Robert Kennedy Jr.

[mcmurtry66]

$4.6 billion since 1988, with nearly $1 billion ($903 million) for injuries from prior to 1988. And, it's for injury claims arising from nearly 20 different types of vaccines, each having multiple manufacturers. You can't compare that to one product or even class of product.

In comparison, the Sacklers (Purdue Pharma) agreed to payments in excess of $6 billion just to the states (i.e., not including individual damage awards and payments to the feds).

yeah but we don't really know because the ability for juries to determine damages was cut off. i think the most salient argument is just the volume of people who have received vaccines vs the number of claimants. their safety is overwhelmingly evident - that said a fund had to be created to mitigate/control damages and with a kennedy making the claims he is the public is deserving of fair debate imo.

 

[Noodle]

And the trade-off for less money damages is an easier burden of proof. Nothing you posted negates Noodle's post.

Let's also not forget that vaccines do cause injuries (and even deaths).

 

[Sope Creek]

The problem is that people are usually pretty willing to shut up and trust the experts as long as they continue see and feel the benefits of those scientific improvements in their day to day lives.

But when the experts blow up their credibility and make peoples lives worse with half-truths and false hoods.

Then yes, they must come down from the mountain top and debate. It’s not asking a lot.

"When the experts blow up their credibility . . . ."

Did they?

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

The compensation program is for all vaccine injury claims. It was not established only for autism. They no longer pay for claims of vaccine-caused autism. I think that's been the the case since ~2010.

And yes, Kennedy still holds the debunked claims of a link between vaccines and autism. He made the claim yet again on Rogan's show! Of course, since mercury was removed from childhood vaccines starting ~2001 (except for one type of flu vaccine), he's moved on to suggesting that aluminum in vaccines might be the culprit, or “There’s lots of other toxics in the vaccines that, you know, could be responsible." Hell, he's even claimed that WiFi might be causing autism. “I think it degrades your mitochondria and it opens your blood-brain barrier.” It's all complete rubbish.

Physicians for Safe Technology | Blood Brain Barrier

EMF effects on the brain and opening of the blood brain barrier from wireless microwave electromagnetic frequencies. EMF side effects neuroinflammation

mdsafetech.org

😁

 

[mcmurtry66]

And the trade-off for less money damages is an easier burden of proof. Nothing you posted negates Noodle's post.

Under the Vaccine Injury Compensation Act, you can receive compensation for:

• Medical Expenses (Past and Future)
• Pain and Suffering (Past and Future) - Maximum recovery of $250,000.00
• Lost Wages (Past and Future)
• Death cases - Statutory Death Benefit (Maximum Recovery of $250,000.00) and Pain & Suffering of the Decedent (Maximum Recovery of $250,000.00).

as i said. apples and oranges. that's a major difference from a jury.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

See my post above. All Kennedy has to do is spout off a bunch of nonsense that people think sounds good, While Dr. Hotez is left trying to disprove a bunch of quackery. It's an impossible task, and someone as slick as Kennedy can make almost anything sound credible to people in desperate need of answers. It simply lends a higher level of credibility to someone like Kennedy. There's a reason courts put controls in place when examining issues such as this.

And again, should we have an astronaut on Rogan to debate a flat earther? Why not? There are tens of thousands of people who think the earth is, or might be, flat. All a flat earther would have to do is claim the photos from space are fake, and then make a few outlandish claims, and suddenly some listeners will start questioning their own belief that the earth is round.

I'd be all for an astronomer (why would you have a glorified pilot/engineer on? They're dopes that could have gone to Purdue) debating a flat earther.

Sounds fun. I'd listen.

 

[hoot1]

I suspect that the article is about RFK, Jr. not JFK, Jr.

Yikes, Sope, you are of course correct. Will edit my post.

 

[Noodle]

yeah but we don't really know because the ability for juries to determine damages was cut off. i think the most salient argument is just the volume of people who have received vaccines vs the number of claimants. their safety is overwhelmingly evident - that said a fund had to be created to mitigate/control damages and with a kennedy making the claims he is the public is deserving of fair debate imo.

The ultimate goal of the fund was to preserve the entire vaccination system.

A fair debate over an issue that has long been resolved? So, if I start yelling that the type of leather currently used in footballs has caused a marked increase in ACL tears in college football, the public is deserving of a debate between me and someone from Wilson? Or, maybe only if my last name is Kennedy? After all, Kennedy is no expert on the subject - far from it. He just has the last name Kennedy and the ability to sound like he knows what he's talking about.

 

[Noodle]

I'd be all for an astronomer (why would you have a glorified pilot/engineer on? They're dopes that could have gone to Purdue) debating a flat earther.

Sounds fun. I'd listen.

Ahh...so a guy (or gal) who has actually been to space and seen the round earth could be, what, lying?

 

[mcmurtry66]

And the trade-off for less money damages is an easier burden of proof. Nothing you posted negates Noodle's post.

oh and it gets even worse!!! the attny doesn't get a percentage. they get their hourly. bwhahahaaha talk about chilling. a federal hourly case? F that!!!!

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

See my post above. All Kennedy has to do is spout off a bunch of nonsense that people think sounds good, While Dr. Hotez is left trying to disprove a bunch of quackery. It's an impossible task, and someone as slick as Kennedy can make almost anything sound credible to people in desperate need of answers. It simply lends a higher level of credibility to someone like Kennedy. There's a reason courts put controls in place when examining issues such as this.

And again, should we have an astronaut on Rogan to debate a flat earther? Why not? There are tens of thousands of people who think the earth is, or might be, flat. All a flat earther would have to do is claim the photos from space are fake, and then make a few outlandish claims, and suddenly some listeners will start questioning their own belief that the earth is round.

Simple: because people aren't making decisions that affect the lives of their children or other's lives based on a belief in the earth being flat. They are making such decisions with respect to vaccines, so we should have the truth out there, with the best person capable of debating the anti-vax position on the merits.

 

[mcmurtry66]

The ultimate goal of the fund was to preserve the entire vaccination system.

A fair debate over an issue that has long been resolved? So, if I start yelling that the type of leather currently used in footballs has caused a marked increase in ACL tears in college football, the public is deserving of a debate between me and someone from Wilson? Or, maybe only if my last name is Kennedy? After all, Kennedy is no expert on the subject - far from it. He just has the last name Kennedy and the ability to sound like he knows what he's talking about.

i just looked it up. the plaintiff's attny doesn't get a percentage. they get their hourly. do you know any federal workers' comp lawyers? fed tort claim guys. you can count them on one hand. if thye paid out billions and there are thousands of claims people are legitimately injured. why not have a debate

 

[Sope Creek]

“because we all want that…”

I can’t agree with you there. Plenty of politicians know there is no money or control in real solutions. It’s a game FYI

That's an easy, cynical statement to make:

"No reason to get excited"
The thief, he kindly spoke
"There are many here among us
Who feel that life is but a joke
But you and I, we've been through that
And this is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now
The hour is getting late"

 

[Sope Creek]

Yikes, Sope, you are of course correct. Will edit my post.

It's easy for those of us alive in the 60s to think "JFK".

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I'd be all for an astronomer (why would you have a glorified pilot/engineer on? They're dopes that could have gone to Purdue) debating a flat earther.

Sounds fun. I'd listen.

The problem is that gives the flat earther credibility by being on stage with the astronomer. The real universe isn't always perfect, sometimes squares are off from 90 degrees, circles are more oval, straight lines have bends. The conspiracy theorist/flat earther points those out to a "see, you can't explain this" and the crowd ooohs and aahs. Very little is absolutely perfect and holding imperfections against reality scores big points easily.

 

[Sope Creek]

Let's also not forget that vaccines do cause injuries (and even deaths).

Yep, but rarely:

https://www.vaccineinjurylegalteam.com/news-information/vaccine-injury-information/

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

Let's also not forget that vaccines do cause injuries (and even deaths).

Expand on that.

 

[Sope Creek]

Under the Vaccine Injury Compensation Act, you can receive compensation for:

• Medical Expenses (Past and Future)
• Pain and Suffering (Past and Future) - Maximum recovery of $250,000.00
• Lost Wages (Past and Future)
• Death cases - Statutory Death Benefit (Maximum Recovery of $250,000.00) and Pain & Suffering of the Decedent (Maximum Recovery of $250,000.00).

as i said. apples and oranges. that's a major difference from a jury.

That's the point . . . less damages for an easier proof.

When was the last claim made for a vaccine injury out of the fund?

 

[Sope Creek]

Expand on that.

I just did, in post #176.

Here's more:

Vaccine Injuries | Jeffrey S. Pop & Associates

At Jeffrey S. Pop & Associates, an experienced attorney is available to argue your case under the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program!

www.vaccineinjuryteam.com

What are the Most-Common Vaccine Injuries?

If you are experiencing symptoms of a vaccine-related injury or illness, you may be entitled to financial compensation under the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP). Learn more from na

vaccinelaw.com

Vaccine Injury Compensation Programs

In many countries, adverse medical events resulting from vaccination are compensated by government programs.

historyofvaccines.org

 

[mcmurtry66]

That's the point . . . less damages for an easier proof.

The point is to limit damages and claims. How do you that. Cap damages and replace attny percentages with hourly. That’s the fund.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

Ahh...so a guy (or gal) who has actually been to space and seen the round earth could be, what, lying?

I'm guessing you're one of those rubes who thinks we actually landed on the moon, aren't you?

 

[Noodle]

oh and it gets even worse!!! the attny doesn't get a percentage. they get their hourly. bwhahahaaha talk about chilling. a federal hourly case? F that!!!!

Yes, but you are typically awarded your fees and costs even if you lose the case. Fees are awarded in the majority of cases. All that is required is that the claim was brought in good faith and had a reasonable basis.

And, the current fee schedule for an attorney with 31+ years experience is $495-$553 (unless the prevailing rates where you work are significantly less than in DC).

Is $550 an hour not enough for you? 🤣

 

[Noodle]

The point is to limit damages and claims. How do you that. Cap damages and replace attny percentages with hourly. That’s the fund.

Yes, with the ultimate goal of preserving our vaccination system.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Yes, but you are typically awarded your fees and costs even if you lose the case. Fees are awarded in the majority of cases. All that is required is that the claim was brought in good faith and had a reasonable basis.

And, the current fee schedule for an attorney with 31+ years experience is $495-$553 (unless the prevailing rates where you work are significantly less than in DC).

Is $550 an hour not enough for you? 🤣

Honestly it’s not. That’s nothing top pi lawyers F with. Learning all that for an hourly. Zero chance.

Not that I was ever one but I certainly worked with them.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Yes, with the ultimate goal of preserving our vaccination system.

And I’m good with that. But helping the public understand same is worthwhile

 

[hoot1]

It's easy for those of us alive in the 60s to think "JFK".

Sope, strangely enough I preferred RFK over JFK. Even voted for Nixon in '60 instead of JFK.

 

[ButHerEmails]

The problem is that gives the flat earther credibility by being on stage with the astronomer. The real universe isn't always perfect, sometimes squares are off from 90 degrees, circles are more oval, straight lines have bends. The conspiracy theorist/flat earther points those out to a "see, you can't explain this" and the crowd ooohs and aahs. Very little is absolutely perfect and holding imperfections against reality scores big points easily.

I think holocaust survivors should debate holocaust deniers. What are the survivors so scared of?

 

[Noodle]

Expand on that.

What do you mean? People have adverse reactions to vaccines, including things like anaphylaxis. Believe it or not, shoulder injuries are the most common basis for a vaccine injury claim.

 

[mcmurtry66]

What do you mean? People have adverse reactions to vaccines, including things like anaphylaxis. Believe it or not, shoulder injuries are the most common basis for a vaccine injury claim.

i don't understand why the fund. i understand to limit damages and claims but if they are typical side effect shit that can be disclaimed or eliminated via informed consent why not let the court system vet them out. lawyers work on a contingency and have to pay for experts. if there's no case they don't spend the money. it's a business. the idea of all these frivolous suits is propaganda. it's medical malpractice and products. expensive. so why not let the court system handle it UNLESS too much bad shit is happening with vaccines and too many justified big verdicts will ensue.

and i'm asking as i don't know squat about vaccines

 

[Sope Creek]

Is $550 an hour not enough for you? 🤣

Apparently not.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

Yes, but you are typically awarded your fees and costs even if you lose the case. Fees are awarded in the majority of cases. All that is required is that the claim was brought in good faith and had a reasonable basis.

And, the current fee schedule for an attorney with 31+ years experience is $495-$553 (unless the prevailing rates where you work are significantly less than in DC).

Is $550 an hour not enough for you? 🤣

Wait. What now? You get paid win or lose????

Hello, vaccine court!

 

[snarlcakes]

See my post above. All Kennedy has to do is spout off a bunch of nonsense that people think sounds good, While Dr. Hotez is left trying to disprove a bunch of quackery. It's an impossible task, and someone as slick as Kennedy can make almost anything sound credible to people in desperate need of answers. It simply lends a higher level of credibility to someone like Kennedy. There's a reason courts put controls in place when examining issues such as this.

And again, should we have an astronaut on Rogan to debate a flat earther? Why not? There are tens of thousands of people who think the earth is, or might be, flat. All a flat earther would have to do is claim the photos from space are fake, and then make a few outlandish claims, and suddenly some listeners will start questioning their own belief that the earth is round.

At some point the government and health agencies need to repair their reputations from Covid. It’s their jobs to get the majority of the country to trust them.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

The problem is that gives the flat earther credibility by being on stage with the astronomer. The real universe isn't always perfect, sometimes squares are off from 90 degrees, circles are more oval, straight lines have bends. The conspiracy theorist/flat earther points those out to a "see, you can't explain this" and the crowd ooohs and aahs. Very little is absolutely perfect and holding imperfections against reality scores big points easily.

Disagree. Neil deGrasse Tyson makes a mockery out of any flat earther. It would be a hoot.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Apparently not.

Apparently not.

think about it. there's a reason you don't see motley rice and all the others advertising for every case you can htink of with medical devises and drugs but not these. you have to learn the area. no telling when you get paid. can't do it as a class. have caps limited. have to prove your time. it's antithetical to plaintiff practice at the high end. It’s defense lawyer mentality. now my bottom feeding ass would have tried to figure it out had i known but it eliminates the top lawyers who get the big hits

 

[Noodle]

At some point the government and health agencies need to repair their reputations from Covid. It’s their jobs to get the majority of the country to trust them.

I have no problem with honest debates regarding the Covid response, Covid vaccine, etc. Debating RFK Jr., however, would not qualify as an honest debate. Sadly, many Americans think that it would be.

 

[Noodle]

Disagree. Neil deGrasse Tyson makes a mockery out of any flat earther. It would be a hoot.

I'd like to think so, but I don't think the true flat earthers would be swayed.

I think we need to build giant, high altitude balloons and just offer free rides for the lot. Take them to the edge of space. Throw the anti-vaxxers in there just for kicks.

 

[GiggityGoo]

I have no problem with honest debates regarding the Covid response, Covid vaccine, etc. Debating RFK Jr., however, would not qualify as an honest debate. Sadly, many Americans think that it would be.

That’s an interesting response Noodle. It wasn’t too long ago that public health authorities were making the same statements in regards to discussing vaccine efficacy and Covid response that many in this thread are now making about RFK Jr.

“Can’t platform the quackery.”

 

[snarlcakes]

I have no problem with honest debates regarding the Covid response, Covid vaccine, etc. Debating RFK Jr., however, would not qualify as an honest debate. Sadly, many Americans think that it would be.

I’m not trying to be rude, but this nonsense and just makes Dr. Hotez look bad. Having conversations and debates are what liberals use to be for. RFK is a Presidential candidate and if his ideas are that stupid, it should be easy for an expert to disprove them.

 

[IUINSB]

You mean the guy convicted of drug (cocaine) trafficking . . . and then perjury?

United States of America, Plaintiff-appellee, v. Robert Kennedy, Jr., Defendant-appellant, 372 F.3d 686 (4th Cir. 2004)

United States of America, Plaintiff-appellee, v. Robert Kennedy, Jr., Defendant-appellant, 372 F.3d 686 (4th Cir. 2004) case opinion from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit

law.justia.com

Hunter should be his VP.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Disagree. Neil deGrasse Tyson makes a mockery out of any flat earther. It would be a hoot.

That is because you are not susceptible. Out of the 100, the 80 that believe in reason see a clear Tyson win. The other 20, that's the problem. The Sounds of Silence was written for them.