OT - Since this Site Seems to Have a Hyperabundance of Medical/Constitutional Experts...
- Thread starter rikki-tikka-tava
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That would make it opaque to you.
I'd already watched it when I made the post he references, and despite a number of inherent flaws and fallacies in his presentation/logic, it's part of what got me re-thinking mask mandates and prompted the post in the first place.
You seem to believe that 'facts' are the same as what one wants to be true. Not the case, and until and unless you manage to impartially entertain/accept truths that run counter to your wishes, you declare nothing so much as the brainlessness you love attributing to others.
Having yet to demonstrate any capacity for critical thinking/reason, it's uncertain that you could put together a cogent argument or proof if your life depended on it. S'lright, you be you Kitty - you may never be an intellectual giant but there are other parts of your anatomy (think lower GI tract) that appear to be truly enormous.
What would you say to the unvaccinated if their reason for not getting vaccinated is based on their doctor’s recommendation.
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If they have a medical reason not to get vaccinated, that’s one thing. Otherwise, I’d certainly get a second opinion, since over 96% of medical doctors themselves are vaccinated.
And the organization will also be forced to deal with the consequences.
1) VA Health will add significant numbers to it's participants.
2) military units will suffer loss of troops, many units will be unable to complete their mission
3) the overall military will suffer decreased operational readiness due to loss of highly specialized troops. Re-Training for those positions will be overwhelmed, less effective, and slow to respond.
4) recruiting will become even more difficult than it is now
You can create a similar list for civilian organizations who mandate.
The COS is no leader...he's a political buffoon puppet who damaged morale by announcing his mandate to force troops to take an unapproved vaccine.
My bad. I posted it as OT in response to the discussion creeping into so many BB threads. Will say much of it has been civil and informative, for my part have shifted to believing that mandating vaccinations is pointless since it 'seems' with the new 'delta' variant to have little effect on diminishing transmission rates. Though as yet that's far from certain, still believe masking and social distancing have a role to play w.r.t. diminishing the threat to children who are not yet cleared/eligible for vaccinations. As for adults that don't want to get vaccinated, well, it's their funeral.
1) Illogical BS.
2) Unsupported and paranoid conjecture especially as troops and units once vaccinated will become largely impervious to the virus and better able to ensure operational readiness.
3) See previous.
4) Likely of negligible consequence.
Agree you can doubtless create any number of simalar BS lists. Pretty clear who the real "buffoon" is.
Everyone irate about abortion but never want to help the poor or those in need.
Not debating you on abortion, but appears you are painting a broad brush. I'm sure there are as many or more pro-abortion folks that can be included, correct? Generally, helping the poor or those in need has nothing to do with your stance on abortion.
1) Fact. Veterans that separate with admin discharge are eligible for VA healthcare. Immediately in many cases.
2) You are ignorant about the military and how units function. If a fighter squadron were to lose two of its mechanics they'd be grounded.
3) See previous
4) > 50% of US Army have refused the vaccine. Would they have joined knowing that they'd be forced to take it? Yep, negligable.
Don't speak to things you have zero knowledge of. Fool.
1) They're going to eventually be eligible anyway if they aren't already.
2) Maybe that's why the intent is to phase in the requirement over time. How would it be any different if they get sick with Covid and can't function or die? Or did you forget that the aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt was docked in Guam for two months because 1200 crewmen caught Covid?
3) Same.
4) Wrong. Among active-duty troops, 68 percent have received at least one dose, and as of two days ago about 64 percent of the 1.3 million active-duty service members are fully vaccinated, and climbing fast. Many naval vessels have already reached 100%.
What is it about combat readiness you don't understand? Oh right, everything.
What, it wasn't suffciently implied? Anyway, it was already taken. Strong affinity for originality.
actually, i'd say there is a lot more correlation than you want to admit.
that said, abortion and immigration are both way more complex than those on either side want to admit.
that said, abortion and immigration are often near single issue determinants for a big swath of Pub loyalists, while less so with Dems.
that said, if abortion is ever made illegal, i could easily see which side it's more a single issue determinant with being reversed.
probably why Pubs and Pub supremes never make it happen, but always keep their loyal base thinking it's just over the next hill if you just stay with us this upcoming election.
the whole key to the carrot/stick thing, is never let the donkey get the carrot.
I'd say I know quite a lot about combat readiness, considering I'm a campaign medal recipient.
1) They won't be eligible all at once, and some won't ever be eligible. If there are large numbers of separation then it could overload an already overloaded system.
2) Getting sick and unable to perform your duties is a whole lot different than gone for good. Military training for specialist jobs take many months.
3) Same
4) Guess the Marine Corps Commandant disagrees with you...guess he understands nothing about this as well
Now tell me what your military background is gomer
Have all the men's basketball team been fully vaccinated yet? Coaches & staff? Administration? I'm for the masks, full vaccinations & any precautions necessary to ensure the optimum health of all. I first got Covid-19 in April of 2020. It nearly killed me twice in four days. I have had serious heart problems since birth, & serious immune system problems since birth as well....here's a bone. Have fun. 🍎
Challenge to Indiana University vaccine mandate reaches Supreme Court
A lawyer representing Indiana University students asked the Supreme Court Friday to block the school's vaccine mandate that is set to take effect this fall while the appeals process plays out.www.cnn.com
My worst symptom (which I still occasionally get) from Covid-19, was my brain swelling up inside my head. This is a very scary feeling, when you first get it, & every time you experience it. To the unvaccinated, who choose not to be vaccinated/protected, if you won't do it for yourself, please do it for your parents, grandparents, teachers, sick neighbors & acquaintances, casual acquaintances, coworkers, & all who might not survive your Covid-19, in their fragile systems & bodies. To date, the CDC & WHO have cataloged over 200 symptoms associated with Covid-19.
Just do it
Common Sense
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Even more than the Joint Chiefs it seems. "Campaign medal recipient", eh? Well done. Really. How many of those have been handed out? Wasn't it something like 2.8 million just for Iraq and Afghanistan? You've come by your opinions honestly but it's not like overseas service is a small club that makes whatever you say gospel or more astute than any other, what was that word you used, oh yeah, 'gomer'.
By MC Commandant you mean this guy?
Yep, he looks dead-set against vaccination. Anyway, seems premature for doom and gloom scenarios given the rapid rise in vaccinations - I mean the percentage of vaccinated US service personnel seems to have jumped from less than 50% to 68% (with at least one vaccination) just since we started this discussion. 🍏
Happy to revisit this in a few weeks and see how things are shaking out, am not at all certain that the mandate will actually ever be implemented. Have no military service record but do have a fairly informed sense of administrative/logistic/personnel requirements for military campaigns. Began when I was 10 with the two-volume West Point Atlas of American Wars and a lot of subsequent reading that continues to this day. Freely concede that there is no real comparison between any of that and 'being there', but it's going to take more than pithy one-liners to convince me that the Pentagon doesn't know exactly what they're doing and why. Not as if that gang has a history of acting rapidly or capriciously w.r.t. to instituting policy change, so pardon me if in the absence of a more cogent/compelling dissent, I allow for the possibility that vaccination is indeed in the best interests of the US military and its preparedness.
You call me out for having zero knowledge of combat readiness and then downplay the significance of being in theatre...after you've read a couple books.
You're a real douche.
You're a real douche.
Guess you missed this part:
And for the record, it's more like two or three hundred. You?
Every statistic you cited was false by a wide margin and the only source you cited to corroborate your take is featured above getting vaccinated and encouraging all Marines to do the same. How exactly does that support you having a better grasp of CR than the JCoS?
Disease has ravaged more armies throughout history and thwarted/compromised more campaigns than any and perhaps all other causes combined. Did you to happen learn that "in theatre"? Or that "Getting sick and (being) unable to perform your duties is a whole lot different than gone for good"? has the same effect in a combat situation except that it's actually worse because manpower and logistic support is required to care for the victims and there's no lead time for contingency planning. How about that modern unit size is predicated on and designed so as to withstand a certain level of personnel loss resulting from combat while still maintaining operational effectiveness but not a level of loss from combat and disease combined? Disease also has a way of ravaging command infrastructure in ways that cannot be countered by field disposition, bunkers or enhanced security. But you know all this because you were "in theatre". I'll just bet.
You got the douche part wrong as well - with you my function is much more akin to an enema.
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Dont get me started in your hypocritical ideology. I don't really have a stance of abortion,so this isn't something that is near and dear. However,don't you idiots think it's funny how you try to ban guns because "guns kill people",yet you are pro choice,which kills way more? It really is hilarious,the level of stupidity most democrats(not saying you,as I don't know for sure,but I am sure you will tell me,lol) are on.
Uh....have you not seen that there is a spike in cases right now....among those vaccinated! Why isn't there a vaccine for the flu? Why isn't there a vaccine for the common cold? But they came up with one for covid in months? Cmon man....do some research...the vaccine is a false safety.
There is a vaccine (multiple) for the flu/Spanish Influenza. You can get one of several strains/vaccine strains every year. Are you kidding? The common cold isn't half as deadly as the flu or Covid-19 & it's variants/strains. The CDC/WHO has to date cataloged over 200 different symptoms of Covid-19, & counting. There is a spike now, because the CDC still hasn't fully approved getting children 12 & under vaccinated. Studies have shown, whether you get Covid-19 for the first time, or get it after having been previously vaccinated for it, you stand a much better survival rate if you get vaccinated.
Do as you wish, but when your parents, grandparents, the sick, elderly & others start to get sick & die around you, just keep on keeping on, slaughtering those who have little or no chance with survival/being near you.
It's all on you & yours
Typhoid Mary
Go ahead... believe everything they tell you. Science(which they are ignoring) is what I choose. Do some research. The cdc is only there to make you feel good,while they ignore the science they paid to have done/tested, sits in the corner. Wake up snowflake
Just do us/concerned citizens/patriotic Americans one favor, visit t(R)ump early & often from now on, capiche? Btw, don't worry about washing your hands, getting vaccinated or wearing those useless masks. You know better.
:O
2024 will thank you for it
Doc Survival
Masks are pointless....that's why people who wear them still get covid. Why don't we wear masks to prevent the flu?Just do us/concerned citizens/patriotic Americans one favor, visit t(R)ump early & often from now on, capiche? Btw, don't worry about washing your hands, getting vaccinated or wearing those useless masks. You know better.
:O
2024 will thank you for it
Doc Survival
I read your posts and I see no indication that you believe in...let alone follow Science.
School mask debate in Tennessee grows heated as local board requires masks in elementary schools | CNN
Heated arguments spilled into the parking lot Tuesday night after a school board in a suburban Tennessee county approved a temporary requirement for masks in elementary schools due to the Covid-19 pandemic.
Talk about a tempest in a teapot. Would think they passed a mandate permitting children to be kidnapped rather than something as benign as a temporary requirement to wear masks.
Taking a time-out until tip-off - the choir competition is wearing thin.
I think if we dial back the hyperbole a little bit there are some basic things that everyone should agree on. One, masks do very little to prevent the transmission of the virus UNLESS you’re talking about N95 masks which very few people have. Two, the vaccines do not consistently prevent infection and transmission of the virus but they mitigate the symptoms and increase the odds that you won’t die or be hospitalized. Three, vaccinated people are certainly getting COVID, an even smaller amount are being hospitalized, and an infinitesimal number are even dying but it is not a “spike” among vaccinated people and nothing remotely approaching a majority. The bottom line is that there is some underlying truth in what everyone is saying but you’re twisting it and taking it to extremes to fit your narratives.
Ennhhhh . . . would the gentleman from Florida or Louisiana of Scotch-Irish descent care to amend his remarks according to the suggestions above?
It's airborne...and can travel through masks...but people who aren't wearing masks are passing it on?....makes perfect sense...smh
Agree with your first sentence, if not the specifics of what you present as 'consensus'.
While masks don't prevent transmission, saying they "do very little to prevent" transmission is patently false. They are far from foolproof (especially when worn incorrectly), but this peer-reviewed study from the AAAS study found:
"...most environments and contacts are under conditions of low virus abundance (virus-limited), where surgical masks are effective at preventing virus spread. More-advanced masks and other protective equipment are required in potentially virus-rich indoor environments, including medical centers and hospitals. Masks are particularly effective in combination with other preventive measures like ventilation and distancing."
Science | AAAS
science.sciencemag.org
Similarly, the vaccines do not prevent infection as you state, but data indicates they do reduce infection rates. This, "...vaccination confers an eight-fold reduction in the risk of getting infected in the first place", from:
https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/93928
And, "The COVID-19 case rate for unvaccinated Santa Clara County residents is nearly four times higher than for those who have been vaccinated". from:
COVID infection rate greater among unvaccinated people, counties find
A new dashboard shows the seven-day daily average of COVID-19 case rates in Santa Clara County for the overall population, unvaccinated residents and fully vaccinated residents.
www.paloaltoonline.com
While far from definitive, given the likelihood that some vaccinated individuals who become infected have no symptoms and hence do not get tested, at present it appears that being vaccinated does reduce infection rates, and consequently Covid transmission rates as well.
Your third point re: risk among those who have been vaccinated is spot on.
As for the last, the "bottom line" is not that there is "some underlying truth in what everyone is saying" - some of what has been posted is complete BS. So while I appreciate the spirit of reconciliation in your post and the attempt to find common ground, there is nothing constructive about indulging fools that have little or no interest in what is true or not and even less in finding common ground.
Since I tumbled back into this, I reckon my version of a frame of common reference is pretty simple: Masks are good, vaccinations are good, and both is better. IMO at this point it's mostly about kids under 12 who are being hospitalized in record numbers because the delta variant is more virulent. Given the high mutation rate among RNA viruses like Covid-19 and the elevated risk observed in the Delta variant, it would seem reasonable and judicious to consider that one or more future variants will prove to be even more contagious and/or lethal. Since the vaccines have proven to be effective against Covid in all its present forms, pretty strong case to be made for vaccinating schoolchildren as soon as it is deemed safe to do so. Clinical trials using volunteers are already underway, so lest anyone imagine that the ridiculous scene linked above from a TN school-board hearing involving a vote to temporarily require masks in public schools (it passed) represents some plateau for foolishness, just wait...
Actually, the main purpose of these masks, is to protect others from getting what you/the mask wearer has, not the other way around. The main purpose of these masks, it to keep your germs/viruses, near(er) you. That is why, when you sneeze or cough, you either cover your nose/mouth, or sneeze/cough away from others.
Sincerely
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