Roster Construction 2019 - 2021
- Thread starter MikeHoncho69
- Start date
Blew what?
I just posted earlier this afternoon on the roster difference between IU and Michigan State - talent-wise (no comparison), experience (no comparison) and injuries (Sparty lost 43 player games to injury; Indiana lost 90 - more than DOUBLE the amount).
You still want to call it an excuse? Fine - who is the team (this past season or any other season) with the same roster makeup that IU had this past season with injuries to the extent that IU had?
Or do YOU not know what you’re talking about? If I’m so wrong about this, please enlighten us all on this said team that overcame everything IU dealt with this past year and made the NCAA tournament. I’ll wait . . .
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After the recruiting and injury healing is complete. Play the best 5 players at their respective positions. Any returning player that is not in the starting 5 will have to accept their role on the team. And play to their strengths and not their weaknesses to help the team win games.
None of us know that. At best he’s our 4th or 5th best player. At best. Langford was MSU’s 2nd best.
Here is the breakdown on injuries:
Michigan State
Player Games Missed to Injury
Cassius Winston 0
Nick Ward 5 (late in B1G RS - hand)
Xavier Tillman 0
Matt McQuaid 3 (ankle)
Kenny Goins 0
Aaron Henry 0
Joshua Langford 26 (1/2 season - foot)
Kyle Ahrens 9 (last 5 after BTT injury - ankle)
Gabe Brown 0
Foster Loyer 0
Thomas Kithier 0
Marcus Bingham Jr. 0
Jack Hoiberg (W) 0
Braden Burke (W) 0
Conner George 0
Brock Washington (W) 0
Indiana
Player Games Missed to Injury
Romeo Langford 3 (played w/ Torn Ligament after Duke)
Juwan Morgan 0
Justin Smith 0
Aljami Durham 1 (Foot)
Devonte Green 7 (Thigh bruise/suspension)
Rob Phinisee 3 (Concussion)
De'Ron Davis 5 (ankle / achilles)
Evan Fitzner 0
Damezi Anderson 0
Jake Forrester 2 (ankle)
Zach McRoberts 9 (back/foot)
Clifton Moore 0
Vijay Blackmon (W) 0
Race Thompson 25 (Concussion / groin/virus)
Johnny Jager (W) 0
Quentin Taylor (W) 0
Jerome Hunter 35 (Entire Season)
You call that the same? Really?
Davis played a total of 15 minutes in 2019 up to the game at East Lansing. Think having him fully healthy might have allowed Juwan to not have to play the post? Think Davis might have made a difference at Maryland when Morgan got in foul trouble with us up 14?
Even with all of that, the injury that hurt this team the most was Phinisee, which is documented pretty well in this article.
From the article:
"The Lafayette native would miss more than three weeks, but you weren’t wrong if it seemed like even longer than that before he was fully back to his old self.
Beyond Miller suggesting the “Old Rob” had not fully returned until recently, Phinisee himself revealed some of the challenges he had to contend with. He told Don Fischer this on the January 28th edition of his radio show when asked whether the concussion set him back —
“Yeah, it did actually,” Phinisee said. “It’s annoying not remembering everything like you usually do and concentrating. Just getting back in rhythm, it really set me back.”
Phinisee went on to say that it wasn’t until late January that he even felt normal. That’s not basketball normal. That’s just functioning normal."
and
"Miller seemed to indicate that it wasn’t until the February 19th game against Purdue that his freshman point was 100 percent physically back."
And this:
"Indiana is 11-4 with a fully healthy Rob Phinisee, and 4-10 without him. They are 4-2 in the Big Ten with him, 2-10 without him.
That’s including that game at Iowa — that Phinisee didn’t even finish."
Is Archie ultimately the answer? Maybe, maybe not.
But if you objectively look at how the season played out, you understand WHY this team struggled. Only someone with an agenda such as yourself can make the comments you make.
Indiana has never had more missed games due to injury than this past season. Prove me wrong.
Michigan State had the most talent in the Big Ten without any question at all. Final Four is a great result, and yes, Langford was having a great year, but they were loaded. IU was not close talent-wise. That is a fact.
Just the same as you don't know if Hunter would have been better than 4th or 5th. It should be without question he would have been a major contributor, likely starter.
Think MSU having experienced players helped cushion the loss of Langford? Think having a guy like Winston - the conference's best player - made a HUGE difference? Who led the conference in assists (7.9/gm - more than 1.5 per game better than 2nd place)?
Izzo has been at Michigan St since 1995-96, has developed a culture of how they play. Archie has been at IU all of two seasons, took over a program that is as diametrically opposite to what he runs as you can get - yet you expect them to match Izzo?
There is a possibility that Hunter is IU's leading scorer next season.
This season he would have been in the top 3.
Where in my post or any of my posts did I make excuses about IU not making the tourney?
The discussion was the roster comparisons between IU and MSU. Try to keep up.
The haterz are like that - when they can’t provide anything to support their position, they try to move the goalposts. Or, like fpeaugh, try to insist guys “are 4 star recruits” that are rated by a scouting service that will have the 138th-rated guy as a 4 star. The same one that ranked Durham as a 3-star - and he was the 230th player.
Yes, those are very similar. Would you rather lose Langford for the year or a guy like Thompson/Hunter? There’s absolutely no comparison in talent there.
No one else missed more than 5 games besides McBob who rarely played anyway. Then you quote articles making excuses for IU but none for MSU? As if they don’t exist? Or maybe it’s just your bias and you’re searching for an excuse. Injuries were far from our problem.
Neither one of those are facts. They’re delusions you’ve created to feel better about yourself.
There’s a possibility Anderson is too. Probably equal odds.
Hunter has now become the guy this board overhypes because he’s an unknown. You people will put unrealistic expectations on him to make yourself feel better and then attack and criticize him for not living up to them. It’s just an annual revolving door.
ohhh ok. so you're not making excuses why iu didn't make the tourney - now I understand
AT what university are you allowed to major in stupid?
BTW, congrats on the Summa Cum Laude.
Stupidbear! Where have you been? Feepaw is trying to take your "dumbest poster of the year" title away from you.ohhh ok. so you're not making excuses why iu didn't make the tourney - now I understand
Did you ever happen to think they started the most games BECAUSE of the injuries?
Hunter misses all 35 games, Race misses 26, McBob misses 9 and plays thru injuries in many others, Rob misses 3, Davis misses 5, Green misses 7 (some due to suspension), Romeo misses 3 and add the ligament issue, Al misses a game.
That is 89 games missed by guys that most would have put in the top 10 of our rotation. Not counting other games that were played while hurt and limited productivity. Every projected rotation person missed games except Morgan and Smith. I know Fitz did not play in 4 games, but not sure which were injuries and which were just DNPs. Again only 2 of projected top 11 played every game (and Morgan left the MSU game after about 8 minutes) so in reality we had one of the projected top 11 available all game every game.
Yes. Hunter had a good chance of starting. He also could have had a season like Anderson. None of us know. Race wasn't going to start and he struggled to get minutes when he was healthy at the end of the year. I think he will also struggle to get minutes the year and will end up behind Smith, TJD, Brunk, and Davis. I didn't consider him or McBob as significant losses. Either way, my point was other teams did have significant injuries, like IU, and their season's didn't go to sh#t.
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If you're going to make a statement like that, back it up. Please show us where any team that made the NCAAs had 90 games missed by rotation players.
Go back and read my post. I specifically stated significant injuries. I consider having injuries to 3 of your starters as significant (“rape u” also lost another role player). There is a difference between losing all conference starters and two role players that may or may not get minutes. 69 of the 89 games missed were from our 9th and 10th best players and a true freshmen who has not played college basketball (assuming iubirdman's numbers are correct).
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YDS
Give you plenty of facts - yet you want to ignore them.
Izzo has been there almost 25 years, has an established culture, had numerous veterans . . . yet your dumb ass thinks we’re comparable.
How many times this past year did MSU barely have enough healthy guys for practice? Just how do you think guys get better - by just playing in games? Then again, you don’t think concussions are a big deal, either . , .
Go back and read my post. Show proof if you're going to make a claim. Additionally, all of those games missed were from players who were expected to contribute throughout the season. Hunter had half of those 69 you mentioned. He was expected to contribute quite a bit to this team. On top of that, not having them available for practice meant the other players couldn't go five-on-five.
ohhh ok. so you're not making excuses why iu didn't make the tourney - now I understand
Please quote my posts that make excuses.
I will wait.
This is the most important aspect that people so easily discount.
If you’ve ever played or been around the game you know that guys only get better through the off-season or practice. Just “playing games” doesn’t cut it.
I did provide proof to back up my claim. MSU had 3 starters and a role player injured(I stated that in my previous post). That is a significant amount of injuries.
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Are you really trying to make the claim that players don't get better by playing actual basketball games?
Yeah, I guess I could have worded that better.
Point is true, though - without meaningful practice time player development is significantly impacted. Yeah, game experience counts, too. But throwing guys out there without preparation is a recipe for failure.
“Scorer” does not mean “shooter”. Our best scorers had 29.7 and 27.2 3PT%, not staggering.
As a comparison - here are both Rivals and 247 Scout ranking (stars) for both teams
Michigan State
Player Rivals (# stars) 247/Scout (# stars)
Cassius Winston 29 (4) 31 (4)
Nick Ward 41 (4) 42 (4)
Xavier Tillman 86 (4) 112 (4)
Matt McQuaid 84 (4) 71 (4)
Kenny Goins NR (0) NR (0)
Aaron Henry 115 (4) 141 (3)
Joshua Langford 20 (5) 19 (5)
Kyle Ahrens NR (3) 166 (3)
Gabe Brown 101 (4) 101 (4)
Foster Loyer 65 (4) 96 (4)
Thomas Kithier 113 (4) 162 (3)
Marcus Bingham Jr. 61 (4) 66 (4)
Jack Hoiberg (W) NR (0) NR (0)
Braden Burke (W) NR (0) NR (0)
Conner George NR (0) NR (0)
Brock Washington (W) NR (0) NR (0)
Indiana
Player Rivals (# stars) 247/Scout (# stars)
Romeo Langford 6 (5) 7 (5)
Juwan Morgan 109 (3) 117 (4)
Justin Smith 119 (4) 78 (4)
Aljami Durham NR (3) 230 (3)
Devonte Green NR (3) 197 (3)
Rob Phinisee 103 (4) 136 (4)
De'Ron Davis 35 (4) 40 (4)
Evan Fitzner NR (3) 290 (3)
Damezi Anderson 118 (4) 125 (4)
Jake Forrester 131 (4) 148 (3)
Zach McRoberts NR (0) NR (0)
Clifton Moore 113 (4) 151 (3)
Vijay Blackmon (W) NR (0) NR (0)
Race Thompson NR (3) 134 (4)
Johnny Jager (W) NR (0) NR (0)
Quentin Taylor (W) NR (0) NR (0)
Jerome Hunter 52 (4) 59 (4)
Now do you all understand why RSCI is the gold standard? RSCI stands for Recruiting Service CONSENSUS Index - which takes ALL the various "rankings" and develops a true consensus of a player's abilities. Also, note just how high-ranked some of the 3 & 4 stars kids are. So to say "we have six 4-Stars, they have 7 - so we're comparable" can be a distortion of what reality is.
TD. Thank you for that link. It seems it is more of a statistical analysis of different ranking lists and not the result of negotiating an agreement of who should be ranked in descending order.
Consensus: a generally accepted opinion or decision among a group of people:
The general consensus in the office is that he can't do his job.
Could we reach a consensus on this matter? Let's take a vote.
Consensus: a generally accepted opinion or decision among a group of people:
The general consensus in the office is that he can't do his job.
Could we reach a consensus on this matter? Let's take a vote.
So what you’re telling me is Archie just sent off/lost two of IU’s highest rated 6’10 recruits off a no-tourney team - in Moore and Forrester????
And thats a good coach taking IU on an upward trajectory? A coach w currently no replacement for those 2 scholarships?
