Protesting the national anthem

[Ladoga]

Please do tell. Do you know why I was there, too? LMK if my project is a go, K?

I love Chicago...the whole city, so all sides of town are the right side to me.

http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/homicides


510 murders this year so far, almost 800 last year. Blue circles on the map. Those the parts you "love".

Dead folks aren't quite as fond of some parts of Chicago as you are. Maybe it doesn't matter to Chicago defenders. They never mention those murders.

 

[TheVegasHoosier]

So annoying that you guys think your opinion is always right, .

So you think there are times your opinion is wrong?

If so, why have it?

 

[IUCrazy2]

The issue the players are raising is an important one to many people I am close with, so I'm trying to understand your point of view. Are you saying that there is no issue, no problem, no injustice one would protest against that would merit silently kneeling during the playing of the national anthem? If a player kneeled in prayer to protest our country's laws in regard to abortion, would you feel equally offended? If (as a ridiculous hypothetical) soldiers were grabbing children from elementary schools for specialty breeding and organ harvesting, would you feel that kneeling for the national anthem in protest would still be unacceptable? I understand why some aren't converted in their thinking by these protests, but I struggle to full understand the thinking behind those taking great offense to the protests so I'd appreciate your insights.

I do not find it particularly impactful to be honest. I really do not care one way or the other if they kneel, I think it is counterproductive to whatever argument they are trying to make because I think they're starting out their protest by offending many of the people they hope to see their point of view. It is like the Koran analogy I made up above. If I want to convince Muslims that their treatment of women is wrong, how effective am I going to be if my mode of protest is to do something that a significant portion of them thinks disrespects the Koran? I would argue that I would be working against my goals. And if I did do that, ISIS will probably try and bait me to double down on that activity. Is that not the argument that gets made around here with our approach to the Middle East? I see same argument here.

I do think there ar e some injustices in the system. I also think that quite a few of the things that BLM protests are not those injustices. I perceive those groups as wanting to use a broad brush when I think it requires a finer point. The kid that seems to have started this all off (Michael Brown) was shot because of his behavior in my opinion, not his color. The Castile guy probably more because of his color and his location.

I do not think it is all so simple as black bad and white good for cops either. We have a negative feedback cycle where actions taken by the cops lead to negative reactions in the black community which leads to an even more negative response and on and on it goes.

We need a racial discussion in this country. Black people have some real grievances they need aired and addressed in order to feel welcome. But a discussion is a two way conversation. I get the impression that it is not a discussion that is wanted so much as it is a lecture.

 

[hoosboot]

http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/homicides


510 murders this year so far, almost 800 last year. Blue circles on the map. Those the parts you "love".

Dead folks aren't quite as fond of some parts of Chicago as you are. Maybe it doesn't matter to Chicago defenders. They never mention those murders.

When's the last time you've been to those neighborhoods? When's the last time you talked to the people who live there? You should go tell them how much they hate their home and see how it goes. I love all of Chicago, warts and all. Fabulous people there in all parts. Lots of things to improve, but that's true for most of the country. Doesn't stop me from loving it...all of it. So sad that you don't love all parts of our great nation.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

When's the last time you've been to those neighborhoods? When's the last time you talked to the people who live there? You should go tell them how much they hate their home and see how it goes. I love all of Chicago, warts and all. Fabulous people there in all parts. Lots of things to improve, but that's true for most of the country. Doesn't stop me from loving it...all of it. So sad that you don't love all parts of our great nation.

Since @Ladoga doesn't love all parts of the city, does that mean he hates the military?

#NewGOPLogic

 

[hoosboot]

I do not find it particularly impactful to be honest. I really do not care one way or the other if they kneel, I think it is counterproductive to whatever argument they are trying to make because I think they're starting out their protest by offending many of the people they hope to see their point of view. It is like the Koran analogy I made up above. If I want to convince Muslims that their treatment of women is wrong, how effective am I going to be if my mode of protest is to do something that a significant portion of them thinks disrespects the Koran? I would argue that I would be working against my goals. And if I did do that, ISIS will probably try and bait me to double down on that activity. Is that not the argument that gets made around here with our approach to the Middle East? I see same argument here.

I do think there ar e some injustices in the system. I also think that quite a few of the things that BLM protests are not those injustices. I perceive those groups as wanting to use a broad brush when I think it requires a finer point. The kid that seems to have started this all off (Michael Brown) was shot because of his behavior in my opinion, not his color. The Castile guy probably more because of his color and his location.

I do not think it is all so simple as black bad and white good for cops either. We have a negative feedback cycle where actions taken by the cops lead to negative reactions in the black community which leads to an even more negative response and on and on it goes.

We need a racial discussion in this country. Black people have some real grievances they need aired and addressed in order to feel welcome. But a discussion is a two way conversation. I get the impression that it is not a discussion that is wanted so much as it is a lecture.

That's interesting and I sincerely appreciate your thoughtful response. There's a lot that we agree on. I agree that millions of thoughtful discussions are badly needed. Maybe this is one of them and, if so, then the protests have done a small part of their job.

It's striking to me that you don't find the protests particularly impactful, yet here you are on a discussion board talking about them and the issues behind them (in a thoughtful and considerate way, I might add.) And those protesting haven't erred so badly as to turn you off to their cause, so they haven't "disrespected the Koran" to use your analogy. One might suggest that the tactic they are employing is to gain the attention of those who might be persuaded and worry about the rest once they have reached their tipping point. I don't think they are likely to persuade a lot of those who are virulently offended as things currently stand anyway.

I definitely could quibble with some of the tactics of some of those protesting, but that's why I look towards the conversation like the one happening between the players and police in Cleveland or the BLM protest at the Trump rally in D.C. as parts of the effort to broaden.

If you have the time, think for a moment about the questions I asked from the perspective of someone who IS offended by the flag protests (as opposed to your more agnostic feelings about them). Do you know anyone who is offended by them? Ask them those questions. I'm very curious as to the parameters of those offended by kneeling during the Anthem, so any insights you happen upon would be welcome!

 

[hoosboot]

Since @Ladoga doesn't love all parts of the city, does that mean he hates the military?

#NewGOPLogic

Um...tax cuts for job creators!

#OnlyToolOnTheToolBelt

 

[IUCrazy2]

So you think there are times your opinion is wrong?

If so, why have it?

No, the problem arises when my opinion is that blue is my favorite color and you think it should be green and then call me an idiot for thinking that way.

Have I once in this thread said that any of these guys were wrong? No. I said I think their protest is counterproductive. How many people have not only said that people who want a different level of respect during the National Anthem are not only wrong to hold their opinion but are somehow less intelligent to boot. That is where you go off the tracks.

 

[TheVegasHoosier]

No, the problem arises when my opinion is that blue is my favorite color and you think it should be green and then call me an idiot for thinking that way.

Have I once in this thread said that any of these guys were wrong? No. I said I think their protest is counterproductive. How many people have not only said that people who want a different level of respect dyeing the National Anthem are it only wrong to hold their opinion but ate somehow less intelligent to boot. That is where you go off the tracks.

They are less intelligent because Trump couldn't care less about the flag or the troops and is ONLY doing this to get his base fired up to worship him even more.

That is a fact. Period. Not an opinion.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

When's the last time you've been to those neighborhoods? When's the last time you talked to the people who live there? You should go tell them how much they hate their home and see how it goes. I love all of Chicago, warts and all. Fabulous people there in all parts. Lots of things to improve, but that's true for most of the country. Doesn't stop me from loving it...all of it. So sad that you don't love all parts of our great nation.

I enjoyed living in Chicago. Parking was a total pain in the ass though, especially since I lived about three blocks from Wrigley

 

[IUCrazy2]

That's interesting and I sincerely appreciate your thoughtful response. There's a lot that we agree on. I agree that millions of thoughtful discussions are badly needed. Maybe this is one of them and, if so, then the protests have done a small part of their job.

It's striking to me that you don't find the protests particularly impactful, yet here you are on a discussion board talking about them and the issues behind them (in a thoughtful and considerate way, I might add.) And those protesting haven't erred so badly as to turn you off to their cause, so they haven't "disrespected the Koran" to use your analogy. One might suggest that the tactic they are employing is to gain the attention of those who might be persuaded and worry about the rest once they have reached their tipping point. I don't think they are likely to persuade a lot of those who are virulently offended as things currently stand anyway.

I definitely could quibble with some of the tactics of some of those protesting, but that's why I look towards the conversation like the one happening between the players and police in Cleveland or the BLM protest at the Trump rally in D.C. as parts of the effort to broaden.

If you have the time, think for a moment about the questions I asked from the perspective of someone who IS offended by the flag protests (as opposed to your more agnostic feelings about them). Do you know anyone who is offended by them? Ask them those questions. I'm very curious as to the parameters of those offended by kneeling during the Anthem, so any insights you happen upon would be welcome!

I think various reasons for your last question. Could be people who do not like those "uppity blacks", as Rock put it, getting out of their lane. For some I think that they wrap the flag up in their views of Patriotism and they see this as making a scene during something that should be taken more seriously. Some see it as a tribute to fallen comrades and feel that this is a slap at them. I do not think there is any one thing that motivates the dislike of the form of protest.

Here is the real problem any of us are going to have in this discussion. To some in our country, the very people that are revered by others are the very people they blame for mistreatment of their ancestors...and they are right. But those same guys are viewed by others as the philosophical backbone of why we even have a country in the first place...and they are right. So with each having truth on their side we end up in this constant tug of war.

To me, step one is figuring out how to honor the flawed people who founded this country and lead it through its early years on one hand while also being able to balance some of the bad things they did on the other. That should be the easiest step. I have no idea how to tackle the following steps. I cannot think of any real historical reference points on where to go from there either, at least not ones that ended well.

And that is not even getting into concepts that immediately make people defensive.

 

[IUCrazy2]

They are less intelligent because Trump couldn't care less about the flag or the troops and is ONLY doing this to get his base fired up to worship him even more.

That is a fact. Period. Not an opinion.

Dude, they were mad about it before Trump. Trump is seizing on a populist political opportunity for sure, but do not kid yourself that these same people would not have been pissed either way. This started in September of 2016, i.e. before Trump was even elected.

 

[TheVegasHoosier]

Dude, they were mad about it before Trump. Trump is seizing on a populist political opportunity for sure, but do not kid yourself that these same people would not have been pissed either way. This started in September of 2016, i.e. before Trump was even elected.

But they are all slobbering all over Trump for "sticking up for their values" when he COULD NOT CARE LESS about the flag or anthem.

He's ONLY doing it to whip them into a frenzy so they'll love him even more.

 

[IUCrazy2]

What I’m referring to as stupid and the inability to think critically is how easy it is for these know-nothings to adopt a switched narrative that is fed down their throats. The national anthem honors our country, as a whole, not the military (however did we survive until the War of 1812 without an anthem honoring the military!!!) Protesting during the anthem does not disparage the military, period. Anybody who believe it does is a certified idiot of the highest degree.

Again, in your opinion.

I think anyone who believes they can tell someone else what a song means to them (and frankly millions like them) is wrong is the one acting ignorantly. People wrap up all sorts of things into symbolism, you do not get to be the arbiter of who has the right view of the symbolism. You are acting just like they are.

The flag, the anthem...it may not be directed at service members for you but it is something people associate that with. You can disagree but it does not make you right. Does not make you wrong either. Just means you view the symbols differently.

 

[IUCrazy2]

But they are all slobbering all over Trump for "sticking up for their values" when he COULD NOT CARE LESS about the flag or anthem.

He's ONLY doing it to whip them into a frenzy so they'll love him even more.

And you are only slobbering about Trump because he baited the NFL players into doing exactly what he wanted them to do. You are whipped into a mindless oppositional frenzy by him and your hate fuels their love. Viva la populism. You are just as much of a mindless drone as all the people you hate.

The players are mostly doing this because of Trump as well. If it were about the cause they would have been supportive of Kaepernick in far greater numbers before Trump opened his yap. Thus people viewing this as shitting on the flag or the U.S. or the military or whatever people think that pomp and pageantry represents all so a shot can be taken at Trump. You are not superior to those people. You are one of those people. You just currently lack the levers of power and the leader to direct your rage.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Again, in your opinion.

I think anyone who believes they can tell someone else what a song means to them (and frankly millions like them) is wrong is the one acting ignorantly. People wrap up all sorts of things into symbolism, you do not get to be the arbiter of who has the right view of the symbolism. You are acting just like they are.

The flag, the anthem...it may not be directed at service members for you but it is something people associate that with. You can disagree but it does not make you right. It does not make you wrong either. It just means that those symbols hold a different meaning for you.

Delete this, somehow replied to myself while trying to edit for better clarity.

 

[iuwclurker1]

Again, in your opinion.

I think anyone who believes they can tell someone else what a song means to them (and frankly millions like them) is wrong is the one acting ignorantly. People wrap up all sorts of things into symbolism, you do not get to be the arbiter of who has the right view of the symbolism. You are acting just like they are.

The flag, the anthem...it may not be directed at service members for you but it is something people associate that with. You can disagree but it does not make you right. Does not make you wrong either. Just means you view the symbols differently.

Your argument here actually lays bare why Trump and his brethren are basing their "opinions" on false reasoning. By your first paragraph, Trump does not get to be the arbiter of who has the right view of "kneeling for the National Anthem." In other words, Trump has a right to view Trump himself kneeling as a disgrace, but he has no right to judge any other's view of what kneeling symbolizes.

In short, your argument demonstrates that holding an opinion that someone's disgracing the National Anthem by kneeling for it is based on faulty reasoning and that the person holding such an opinion would change it if he were able to clarify his own reasoning for himself.

That's a gentle way of saying Trump and his brethren don't actually know what they think and instead respond viscerally to dog whistles, demagoguery and the like. Yes, including Trump. We have a President who doesn't even know what he thinks.

 

[TheVegasHoosier]

Again, in your opinion.

I think anyone who believes they can tell someone else what a song means to them (and frankly millions like them) is wrong is the one acting ignorantly. People wrap up all sorts of things into symbolism, you do not get to be the arbiter of who has the right view of the symbolism. You are acting just like they are.

The flag, the anthem...it may not be directed at service members for you but it is something people associate that with. You can disagree but it does not make you right. Does not make you wrong either. Just means you view the symbols differently.

I put up a link the other day showing the ACTUAL RULES for disrespecting the flag.

And all these "The flag is the most sacred thing in the country" crowd violate virtually every rule....including wearing it as clothing.

So their "outrage" is phonier than a 3 dollar bill.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Again, in your opinion.

I think anyone who believes they can tell someone else what a song means to them (and frankly millions like them) is wrong is the one acting ignorantly. People wrap up all sorts of things into symbolism, you do not get to be the arbiter of who has the right view of the symbolism. You are acting just like they are.

The flag, the anthem...it may not be directed at service members for you but it is something people associate that with. You can disagree but it does not make you right. Does not make you wrong either. Just means you view the symbols differently.

Yeah I disagree and I’d challenge you or anyone to make a cogent argument that the anthem and it’s intent is weighted towards the military over the rest of the citizenry.

Part of the predicament in this country is that we’ve allowed stupid to foster for too long and go unchecked. We are only now knocking down religion-fueled prohibitions on peoples basic human rights. We still have to battle teaching evolution and we still have climate science skeptics.

Using the proverbial “you” (not you, @IUCrazy2 , as follows:

1. Since we can all agree that the national anthem is a celebration of our country and that many components (eg, the military, health care providers, teachers, public safety officials, etc) make this country great, then if you think that protesting the anthem is equivalent to poking the military and vets then you are stupid.
2. If we can make certain simple distinctions that protesting during a song (that is not about the military, for the military, by the military) and see that these athletes are not picketing at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier or declaring boycotts on Memorial Day or on Veteran’s Day, yet you still bang the “the military is being disrespected” drum, then you are stupid.
3. If you can’t see that the drumming up calls of patriotism are nothing more than dog whistles catering to a base of populism it serve no purpose other than ego-stroking, then you are stupid.

End of rant.

 

[hoot1]

I wonder if many of the players who knelt even know why they were kneeling. They may have had some vague notions about unfairness to some of their brethren, but I would suspect most of them are just going along with a couple of fellow players whom they respect.

Then again, some may be responding to Trump’s call for the firing of anyone bold enough to challenge conventional behavior. Interestingly, when a college professor demands conventional behavior, it is called political correctness.

The one thing I really doubt concerning the anthem kneelers is they are somehow sending an anti military message, or they hate the country for which the flag stands.

Personally I see a great deal of wasted outrage over a bunch of professional athletes who are just following some of their buddies and shouldn’t be role models in terms of social and political discourse in the first place.

 

[sglowrider]

According to British soccer fans, the only domestic match that features it is the FA Cup final. Sports fans in other coubtries say the same: special events and international competition only. As a regular staple at everyday domestic competitions, it really is an American thing.

You are 100% correct.

Americans are hyper-patriotic with the flag waving, hand to heart, Us versus them approach to life -- which may explain why its constantly at war with others.
America is not alone on this -- a lot of 3rd world Asian or African banana republics do this too. It also helps to suppress criticism of the leadership of government, making it a criticism of the country and therefore them as a community.

The flag doesnt represent America -- its the Constitution stupid!

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

You are 100% correct.

Americans are hyper-patriotic with the flag waving, hand to heart, Us versus them approach to life -- which may explain why its constantly at war with others.
America is not alone on this -- a lot of 3rd world Asian or African banana republics do this too. It also helps to suppress criticism of the leadership of government, making it a criticism of the country and therefore them as a community.

The flag doesnt represent America -- its the Constitution stupid!

That's some serious nonsense right there!

 

[IUBBALLAWOL]

Yeah I disagree and I’d challenge you or anyone to make a cogent argument that the anthem and it’s intent is weighted towards the military over the rest of the citizenry.

Part of the predicament in this country is that we’ve allowed stupid to foster for too long and go unchecked. We are only now knocking down religion-fueled prohibitions on peoples basic human rights. We still have to battle teaching evolution and we still have climate science skeptics.

Using the proverbial “you” (not you, @IUCrazy2 , as follows:

1. Since we can all agree that the national anthem is a celebration of our country and that many components (eg, the military, health care providers, teachers, public safety officials, etc) make this country great, then if you think that protesting the anthem is equivalent to poking the military and vets then you are stupid.
2. If we can make certain simple distinctions that protesting during a song (that is not about the military, for the military, by the military) and see that these athletes are not picketing at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier or declaring boycotts on Memorial Day or on Veteran’s Day, yet you still bang the “the military is being disrespected” drum, then you are stupid.
3. If you can’t see that the drumming up calls of patriotism are nothing more than dog whistles catering to a base of populism it serve no purpose other than ego-stroking, then you are stupid.

End of rant.

Why does the left always resort to name calling?

 

[meridian]

Why does the left always resort to name calling?

Are you serious?
For a starter, go through your own posts over the years!

 

[zeke4ahs]

Why does the left always resort to name calling?

Oh so Trump's a lefty now? He calls more names than anyone I've ever met.

 

[sglowrider]

That's some serious nonsense right there!

Well Aloha, u are not going to recognise it if you have been socialised in it.

 

[wiede]

No I am not a confederate, I think history should be left alone.

Psst... Winners get to write history. You've been educated on when and why these Confederate monuments were erected. Knowing the history of the monuments is enough to know they should be taken down. Maybe they should be placed in a historical setting. But being displayed in public should never have happened- especially given the circumstances under which they appeared. Not a single one of them was erected within a few decades after the civil war. Instead, a wave of them were erected with the implementation of Jim crow laws. And the other large wave of them were erected when segregation was starting to be challenged.

Quite simply, they are tacit reminders for minorities (black people) to know their supposed place in the area where the monument stands. In other words, they were never about "heritage". And anybody that says otherwise is either severely misinformed, or is a sympathizer for the increasingly emboldened white nationalists.

Go back and read the fantastic research that rock put up after Charlottesville. Obviously you missed it or didn't understand what you were reading.

 

[TheVegasHoosier]

Why does the left always resort to name calling?

Says the guy that worships the only Prez to make up stupid insults for everyone he doesn't like and belongs to a Party that uses "Libtard" non-stop when they lose a debate........

 

[RBB89]

Why does the left always resort to name calling?

The president of the United States just called a citizen a son of a bitch for peacefully protesting.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Says the guy that worships the only Prez to make up stupid insults for everyone he doesn't like and belongs to a Party that uses "Libtard" non-stop when they lose a debate........

Says the guy who has routinely used the term "Tea Baggers" and just lied about a political party. Link to the party documents (platform, some RNC policy paper, or something) that includes the word "Libtard." This Republican has never used it and that's probably the first time I've even typed it.

You should recuse yourself from all threads about name calling and civility as a frequent practitioner of name calling and your lack of civility. There are several other things you should recuse yourself from, but the list is long and time is short.

This advice is offered with all due respect.

 

[TheVegasHoosier]

Says the guy who has routinely used the term "Tea Baggers" and just lied about a political party. Link to the party documents (platform, some RNC policy paper, or something) that includes the word "Libtard." This Republican has never used it and that's probably the first time I've even typed it.

You should recuse yourself from all threads about name calling and civility as a frequent practitioner of name calling and your lack of civility. There are several other things you should recuse yourself from, but the list is long and time is short.

This advice is offered with all due respect.

First of all, I wasn't crying about "name-calling".....I was ripping someone who was saying it was "what Lefties do" when his hero is Chief Name-Caller. So why would I need to "recuse myself"?

And why does "Libtard need to be in the party plank" for my point to be right? (rolleyes) And who cares if YOU never used it? If we had a dollar for every time a Righty has used it, we could pay off the national debt tomorrow.

As far as using Tea Baggers, Fox News used that term non-stop for an entire day when they first hit the scene.......so wipe away your tears.

Heck, I've even seen some of them walking around with hats with tea bags hanging off of them.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

First of all, I wasn't crying about "name-calling".....I was ripping someone who was saying it was "what Lefties do" when his hero is Chief Name-Caller. So why would I need to "recuse myself"?

And why does "Libtard need to be in the party plank" for my point to be right? (rolleyes) And who cares if YOU never used it? If we had a dollar for every time a Righty has used it, we could pay off the national debt tomorrow.

As far as using Tea Baggers, Fox News used that term non-stop for an entire day when they first hit the scene.......so wipe away your tears.

Heck, I've even seen some of them walking around with hats with tea bags hanging off of them.

You make me LOL.

 

[Harry Hondo]

I hope the people boycott the games and quit buying tickets and watching the BS on TV. I won't watch a single game as long as the cowards keep this crap up. Over paid prima dona's are so oppressed. Let those cowards serve in the military and actually fight for a real cause and see how quick they stand and salute the flag. They have no clue and no respect for those that have given them the right to act like cowards. Sad anyone here actually supports this cowardly behavior. But not one little bit surprising.

Comedian Chris Rock once said that no white man would ever trade places with him and he’s rich! Cowards?

 

[IUBBALLAWOL]

Comedian Chris Rock once said that no white man would ever trade places with him and he’s rich! Cowards?

You don't really believe that do you? Why more name calling? Does it make you leftist feel like big bad men/women or whatever you prefer to be addressed as?

 

[TheVegasHoosier]

You don't really believe that do you? Why more name calling? Does it make you leftist feel like big bad men/women or whatever you prefer to be addressed as?

I guess I missed where you blast Trump for his non-stop name-calling.

And you're a liar if you'd be a black man if offered a bunch of money....and neither would any whitey Righty.

 

[IUBBALLAWOL]

https://www.conservativeinstitute.o...edium=automated&utm_campaign=dynamic_campaign

Sums things up pretty nicely.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

It is being reported the Russian bots are using the NFL debate as well, taking the most strident positions on both sides.

Proof the president is a Russian chat bot.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Says the guy that worships the only Prez to make up stupid insults for everyone he doesn't like and belongs to a Party that uses "Libtard" non-stop when they lose a debate........

Did you see him bragging about "branding " people? He asked "Big Luther" if anyone else had called him that before? He's 6'9"... I'm sure no one has called him that before. He's so proud of himself and the nicknames he has for people. Our president has the emotional equivalence of an adolescent.

 

[TheVegasHoosier]

Did you see him bragging about "branding " people? He asked "Big Luther" if anyone else had called him that before? He's 6'9"... I'm sure no one has called him that before. He's so proud of himself and the nicknames he has for people. Our president has the emotional equivalence of an adolescent.

Actually, it's more like a 1st grader....and he's admitted it.

http://theweek.com/speedreads/575962/donald-trump-tells-biographer-hes-same-now-first-grade

 

[hoot1]

I wonder if many of the players who knelt even know why they were kneeling. They may have had some vague notions about unfairness to some of their brethren, but I would suspect most of them are just going along with a couple of fellow players whom they respect.

Then again, some may be responding to Trump’s call for the firing of anyone bold enough to challenge conventional behavior. Interestingly, when a college professor demands conventional behavior, it is called political correctness.

The one thing I really doubt concerning the anthem kneelers is they are somehow sending an anti military message, or they hate the country for which the flag stands.

Personally I see a great deal of wasted outrage over a bunch of professional athletes who are just following some of their buddies and shouldn’t be role models in terms of social and political discourse in the first place.

After watching the Anderson Cooper Show last night featuring a national debate on the anthem and protesting, I have to admit my remarks (shown below in bold) were off the mark.

Personally I see a great deal of wasted outrage over a bunch of professional athletes who are just following some of their buddies and shouldn’t be role models in terms of social and political discourse in the first place.​

Turns out players such as Malcomb Jenkins are community activists who work with law enforcement to resolve problems concerning race relations. So some players can be looked to as role models on the subject of race relations and law enforcement,

For anyone still open minded on this subject, you will find the show linked above to be refreshing in terms of people disagreeing while still being respectful to each other.