I didn't say you were....I'm saying the typical pro-Trump names on here. It clearly gets them pumped up....this kind of crap.
Yes, he knows how to manipulate his base very well.....but that's not exactly a talent. And certainly isn't leadership.
Protesting the national anthem
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I didn't say you were....I'm saying the typical pro-Trump names on here. It clearly gets them pumped up....this kind of crap.
Yes, he knows how to manipulate his base very well.....but that's not exactly a talent. And certainly isn't leadership.
I think it is absolutely a talent. Going into a midterm election, the smart political thing to do is to get people worked up over an issue. He had this dropped in his lap. And the crazy thing is that I really do not think there is any thought behind it when he picks up the phone and bangs out a tweet. He just saw something that pissed him off and fired off about it.
That is a ridiculous complaint. Just because they are rich, they shouldn't protest? So, what, we ask that only the people no one is going to pay attention to, anyway, do the protesting? That makes it really easy for you to ignore, at least.
And being rich isn't a perfect shield. Ask Michael Bennett.
We will see how it plays out. We know minorities do not turn out for midterms, older whites do. His base is more capped in that regard.
No, protest away. Just do not think they are the best poster guys for oppression.
Ultimately you protest to change opinions, how many minds do you think were changed this weekend? How many potential allies do you think had their opinions hardened against the position the players say they are protesting for this weekend?
At the end of the day for me, whatever, do not really care. But if I was someone hoping to advance the goals of BLM or what have you, I would have viewed this weekend as extremely counterproductive. African Americans are a minority in this country. Like it or not, things do not change until you get a majority of the majority to see your viewpoint. What they saw this weekend was a bunch of guys kneeling for the anthem to stick it in Trump's eye. They saw Lebron call the President a bum and say that a trip to the White House is only as important as the occupant of it. Awesome, total Winzzz!!!1!!1 for that team. You sure showed him. You cut off your nose to spite your face, but you looked cool doing it. The message got lost in all of that.
Sorry haven't really followed much NFL whatsoever this past year.....but again...was this really still an issue getting much attention this year? I know it was with Kap last year.....but again, he's not even playing anywhere this year.
What other players were even doing much of this prior to Trump's rant?
And no....I don't find acting like an asshat by pulling out extremist red meat to be impressive. But I'm also not the target audience for his rants.
Not impressive, a talent. Belching the ABCs is a talent, nothing impressive about it though. Do not conflate the two.
I have not been following a whole bunch either but I know the Kap stuff had carried over to this year when he failed to land a job on any team.
I don't think the message got lost at all. Quite the contrary, the only people who can't find the message are people who are already predisposed to support Trump and ignore the plight of minorities, for various reasons.
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
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I don’t know that you’re qualified to speak for everybody. Our President is a man who is playing the “they’re disrespecting the military” card and is the same creature that basically called McCain a beta male because he was captured. If Trump voters can’t put two and two together (which I know many of them can’t), then I’ve no use for them or their cognitive dissonance.
Look I’ll say it again: I also don’t believe that there is a good consistent message when these players are kneeling in cities that they are not from and don’t know the local police relations. These kneelings would be far more effective if they were done at high school games or other local levels by actual locals. They started the conversation in some markets, though, and I think that’s a good thing.
You’re clearly in a mindset that reacts to these protests (or BLM for that matter) in pattern A. Others react to it in Pattern B.
It all boils down to the fact that Americans cannot think critically anymore and it’s going to eventually cause our destruction.
I don't particular like Kapernick, but he has actually sacrificed his career and millions of dollars due to his stance. For that alone, his idealism is to be envied.
Normally, I don't pay attention to multimillionaire athletes whining about this or that, because they are far more privileged than most posters here. Kap is truly sacrificing.
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I’ll never understand the “shut up because you’re rich” mentality. Achieving financial success on the playing field doesn’t preclude one from having suffered grave injustices in their past. If someone that achieves a platform doesn’t use it, they are helping to perpetuate the injustices happening to those like them (except in greater numbers) that did not achieve success.
If I may draw a conclusion, the commality among Trump supporters is that they are an emotionally driven lot, who respond with vigor to appeals of emotion. Supporting evidence and a strong argument is wholely necessary. If fact, Trump supporters detest intellectualism in favor of Christianity, nationalism, and barbarism. To be deplorable is a badge of honor. This is precisely how you end up with a Roy Moore in the Senate.
Well Kapernick just donated $1 million to various causes. You have professional basketball players earning $30 million per year, speaking out about various causes, who don't donate a penny to said cause.
I suppose it's healthy when they use their public profile to draw attention to various causes. My issue is the suggestion that they themselves (i.e. LeBron James) are somehow significantly oppressed.
More importantly, there are activists who pour their heart and soul into various noble causes, who face oppression, yet receive no credit nor glory.
Alejandro villanueva says it best...
I absolutely think he was very brave for what he did. I don't necessarily agree with the fact he kneeled down for the national anthem. I also don't understand every single circumstance going on in his life. I do it because of all the veterans, all the soldiers I served with. I wore that flag when I was overseas and doing missions. If I ever looked to my left or my right, I'd see an American flag. That's the reason why I [stand]. But I think whether you kneel for the national anthem or not has become a bigger issue and a much bigger question than the things they protested about. It's taking away a lot of attention.
I absolutely think he was very brave for what he did. I don't necessarily agree with the fact he kneeled down for the national anthem. I also don't understand every single circumstance going on in his life. I do it because of all the veterans, all the soldiers I served with. I wore that flag when I was overseas and doing missions. If I ever looked to my left or my right, I'd see an American flag. That's the reason why I [stand]. But I think whether you kneel for the national anthem or not has become a bigger issue and a much bigger question than the things they protested about. It's taking away a lot of attention.
My favorite part about Blackhawks games tho... Jim cornelison is the man
Unfortunately I think he has a point. I was at B-Dubs yesterday watching football with some friends and I heard a lot of conversation about this. Some didn't have a clue what it was about. Many claimed it was a protest against Trump which is sorta true and few mentioned Black Lives Matter at all which is suppose to be the cause. Many were clearly angry with the protesters. Heard a lot of "f**k them" and stuff like that and it wasn't just from the white people. I'm a supporter of the BLM cause of course but my opinion is that these protests aren't much help in changing any minds and could be counterproductive. I'm afraid this will help Trump too. Seems like a lot of the crazy chit he does helps him.
Bob Costas spoke eloquently to this. People have lost all sense of nuance. You wear a flag pin, but treat people horribly and you're a great patriot. Knell for the anthem, and no matter what you do, you are awful human.
You don't understand that they might actually be concerned for others? You don't get that even though LeBron James is a millionaire but still gets the N word painted on his door? Or that it doesn't prevent them from being stopped for driving while black? It's hard to step out of your bubble sometimes.
I do not think they are awful people. I think that in some respects they have a point. I think our policing can be overly heavy handed across the board at times.
How many people who might be receptive to that message do you think were turned off by the protests yesterday? That is my point. Kaepernik seems like a genuine guy who believes in what he is doing. He did bring attention to the topic but how much of that attention has been counterproductive to his goals?
Again, this really is not a matter of whether you agree with anyone's reasoning or not. It is the reality of the situation. Doing this creates enemies out of potential allies and if you are trying to make a change, you need all the friends you can get.
No, I get that you are saying they aren't really helping their cause. But they are actually getting people to talk. I've seen a few worthwhile dialogues on social media that didn't turn into the normal foodfights.
The purpose of kneeling isn't to change minds. It's to keep the issue "in your face" and force people to talk about it. To that end, it's working, and Trump actually helped quite a bit. CBS and Fox both showed every national anthem on TV yesterday. They wouldn't have done that if Trump hadn't spouted off.Unfortunately I think he has a point. I was at B-Dubs yesterday watching football with some friends and I heard a lot of conversation about this. Some didn't have a clue what it was about. Many claimed it was a protest against Trump which is sorta true and few mentioned Black Lives Matter at all which is suppose to be the cause. Many were clearly angry with the protesters. Heard a lot of "f**k them" and stuff like that and it wasn't just from the white people. I'm a supporter of the BLM cause of course but my opinion is that these protests aren't much help in changing any minds and could be counterproductive. I'm afraid this will help Trump too. Seems like a lot of the crazy chit he does helps him.
I just don't see this doing much for Trump other than offering yet another red meat distraction to throw at his base. He's certainly not motivating any new supporters or changing any minds with this kind of talk. All he's doing is stoking the particularly ugly portion of his base that is primarily motivated by racial resentment. I don't think that's a portion he's in any danger of losing, anyway.
Shouldn't you be more worried about the Jews pushing interracial coupling through our TV screens?
The catch is, are we talking about injustice faced by minorities, or are we talking about standing for the anthem? We are talking, but very very little of that talk is on why they are kneeling.
I guess it depends who is having the conversation. Fox News, Breitbert, our esteemed conservative colleagues here, they all want to talk about standing. But if you actually read player interviews, and listen to some analysts talk about it outside the conservative bubble, you get the deeper meaning. By and large, I thought the sports world did a good job this weekend of not letting Trump control the framing of the conversation.
And they only had the players come out for it around '09 after the military PAID THEM TO DO IT to help recruitment. Before that, they stayed in the locker rooms.
When you think about it, though, it's pretty stupid and meaningless (and I say that as a guy who goes to sporting events early just to hear the Anthem).
If you REALLY want to "honor our military", don't send them off to BS wars.
And when they come back, make sure they are taken care of. How many thousands of vets are homeless?
Standing up for a song and putting a sticker on here car means jack squat and just lets you feel good about yourself while actually doing nothing to actually take care of them.
(And before you wet yourself, when I say "you", I'm not just talking about YOU but all the fake patriots).
But it's not about across the board. It's about being more heavy handed against black folks. That you had to generalize it is telling. The whole issue is about uneven police treatment, not police treatment "across the board".
I don't see how anyone could actually listen to some of these players talk and not have some empathy for them. Many of them tearing up from emotion when trying to explain. But it seems many are missing the empathy gene these days, particularly fearless leader.
I would gladly trade the weekend's conversation for one CNN (Fox would be better) town hall discussion on discrimination in America today. We often choose to believe what makes us feel comfortable. I believe some of our conservative friends are in that bubble, things aren't perfect but they aren't very bad. I think they can be jarred from that bubble. That isn't happening, and sadly you, me, and our similarly minded friends are a decided minority on the issue. We have to move people from A to B, and kneeling does not seem likely to pierce the comfort bubble.
There is still a race problem in America. Unless Bull Connor helps out again, we need something else to jar reality. Bizarrely enough, Charlottesville did not do that. If Charlottesville did not, kneeling will not.
All that said, I want someone to hire Kap.that team will gain my support.
Agreed. When I look on social media, I can tell so many people that feel qualified to tell people how, when and where they should protest. Many of these people do not have a single friend that's a POC. That's not usually their fault, but how can they not get that there is no way for them to have a genuine perspective on this?
That feeds to a question I was pondering, would my desire to stand for the flag be reduced if I, or a loved one, had ever been wrongly beaten by agents of the government. I cannot help but think it would be a negative.
I've never heard that before so I checked it out and it is false that this started in 2009 because the military paid for it. See Snopes which says:
Players always had the option of standing on the sidelines during the national anthem, and there is no evidence that "paid patriotism" initiatives begun in 2009 required them to do so.
I'd invite those who have voiced support of "kneeling" during the playing of the NAtional Anthem to name - list, perhaps - specifically why the "kneeling" is occurring and also please advise how, whatever the complaint may be, as you list them, these matters came to be a current hot issue when a month or so ago, nothing like this happened except Kapernick's "kneeling".
So, set Kapernick aside and pray tell what is/are the grievance(s) as you see them.
Though it was not yet our National Anthem, the practice began in at the World Series in 1917 to honor those who were killed or wounded in WW I. It became the National Anthem in 1934 I believe, so the practice of playing the Anthem before sporting events is a mere 100 years old now.
IMHO, the people who saw the President's tweets and the players' reactions over the weekend and side with the President weren't "potential allies". I saw a lot of the President's allies actually call him out though.
