Official Vance /Walz debate thread

[mushroomgod_1]

OMG lol

So she goosed favored businesses... by throwing taxpayer cash around... to create jobs... that couldn't be filled... because nobody needed the jobs... and to fill these jobs nobody wanted... granted permits to 200,000 Haitians... to 'reduce pressure on the border' (admin claim)... by having them come in away from the border... which helps the American citizens.

That's your take?

Well, at least we got more inflation out of it. So there's that.
,

But the CBS moderators want us to know its "legal". immigration ..............lolololol

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Obviously it's her fault that Springfield ended up with all those Hatians. If she hadn't signed the American Rescue Act all of those new businesses in Springfield wouldn't have sprung up and needed increases to the labor force. So the town's business leaders wouldn't have encouraed Hatians in the rest of the country to come there and work the jobs the locals had no interest in and the depleted population couldn't staff adequately...

Incidentally one of those new business owners (Jamie McGregor/McGregor Metals ) has been receiving death threats since he spoke out and negatively compared the unreliable, opioid ridden local workers with the Hatians he's hired. Sound like some real quality workers (and people) if they feel the need to threaten the guy and his family.

I can't imagine why he'd be reluctant to have some of them work for him...

"For Jamie McGregor, a businessman in Springfield, Ohio, speaking favorably about the Haitian immigrants he employs has come to this: death threats, a lockdown at his company and posters around town branding him a traitor for hiring immigrants. To defend himself and his family, Mr. McGregor has had to violate his own vow to never own a gun. “I have struggled with the fact that now we’re going to have firearms in our house—like, what the hell?” said Mr. McGregor, who runs McGregor Metal, which makes parts for cars, trucks and tractors. “And now we’re taking classes, we’re going to shooting ranges, we’re being fitted for handguns,” he said on a recent day, pulling up a photo of his 14-year-old daughter clutching a Glock."

Idiots Are Now Threatening Business Owners in Springfield

Trump and Vance are ruining the lives of people they won’t ever meet.

www.esquire.com

Sounds like you're a proponent of the Great Replacement Theory.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

You believe there are 100 genders? Link someone that does.

So now Mr. Disaffected Republican Admiral is all over gender theory?

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Well he didn't witness a "school shooting", and Walz never claimed he did. What Walz said was that Gus witnessed a shooting at a Rec center. It was widely known locally in MN, but there was no reason it would have made national headlines at the time...

"Gus Walz was at volleyball practice at the Jimmy Lee Recreation Center in St. Paul the afternoon of Jan. 18, 2023, when a 16-year-old was shot and seriously wounded outside.

It wasn’t the first time Tim Walz had spoken about his son’s brush with gun violence, and the shooting itself was widely publicized locally. But the Democrat’s remarks Tuesday night at his debate with Republican JD Vance, as the public is still getting to know both vice presidential candidates, offered the biggest stage yet to personalize an issue that has deeply affected many American families.

On Wednesday, the youth’s volleyball coach, David Albornoz, praised Gus in an interview with The Associated Press for how he helped get other kids to safety and keep them calm amid the chaotic scene."

Coach praises Tim Walz's son for helping protect other kids after shooting

When the issue of gun violence came up at the vice presidential debate, Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz had a personal story to tell: His teenage son, Gus, had been at a sports center last year when a shooting took place.

apnews.com

Just because Trump and Vance make up stories to sensationalize issues, doesn't mean everyone else does...

Didn't he say his son 'witnessed' the rec shooting? Is that exactly the same as being inside the rec center when there is a shooting outside? Do you think the way Walz described it was accidental? I don't.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

She was not the President.

Instead, the current President is the man that you guys elected by running the orange buffoon populist instead of a normal, reasonable Republican. Now, you guys are running the orange guy again. Does that make sense?

Now, you're trying to paint Harris with all your complaints about Biden. Does that make sense?

You don't like Trump. You've repeatedly admitted you don't like Trump. But, you claim you will vote for Trump. You're trying your damnedest to elect Trump. Does that make sense?

There was a huge power vacuum for the last two years. She could have been running the place if she hadn't had shit for brains. She had no interest in solving the problem. Therefore, she was part of the problem.

 

[mcmurtry66]

There was a huge power vacuum for the last two years. She could have been running the place if she hadn't had shit for brains. She had no interest in solving the problem. Therefore, she was part of the problem.

He doesn’t want to talk about policy. Only people. Feelings

 

[ChicagoFineForNow]

But the CBS moderators want us to know its "legal". immigration ..............lolololol

That seems to be the crutch for Democrats now days. "Hey! It's legal!"

That's not the question. Is it good policy is the question. The Government could send $10K cash payouts to every convicted violent criminal in the country. Perfectly legal, is it good policy?

 

[Digressions]

E

We’ve explained it a thousand times. You’re just asleep. Yawn. Read. Become educated. You’re lost. Stay awake. Stay woke!

You said Vance hit on all the key points in his closing. His first point was energy. Yet a few weeks ago, it was pointed out to you that the US is producing a record amount of oil and gas.

Vance's second point... inflation. Biden wrongly sent out $2400 stimulus that wasn't needed. It exacerbated the problem, but can't possibly explain the amount of inflation that we have seen. It’s much better explained by droughts, a continuation of shut downs in other countries (China) which exacerbated the supply chain problems, and the increase in early retirements(80k/mo to 200k/mo.)

It's more disingenuous bullshit from the party that gave us a "rising tide lifts all boats". Obviously, a majority of Republicans boats didn't rise. Now, the same suckers are falling for this shtick. Wait until the MAGA crowd figures out Mexico/China didn't steal our jobs.

 

[mcmurtry66]

You said Vance hit on all the key points in his closing. His first point was energy. Yet a few weeks ago, it was pointed out to you that the US is producing a record amount of oil and gas.

Vance's second point... inflation. Biden wrongly sent out $2400 stimulus that wasn't needed. It exacerbated the problem, but can't possibly explain the amount of inflation that we have seen. It’s much better explained by droughts, a continuation of shut downs in other countries (China) which exacerbated the supply chain problems, and the increase in early retirements(80k/mo to 200k/mo.)

It's more disingenuous bullshit from the party that gave us a "rising tide lifts all boats". Obviously, a majority of Republicans boats didn't rise. Now, the same suckers are falling for this shtick. Wait until the MAGA crowd figures out Mexico/China didn't steal our jobs.

All of these have been belabored so I’m going to give it short shrift. The 200 policy actions Biden took on energy impacted investments costs etc. they contributed to not caused..

Your take on inflation is way off. Accdg to the fed excess stim HERE may have contributed to as much as 3 points. You left out mailbox checks. Extended unemployment. Child tax credits converted to monthly checks. Eviction stays. Forbearance stays. People had their bills stayed and were flush with cash so they spent on goods thereby overcooking the economy.

Housing draconian virtue signaling Covid restrictions gave rise to unnecessary remote work and that contributed to housing costs

There’s absolutely nothing progressives get right. Let’s not be fools and do this again with the identity appointment

 

[Digressions]

All of these have been belabored so I’m going to give it short shrift. The 200 policy actions Biden took on energy impacted investments costs etc. they contributed to not caused..

Your take on inflation is way off. Accdg to the fed excess stim HERE may have contributed to as much as 3 points. You left out mailbox checks. Extended unemployment. Child tax credits converted to monthly checks. Eviction stays. Forbearance stays. People had their bills stayed and were flush with cash so they spent on goods thereby overcooking the economy.

Housing draconian virtue signaling Covid restrictions gave rise to unnecessary remote work and that contributed to housing costs

There’s absolutely nothing progressives get right. Let’s not be fools and do this again with the identity appointment

We obviously disagree to the extents. We agree both sides lie. And we disagree with which is the lesser evil.

Time will tell. I'll take the win with regards to conservatism. And I'm going on record that this form of populism will be worse.

Edit: Hopefully, it doesn't take 40 years for the rubes to figure it out.

 

[jet812]

You said Vance hit on all the key points in his closing. His first point was energy. Yet a few weeks ago, it was pointed out to you that the US is producing a record amount of oil and gas.

Vance's second point... inflation. Biden wrongly sent out $2400 stimulus that wasn't needed. It exacerbated the problem, but can't possibly explain the amount of inflation that we have seen. It’s much better explained by droughts, a continuation of shut downs in other countries (China) which exacerbated the supply chain problems, and the increase in early retirements(80k/mo to 200k/mo.)

It's more disingenuous bullshit from the party that gave us a "rising tide lifts all boats". Obviously, a majority of Republicans boats didn't rise. Now, the same suckers are falling for this shtick. Wait until the MAGA crowd figures out Mexico/China didn't steal our jobs.

How does “a record amount” relate to supply, demand, potential supply, etc. Does more than before = the right amount?

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Biden wrongly sent out $2400 stimulus that wasn't needed. It exacerbated the problem, but can't possibly explain the amount of inflation that we have seen. It’s much better explained by droughts, a continuation of shut downs in other countries (China) which exacerbated the supply chain problems, and the increase in early retirements(80k/mo to 200k/mo.)

The checks you're referring to were only one part of the monetary expansion.

It's the only part that most people had direct exposure to. So it's naturally the part that many people look at. But, to see the actual data, you have to take a few steps back and look at the whole monetary picture.

And, in pointing to droughts and that sort of thing, it's important to remember the old saw that "inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon." In other words, there's a critical difference between wholesale inflation and the rising prices of certain goods/services -- especially blips due to supply shocks or other short-term phenomena.

Here's a chart of the M2 money supply. M2 includes all the money that's actively changing hands as well as things like time deposits (CDs, etc.), mutual funds, and other forms of "near money" that are generally expected to stay put.

What's even more stark is the M1 chart. M1 leaves out the "near money" that tends to have low velocity. It's physical currency, demand deposits, money markets. These are dollars that are expected to have higher velocity. Look at the sharp upturn in this one:

This is why we had the inflation.

 

[mcmurtry66]

We obviously disagree to the extents. We agree both sides lie. And we disagree with which is the lesser evil.

Time will tell. I'll take the win with regards to conservatism. And I'm going on record that this form of populism will be worse.

Edit: Hopefully, it doesn't take 40 years for the rubes to figure it out.

I think we basically have four parties. Progressives - AOC and in 2020 Harris/Biden tho she’s trying to distance herself from it but chose walz which was a bad move; Shapiro and mod Dems; trump who is like a hodgepodge but basically an old school Dem; and the aloha republicans. I like trump and Shapiro. I don’t like progressives and I don’t like old school pubs

Generalizing…..

 

[ChicagoFineForNow]

We obviously disagree to the extents. We agree both sides lie. And we disagree with which is the lesser evil.

Time will tell. I'll take the win with regards to conservatism. And I'm going on record that this form of populism will be worse.

Edit: Hopefully, it doesn't take 40 years for the rubes to figure it out.

Energy prices are highly speculative. Restricting leases and charging oil companies a premium to use federal land makes costs go up. Alienating OPAC makes costs go up.

Biden also passed an inflationary “infrastructure bill” and BBB not just the Covid stimulus.

 

[Digressions]

The checks you're referring to were only one part of the monetary expansion.

It's the only part that most people had direct exposure to. So it's naturally the part that many people look at. But, to see the actual data, you have to take a few steps back and look at the whole monetary picture.

And, in pointing to droughts and that sort of thing, it's important to remember the old saw that "inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon." In other words, there's a critical difference between wholesale inflation and the rising prices of certain goods/services -- especially blips due to supply shocks or other short-term phenomena.

Here's a chart of the M2 money supply. M2 includes all the money that's actively changing hands as well as things like time deposits (CDs, etc.), mutual funds, and other forms of "near money" that are generally expected to stay put.

What's even more stark is the M1 chart. M1 leaves out the "near money" that tends to have low velocity. It's physical currency, demand deposits, money markets. These are dollars that are expected to have higher velocity. Look at the sharp upturn in this one:

This is why we had the inflation.

This also contradicts McMurtry.

Inflation is too much money chasing too few goods. To say droughts, labor shortages and people using less energy because of lock downs didn't effect markets and supply chains and in turn exacerbate inflation would be foolish. I do understand and agree with your overarching point.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

This also contradicts McMurtry.

Inflation is too much money chasing too few goods. To say droughts, labor shortages and people using less energy because of lock downs didn't effect markets and supply chains and in turn exacerbate inflation would be foolish. I do understand and agree with your overarching point.

I'm not saying they don't affect markets. I'm saying they aren't the cause of broad-based inflation. The vast expansion of the money supply is.

To the extent people want to talk about who bears responsibility -- most of it happened while Trump was president. But plenty happened afterwards as well. My main point, regarding Biden, is that his part in it was more than stimulus checks. Those were part of ARP -- but there was much more to it than that.

 

[Digressions]

How does “a record amount” relate to supply, demand, potential supply, etc. Does more than before = the right amount?

Energies are globally traded commodities. Biden is producing more than Trump did. What was Vance's point? Whatever his point is, it would seem disingenuous given the facts. For it to be the first contrast out of his mouth is telling.

I understand your point though.

 

[cosmickid]

What baout the 2016 election being stolen?

Clinton was complaining about the FBI interjection days nefore the race. No one accused Trump or his voters of voting fraud. And certainly no one stormed the Capitol carrying "Hillary flags" or waving the Stars and Bars...

 

[cosmickid]

You aske me how many---I told you.

You point out the "good"---and there is some. There is also some "bad"---Yet you ignore that.

Its the issue I have with some....Eager to point all the good----point out the bad of the opponent, yet ignore the bad of "your" candidate.

I can google many issues with both acts---I can laso google many goods both produced.

At the end of the day, her position and time as VP is being pushed aside, simply b/c she is/was, historically one of the worst ever at the position.

"At the end of the day, her position and time as VP is being pushed aside, simply b/c she is/was, historically one of the worst ever at the position"

So you're repeating a Trump talking point. And he's an idiot so we know he couldn't answer this question. But maybe you've taken the time to research the issue and aren't just spouting rhetoric...

So can you point me to your list of the Top 10 VPs and their accomplishments? Since you have anyone but Harris to choose from, it shouldn't be that difficult...

 

[ChicagoFineForNow]

"At the end of the day, her position and time as VP is being pushed aside, simply b/c she is/was, historically one of the worst ever at the position"

So you're repeating a Trump talking point. And he's an idiot so we know he couldn't answer this question. But maybe you've taken the time to research the issue and aren't just spouting rhetoric...

So can you point me to your list of the Top 10 VPs and their accomplishments? Since you have anyone but Harris to choose from, it shouldn't be that difficult...

Harris is simultaneously an effective and experienced executive who was the last person in the room on all of Biden's most important decisions as well as a useless appendage to the Biden administration who held no real power and shouldn't have to hold blame for any of the administration's failures.

 

[Digressions]

I think we basically have four parties. Progressives - AOC and in 2020 Harris/Biden tho she’s trying to distance herself from it but chose walz which was a bad move; Shapiro and mod Dems; trump who is like a hodgepodge but basically an old school Dem; and the aloha republicans. I like trump and Shapiro. I don’t like progressives and I don’t like old school pubs

Generalizing…..

In the 80's we had the whole buy local movement. It failed. People chose Wal-Mart and lower prices. Those lower prices came from cheap labor. Corporate profits also soared.

How is this new Trump populism going to work? Are people in 2025 going to be willing to pay more for products, unlike the people of the 1980's? Inflation seems unpopular.

 

[mcmurtry66]

In the 80's we had the whole buy local movement. It failed. People chose Wal-Mart and lower prices. Those lower prices came from cheap labor. Corporate profits also soared.

How is this new Trump populism going to work? Are people in 2025 going to be willing to pay more for products, unlike the people of the 1980's? Inflation seems unpopular.

We’re paying more now bc of progressives. Something like a 40 year spike. That was literally the Harris administration. Compare prices to the trump admin. Hell compare anything

 

[dbmhoosier]

Sorry Aloha. We are not going back!!!

 

[snarlcakes]

You said Vance hit on all the key points in his closing. His first point was energy. Yet a few weeks ago, it was pointed out to you that the US is producing a record amount of oil and gas.

Vance's second point... inflation. Biden wrongly sent out $2400 stimulus that wasn't needed. It exacerbated the problem, but can't possibly explain the amount of inflation that we have seen. It’s much better explained by droughts, a continuation of shut downs in other countries (China) which exacerbated the supply chain problems, and the increase in early retirements(80k/mo to 200k/mo.)

It's more disingenuous bullshit from the party that gave us a "rising tide lifts all boats". Obviously, a majority of Republicans boats didn't rise. Now, the same suckers are falling for this shtick. Wait until the MAGA crowd figures out Mexico/China didn't steal our jobs.

We ran the two economic theories the past 8 years. The GOPs was much better.

 

[Digressions]

We’re paying more now bc of progressives. Something like a 40 year spike. That was literally the Harris administration. Compare prices to the trump admin. Hell compare anything

I'm asking about Trump’s policies in general.

But to your point, do you think inflation would have occurred without Covid? Obviously, not to the extent it did, but do you think the Biden administration was so progressive that it would have led to inflation?

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Sorry Aloha. We are not going back!!!

View embedded media

You’re a huge dupe.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

I'm asking about Trump’s policies in general.

But to your point, do you think inflation would have occurred without Covid? Obviously, not to the extent it did, but do you think the Biden administration was so progressive that it would have led to inflation?

I don’t think Biden would’ve gotten his major spending bills passed without Covid. Maybe infrastructure - because that’s a different animal. But not the other two.

Amazingly, a lot of Dems were pissed at Joe Manchin for thwarting a bill that was trillions larger than the IRA that became law. All of us should be grateful he did - including other Dems.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I'm asking about Trump’s policies in general.

But to your point, do you think inflation would have occurred without Covid? Obviously, not to the extent it did, but do you think the Biden administration was so progressive that it would have led to inflation?

See crazed’s answer. And I’m not sure they can be disentangled. Biden/Harris were desirous of being transformative- cradle to grave benes- but the conditions contributed as well. We were home. With nothin to do but buy shit. Chase goods

Inflation with Covid was inevitable but excess stim made it worse and now we’re stuck with high prices

 

[IUJIM]

I'm asking about Trump’s policies in general.

But to your point, do you think inflation would have occurred without Covid? Obviously, not to the extent it did, but do you think the Biden administration was so progressive that it would have led to inflation?

Inflation would not have happened to the extent that it did without Covid. We would also have Trump as President without Covid, so many things might have been substantially different

 

[Digressions]

We ran the two economic theories the past 8 years. The GOPs was much better.

4 years is not enough to make a judgment about Trump’s economy. Especially with Covid happening near the end of his term.

 

[Digressions]

I'm not saying they don't affect markets. I'm saying they aren't the cause of broad-based inflation. The vast expansion of the money supply is.

To the extent people want to talk about who bears responsibility -- most of it happened while Trump was president. But plenty happened afterwards as well. My main point, regarding Biden, is that his part in it was more than stimulus checks. Those were part of ARP -- but there was much more to it than that.

And so while I agree, Biden’s policies were wrong and only added to the problem, I disagree with McMurtry about the amount of blame that can be attributed to Biden.

Furthermore, while those inflation inducing policies have since stopped, every policy put forth by Trump would be inflationary. I think that cheapens McMurtry's argument. Especially, given the rest of Trump’s issues.

 

[mcmurtry66]

And so while I agree, Biden’s policies were wrong and only added to the problem, I disagree with McMurtry about the amount of blame that can be attributed to Biden.

Furthermore, while those inflation inducing policies have since stopped, every policy put forth by Trump would be inflationary. I think that cheapens McMurtry's argument. Especially, given the rest of Trump’s issues.

Biden’s American Rescue Plan worsened inflation. The question is how much.

Was it a minor contributor or a major factor in the US’s inflation woes?

www.vox.com

See the fed.

It’s always baffling to me when you can look at inflation under trump and see it. Then attach the policies enacted by Biden and see the spike. Yet worry about trump

 

[Digressions]

Biden’s American Rescue Plan worsened inflation. The question is how much.

Was it a minor contributor or a major factor in the US’s inflation woes?

www.vox.com

See the fed.

It’s always baffling to me when you can look at inflation under trump and see it. Then attach the policies enacted by Biden and see the spike. Yet worry about trump

I read that piece. To crazed point, their were many factors that went into this inflationary period. In the big scheme of things, we disagree to what extent. But we do know that most(if not all) of Trump’s policies are inflationary.

Not only that. The largest single factor was probably how the Fed handled the situation. It was the fed chair appointed by Trump.

Not only that, but Trump has a history of lying, accusing, and attempting to manipulate the fed's actions for his own political gain. This might be the least talked about, but one of the most important norms that he broke as CIC.

Those are just a few reasons we should focus on Trump.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I read that piece. To crazed point, their were many factors that went into this inflationary period. In the big scheme of things, we disagree to what extent. But we do know that most(if not all) of Trump’s policies are inflationary.

Not only that. The largest single factor was probably how the Fed handled the situation. It was the fed chair appointed by Trump.

Not only that, but Trump has a history of lying, accusing, and attempting to manipulate the fed's actions for his own political gain. This might be the least talked about, but one of the most important norms that he broke as CIC.

Those are just a few reasons we should focus on Trump.

You keep saying that but it is contrary to evidence. We have a full history of trump’s tenure. He left office and inflation was 1 point something. I gave you evidence. You’re giving me words.

Social spending congruent with Dem progressive policy spiked inflation. Go look at the timing and the data. Not speculation. Evidence.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

And so while I agree, Biden’s policies were wrong and only added to the problem, I disagree with McMurtry about the amount of blame that can be attributed to Biden.

Furthermore, while those inflation inducing policies have since stopped, every policy put forth by Trump would be inflationary. I think that cheapens McMurtry's argument. Especially, given the rest of Trump’s issues.

Sometimes people get more caught up in wanting to hang things around the neck of a politician they oppose to just take a sober assessment of the totality of something. In fact, we're all guilty of that at times.

The truth is that virtually all of the Covid response policies had very broad bipartisan support. I thought at the time that we overreacted and that we should've done something closer to Sweden's approach. The fact that we didn't was incredibly expensive -- with that expense manifesting in countless ways (not all of them monetary). But lonely was the voice saying "Wait...aren't we overreacting a little bit?" Because anybody saying that would be accused of wanting to kill people -- etc. etc.

In other words, I wouldn't hang all of the Covid-specific fallout on Trump, either. Can you you imagine what would've been said had he not acted more or less as he did -- with the shutdowns, associated relief spending, and all that? And it was an election year, no less. But, still, the point is that there was precious little opposition in either party to the big relief bills that required the Fed to print and lend trillions.

As for Biden, my big issue with what his initiatives that added to the inflationary pressures is that he cited Covid....when we were already pretty much out of the woods by then. The labor market was well on its way to restoring the jobs lost, etc.

 

[Digressions]

You keep saying that but it is contrary to evidence. We have a full history of trump’s tenure. He left office and inflation was 1 point something. I gave you evidence. You’re giving me words.

If you think the inflation rate at the end of Trump’s term is somehow evidence that Trump would have done a better job with the economy over the last 4 years, it isn't. Inflation was coming, it just so happened Trump was leaving. We still hadn't bottomed out yet.

And although I disagreed with Biden contemporaneously, in his defense, the jobs data was not good at the time, and was later backdated (like 6 mos after the fact)to show the jobs numbers weren't as bad.

Also, he ran on that proposal. He shouldn't have made it as large as he did, but he was elected to do it. The electorate isn't very forgiving when it comes to these things.

1% means nothing. The economy is dynamic. That argument is being made by Trump and is intended for people that don't know better.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

I read that piece. To crazed point, their were many factors that went into this inflationary period. In the big scheme of things, we disagree to what extent. But we do know that most(if not all) of Trump’s policies are inflationary.

Not only that. The largest single factor was probably how the Fed handled the situation. It was the fed chair appointed by Trump.

Not only that, but Trump has a history of lying, accusing, and attempting to manipulate the fed's actions for his own political gain. This might be the least talked about, but one of the most important norms that he broke as CIC.

Those are just a few reasons we should focus on Trump.

Again, the lion's share of Trump's part in what ensued had nothing to do with him prodding Jay Powell or anything like that. It also had nothing to do with his dumb trade policies. His trade policies had already been dumb for years and didn't touch off inflation.

It had to do with the Covid response. He absolutely bears most of that responsibility -- but let's not pretend he was out on that limb alone. It was actually a massive example of groupthink borne of panic, IMO.

 

[Digressions]

Sometimes people get more caught up in wanting to hang things around the neck of a politician they oppose to just take a sober assessment of the totality of something. In fact, we're all guilty of that at times.

The truth is that virtually all of the Covid response policies had very broad bipartisan support. I thought at the time that we overreacted and that we should've done something closer to Sweden's approach. The fact that we didn't was incredibly expensive -- with that expense manifesting in countless ways (not all of them monetary). But lonely was the voice saying "Wait...aren't we overreacting a little bit?" Because anybody saying that would be accused of wanting to kill people -- etc. etc.

In other words, I wouldn't hang all of the Covid-specific fallout on Trump, either. Can you you imagine what would've been said had he not acted more or less as he did -- with the shutdowns, associated relief spending, and all that? And it was an election year, no less. But, still, the point is that there was precious little opposition in either party to the big relief bills that required the Fed to print and lend trillions.

As for Biden, my big issue with what his initiatives that added to the inflationary pressures is that he cited Covid....when we were already pretty much out of the woods by then. The labor market was well on its way to restoring the jobs lost, etc.

I agree with all of this. Although, those jobs numbers were adjusted after the fact. And to reiterate, I was never on board with Biden’s stimulus.

 

[mcmurtry66]

If you think the inflation rate at the end of Trump’s term is somehow evidence that Trump would have done a better job with the economy over the last 4 years, it isn't. Inflation was coming, it just so happened Trump was leaving. We still hadn't bottomed out yet.

And although I disagreed with Biden contemporaneously, in his defense, the jobs data was not good at the time, and was later backdated (like 6 mos after the fact)to show the jobs numbers weren't as bad.

Also, he ran on that proposal. He shouldn't have made it as large as he did, but he was elected to do it. The electorate isn't very forgiving when it comes to these things.

1% means nothing. The economy is dynamic. That argument is being made by Trump and is intended for people that don't know better.

You rely on speculation. Not evidence. I can give the policies enacted by Biden and show the corresponding inflation spike. As corroborated by the fed. After all of the stays and stim it spiked to 9 perfect

I don’t want transformative gov. Cradle to grave benes. I want it shrunk. Biden Harris wanted fdr

 

[Digressions]

Again, the lion's share of Trump's part in what ensued had nothing to do with him prodding Jay Powell or anything like that. It also had nothing to do with his dumb trade policies. His trade policies had already been dumb for years and didn't touch off inflation.

It had to do with the Covid response. He absolutely bears most of that responsibility -- but let's not pretend he was out on that limb alone. It was actually a massive example of groupthink borne of panic, IMO.

Him prodding Jay Powell didn't have anything to do with inflation, but it is another serious example of why he is unfit for the office.