or other incentives to all employers in the transportation and warehousing industries to offer hiring bonuses.
 
Ports of Long Beach and Los Angeles are huge bottlenecks. The reasons are obvious and have been building for months. California gig worker law essentially eliminated independent contractor truck drivers and owner-operator drivers from regular freight shippers and routes. Fewer trucks and drivers are available. Vaccine mandates have eliminated employees from any employer who does any unrelated government business. Unemployment compensation benefits trimmed the labor force in the transportation and warehousing industries. All of this is overlain by not only the busiest consumer goods time of the year, but the government deliberately pumping cash into the economy which stimulates even more demand.

Meanwhile we have a transportation secretary who spent his entire time in office focusing on green transportation, more transportation taxes, and fixing racist interstate highways.

Once the looming freight delivery crisis exploded in his face Buttigieg yammered about task forces and round table discussions and lamented how complicated his transportation job is. His and Biden’s solution? Run the ports 24/7. Still no truckers, still no warehouse workers, still no transportation workers.

What would Trump do?

1. Ask (demand) California suspend the gig economy rules for every employer in the transportation industry.
2. Suspend all employment related vaccine mandates in the transportation and warehousing industries.
3. Provide funds or other incentives to all employers in the transportation and warehousing industries to offer hiring bonuses.
 
You know this has been going on for over a year now? The cost and lead time for ocean freight was increasing on a weekly basis about 14 months ago.
I get about three shipments a year, goes thru Long Beach. This has nothing to do w/ politics.
"This has nothing to do w/ politics." Depends on whether you consider labor shortages politics/policy
 
If the discussion is about truck driver shortages and specifically port related drayage drivers.... that's been a huge problem since even before Covid. It's really an infrastructure issue.... huge delays at both ports and the rail yards that can't handle the volume of container traffic have led a lot of drayage drivers to quit. They get paid per load, but often spend hours a day just waiting in lines, and many have found there are better ways to make money driving than that.

Things like vaccine mandates and gig worker law (which I believe is still mired in litigation) is a drop in the bucket.
 
The port fiasco started under Trump... i don't blame him as i don't blame Biden.
i'm talking about truckers and perhaps a dearth of warehouse workers contributing to it. i also understand pandemic buying surges certainly contributed.
 
The topic, i thought, was about ports, which have been difficult for awhile.
If it is about truckers, use XPO, if you use the regional carriers....well, good luck
 
Ports of Long Beach and Los Angeles are huge bottlenecks. The reasons are obvious and have been building for months. California gig worker law essentially eliminated independent contractor truck drivers and owner-operator drivers from regular freight shippers and routes. Fewer trucks and drivers are available. Vaccine mandates have eliminated employees from any employer who does any unrelated government business. Unemployment compensation benefits trimmed the labor force in the transportation and warehousing industries. All of this is overlain by not only the busiest consumer goods time of the year, but the government deliberately pumping cash into the economy which stimulates even more demand.

Meanwhile we have a transportation secretary who spent his entire time in office focusing on green transportation, more transportation taxes, and fixing racist interstate highways.

Once the looming freight delivery crisis exploded in his face Buttigieg yammered about task forces and round table discussions and lamented how complicated his transportation job is. His and Biden’s solution? Run the ports 24/7. Still no truckers, still no warehouse workers, still no transportation workers.

What would Trump do?

1. Ask (demand) California suspend the gig economy rules for every employer in the transportation industry.
2. Suspend all employment related vaccine mandates in the transportation and warehousing industries.
3. Provide funds or other incentives to all employers in the transportation and warehousing industries to offer hiring bonuses.
4. Suspend the requirement for CDL driver’s license. Then you could hire right off the street.
 
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If the discussion is about truck driver shortages and specifically port related drayage drivers.... that's been a huge problem since even before Covid. It's really an infrastructure issue.... huge delays at both ports and the rail yards that can't handle the volume of container traffic have led a lot of drayage drivers to quit. They get paid per load, but often spend hours a day just waiting in lines, and many have found there are better ways to make money driving than that.

Things like vaccine mandates and gig worker law (which I believe is still mired in litigation) is a drop in the bucket.
IC’s are paid by the load and waiting in lines is an issue.. But the solution is not to legislate them out of existence but to figure out ways adjust the compensation. Indeed the bottlenecks have multiple causes which government needs to address ion a system-wide basis, not just keeping ports unloading 24/7.

Yes, this problem existed for a while only to recently explode into a crisis. Makes ya wonder what our federal department of transportation does all day.
 
IC’s are paid by the load and waiting in lines is an issue.. But the solution is not to legislate them out of existence but to figure out ways adjust the compensation. Indeed the bottlenecks have multiple causes which government needs to address ion a system-wide basis, not just keeping ports unloading 24/7.

Yes, this problem existed for a while only to recently explode into a crisis. Makes ya wonder what our federal department of transportation does all day.


There is some serious root rot in the trucking industry. Particularly revolving around the southern ca port world. USA Today did a deep dive on this 4 years ago. Are we really surprised that people are running away from a system like this?

 
There is some serious root rot in the trucking industry. Particularly revolving around the southern ca port world. USA Today did a deep dive on this 4 years ago. Are we really surprised that people are running away from a system like this?

Truckers are heavily regulated with logbooks etc limiting I believe to 11 hours a day. They also have black boxes, most anyway. Surprised to read this as the liability potential for injuries from tired truckers is massive
 
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There is some serious root rot in the trucking industry. Particularly revolving around the southern ca port world. USA Today did a deep dive on this 4 years ago. Are we really surprised that people are running away from a system like this?

Horror stories and root rot exist in many industries and professions. Wanna talk about lawyering some time? Systemic root rot is one thing, the current crisis is a different thing. There are a number of creative things that can be done, but all I see from the government are solutions focused on not offending voting base, not on addressing the crisis.

Next up, the southern border.

On deck, education.

There is simply too much political ideology in government.
 
Horror stories and root rot exist in many industries and professions. Wanna talk about lawyering some time? Systemic root rot is one thing, the current crisis is a different thing. There are a number of creative things that can be done, but all I see from the government are solutions focused on not offending voting base, not on addressing the crisis.

Next up, the southern border.

On deck, education.

There is simply too much political ideology in government.
@Bulk VanderHuge You just got your syllabus!!!!
 
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Horror stories and root rot exist in many industries and professions. Wanna talk about lawyering some time? Systemic root rot is one thing, the current crisis is a different thing. There are a number of creative things that can be done, but all I see from the government are solutions focused on not offending voting base, not on addressing the crisis.

Next up, the southern border.

On deck, education.

There is simply too much political ideology in government.

Don't forget energy in there as well.
 
There is a bit more to the issue. American ports are older. Cargo ships are carrying more. Pre-pandemic cargo ships carried on average 4000 containers, now that number is 7000 containers. American ports are not designed for that amount of cargo on one ship and we are struggling. Asia is struggling but many Chinese ports are very new and are struggling less.


Biden has now required the port of LA to be open 24 hours a day, and Long Beach will soon follow. That sounds reasonable, does it not?

Also

Walmart, FedEx, UPS, Target, Samsung and The Home Depot committed to unloading during off-peak hours, making it easier for the Los Angeles port to operate nonstop. The Long Beach port has been operating 24 hours daily for seven days for roughly the past three weeks.​
Biden also held a virtual roundtable with the heads of Walmart, FedEx Logistics, UPS, Target, Samsung Electronics North America, the Teamsters Union and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, among other groups, before his speech.​

So it sounds like the stakeholders are talking and trying to get caught up, that sounds good to, right?

We have known for a long time there was going to be a truck driver shortage. I am NOT blaming Trump, but we've known this was coming through his presidency and now.

 
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There is a bit more to the issue. American ports are older. Cargo ships are carrying more. Pre-pandemic cargo ships carried on average 4000 containers, now that number is 7000 containers. American ports are not designed for that amount of cargo on one ship and we are struggling. Asia is struggling but many Chinese ports are very new and are struggling less.


Biden has now required the port of LA to be open 24 hours a day, and Long Beach will soon follow. That sounds reasonable, does it not?

Also

Walmart, FedEx, UPS, Target, Samsung and The Home Depot committed to unloading during off-peak hours, making it easier for the Los Angeles port to operate nonstop. The Long Beach port has been operating 24 hours daily for seven days for roughly the past three weeks.​
Biden also held a virtual roundtable with the heads of Walmart, FedEx Logistics, UPS, Target, Samsung Electronics North America, the Teamsters Union and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, among other groups, before his speech.​

So it sounds like the stakeholders are talking and trying to get caught up, that sounds good to, right?

We have known for a long time there was going to be a truck driver shortage. I am NOT blaming Trump, but we've known this was coming through his presidency and now.


labor shortages aren't a quick fix. as an aside i'm embarrassed to say that i didn't know jimmy hoffa's son is the head of the teamsters
 
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Sounds like the smears against the next potus are already beginning.

I assume I’ll get similar messages from my Repub reps in the coming weeks.
 

labor shortages aren't a quick fix. as an aside i'm embarrassed to say that i didn't know jimmy hoffa's son is the head of the teamsters

Right, there are two problems. One, we are importing so much that the ports physically cannot handle it. The other problem is the driver shortage. We can't solve that quickly. It takes a while to hire and train.

I am sure that there is blame on the administration. But some of this problem goes way beyond this administration. The driver shortage has been talked about for years. American appetite for imported goods has been talked about for years.
 
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Right, there are two problems. One, we are importing so much that the ports physically cannot handle it. The other problem is the driver shortage. We can't solve that quickly. It takes a while to hire and train.

I am sure that there is blame on the administration. But some of this problem goes way beyond this administration. The driver shortage has been talked about for years. American appetite for imported goods has been talked about for years.
You can’t hire and train drivers if nobody wants to be trained or drive. We’ve been diminishing the importance of long hours and work in favor of college and leisure for years. Maybe the chickens are coming home to roost. Instead of talking about diversity, inclusion, and equity in traditional elite and mostly white professions, we ought to be talking up blue collar work. I know several college educated males who work in the trades and labor intensive occupations and they love it.
 
You can’t hire and train drivers if nobody wants to be trained or drive. We’ve been diminishing the importance of long hours and work in favor of college and leisure for years. Maybe the chickens are coming home to roost. Instead of talking about diversity, inclusion, and equity in traditional elite and mostly white professions, we ought to be talking up blue collar work. I know several college educated males who work in the trades and labor intensive occupations and they love it.
Or as Noodle's post implied there were serious structural problems in trucking. Here is from another:

There are lots of potential drivers interested in becoming career truck drivers, but once many of them discover:​
  • the low pay
  • the lack of respect
  • the often poor working conditions
  • and the demands of the job
they abandon the idea.​
When they feel underappreciated and underpaid, truck drivers currently in the industry, are leaving their jobs to look for something that offers better pay, benefits and working conditions.​

Look at the article, truckers are paid by the mile. That assumes a "normal" time. Road construction, weather, accidents can result in a whole lot of unpaid time. Technology has made keeping dual books much harder (stopping for diesel is easily tracked). That makes it harder to make up time.

That is a long way of saying "diversity, equity, and inclusion" is so far down the damn list of problems that one needs a telescope to find it.

Here is another article on why people start trucking and quit. Inclusion seems to be missing:

 
Or as Noodle's post implied there were serious structural problems in trucking. Here is from another:

There are lots of potential drivers interested in becoming career truck drivers, but once many of them discover:​
  • the low pay
  • the lack of respect
  • the often poor working conditions
  • and the demands of the job
they abandon the idea.​
When they feel underappreciated and underpaid, truck drivers currently in the industry, are leaving their jobs to look for something that offers better pay, benefits and working conditions.​

Look at the article, truckers are paid by the mile. That assumes a "normal" time. Road construction, weather, accidents can result in a whole lot of unpaid time. Technology has made keeping dual books much harder (stopping for diesel is easily tracked). That makes it harder to make up time.

That is a long way of saying "diversity, equity, and inclusion" is so far down the damn list of problems that one needs a telescope to find it.

Here is another article on why people start trucking and quit. Inclusion seems to be missing:

Ha. Trucking companies must be well aware of those complaints, I hear recruiting ads often on satellite radio that speaks to almost all those points.

I think some dry box haulers operate on a high turnover low pay business model. That is probably the sector we are talking about at the ports. On the other hand, I used to do some work for a local trucking guy. He got fed up with all the small business BS and went to work driving for Walmart. Loves it.
 
You can’t make this stuff up.

.Buttigieg’s office told West Wing Playbook that the secretary has actually been on paid leave since mid-August to spend time with his husband, Chasten, and their two newborn babies.​

Our transportation system is in chaos, the serfs are suffering and the feudal lord cabinet secretary in charge of transportation takes leave? And people really wonder why populism rises?
 
You can’t make this stuff up.

.Buttigieg’s office told West Wing Playbook that the secretary has actually been on paid leave since mid-August to spend time with his husband, Chasten, and their two newborn babies.​

Our transportation system is in chaos, the serfs are suffering and the feudal lord cabinet secretary in charge of transportation takes leave? And people really wonder why populism rises?
There's no way that's true
 

Don't forget energy in there as well.
Yep. Had my home propane tank filled today. Ouch. $775 - two years ago it was right at $500 for the same amount.
 

labor shortages aren't a quick fix. as an aside i'm embarrassed to say that i didn't know jimmy hoffa's son is the head of the teamsters
This is why I'm a "cash and gift cards" kind of guy when it comes to Christmas. Let 'em wait for their own shit instead of me explaining why the presents aren't here yet. Well, that and the fact that Christmas shopping makes me homicidal. I don't want the kids and grandkids to have to visit me on death row.
 
Or as Noodle's post implied there were serious structural problems in trucking. Here is from another:

There are lots of potential drivers interested in becoming career truck drivers, but once many of them discover:​
  • the low pay
  • the lack of respect
  • the often poor working conditions
  • and the demands of the job
they abandon the idea.​
When they feel underappreciated and underpaid, truck drivers currently in the industry, are leaving their jobs to look for something that offers better pay, benefits and working conditions.​

Look at the article, truckers are paid by the mile. That assumes a "normal" time. Road construction, weather, accidents can result in a whole lot of unpaid time. Technology has made keeping dual books much harder (stopping for diesel is easily tracked). That makes it harder to make up time.

That is a long way of saying "diversity, equity, and inclusion" is so far down the damn list of problems that one needs a telescope to find it.

Here is another article on why people start trucking and quit. Inclusion seems to be missing:

My post? I haven't posted in this thread yet. :)

I did hear on a trucker podcast this morning that there is a huge demand for drivers right now, and the price of used trucks is skyhigh - many are worth more than their current owner paid for them. There also continues to be a big shortage of overnight rest spots in public and private facilities, and other safe parking facilities: https://www.overdriveonline.com/reg...ansion-left-out-of-budget-reconciliation-bill

Here's a good article on the current transportation issues from a trucker's perspective: https://www.overdriveonline.com/bus...-haulers-fight-off-a-system-collapse-at-ports

Don't ask me why I follow some of this stuff or listen to trucker podcasts, etc. I guess I'm a child of the 70s and remember talking to truckers on the CB, etc.
 
Ha. Trucking companies must be well aware of those complaints, I hear recruiting ads often on satellite radio that speaks to almost all those points.

I think some dry box haulers operate on a high turnover low pay business model. That is probably the sector we are talking about at the ports. On the other hand, I used to do some work for a local trucking guy. He got fed up with all the small business BS and went to work driving for Walmart. Loves it.

Driving for Wal-Mart full time is one of the better trucking jobs available. Knew some friends dads that had this gig decades ago, and it was about as good as it gets for being a trucker. But Walmart is the exception.... most trucking is not as predictable as those runs.
 
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Driving for Wal-Mart full time is one of the better trucking jobs available. Knew some friends dads that had this gig decades ago, and it was about as good as it gets for being a trucker.
My cousin hauls calves from Indiana to Texas to feed out and then brings milk cows back to that big dairy farm on I65 up north of Brookston.

He buys a new truck every 3 years or so and is grossing around $5k a week for one round trip run (he makes it each way without stopping to rest and he keeps 2 books). It's lucrative but he has no life and no wife and kids.

Another guy I know hauls hogs locally and is home most nights. He does very well also.

The key is getting in with someone who needs their goods shipped and doesn't want to deal with a trucking company. They take up a lot of overhead.
 
My post? I haven't posted in this thread yet. :)

I did hear on a trucker podcast this morning that there is a huge demand for drivers right now, and the price of used trucks is skyhigh - many are worth more than their current owner paid for them. There also continues to be a big shortage of overnight rest spots in public and private facilities, and other safe parking facilities: https://www.overdriveonline.com/reg...ansion-left-out-of-budget-reconciliation-bill

Here's a good article on the current transportation issues from a trucker's perspective: https://www.overdriveonline.com/bus...-haulers-fight-off-a-system-collapse-at-ports

Don't ask me why I follow some of this stuff or listen to trucker podcasts, etc. I guess I'm a child of the 70s and remember talking to truckers on the CB, etc.

My dad was into CBs, I too talked to truckers and anyone else.

We do have another thread on the exact same thing you commented on with the old USAToday article.

Not mentioned so far that I have seen, we could activate some guard units for a month to help catch up .

A strange thing I never knew about, a 1906 law prevents the US from using state of the art dredging equipment. Many ports desperately need dredged and we cannot do it.

 
Driving for Wal-Mart full time is one of the better trucking jobs available. Knew some friends dads that had this gig decades ago, and it was about as good as it gets for being a trucker. But Walmart is the exception.... most trucking is not as predictable as those runs.
The guy who purchased my house 4 years ago drives for Old Dominion. Three kids and his wife is a stay-home mom. Young guy, and he managed a purchase of 200k as a single-income household so I can't imagine he's working for next to nothing..
 
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The guy who purchased my house 4 years ago drives for Old Dominion. Three kids and his wife is a stay-home mom. Young guy, and he managed a purchase of 200k as a single-income household so I can't imagine he's working for next to nothing..
Energy costs x 2 will cause cost side pressure plus demand side labor pressures=LA and Long Beach back ups… it’s a marginal cost decision playing out on a microlevel with macro level impacts. Energy costs are the devil and
the saint…the problem and the solution.
 
Energy costs x 2 will cause cost side pressure plus demand side labor pressures=LA and Long Beach back ups… it’s a marginal cost decision playing out on a microlevel with macro level impacts. Energy costs are the devil and
the saint…the problem and the solution.
Something else that gets lost in the oil/gasoline debate is the influence of storage capacity reduction that resulted from the mass mergers of oil companies a couple of decades ago. I forget the specific numbers, but we hold a far lower amount of refined gasoline in US storage facilities than we used to. When the big boys merged and bought out all of the little guys, one of their first cost-cutting/savings moves to recover those merger expenses was to shutter a large number of the storage facilities owned by the vanquished. It seems to me that the current storage capacity is around three weeks supply, compared to six months supply back in the day. That compromises our ability to offset spikes in demand or shortages in supply (hurricanes, political crises from exporting countries, pipeline shutdowns, refinery fires, switching seasonal blends, etc.). It means price hikes of 30cents per gallon when there are either demand or supply imbalances rather than hikes of 3 cents. Mostly to discourage consumers from continuint to purchase at previous levels, protecting against critical shortages.

Deregulation is always a mixed bag.
 
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