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OT - Since this Site Seems to Have a Hyperabundance of Medical/Constitutional Experts...

rikki-tikka-tava

rikki-tikka-tava

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Jul 17, 2002
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rikki-tikka-tava said:
...here's a bone. Have fun. 🍎


www.cnn.com

Challenge to Indiana University vaccine mandate reaches Supreme Court

A lawyer representing Indiana University students asked the Supreme Court Friday to block the school's vaccine mandate that is set to take effect this fall while the appeals process plays out.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
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Seems like the university is operating in the interests of the majority/the greater good. Those who can't/won't get vaxxed still have a way to attend.

Old Joltin' Joe Biden is all for getting vaxxed, don't know why this is a problem at a liberal university.

I think the court said it all: These plaintiffs just need to wear a mask and be tested, requirements that are not constitutionally problematic. Those who do not want to be vaccinated may go elsewhere.

Of course, as CNN dutifully noted, the judges were all republican appointees.
 
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Probably what Jim Bopp wanted all along. The man loves taking cases that give him publicity
 
SouthBendJim said:
Seems like the university is operating in the interests of the majority/the greater good. Those who can't/won't get vaxxed still have a way to attend.

Old Joltin' Joe Biden is all for getting vaxxed, don't know why this is a problem at a liberal university.

I think the court said it all: These plaintiffs just need to wear a mask and be tested, requirements that are not constitutionally problematic. Those who do not want to be vaccinated may go elsewhere.

Of course, as CNN dutifully noted, the judges were all republican appointees.
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They can wear masks and get tested, take classes online, sit out, or go somewhere else. It’s not like they don’t have options.
 
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SoccerSammy said:
I just wish people would forget the politics and just get the vaccine. Masks = useless, vaccine = end of COVID. Ask Polio and Smallpox what they think
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I agree with everything you're saying here. I got the vaccine about the first day I was able. It took me some effort to talk my wife into it (which is interesting considering the politicization, as I'm mostly Republican and she's mostly a Dem). But she finally gave in and is glad she did.

But I'm not surprised that so many people are resisting, if not refusing, getting the vaccine. And some of the people I know who haven't gotten it are hardly political cranks or just generally off-center. Yeah, in some cases they think the virus is overhyped hysteria. But usually I've found that they're just cautious about putting something rushed to market into their veins -- and have what is not an irrational concern about potential long-term side effects.

Personally, I think it's worth the risk. The choice between a fairly good chance at death and the possibility of a side effect down the road seems like it has Hobson's name written all over it. But you'd be surprised how many I've talked to who have more fear of the latter than the former.
 
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SoccerSammy said:
I just wish people would forget the politics and just get the vaccine. Masks = useless, vaccine = end of COVID. Ask Polio and Smallpox what they think
Click to expand...
if masks are useless, why did IU just mandate that they must be worn inside by ALL (including those who are vax'd? which according to IU, should now be everyone..)? Just as my Gov of my (current) home state of IL did?

I got the vax so I could stop wearing the stupid masks. I'm willing to tape my vax card to my forehead if it means no more mask. But now the rules have changed and that no longer seems to be the CDC's approach.

Fauci already warning us of the next variant to come. I find that a little odd. Seems like this is never going to end regardless of vax's and masks.

Maybe someday we'll get re-interested in confirming just how the hell we got into this mess in the first place. Otherwise...what stops it from happening again in 5, 10 yrs when the next patient zero emerges in China? (via natural event or lab screwup...believe what you wish).
 
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Chicago-bound Hoosier said:
if masks are useless, why did IU just mandate that they must be worn inside by ALL (including those who are vax'd? which according to IU, should now be everyone..)? Just as my Gov of my (current) home state of IL did?

I got the vax so I could stop wearing the stupid masks. I'm willing to tape my vax card to my forehead if it means no more mask. But now the rules have changed and that no longer seems to be the CDC's approach.

Fauci already warning us of the next variant to come. I find that a little odd. Seems like this is never going to end regardless of vax's and masks.

Maybe someday we'll get re-interested in confirming just how the hell we got into this mess in the first place. Otherwise...what stops it from happening again in 5, 10 yrs when the next patient zero emerges in China? (via natural event or lab screwup...believe what you wish).
Click to expand...

From the one extensive study I glanced at some time late last year, it seemed that the masks gave some moderate reduction in transmissibility. As I recall, it was a study of frontline healthcare workers at a large medical institution -- some 22,000 subjects.

It found that the chances of transmission with close contact were ~17% with no mask, ~13% with a surgical mask, and ~10% with an N95 mask.

So I wouldn't call masks "useless". But I would say that they're of pretty limited benefit -- especially if you aren't using the heavy duty mask....that very, very few people use.
 
crazed_hoosier2 said:
From the one extensive study I glanced at some time late last year, it seemed that the masks gave some moderate reduction in transmissibility. As I recall, it was a study of frontline healthcare workers at a large medical institution -- some 22,000 subjects.

It found that the chances of transmission with close contact were ~17% with no mask, ~13% with a surgical mask, and ~10% with an N95 mask.

So I wouldn't call masks "useless". But I would say that they're of pretty limited benefit -- especially if you aren't using the heavy duty mask....that very, very few people use.
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bingo...most of these masks are just 'check the box' items. Fashion items, virtue signals...whatever. I've been on many flights over the past 2 months and while everyone has on a mask, most are superficial props with no real protective qualities. Did that study include any data on the need to wear a mask if you are vax'd?
 
SIhoosier26 said:
"Fairly good chance at death"?
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Yep.

Our case-fatality rate in the US is 1.7%. While that sounds low, it's all a matter of context.

If we had a 1.7% chance of dying every time we got into a car -- 1 in 60 car rides resulted in death -- we'd consider driving a very dangerous endeavor.

So, yeah, I'd say there's a fairly good chance at death.
 
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Chicago-bound Hoosier said:
bingo...most of these masks are just 'check the box' items. Fashion items, virtue signals...whatever. I've been on many flights over the past 2 months and while everyone has on a mask, most are superficial props with no real protective qualities. Did that study include any data on the need to wear a mask if you are vax'd?
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It was done well before the vaccine was available.

The funny thing is: some people saw that study as proof that masks were effective. Others saw is as masks being useless.

The truth, as it often is, is somewhere in between. Is there some benefit? Yeah. But it's minor -- and certainly not worth all the hullabaloo.
 
crazed_hoosier2 said:
Yep.

Our case-fatality rate in the US is 1.7%. While that sounds low, it's all a matter of context.

If we had a 1.7% chance of dying every time we got into a car -- 1 in 60 car rides resulted in death -- we'd consider driving a very dangerous endeavor.

So, yeah, I'd say there's a fairly good chance at death.
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If 1% = "fairly good chance" according to you then we're just going to have to agree to disagree.
 
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crazed_hoosier2 said:
Yep.

Our case-fatality rate in the US is 1.7%. While that sounds low, it's all a matter of context.

If we had a 1.7% chance of dying every time we got into a car -- 1 in 60 car rides resulted in death -- we'd consider driving a very dangerous endeavor.

So, yeah, I'd say there's a fairly good chance at death.
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does that number include the nursing home deaths? Because if it does, then the numbers are skewed. There was gross mismanagement in NY, NJ and other places early on that led to tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths.
 
crazed_hoosier2 said:
Yep.

Our case-fatality rate in the US is 1.7%. While that sounds low, it's all a matter of context.

If we had a 1.7% chance of dying every time we got into a car -- 1 in 60 car rides resulted in death -- we'd consider driving a very dangerous endeavor.

So, yeah, I'd say there's a fairly good chance at death.
Click to expand...

Not to mention the prospect of getting long covid, which at this point is unquantifiable. Few people seem to want to mention long covid as a potential consequence along with the death rate. Long covid is real.
 
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crazed_hoosier2 said:
It was done well before the vaccine was available.

The funny thing is: some people saw that study as proof that masks were effective. Others saw is as masks being useless.

The truth, as it often is, is somewhere in between. Is there some benefit? Yeah. But it's minor -- and certainly not worth all the hullabaloo.
Click to expand...
yeah I would have expected the results using N95 masks to be several multiples higher than going maskless.
 
SIhoosier26 said:
I used to think so, now not so much.
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From what I've heard, from a very good source, almost all of the hospitalizations happening right now are unvaccinated people.

There seem to be a lot of breakthrough cases -- maybe a bit more than were anticipated...which probably isn't surprising given the viral evolution. But very few of the breakthroughs are resulting in hospitalizations, much less death.

Pay less attention to the cases right now than the hospitalizations and deaths. We knew there would be breakthroughs as the virus mutated. But if getting Covid is about as off-putting as getting the seasonal flu, that's definitely progress.
 
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SIhoosier26 said:
If 1% = "fairly good chance" according to you then we're just going to have to agree to disagree.
Click to expand...
Like I said, it's all a matter of context. Is it pancreatic cancer? No. But, so far as viral outbreaks are concerned, that is a very concerning number. Go compare it to other outbreaks we've read about over the years.

Consider my car analogy. Would you thoughtlessly hop in a car, put your kids in there with you, if you knew that 1 out of every 60 times you did, somebody was going to die?

That matters because lots and lots of people drive every day. The Covid death rate is a big deal because tens of millions of Americans have been infected. Pancreatic cancer has a much higher case fatality rate, obviously. But relatively few people get it.
 
According to the Indiana Covid Dashboard, Monroe county has had zero deaths under the age of 50.

If you look at Monroe plus Tippecanoe county, the two have combined to have 19 deaths under the age of 60 in close to a year and a half of virus. Those same two counties combined for 19 car crash deaths in 2019.

I was sent this info by my niece a couple of days ago. She is about to start her junior year and is frustrated with the situation.

Of course she is aware that there is more to it than the under 60 population. That being said, I was shocked by those numbers... I mean totally shocked.

Anyway... back to it
 
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bailey777 said:
That is correct but the leftists sure will eat you alive for that statement
They would force jab you if they could find you.
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Couldn't care less if you're vaccinated (and suspect many would prefer you hold out for a Darwin Award) but you're in desperate need of a military-grade colonic.
 
crazed_hoosier2 said:
From the one extensive study I glanced at some time late last year, it seemed that the masks gave some moderate reduction in transmissibility. As I recall, it was a study of frontline healthcare workers at a large medical institution -- some 22,000 subjects.

It found that the chances of transmission with close contact were ~17% with no mask, ~13% with a surgical mask, and ~10% with an N95 mask.

So I wouldn't call masks "useless". But I would say that they're of pretty limited benefit -- especially if you aren't using the heavy duty mask....that very, very few people use.
Click to expand...
Masks reduce transmission via droplets from the mouths for the infected so if they wear a mask the likelihood is reduced. But in terms of the masks usually worn by people the size of the virus particles easily goes through the "mesh" of the types of masks CDC wants us to wear. Think of the heads of pin needles and a chain link fence. So technically they might offer some very minimal protection, but very minimal.

The larger question is that for fatality rates as low as they are for most segments of the population, why does everybody have to wear a mask? Why should little children have to get vaccinated if the fatality rate for children under age 12 is infinitesimally small? If the vaccine works then why do vaccinated people have to wear a mask? So if masks are required, then logically the vaccine doesn't work? If the vaccine doesn't work, then why does everybody need to get vaccinated? If the vaccine doesn't work on the Delta variant then are we all back to square one and have to start 2020 all over again? But, how do we know the Delta variant is the cause? Is there a reliable test for the Delta variant? In fact, are the "cases" being identified by the previous testing vehicles which reports said couldn't differentiate between one coronavirus versus another? These are the questions being asked by the unvaccinated. Also don't attack me, I got my two shots (Pfizer) I'm just telling you what these folks ask. Even I'd like the answers to them not couched in "failure to get the vaccine creates the environment for mutations to occur" because mutations of viruses occur naturally and don't rely on a vaccine being present in potential hosts or not. This is just known science. But I may be off base here, I admit it, since I still believe people are born with either xx or xy chromosomes that determines gender.
 
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crazed_hoosier2 said:
Like I said, it's all a matter of context. Is it pancreatic cancer? No. But, so far as viral outbreaks are concerned, that is a very concerning number. Go compare it to other outbreaks we've read about over the years.

Consider my car analogy. Would you thoughtlessly hop in a car, put your kids in there with you, if you knew that 1 out of every 60 times you did, somebody was going to die?

That matters because lots and lots of people drive every day. The Covid death rate is a big deal because tens of millions of Americans have been infected. Pancreatic cancer has a much higher case fatality rate, obviously. But relatively few people get it.
Click to expand...
1.7% is now 1 in 60?

Either way Covid is very real and I'm not saying it's not. Also businesses should have the right to make vaccinations mandatory for their employees if they so wish. That said, this has to end somewhere. We've went from man eating virus, to isolation, to masks, and now the vaccine yet that's still not enough.

This has to end somewhere, things HAVE to get back to normal. We only live once, and people wasting valuable years hiding from the world on the advice of crooked politicians and because "Good Morning America" told them to is beyond ridiculous.

Again, not saying it's not real but we have a vaccine now. When is it going to be enough?
 
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