Roster Construction 2019 - 2021
- Thread starter MikeHoncho69
- Start date
Your post said nothing about coaching.
I said we had similar talent.
We just don’t have a coach.
Checkmate.
We don’t have similar talent - and especially in terms of experience. Not even close.
@T.M.P. you boy CDK is at it again.
I'm getting very worried about the roster we have no shooters we need a big Davis is always hurt.
While I agree with the premise that MSU had more talent than IU, the fact that you beat them twice may indicate the talent gap is smaller than many would believe.
I think the raw talent is there at IU to compete, but (1) the kids must learn to play as a team, and (2) the key players on the team must gain more experience. They are still too young a team to meet most fans expectations - even next year. The year after (2020 season) may be when this group of kids begins to excel. I don't know if the fan base will have enough patience with Archie to get there.
More I thought about this, the more I had to disagree.
I had said this before the season started:
How good this team will be boils down to one key factor - point guard play.
DG, RP or AD provide sound, solid play - we have a chance to win the B1G
One of those 3 (or someone else) provides exceptional performance - we have a chance to go very deep in NCAA Tournament, perhaps FF.
No one steps up? God forbid . . .
And Phin stepped up - not spectacular, but solid.
Here is his defensive efforts prior to the concussion:
Player / FG / (3pt FG)
Markus Howard / 6-14 / (1-5)
Isaiah Joe / 5-15 / (3--11)
Trey Jones / 6-10 / (0-2)
Ryan Taylor / 4-11 / (1-5)
Rasir Bolton / 6-14 / (2-5)
Christen Cunningham / 5-10 / (4-6)
Kamar Baldwin / 7-19 / (1-3)
And that was from a freshman.
I said this after the Marquette game:
You even seemed to agree:
Hell, even @fpeaugh though he was damn good:
So you lose a guy to a concussion during the most critcial portion of the season and it doesn't play a big part of WHY you struggled?
Hey, if you still wanna disagree with me, that's cool. But Rob's injury more than ANYTHING kept us out of the NCAA. Just from a defensive standpoint it killed us in the packline.
Said we had similar talent?
Let's go back to that start of this whole conversation, shall we?
I said this about Archie's evaluation of Fitzner:
You reply with this:
I replied:
You answered:
I responded to another person in the conversation:
You replied:
Checkmate?
I even gave you an opportunity to reel yourself back in:
You said:
I AGAIN gave you an opportunity at an out:
"in terms of" - I was EXPLICIT in what was being compared. You answered:
Then I posted not only the RSCI rankings for players on both teams, but their year of experience. Roster Construction 2019 - 2021
You replied:
"7 4 star recruits" - that is so rich.
I had posted the RSCI results for both rosters - but you want to claim IU has "7 4-Star recruits". You have to go thru 247/Scout to get rankings to fit your narrative, and I already explained to @ORG about the fallacies involved with some of the recruiting services. Roster Construction 2019 - 2021
I'll play along JUST to show you - and everyone else - just how screwed up your logic is. I had posted before the 247/Scout rankings. Here is an extrapolation of those rankings as if they were being graded by the RSCI rating system for how well teams do on recruiting.
The difference here - and it will clarify the disparity between the talent of Michigan State and Indiana - is that the numbering system will be dependent on how many players were ranked ever year (instead of the #1-ranked player being worth 100, he'd be worth the value of the number of players listed in the rankings for each year. That way, we can take your recruiting service and show the discrepancy on the 4 star players IU has vs the ones for Michigan State.
Here are the number of players ranked each season:
2015 248
2016 247
2017 249
2018 247
So, for example, the #1 player in 2015 would be worth 248 point; the 248th player only 1 point, and so on for each year. If a player wasn't ranked, they won't receive less than 1 point. then we can total all the players points, divide by the number of players and get an aggregate score for each team:
Michigan State
Player 247/Scout rating
Cassius Winston 31 (4) 219
Nick Ward 42 (4) 204
Xavier Tillman 112 (4) 138
Matt McQuaid 71 (4) 178
Kenny Goins NR (0) 1
Aaron Henry 141 (3) 107
Joshua Langford 19 (5) 228
Kyle Ahrens 166 (3) 83
Gabe Brown 101 (4) 147
Foster Loyer 96 (4) 171
Thomas Kithier 162 (3) 86
Marcus Bingham Jr. 66 (4) 186
Jack Hoiberg (W) NR (0) 1
Braden Burke (W) NR (0) 1
Conner George NR (0) 1
Brock Washington (W) NR (0) 1
Mean value - 109.5
Indiana
Player 247/Scout rating
Romeo Langford 7 (5) 243
Juwan Morgan 117 (4) 132
Justin Smith 78 (4) 172
Aljami Durham 230 (3) 20
Devonte Green 197 (3) 51
Rob Phinisee 136 (4) 112
De'Ron Davis 40 (4) 208
Evan Fitzner 290 (3) 1
Damezi Anderson 125 (4) 123
Jake Forrester 148 (3) 100
Zach McRoberts (W) NR (0) 1
Clifton Moore 151 (3) 99
Vijay Blackmon (W) NR (0) 1
Race Thompson 134 (4) 116
Johnny Jager (W) NR (0) 1
Quentin Taylor (W) NR (0) 1
Jerome Hunter 59 (4) 191
Mean value - 92.5
You still want to claim their 4 stars are "similar" to ours?
Oh, we haven't added another crucial aspect here: Experience.
Remember this:
Again, I was EXPLICIT in that there was a difference between both roster in not only talent, but EXPERIENCE, also.
So let's take our numbers from before and multiply by years in experience. This will give us an RSCI-like value on experienced talent:
Michigan State
Player 247/Scout rating / overall rating w/ experience
Cassius Winston 31 (4) 219 657
Nick Ward 42 (4) 204 612
Xavier Tillman 112 (4) 138 276
Matt McQuaid 71 (4) 178 712
Kenny Goins NR (0) 1 5
Aaron Henry 141 (3) 107 107
Joshua Langford 19 (5) 228 684
Kyle Ahrens 166 (3) 83 332
Gabe Brown 101 (4) 147 147
Foster Loyer 96 (4) 171 171
Thomas Kithier 162 (3) 86 86
Marcus Bingham Jr. 66 (4) 186 186
Jack Hoiberg (W) NR (0) 1 2
Braden Burke (W) NR (0) 1 3
Conner George NR (0) 1 4
Brock Washington (W) NR (0) 1 2
Mean value - 109.5 / 249.125
Indiana
Player 247/Scout rating / overall rating w/ experience
Romeo Langford 7 (5) 243 243
Juwan Morgan 117 (4) 132 528
Justin Smith 78 (4) 172 344
Aljami Durham 230 (3) 20 40
Devonte Green 197 (3) 51 153
Rob Phinisee 136 (4) 112 112
De'Ron Davis 40 (4) 208 624
Evan Fitzner 290 (3) 1 5
Damezi Anderson 125 (4) 123 123
Jake Forrester 148 (3) 100 100
Zach McRoberts (W) NR (0) 1 5
Clifton Moore 151 (3) 99 198
Vijay Blackmon (W) NR (0) 1 3
Race Thompson 134 (4) 116 232
Johnny Jager (W) NR (0) 1 4
Quentin Taylor (W) NR (0) 1 4
Jerome Hunter 59 (4) 191 191
Mean value - 92.5 / 171.11
So in comparing the two rosters, the aggregate average of a Michigan State player is 249.125, yet an Indiana aggregate average is only 171.11 - yet you want to call them "similar"?
Does being a dumb shit come naturally? Or is it something you put considerable effort into every day?
Rob missed 3 games. We went 2-1 during that couple weeks. He was definitely back for the 1-12 run.
You’re going to need to keep searching for excuses because this was probably your worst fail yet.
I don’t know what kind of BS garbage rating system you’re using but to prove it’s flaw it shows 4 MSU players above Morgan. Everyone who lives in the real world know that’s complete and total BS. And it just destroys any argument you tried to make.
Get back to the basics kid. You’re struggling here.
Again, does being a dumb shit come naturally to you? It sure appears so.
Taz, You are putting a LOT of time and effort in to replying to one of the boards
He is not struggling AT ALL. He is backing up his assertions with verifiable numbers while you are just giving your BS opinion backed up by NOTHING.
You don't like his rating system, fine, then PROVE your point with whatever rating system/numbers you want.
BUT we all KNOW you won't because you are full of sh##.
Let me played clairvoyant,
fpeaugh "I don't need any rating system to tell me that MSU didn't have four players better than Morgan".
He is not struggling AT ALL. He is backing up his assertions with verifiable numbers while you are just giving your BS opinion backed up by NOTHING.
You don't like his rating system, fine, then PROVE your point with whatever rating system/numbers you want.
BUT we all KNOW you won't because you are full of sh##.
Let me played clairvoyant,
fpeaugh "I don't need any rating system to tell me that MSU didn't have four players better than Morgan".
Al you might want to take a break from the guarantees for awhile. They haven’t been working out well for you. Last year was a train wreck for your credibility.Taz, You are putting a LOT of time and effort in to replying to one of the boards
He is not struggling AT ALL. He is backing up his assertions with verifiable numbers while you are just giving your BS opinion backed up by NOTHING.
You don't like his rating system, fine, then PROVE your point with whatever rating system/numbers you want.
BUT we all KNOW you won't because you are full of sh##.
Let me played clairvoyant,
fpeaugh "I don't need any rating system to tell me that MSU didn't have four players better than Morgan".
Taz, You are putting a LOT of time and effort in to replying to one of the boards
He is not struggling AT ALL. He is backing up his assertions with verifiable numbers while you are just giving your BS opinion backed up by NOTHING.
You don't like his rating system, fine, then PROVE your point with whatever rating system/numbers you want.
BUT we all KNOW you won't because you are full of sh##.
Let me played clairvoyant,
fpeaugh "I don't need any rating system to tell me that MSU didn't have four players better than Morgan".
Here’s the killer: he says that Morgan is better than that rating system HE chose to indicate how many “4 stars” IU has.
Morgan didn’t arrive at IU with any high regards, right? Even after two years he was a role player while his classmates - OG and Thomas - both went into the NBA Draft.
Yet Morgan remained behind - yet, here 2 years later, he’s considered a really good player?
I’m sure he did it all on his own. COACHING had absolutely NOTHING to do with him becoming a great player.
Only the logic of CDK could route down that path . . .
Yet he still lives in your head as you obsessively work to justify why IU lost 12 of 13 games in the heart of the Big 10 season, and then twice beat the team you said is much more talented than IU. You’re trying to have it both ways while also not admitting that you made ridiculous predictions about winning the conference and going to the Final Four. You got this wrong. Miles wrong. Just admit it and stop cluttering the board with your ignorant garbage. The only DK is you.Here’s the killer: he says that Morgan is better than that rating system HE chose to indicate how many “4 stars” IU has.
Morgan didn’t arrive at IU with any high regards, right? Even after two years he was a role player while his classmates - OG and Thomas - both went into the NBA Draft.
Yet Morgan remained behind - yet, here 2 years later, he’s considered a really good player?
I’m sure he did it all on his own. COACHING had absolutely NOTHING to do with him becoming a great player.
Only the logic of CDK could route down that path . . .
Edited post.
My credibility has NOTHING to do with the fact that you will not give anything to support your position. Is your position that weak that you can't find any source to back it up?
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I’ve already provided that we had more 4 and 5 star recruits than 10-15 schools in the tournament. That’s a fact. But Archie is completely lost on how to coach and develop them.
So today it’s IU lacks experience and talent but at the start of the year they were going to win the conference and maybe go to the final four. That’s why Fpeaugh keeps treating you like a beach ball. You were wrong. Way wrong. Stop making excuses.
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Ok big boy - how about those? Or are you gonna try to compare the teams from the automatic qualifiers for the small/mid majors?
Will you give us some more guarantees please?
Undefeated at home?
Big Ten champs?
Final Four?
Archie National COY?
Sound familiar?
I disagree with you on recruiting results. IU has a 5 star Mc AA, a solid 4 year contributor in AF ( he is going to be solid at IU) and a 4 star veteran center with the available schollies at the time. i like this class. Surely you are old enough to not require immediate gratification. Let Archie build a program. When he does, at least acknowledge it. IU makes the show next year, and for many years after that.
Wrong - again.
Just in the ACC, Big 12, Big 10 & SEC alone you had 28 bids.
Keep working. Link the recruiting on at least 15 of those 28. You’ve already been provided Michigan State, so you can forget them.
BTW - don’t forget to link the team’s injuries as well. That was the discussion, remember? Or are you going to attempt to move the goalposts once again?
This is a forum! None of us has any credibility.
Donovan in Bloomington and a done deal to IU?
Miller a great hire?
Getting rid of Miller in the works?
Sound familiar?
You're not one who should be calling anyone out about guarantees or credibility.
Your still haven’t goggled what the f******* word ‘guarantee’ means, have you?
Not too surprising you spend more time here than with human friends...
I know exactly what it means. And I remember all the ones you made that turned out false.
