Protesting the national anthem

[CO. Hoosier]

To me the saddest part about this conservative hysteria is that their ability to reason is so degraded that they can't separate the difference between protesting systemic problems and using the National Anthem to call people's attention to their concerns.

This hysterical and sad conservative sees common respect and common protocols for things like the flag and the National Anthem as part of the antidote for systemic problems and divisions in the county, not a cause of them. MLK apparently agreed with me.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I have been wanting to ask this, does anyone know the history of the Anthem at sports? We don't do it before lectures, debates, movies, plays, and concerts.

Also, what about Europe, Japan, and South America. If I were to go see Man United, would I hear God Save the Queen?

Canada plays it in NHL games. Canada and the US play both.

Remember when a singer in Toronto didn't finish the Start Spangled Banner cuz of technical issues, and the Canadian crowd took up the slack and finished it? Impressive.

 

[UncleMark]

Having said that, somebody started this national anthem thing on sports, which has/had nothing to do with patriotism.

Per this Kommie Kanuckistani, player participation (NFL) started in 2009 as a recruitment tool.

http://www.macleans.ca/news/world/trump-taking-a-knee-in-the-nfl-and-the-true-meaning-of-patriotism/

 

[meridian]

Per this Kommie Kanuckistani, player participation (NFL) started in 2009 as a recruitment tool.

http://www.macleans.ca/news/world/trump-taking-a-knee-in-the-nfl-and-the-true-meaning-of-patriotism/

Thanks for the link. So, what started out as a recruitment tool has become a sacred national meme! That makes a perfect sense. As for me, I have never understood why sporting events require a display of patriotism. They don't do that in symphony performances, art exhibitions, or science conventions. Does that mean music lovers, scientists, and artists are less patriotic than sports fans?

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

Please explain how protesting during the anthem by kneeling silently is "a guise of peaceful protest" and "disrespects the country." Show your work. Otherwise piss off.

Wouldn’t “a guise of peaceful protest” be kneeling silently and instead of staying in knelt silence, you jump up and start shooting people?

 

[Accuro]

Thanks for the link. So, what started out as a recruitment tool has become a sacred national meme! That makes a perfect sense. As for me, I have never understood why sporting events require a display of patriotism. They don't do that in symphony performances, art exhibitions, or science conventions. Does that mean music lovers, scientists, and artists are less patriotic than sports fans?

That is one of the points I raised in my OP, the fact that it has always been required at any sporting event. I also suggested that the NFL owners stop the tradition since they are now perfectly okay with disrespecting it.

 

[Ladoga]

I have been wanting to ask this, does anyone know the history of the Anthem at sports? We don't do it before lectures, debates, movies, plays, and concerts.

Also, what about Europe, Japan, and South America. If I were to go see Man United, would I hear God Save the Queen?

I saw it done in 2016 before a concert by an English band ELO at the Hollywood Bowl.

 

[Ladoga]

Actually closer to 8 MILLION more that didn't.Have to figure the folks who WANTED to vote for Trump did,but the folks who voted 3rd party may not have wanted to vote for HRC but would have voted for Trump had they wanted to do so...

OK then. When were none of Clinton or any of the 3rd party candidates and independents on the ballot inaugurated President? Did the TV networks just not show us?

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

h/t @burnthemallralphie for sending this in front of me:

97-year old WW2 vet takes a knee to show solidarity with NFL protesters:

This form of protest may be new, but civil rights activism is old hat for Middlemas, who consented to a brief interview with the News-Leader with the help of his daughter, Maile Auterson.

"I wanted to communicate what I always told to my grand-kids and everybody else," Middlemas said. "When they'd go to bed at night, we'd tell the kids we wanted to be like Jesus."


By that, Middlemas wants to communicate a message of peace and acceptance. His desire to be inclusive is rooted in his time serving alongside black members of the military while deployed on a submarine.

"I'm trying to say that you have to love everybody," he said, adding he hopes "the whole world" will get his message. "We don't kill people. We want to make people live."​

 

[IUBBALLAWOL]

I hope the people boycott the games and quit buying tickets and watching the BS on TV. I won't watch a single game as long as the cowards keep this crap up. Over paid prima dona's are so oppressed. Let those cowards serve in the military and actually fight for a real cause and see how quick they stand and salute the flag. They have no clue and no respect for those that have given them the right to act like cowards. Sad anyone here actually supports this cowardly behavior. But not one little bit surprising.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

97-year old WW2 vet takes a knee to show solidarity with NFL protesters:

and...

They have no clue and no respect for those that have given them the right to act like cowards. Sad anyone here actually supports this cowardly behavior.

That pretty much sums it all up.

 

[IUBBALLAWOL]

Why do you post here? What will it take for you to realize how mismatched you are to the competition on here? You post like you have the intellect of a sixth grader.

I've served in the military. I've been shot at more times than I care to remember and have had to MEDEVAC soldiers off the battlefield after IEDs. Taking a knee during the anthem has zero effect on me. Must be because I'm not a driveling idiot.

Why don't you stop being a sycophantic coward and think for yourself?

And i was taught in sixth grade calling people names was what losers do.

 

[zeke4ahs]

I hope the people boycott the games and quit buying tickets and watching the BS on TV. I won't watch a single game as long as the cowards keep this crap up. Over paid prima dona's are so oppressed. Let those cowards serve in the military and actually fight for a real cause and see how quick they stand and salute the flag. They have no clue and no respect for those that have given them the right to act like cowards. Sad anyone here actually supports this cowardly behavior. But not one little bit surprising.

You're talking about Trump again, right? I'd have to agree. Cowardly? Check: multiple deferments due to "heel spurs." Not saluting the flag? Check: seen that a couple of times, once Melania had to nudge him. Over paid prima "Dona"? Check and double check.
Congrats! You nailed it!

 

[IUBBALLAWOL]

You're talking about Trump again, right? I'd have to agree. Cowardly? Check: multiple deferments due to "heel spurs." Not saluting the flag? Check: seen that a couple of times, once Melania had to nudge him. Over paid prima "Dona"? Check and double check.
Congrats! You nailed it!

If you think i wouldn't call out DT for not standing and respecting the flag you are sadly mistaken.

 

[Accuro]

I hope the people boycott the games and quit buying tickets and watching the BS on TV. I won't watch a single game as long as the cowards keep this crap up. Over paid prima dona's are so oppressed. Let those cowards serve in the military and actually fight for a real cause and see how quick they stand and salute the flag. They have no clue and no respect for those that have given them the right to act like cowards. Sad anyone here actually supports this cowardly behavior. But not one little bit surprising.

Amen and amen. Finally, someone who actually gets it.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Amen and amen. Finally, someone who actually gets it.

You see that AWOL? You have connected with our resident Klansman. Congratulations.

 

[IUBBALLAWOL]

Amen and amen. Finally, someone who actually gets it.

Just friggin embarrassing the left supports this crap.

 

[meridian]

What am I getting at? We are tired of the left trying to tell how to live our lives. Knock off the nazi crap it’s getting old. Remember nazi is a N word too!

How does it differ from the Right telling us how to live our lives?

 

[Accuro]

You see that AWOL? You have connected with our resident Klansman. Congratulations.

Did you even bother to read my op?

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Did you even bother to read my op?

Of course I did, including the part where this only bothered you because it was "athletes of color."

Go burn a cross.

 

[Accuro]

Just friggin embarrassing the left supports this crap.

I don't see this as being a right versus left issue, but rather more about disrespect by a lot of rich ingrates.

 

[Accuro]

Of course I did, including the part where this only bothered you because it was "athletes of color."

Go burn a cross.

I only added that because I feel that it is the main reason why these actions are being tolerated. If white athletes were doing this, it would not have been supported; it would have been called racist.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I only added that because I feel that it is the main reason why these actions are being tolerated. If white athletes were doing this, it would not have been supported; it would have been called racist.

 

[DrHoops]

I’m sure they’ll miss you!

I hope the people boycott the games and quit buying tickets and watching the BS on TV. I won't watch a single game as long as the cowards keep this crap up. Over paid prima dona's are so oppressed. Let those cowards serve in the military and actually fight for a real cause and see how quick they stand and salute the flag. They have no clue and no respect for those that have given them the right to act like cowards. Sad anyone here actually supports this cowardly behavior. But not one little bit surprising.

 

[zeke4ahs]

https://www.thenation.com/article/the-fragile-toxic-masculinity-of-donald-trump/

 

[IUBBALLAWOL]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...yWVXCI&usg=AFQjCNE7XGy_CJXBebGXk1A0GE8ZpFH7Gg

 

[cosmickid]

OK then. When were none of Clinton or any of the 3rd party candidates and independents on the ballot inaugurated President? Did the TV networks just not show us?

A little context? "Lucy" made a troll post about 60 MILLION voting for Trump and someone pointed out that 3 MILLION more folks voted against him than for him.I merely added that the number of anti-Trump votes was closer to 8 Million more than for him.We're talking OVERALL numbers here,not the fact that some 77,000 votes in the midwest swung the EV for doofus.

Anyway you look at it,a minority of registered voters who voted, voted for the man who currently occupies the WH.When was the last time that was true of a Dem candidate?

 

[iuwclurker1]

It's not part of tradition or required by etiquette for people to stand while they play the National Anthem when it's played on TV. I've seen this comment before and it's ignorant.

We play the National Anthem on every military base and US vessel every morning and evening. We stand and salute when outside IAW all the military protocols. I'll stand at attention and place my hand over my heart IAW tradition every time I hear it and in the appropriate setting and I'm proud to do it. If you don't respect the tradition and protocol, more power to you. If people want to call attention to their issues by not following tradition and protocols, more power to them. I don't think it's a very good way to do it, but go right on. Just respect the right of others to criticize you and them.

You're missing my basic point. The criticism I'm criticizing is not that tradition and protocols are not being followed. I'm criticizing the ignorance of equating not following tradition and protocol with hating the Flag.

 

[meridian]

I am very happy with President Trump performance so far

I am sure you are. What else is new?

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I see Jackie Robinson wrote in his autobiography that he could no longer "stand and sing the national anthem".

My personal view, I do not like blending entertainment and politics. I wish the players stood. But their life is different. They need to do what they need to do.

People have a right to protest that. It is our system. Power to them, that is their right.

But I wonder, if the world totally ignored Kap when he first knelt, what would be happening today? The reaction has fanned the flames in my opinion.

 

[37Hoosier]

I only added that because I feel that it is the main reason why these actions are being tolerated. If white athletes were doing this, it would not have been supported; it would have been called racist.

White athletes are doing it....and supporting the right of others to do it...We do have a thing called a constitution, we all get our chance to voice our opinion. I don't even know why they play the anthem at sporting events in the first place other than the Olympics. It is kinda dumb to do so. What is really annoying is the folks that sing the anthem and try to really "make it there own", very overwrought.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

I see Jackie Robinson wrote in his autobiography that he could no longer "stand and sing the national anthem".

My personal view, I do not like blending entertainment and politics. I wish the players stood. But their life is different. They need to do what they need to do.

People have a right to protest that. It is our system. Power to them, that is their right.

But I wonder, if the world totally ignored Kap when he first knelt, what would be happening today? The reaction has fanned the flames in my opinion.

I thought about something else this morning while having a crappy workout:

Where is the disgust at the people that will not stand for the national anthem based on religious grounds? There are numerous sects of Christianity and other Abrahamic religions that will not stand during the anthem.

Where is the phony right-wing outrage for these practices? Why isn’t @IUBBALLAWOL claiming that they’re disrespecting his step fathers service?

 

[IUCrazy2]

I thought about something else this morning while having a crappy workout:

Where is the disgust at the people that will not stand for the national anthem based on religious grounds? There are numerous sects of Christianity and other Abrahamic religions that will not stand during the anthem.

Where is the phony right-wing outrage for these practices? Why isn’t @IUBBALLAWOL claiming that they’re disrespecting his step fathers service?

They can sit, they can stand, they can not come out. The thing that they apparently cannot do is realize how totally counterproductive it is to have multimillionaires who play a child's game in mega-stadiums built on the taxes of the very people who are most likely to be offended by them not standing and then think that they are somehow helping the cause.

Trump is an idiot savant. I do not really think he is clever enough to do this on purpose but he basically baited these guys into doing the very thing that is going to further entrench his base against them and their political wishes. And we are not talking racists here, we are talking the people who do have a genuine respect for the country and the sacrifices they believe that flag stands for. You are not going to get their support by disrespecting something they hold dear whether you have the right to do the disrespecting or not. And you certainly are picking the wrong spokespeople for oppression in America when you pick guys who are basically living out the dream of every sports fan in the country. Rosa Parks was effective because she was an everyday citizen who was tired and just wanted a damn seat on the bus like anyone else. If she normally got driven around in a limo and decided to hop on the bus to make a point, it is magnitudes of levels less effective.

 

[twenty02]

I find people that have to wrap themselves in the flag, and get bent out of shape over 'respect' to be incredibly juvenile. They have a very warped idea as to what freedom actually is. Typically just means free to behave in the way that they see fit to behave.

The national anthem shouldn't even be played at sporting events, IMO.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

They can sit, they can stand, they can not come out. The thing that they apparently cannot do is realize how totally counterproductive it is to have multimillionaires who play a child's game in mega-stadiums built on the taxes of the very people who are most likely to be offended by them not standing and then think that they are somehow helping the cause.

Trump is an idiot savant. I do not really think he is clever enough to do this on purpose but he basically baited these guys into doing the very thing that is going to further entrench his base against them and their political wishes. And we are not talking racists here, we are talking the people who do have a genuine respect for the country and the sacrifices they believe that flag stands for. You are not going to get their support by disrespecting something they hold dear whether you have the right to do the disrespecting or not. And you certainly are picking the wrong spokespeople for oppression in America when you pick guys who are basically living out the dream of every sports fan in the country. Rosa Parks was effective because she was an everyday citizen who was tired and just wanted a damn seat on the bus like anyone else. If she normally got driven around in a limo and decided to hop on the bus to make a point, it is magnitudes of levels less effective.

To what end? What is the point of him galvanizing his base against such a stupid issue? Anybody who says they've stopped watching the NFL because of this is either a) stupid or more likely b) lying.

An anti-NFL stance is not going to move the needle at the polling station.

 

[IUCrazy2]

I find people that have to wrap themselves in the flag, and get bent out of shape over 'respect' to be incredibly juvenile. They have a very warped idea as to what freedom actually is. Typically just means free to behave in the way that they see fit to behave.

The national anthem shouldn't even be played at sporting events, IMO.

Good for you.

I find people who think that kneeling down while the anthem is being played before collecting their giant check from owners who are almost the very definition of "the man" have a very warped view of what it means to be oppressed.

And at the end of the day, my opinion and your opinion on any of these people's feelings does not matter. They are trying to convince a group of people to go along with them all while taking a crap on something they find important.

Try to convince Mulsims that they need to change something about their culture by burning the Koran. It is just a book that means nothing to you and you think people that follow it are silly so who cares anyway right? You have a right to protest after all so **** their feelings.

 

[IUCrazy2]

To what end? What is the point of him galvanizing his base against such a stupid issue? Anybody who says they've stopped watching the NFL because of this is either a) stupid or more likely b) lying.

An anti-NFL stance is not going to move the needle at the polling station.

It is not an anti NFL stance he pushing.

http://datechguyblog.com/2017/09/24/its-a-trump-trap-and-the-nfl-nba-and-dems-walked-right-in/

 

[Fro]

At least before this weekend, they were taking a knee in response to cops either unnecessarily (or completely unjustifiably in some cases) killing African-Americans and getting away without criminal punishment in nearly all cases.

To what end? What is the point of him galvanizing his base against such a stupid issue? Anybody who says they've stopped watching the NFL because of this is either a) stupid or more likely b) lying.

An anti-NFL stance is not going to move the needle at the polling station.

Yeah, I just don't see this being a winning issue when you make a lot of people who weren't actively political start to speak out against you.

Heck, you have Dale Jr and Tom Brady bashing Trump today. The NFL will push its talking points out to all the sports talk radio hosts who aren't going to cross the NFL and lose their meal ticket.

It'd be different if he was using this during the week to distract from something else he did, but the health care bill is in trouble. Meanwhile he's wasting time on this crap while there's a huge crisis in Puerto Rico and nuclear brinkmanship with North Korea, let alone a lot of important Congressional deadlines at the end of the month.

 

[twenty02]

Good for you.

I find people who think that kneeling down while the anthem is being played before collecting their giant check from owners who are almost the very definition of "the man" have a very warped view of what it means to be oppressed.

And at the end of the day, my opinion and your opinion on any of these people's feelings does not matter. They are trying to convince a group of people to go along with them all while taking a crap on something they find important.

Try to convince Mulsims that they need to change something about their culture by burning the Koran. It is just a book that means nothing to you and you think people that follow it are silly so who cares anyway right? You have a right to protest after all so **** their feelings.

The players weren't the ones that made this an issue. It was the divider in chief, with another one of his childish, vulgar rants.

How many players were kneeling in week 1 or 2? Kap doesn't have a team. Who else was there....until Trump started his typical bullshit at another of his rallies for troglodytes?

He's a disgusting example of a "leader'"....and all the usual suspects here rush to his defense.

 

[IUCrazy2]

The players weren't the ones that made this an issue.

How many players were kneeling in week 1 or 2? Kap doesn't have a team. Who else was there....until Trump started his typical bullshit at another of his rallies for troglodytes?

He's a disgusting example of a "leader'"....and all the usual suspects here rush to his defense.

Who is defending him? I certainly am not. We have hurricanes, North Korea, etc. that we could be dealing with and instead he is playing Twitter about this inanity.

That is not to say that this stuff is going to be very effective for his base.