Peggy Noonan . . .

[CO. Hoosier]

. . .has never been a Trump fan. Her conservatism is as genuine as her forthright honesty about politics. After noting she supported neither major party for the last two elections, she heralded the GOP convention (and by implication the party) as stupendous and a triumph. The conversion of the GOP to a populist national party is complete, irreversible, and Trumpian. She seems to approve.

The convention was wild in the way things that are alive are wild. Harmeet Dhillon covered her head with a shawl to sing a Sikh prayer; Amber Rose, the beautiful young woman with face tattoos being cheered for speaking about what it is to support Donald Trump in her media world, and why she is willing to pay the price; Shabbos Kestenbaum, the Harvard grad suing Harvard for discrimination over its failures after Oct. 7; J.D. Vance’s mother throwing kisses to the crowd as it chanted her name, and her son saying maybe they’ll have her 10th anniversary clean and sober in the White House. The citizens were so much more eloquent than the professionals.​

And of course Sean O’Brien, head of the Teamsters, railing against corporate greed to a Republican convention whose delegates warmly applauded.​

And none of that was even the headline. The headline: This wasn’t a divided party, it was a party united. It wasn’t only Mr. Trump’s party, it was an explicitly Trumpian party.​

We saw something epochal: the finalization and ratification of a change in the essential nature of one of the two major political parties of the world’s most powerful nation. It is now a populist, working-class, nationalist party. That is where its sympathies, identification and affiliation lie. There will be shifts, stops and accommodations in the future, no party ever has a clear line, history intervenes, but it is changed, and there will be no going back.​

Read the whole thing.

https://archive.is/iAIlj

 

[mcmurtry66]

Populism and the New Conservative Movement: a polemic against political division and a call for one national party

Class is in session at Coh U!!!!!

*this is a 500 level course

 

[Bowlmania]

. . .has never been a Trump fan. Her conservatism is as genuine as her forthright honesty about politics. After noting she supported neither major party for the last two elections, she heralded the GOP convention (and by implication the party) as stupendous and a triumph. The conversion of the GOP to a populist national party is complete, irreversible, and Trumpian. She seems to approve.

The convention was wild in the way things that are alive are wild. Harmeet Dhillon covered her head with a shawl to sing a Sikh prayer; Amber Rose, the beautiful young woman with face tattoos being cheered for speaking about what it is to support Donald Trump in her media world, and why she is willing to pay the price; Shabbos Kestenbaum, the Harvard grad suing Harvard for discrimination over its failures after Oct. 7; J.D. Vance’s mother throwing kisses to the crowd as it chanted her name, and her son saying maybe they’ll have her 10th anniversary clean and sober in the White House. The citizens were so much more eloquent than the professionals.​

And of course Sean O’Brien, head of the Teamsters, railing against corporate greed to a Republican convention whose delegates warmly applauded.​

And none of that was even the headline. The headline: This wasn’t a divided party, it was a party united. It wasn’t only Mr. Trump’s party, it was an explicitly Trumpian party.​

We saw something epochal: the finalization and ratification of a change in the essential nature of one of the two major political parties of the world’s most powerful nation. It is now a populist, working-class, nationalist party. That is where its sympathies, identification and affiliation lie. There will be shifts, stops and accommodations in the future, no party ever has a clear line, history intervenes, but it is changed, and there will be no going back.​

Read the whole thing.

https://archive.is/iAIlj

TDS - - to the max!

 

[Cortez88]

I’m looking forward to seeing all the old school conservatives champion tariffs. Things are too expensive in Biden’s America. So here’s a policy that will raise those prices.

I do like the subtle move away from some of the social conservative issues, but I can’t get onboard this populism train.

 

[Bowlmania]

I’m looking forward to seeing all the old school conservatives champion tariffs. Things are too expensive in Biden’s America. So here’s a policy that will raise those prices.

I do like the subtle move away from some of the social conservative issues, but I can’t get onboard this populism train.

Tariffs. And unions. And Trump. Oh my.

 

[Digressions]

. . .has never been a Trump fan. Her conservatism is as genuine as her forthright honesty about politics. After noting she supported neither major party for the last two elections, she heralded the GOP convention (and by implication the party) as stupendous and a triumph. The conversion of the GOP to a populist national party is complete, irreversible, and Trumpian. She seems to approve.

The convention was wild in the way things that are alive are wild. Harmeet Dhillon covered her head with a shawl to sing a Sikh prayer; Amber Rose, the beautiful young woman with face tattoos being cheered for speaking about what it is to support Donald Trump in her media world, and why she is willing to pay the price; Shabbos Kestenbaum, the Harvard grad suing Harvard for discrimination over its failures after Oct. 7; J.D. Vance’s mother throwing kisses to the crowd as it chanted her name, and her son saying maybe they’ll have her 10th anniversary clean and sober in the White House. The citizens were so much more eloquent than the professionals.​

And of course Sean O’Brien, head of the Teamsters, railing against corporate greed to a Republican convention whose delegates warmly applauded.​

And none of that was even the headline. The headline: This wasn’t a divided party, it was a party united. It wasn’t only Mr. Trump’s party, it was an explicitly Trumpian party.​

We saw something epochal: the finalization and ratification of a change in the essential nature of one of the two major political parties of the world’s most powerful nation. It is now a populist, working-class, nationalist party. That is where its sympathies, identification and affiliation lie. There will be shifts, stops and accommodations in the future, no party ever has a clear line, history intervenes, but it is changed, and there will be no going back.​

Read the whole thing.

https://archive.is/iAIlj

Every new conservative movement is a tacit admission of the previous movement's failure. The larger the swing, the bigger the admission.

This country has swung to the conservative side since 1980. And after 44 years and countless movements we're trying to make it great again, like the good ole' days when there were no conservatives in power.

The party of personal responsibility has none. No matter the condition it's always someone else's fault. Wash, rinse, repeat.

If Reagan was right, we wouldn't have Trump. Trump will be wrong too. A noun, a verb, and a tax cut.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Every new conservative movement is a tacit admission of the previous movement's failure. The larger the swing, the bigger the admission.

This country has swung to the conservative side since 1980. And after 44 years and countless movements we're trying to make it great again, like the good ole' days when there were no conservatives in power.

The party of personal responsibility has none. No matter the condition it's always someone else's fault. Wash, rinse, repeat.

If Reagan was right, we wouldn't have Trump. Trump will be wrong too. A noun, a verb, and a tax cut.

Yikes that’s quite a take from the party of transformative desires, the creation of the largest social safety net, gov expansion, wealth redistribution, and constant race-baiting victimization. Someone else’s fault… physician heal thyself….

 

[stollcpa]

Yikes that’s quite a take from the party of transformative desires, the creation of the largest social safety net, and constant race-baiting victimization. Someone else’s fault… physician heal thyself….

I was laughing my ass off thinking the same thing as I read his post.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I was laughing my ass off thinking the same thing as I read his post.

Mercy

 

[Digressions]

Yikes that’s quite a take from the party of transformative desires, the creation of the largest social safety net, gov expansion, wealth redistribution, and constant race-baiting victimization. Someone else’s fault… physician heal thyself….

Transformative desires: is relative.

Largest social safety net: there was a time when we didn't have one. That's why we have it. Churches were responsible for the sick and elderly. Franklin Graham et al won't go back, and is a large reason why the conservative movement was allowed to return.

Wealth redistribution: is a necessity. See the guilded age. The argument should be over the amount of redistribution. And should occur through wages and progressive tax structure. Taxes should be viewed as an economic instrument and not a tool to distribute fairness. It's about economic efficiency. (I've always been against cradle to grave welfare.)

 

[mcmurtry66]

Transformative desires: is relative.

Largest social safety net: there was a time when we didn't have one. That's why we have it. Churches were responsible for the sick and elderly. Franklin Graham et al won't go back, and is a large reason why the conservative movement was allowed to return.

Wealth redistribution: is a necessity. See the guilded age. The argument should be over the amount of redistribution. And should occur through wages and progressive tax structure. Taxes should be viewed as an economic instrument and not a tool to distribute fairness. It's about economic efficiency. (I've always been against cradle to grave welfare.)

I was responding to your party of personal responsibility has none and it’s always someone else’s fault misfire

 

[stollcpa]

Transformative desires: is relative.

Largest social safety net: there was a time when we didn't have one. That's why we have it. Churches were responsible for the sick and elderly. Franklin Graham et al won't go back, and is a large reason why the conservative movement was allowed to return.

Wealth redistribution: is a necessity. See the guilded age. The argument should be over the amount of redistribution. And should occur through wages and progressive tax structure. Taxes should be viewed as an economic instrument and not a tool to distribute fairness. It's about economic efficiency. (I've always been against cradle to grave welfare.)

What you describe used to be the Democrat Party. What happened? Pronouns, a woman isn’t a woman and a man isn’t a man.

 

[Digressions]

I was responding to your party of personal responsibility has none and it’s always someone else’s fault misfire

Well, I guess, just one party is full of hypocrites. 😁

 

[mcmurtry66]

Well, I guess, just one party is full of hypocrites. 😁

Nah they both are for sure. Just about different stuff

 

[Digressions]

What you describe used to be the Democrat Party. What happened? Pronouns, a woman isn’t a woman and a man isn’t a man.

No. The civil rights act of 1964.

Edit to add: Roe vs Wade

 

[Hoosier in Mad Town]

I’m looking forward to seeing all the old school conservatives champion tariffs. Things are too expensive in Biden’s America. So here’s a policy that will raise those prices.

I do like the subtle move away from some of the social conservative issues, but I can’t get onboard this populism train.

I’ll trade wars for tariffs.

Particularly if we reduce the burden of regulation that stifles our manufacturing at home.

 

[Hoosier in Mad Town]

Transformative desires: is relative.

Largest social safety net: there was a time when we didn't have one. That's why we have it. Churches were responsible for the sick and elderly. Franklin Graham et al won't go back, and is a large reason why the conservative movement was allowed to return.

Wealth redistribution: is a necessity. See the guilded age. The argument should be over the amount of redistribution. And should occur through wages and progressive tax structure. Taxes should be viewed as an economic instrument and not a tool to distribute fairness. It's about economic efficiency. (I've always been against cradle to grave welfare.)

I agree the church has to step up and quit retreating against a culture rot it’s ceded to the left.

 

[Bowlmania]

I agree the church has to step up and quit retreating against a culture rot it’s ceded to the left.

Church attendance is way down. Church membership is way down. A growing percentage of Americans identify as “no religious affiliation.” A growing percentage identify as atheist or agnostic. I’d love to hear what you believe the church needs to do to “step up” and why you believe anyone will listen.

 

[Digressions]

I agree the church has to step up and quit retreating against a culture rot it’s ceded to the left.

Liberty is one of the founding principles of conservatism. It's one of the cornerstone arguments for lower taxes.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Every new conservative movement is a tacit admission of the previous movement's failure. The larger the swing, the bigger the admission.

This country has swung to the conservative side since 1980. And after 44 years and countless movements we're trying to make it great again, like the good ole' days when there were no conservatives in power.

The party of personal responsibility has none. No matter the condition it's always someone else's fault. Wash, rinse, repeat.

If Reagan was right, we wouldn't have Trump. Trump will be wrong too. A noun, a verb, and a tax cut.

I think you are 100% incorrect. There is nothing new about conservatism shown by the GOP convention. What is new is the political and social environment in which conservatism operates.

The GOP swing towards individual populism is a ringing indictment of the group think, obedient, and cancel culture the left’s highly- credentialed know-things have given us.

The GOP, and Trump, are dragging us back to where individuals mean something and government of, by, and for the people also means something.

 

[UncleMark]

. . .has never been a Trump fan. Her conservatism is as genuine as her forthright honesty about politics. After noting she supported neither major party for the last two elections, she heralded the GOP convention (and by implication the party) as stupendous and a triumph.

She's also not voting for Trump, who this "stupendous" convention nominated:

I fully expect my third consecutive write-in this November, for the same reasons as stated in my 2020 column, plus the events of Jan. 6, 2021, and the attempt to overturn the results of the election, which was not a failure of “decorum” and “norms” but something else and, I believe, more sinister.​

 

[CO. Hoosier]

who this "stupendous" convention nominated:

I guess I’ll put you down for not understanding democracy.

 

[hookyIU1990]

She's also not voting for Trump, who this "stupendous" convention nominated:

I fully expect my third consecutive write-in this November, for the same reasons as stated in my 2020 column, plus the events of Jan. 6, 2021, and the attempt to overturn the results of the election, which was not a failure of “decorum” and “norms” but something else and, I believe, more sinister.​

But that and the main thrust of the column are not mutually exclusive.

I didn't watch the first minute of the convention in real time and have only watched snippets of a few things after the fact, with exception of the gold star families. I watched that in it's entirety.

For those who did watch, does she misreprent things?

 

[mcmurtry66]

But that and the main thrust of the column are not mutually exclusive.

I didn't watch the first minute of the convention in real time and have only watched snippets of a few things after the fact, with exception of the gold star families. I watched that in it's entirety.

For those who did watch, does she misreprent things?

I don’t know who she is and I didn’t read the article. I did watch a fair amount of the convention. Not the politicians other than trump and his grand daughter. She was a sweet kid. Trump is a terrible public speaker. If there are teleprompters it’s hard to believe because it feels like a stream of consciousness with an odd combo of too much adderall and edibles. His speech was awful.

Sometimes the messenger matters more than the message. I read comments belittling the hulkster and Dana white. That’s odd to me. They are great Americans. How much joy have they brought to people. Helped economies. Contributed to employment. And embodied that fighting spirit. Trump said fight fight fight. He brought in two fighters.

Hulk is probably one of the most recognized people in the world. Had nothing. Talked the Brisco brothers into getting hiro to let him train to try to get into Florida regional wresting. He’d wrestle 400 times a year. Was in six plane crashes. Countless ortho surgeries. Lost half his earnings in a divorce. Just keeps fighting.

Dana white. Boxing trainer in vegas. Befriended a fellow boxing fan who he trained fertitta whose pop was a casino executive. Talked them into buying ufc. Built something huge from it. Fighting all the way and saying what he believes not woke filtered nonsense.

Fighting Americans. Trump hulk Dana white. That’s America and trump played it perfectly save his own speech

 

[BadWakeboarder]

I don’t know who she is and I didn’t read the article. I did watch a fair amount of the convention. Not the politicians other than trump and his grand daughter. She was a sweet kid. Trump is a terrible public speaker. If there are teleprompters it’s hard to believe because it feels like a stream of consciousness with an odd combo of too much adderall and edibles. His speech was awful.

Sometimes the messenger matters more than the message. I read comments belittling the hulkster and Dana white. That’s odd to me. They are great Americans. How much joy have they brought to people. Helped economies. Contributed to employment. And embodied that fighting spirit. Trump said fight fight fight. He brought in two fighters.

Hulk is probably one of the most recognized people in the world. Had nothing. Talked the Brisco brothers into getting hiro to let him train to try to get into Florida regional wresting. He’d wrestle 400 times a year. Was in six plane crashes. Lost half his earnings in a divorce. Just keeps fighting.

Dana white. Boxing trainer in vegas. Befriended a fellow boxing fan who he trained fertitta whose pop was a casino executive. Talked them into buying ufc. Built something huge from it. Fighting all the way and saying what he believes not woke filtered nonsense.

Fighting Americans. Trump hulk Dana white. That’s America and trump played it perfectly save his own speech

Don’t forget Hogan’s greatest accomplishment: bankrupting a terrible faux-journalism site and leading to the consecutive bankrupting of its sister sites.

#GawkerSucks

 

[mcmurtry66]

Don’t forget Hogan’s greatest accomplishment: bankrupting a terrible faux-journalism site and leading to the consecutive bankrupting of its sister sites.

#GawkerSucks

Yes!!

 

[UncleMark]

I don’t know who she is and I didn’t read the article.

Speechwriter for Reagan, most famous for the "...slipped the surly bonds of earth and kissed the face of God" line in his speech about the Challenger explosion. Been a commentator and NYT columnist for ages since. She's good.

 

[Digressions]

I think you are 100% incorrect. There is nothing new about conservatism shown by the GOP convention. What is new is the political and social environment in which conservatism operates.

The GOP swing towards individual populism is a ringing indictment of the group think, obedient, and cancel culture the left’s highly- credentialed know-things have given us.

The GOP, and Trump, are dragging us back to where individuals mean something and government of, by, and for the people also means something.

"Convention". I see what you did there. That's a narrow and low bar. There's a reason George Will, Bill Kristol, ect. left long before Jan 6th.

Your 2nd paragraph: The left, and/or any liberal policy, didn't turn George Will into a never-trumper. MAGA did that. Reagan struck a deal with MAGA for the 3 G's, and they both got what they wanted. The problem is Reagan economic policies left MAGA behind. MAGA outnumber Reaganites inside the party and that's where we're at today.

The math on individual Republicans is just as simple:
Will= Principles > Ambition
Vance=Ambition > Principles
Noonan = trying to thread a needle that doesn't exist.

 

[ribbont]

I’m looking forward to seeing all the old school conservatives champion tariffs. Things are too expensive in Biden’s America. So here’s a policy that will raise those prices.

I do like the subtle move away from some of the social conservative issues, but I can’t get onboard this populism train.

So, as a conservative, I MUST agree with EVERYTHING Trump does? I can't disagree with ANY policies? Umm...ok.

 

[twenty02]

I don’t know who she is and I didn’t read the article. I did watch a fair amount of the convention. Not the politicians other than trump and his grand daughter. She was a sweet kid. Trump is a terrible public speaker. If there are teleprompters it’s hard to believe because it feels like a stream of consciousness with an odd combo of too much adderall and edibles. His speech was awful.

Sometimes the messenger matters more than the message. I read comments belittling the hulkster and Dana white. That’s odd to me. They are great Americans. How much joy have they brought to people. Helped economies. Contributed to employment. And embodied that fighting spirit. Trump said fight fight fight. He brought in two fighters.

Hulk is probably one of the most recognized people in the world. Had nothing. Talked the Brisco brothers into getting hiro to let him train to try to get into Florida regional wresting. He’d wrestle 400 times a year. Was in six plane crashes. Countless ortho surgeries. Lost half his earnings in a divorce. Just keeps fighting.

Dana white. Boxing trainer in vegas. Befriended a fellow boxing fan who he trained fertitta whose pop was a casino executive. Talked them into buying ufc. Built something huge from it. Fighting all the way and saying what he believes not woke filtered nonsense.

Fighting Americans. Trump hulk Dana white. That’s America and trump played it perfectly save his own speech

Don't know who Peggy Noonan is? Been living under a rock last 40 years?

 

[mcmurtry66]

Don't know who Peggy Noonan is? Been living under a rock last 40 years?

Limited attention span. I can tell you about the genesis of most of your regional wrestling outlets

 

[Cortez88]

Limited attention span. I can tell you about the genesis of most of your regional wrestling outlets

Checks out

 

[CO. Hoosier]

"Convention". I see what you did there. That's a narrow and low bar. There's a reason George Will, Bill Kristol, ect. left long before Jan 6th.

Your 2nd paragraph: The left, and/or any liberal policy, didn't turn George Will into a never-trumper. MAGA did that. Reagan struck a deal with MAGA for the 3 G's, and they both got what they wanted. The problem is Reagan economic policies left MAGA behind. MAGA outnumber Reaganites inside the party and that's where we're at today.

The math on individual Republicans is just as simple:
Will= Principles > Ambition
Vance=Ambition > Principles
Noonan = trying to thread a needle that doesn't exist.

Some people see politics as people. Others see politics as ideas. People come and go. Ideas endure.

Several smart people, including Republicans on this board, have stated Trump is doing permanent damage to the party and country. I couldn’t disagree more. Trump’s personality has the staying power of an ice cube on the pavement on a 100 degree day.

Trumps‘s influence on present day GOP isn’t nearly as great as the myriad of influences pushing the GOP towards individual populism. Trump exploits it, amplifies it, and uses it. He is good at it.

I think Will is blinded by Trump’s BS. Krystal too, but I’d expect that from him.

Noonan said this way.

But I strongly believe that in my profession and as far as you are able you must not let your views and convictions become cataracts over your eyes that cloud your vision. You have to see as clearly as you can and say what you see. And you must be alive to the spirit of things, and their meaning.​

​

There is much more to see if one looks past Trump.

I don’t understand your second paragraph.

 

[Digressions]

Some people see politics as people. Others see politics as ideas. People come and go. Ideas endure.

Several smart people, including Republicans on this board, have stated Trump is doing permanent damage to the party and country. I couldn’t disagree more. Trump’s personality has the staying power of an ice cube on the pavement on a 100 degree day.

Trumps‘s influence on present day GOP isn’t nearly as great as the myriad of influences pushing the GOP towards individual populism. Trump exploits it, amplifies it, and uses it. He is good at it.

I think Will is blinded by Trump’s BS. Krystal too, but I’d expect that from him.

Noonan said this way.

But I strongly believe that in my profession and as far as you are able you must not let your views and convictions become cataracts over your eyes that cloud your vision. You have to see as clearly as you can and say what you see. And you must be alive to the spirit of things, and their meaning.​

​

There is much more to see if one looks past Trump.

I don’t understand your second paragraph.

I agree entirely.

My second paragraph is in response to your second paragraph. In your second paragraph you blame the left for the swing to individual populism. That is backwards in my view.

I hope you're doing well, CO.

 

[Cortez88]

Some people see politics as people. Others see politics as ideas. People come and go. Ideas endure.

Several smart people, including Republicans on this board, have stated Trump is doing permanent damage to the party and country. I couldn’t disagree more. Trump’s personality has the staying power of an ice cube on the pavement on a 100 degree day.

Trumps‘s influence on present day GOP isn’t nearly as great as the myriad of influences pushing the GOP towards individual populism. Trump exploits it, amplifies it, and uses it. He is good at it.

I think Will is blinded by Trump’s BS. Krystal too, but I’d expect that from him.

Noonan said this way.

But I strongly believe that in my profession and as far as you are able you must not let your views and convictions become cataracts over your eyes that cloud your vision. You have to see as clearly as you can and say what you see. And you must be alive to the spirit of things, and their meaning.​

​

There is much more to see if one looks past Trump.

I don’t understand your second paragraph.

Seems like not agreeing to a peaceful transfer of power in 2021 was big deal, no?

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

I’m looking forward to seeing all the old school conservatives champion tariffs. Things are too expensive in Biden’s America. So here’s a policy that will raise those prices.

I do like the subtle move away from some of the social conservative issues, but I can’t get onboard this populism train.

God I hate Tariffs. Yet Biden's were even worse than Trump's! He didn't roll back anything and actually enhanced them.

When can we get back to politicians with a shred of common sense?

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I hope you're doing well, CO.

Still vertical.

Thanks.

 

[Hoosier in Mad Town]

Church attendance is way down. Church membership is way down. A growing percentage of Americans identify as “no religious affiliation.” A growing percentage identify as atheist or agnostic. I’d love to hear what you believe the church needs to do to “step up” and why you believe anyone will listen.

Mainstream denominations are dying because they stopped teaching what is actually in the Bible.

Non-denominations are booming because people want truth. We are planting churches all over in every city, town, state and people are flocking to basic expository teaching rather than TED talks that blasphemies Gods Word.

 

[cosmickid]

But that and the main thrust of the column are not mutually exclusive.

I didn't watch the first minute of the convention in real time and have only watched snippets of a few things after the fact, with exception of the gold star families. I watched that in it's entirety.

For those who did watch, does she misreprent things?

Maybe she doesn't want to live in a world where Hulkamania runs rampant...

 

[hookyIU1990]

Maybe she doesn't want to live in a world where Hulkamania runs rampant...

Who does?