Unfortunately facts and civic responsibility won't change their minds.
OT - Since this Site Seems to Have a Hyperabundance of Medical/Constitutional Experts...
- Thread starter rikki-tikka-tava
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I know a few that have died, righty. Two relatives.
Does that make a difference to you?
The Covid vaccines significantly diminish personal risk resulting from infection but don't prevent infection, ergo being vaccinated doesn't eliminate Covid's ability to spread or prevent those who are vaccinated from being a threat to those who are/are not (viral load in infected vaccinated individuals is no less than in unvaccinated infected individuals). If that is indeed the case, then it seems getting vaccinated really is a personal choice since being vaccinated does not significantly reducing infection rates or viral presence in the general population.
No axe to grind, just wondering if this is a logical conclusion because it seems as if the unvaccinated are no more or less a threat to others than the vaccinated. The drag they impose on society if they happen to get sick and require hospitalization is another matter, but as it stands, it seems that mandating vaccinations is (apart from personal risk) pointless. Am I missing something?
The virus isn't going away. With all the new data coming in, mandating vaccinations no longer seems to make sense - same for banning/restricting entry of the unvaccinated. Insofar as the unvaccinated pose no more risk to anyone (other than themselves) than the vaccinated, there really doesn't seem to be much of a case for requiring this brand of "civic responsibilty", the burden on society resulting from life-threatening infection notwithstanding. Is there?
If folks want to roll the dice by not getting vaccinated, why shouldn't they? Am still down with masking and social distancing for so long as children are at risk because they can not yet be vaccinated, but the whole 'vaxxing is PC' schtick is looking pretty thin.
No axe to grind, just wondering if this is a logical conclusion because it seems as if the unvaccinated are no more or less a threat to others than the vaccinated. The drag they impose on society if they happen to get sick and require hospitalization is another matter, but as it stands, it seems that mandating vaccinations is (apart from personal risk) pointless. Am I missing something?
The virus isn't going away. With all the new data coming in, mandating vaccinations no longer seems to make sense - same for banning/restricting entry of the unvaccinated. Insofar as the unvaccinated pose no more risk to anyone (other than themselves) than the vaccinated, there really doesn't seem to be much of a case for requiring this brand of "civic responsibilty", the burden on society resulting from life-threatening infection notwithstanding. Is there?
If folks want to roll the dice by not getting vaccinated, why shouldn't they? Am still down with masking and social distancing for so long as children are at risk because they can not yet be vaccinated, but the whole 'vaxxing is PC' schtick is looking pretty thin.
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The points you are making in this post seem to mirror (as best I can tell) the points being made by niece and her college friends. They just sent me a bunch of stats from Israel, Iceland and the UK that I haven't fully unpacked yet, but I'm tending more and more to side with the kids. That being said, I think I'll get the shot myself as long as my ancient history of allergic reactions as a youth is not a hinderance.
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The Pentagon. Various school districts/teachers associations. Hospitals. Private companies.
I think vaccinated still are less likely to get infected in the first place so there is some effect on how fast it spreads.
Well that would factor in if true, but what 'you think' (and I) isn't very definitive. So, has that any actual basis or is just intution?
99.9% of vaxxed have not gotten a breakthrough. Even better than the efficacy projections of 94 - 96%
I have read that in a few articles but have no way of knowing how accurate
I would think that the vast majority of vaxxed aren't running out to get tested, unless they show symptoms, so thats pretty much irrelevant.
Read the same, mostly from small scale studies. Considering it's a novel virus anything like that should be taken with a grain of salt at least until there are enough peer reviewed studies. It took them months to come to the conclusion that it is spread through the air and not by surface contact like other viruses are.
I agree that facts matter but disagree with your interpretation of the article. As stated in the article, in the beginning, mRNA research was thought it would be a way to combat cancer but then CoVid happened and "the world changed". mRNA was seen as a fast effective way to stimulate the immune system to fight a disease. In the beginning, of course, it was cancer cells and then a virus but BOTH are using the same mechanism. I would imagine, but it was not stated, that the early trials where the immune system went into overdrive were a concern.
Yep...no way anyone had it before the first "documented" case, right medical genius?...you are a pussy liberal who will say anything(true or not) to make himself appear correct. As I said,I talked to 2 different doctors who told me the same thing....but again....you know better. Be careful....typing too much will make your thumbs fall off(panic sets in)...need a safe place?
All of the data seems to be emerging which is to say, changing. I believe Iceland is the most highly vaccinated country in the world with over 75% of it's population fully vaccinated. I understand that it's Iceland and a small country. However, it would be naive to think if it's happening there, it can't / won't happen anywhere else.
Since July 9th, 77% of positive cases in that country are with vaccinated individuals. Obviously with a higher vaccination rate the percentage of positive cases for vaccinated individuals would be higher. I share this as you may want to pump the breaks on spewing stats like this one or if you do, perhaps timestamp it because whatever it is, more likely than not, the statistic relative to reinfection amongst those vaccinated is going to change. This is a leaky vaccine, not a perfect vaccine. Hopefully what has transpired in Iceland is not foreshadowing for the rest of the world. From my perspective, the one constant is that the vaccines are highly effective at reducing the severity of the symptoms. Further, and we should all feel good about this, the therapeutics have improved to treat those individuals who become affected regardless of their vaccine status thus making for a quicker recovery in severe cases.
Fact Check-COVID-19 cases in Iceland are not proof that vaccines are ineffective
Rising COVID-19 cases in Iceland are not proof that vaccines are a “failure”, despite claims made online.
www.reuters.com
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Somewhere in the neighborhood of .003%.
This is sad. One cringes considering the post was authored by an alleged college-educated person.
Critical thinking was not part of that education, apparently...
Misdiagnosis happens all the time KItty. Your tenuous grasp on reality suggests you actually contracted and are still afflicted with gangrene of the head. Would explain why you act like this site is your own personal litter box. Poor Kitty.
Excellent post Rikki. Not sure if you have seen this video or not, but it's worth a listen. The more we all can be informed on this topic, the better we can understand. As with all other things I have posted on this topic, please take this for whatever it is worth to you. Thanks.
What would you know about it? US case fatality rate is 1.7 %, i.e., 17 out of every 1000 people that positively test for Covid will die from it, or as he said, about 1 in 60. Those numbers are significantly/progressively lower for younger victims and conversely higher among the elder, but overall 1.7% for the entire US population. Factoring in undiagnosed cases likely reduces that number to under 1 %.
The odds of both contracting and dying from Covid are quite a bit lower since at this point less than 10% of the US population has been infected. However, because vaccination does not prevent actual infection, the number of people who become infected at some point will likely and eventually represent the majority of the population. The overall national case fatality rate will decline as a result of vaccinations although it will likely remain the same among the unvaccinated, that is, 1.7%.
"Somewhere in the neighborhood of .003%." An unattributed and unqualified figure presented in isolation means less than nothing. Maybe get the stick out of your ass and do some reading yourself.
Is COVID-19 survival chance the same, vaccinated or not?
Is a person’s chance of surviving COVID-19 the same, vaccinated or not? "Unvaccinated, you can get COVID and have over 9
www.politifact.com
Mortality Analyses - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center
How does mortality differ across countries? Examining the number of deaths per confirmed case and per 100,000 population. A global comparison.
coronavirus.jhu.edu
With the My Pillow Guy reference, am I to infer that you are dismissing this person as valid? We all have a choice as to what we believe and don't or at a minimum, how we absorb any information or witness. I am not a doctor nor pretend to be one. But I listen to all the sources, Fauci, CDC, etc. What this guy is saying is more consistent with what I have witnessed and experienced over the last 18 months. But hey, that's just me. You and all others can choose to believe what you want and dismiss what you want. But all the Vaccine drum beaters saying it's the end all and then shaming those who don't, whether you believe this guy or don't, maybe recognize that some in society do. And right now, he is making more sense than any of the other folks. Have a good day Courtsense.
The Department of Defense is about to mandate it. Saw the Secretary of Defense's memo on that yesterday. It will be mandatory in September.
I totally agree.
A secondary and purely selfish reason for me getting vaccinated is so my family and I don't have to stay home for 10 to 14 GD days every time we are exposed to someone who gets COVID. That's 2 weeks of a sports season my kid won't get back. Or missing taking my dad to his doctor appointments. Or a million other things. As you say, it's a no brainer.
That doctor once took some classes related to infectious diseases decades ago, but he has no current knowledge of reading and understanding the scientific literature, as is obvious from his numerous misstatements, errors of fact, and false conclusions. It's just a misguided, ridiculous rant. I have worked in drug discovery, including infectious disease research, for 31 years, with 103 research publications and patents, as of last count.
I’ll see if I can find a group of doctors who. I saw responding to this. While they agreed with some parts, they also called others dangerously misleading.
We'll be given guidance on that but I think it will be administrative discharges for them.
So the result is discharge, not a forced vaccination, when it's refused.
Pretty much the same result as in the private sector . . . you lose your job or you can't go to college where you've enrolled. But no forced vaccination . . .
. . . like I said elsewhere, you can do whatever you want so long as you're willing to live with the consequences.
This is true. I will say though that even if a place of business/location may require it, I think the use of the word mandate in the media has been blown out of proportion. Not in your case but just in general. Those are all career and/or voluntary based locations that one can avoid if they so choose. Proof of vaccination is required to enter but you're not required to enter therefore no one is truly mandated to get vaccinated.
To work in a hospital, they also mandate a college degree and random drug tests or to ride a roller coaster you have to be 52 inches...etc. So although valid, people do seem to take that vaccination mandates as infringing upon a hypothetical freedom they erroneously believe is due to them.
I take everything I see online with a grain of salt. Particularly one from a man that like you said, appears to be on a rant infront of a school board. I am not a doctor nor am I in the medical field. Just living through this like everyone else and experiencing what I am experiencing myself or through those I am in close contact with, ie family. I am in no position to refute or substantiate anything this doctor is saying. I can say that much of what he is saying seems to be playing itself out in what is happening currently. I welcome anything you or anyone else has to offer as it helps me become more educated and informed. Thanks for the input @outside shooter
Thanks Zeke. I welcome any and all perspectives to help further my education. The more views and better the sources, all the better. Thank you!
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