N95 Mask Market

Discussion in 'The Water Cooler' started by twenty02, Apr 2, 2020.

  1. twenty02

    twenty02 Hall of Famer
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    Amazes me that we have millions of N95 masks within the country.... that are being sold daily to foreign buyers.



    I Spent A Day In The Coronavirus-Driven Feeding Frenzy Of N95 Mask Sellers And Buyers And This Is What I Learned

    In the interest of brevity, I’m going to summarize what I learned below and then jump into a bit more detail.



    • Millions of N95 masks have been available throughout the U.S., Canada and the UK during the pandemic, according to brokers trying to sell them.
    • The high price point per mask, driven by extreme demand, has contributed to an overwhelmed reaction among potential buyers, especially in the U.S.
    • Scrutiny surrounding these deals is high because of ongoing scams and claims of price-gouging, both of which are triggering emotionally charged reactions and fear of making deals.
    • Millions of masks are being purchased by foreign buyers and are leaving the country, according to the brokers, while the domestic need remains alarmingly high.

    The Federal Govt continues to fiddle, diddle and generally screw the dog.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidd...ellers-and-buyers-and-this-is-what-i-learned/
     
  2. UncleMark

    UncleMark Hall of Famer
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    This was addressed in the presser going on right now. Sounds like they're going to stop the exporting in its tracks.

    We have been offered masks by the suppliers we work with in China for the last three or four weeks. And we're not in that type of market at all. They are available.
     
  3. bawlmer

    bawlmer All-Big Ten
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    DOJ and HHS confiscated a warehouse full of protective equipment today that was purchased months ago for resale now during the crisis. They've set up a hotline to turn people in.
     
  4. 82hoosier

    82hoosier All-American
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    Yet the federal government seems to be content with letting the states bid against each other and also to bid against FEMA when it comes to getting personal protective equipment.
     
  5. sglowrider

    sglowrider Hall of Famer
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    There should have been a central task force responsible for managing the entire country pandemic response but instead it's one firefight after another.
    This will be the 1st lessons learnt from the post-disaster. The lack of coordinating point. Viruses don't respect state borders. From Pence to Kushner etc.

    This is a global borderless war that is being left to be managed at a local level. And I suspect intentionally too.
    It was obvious it was going to be a cluster feck back in February when the BS first started - constantly one firefight after another with a lack of a strategic plan.
    Now you have individual states are trying to outbid each other (and FEMA) on the market for medical supplies and equipment? Instead of the no brainer solution for federal purchase and distribution. As a result, the prices of non-invasive ventilators have gone up from $10k to $50k.

    As MoH said -- its capitalism baybee.
     
    5 sglowrider, Apr 2, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2020
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  6. Spartans9312

    Spartans9312 Sophomore
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    According to the State Dept, we sent 17 tons of PPE to China on Feb. 7th.
    Not sure how many n95.
     
  7. CO. Hoosier

    CO. Hoosier Hall of Famer
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    I’m not sure what the feds can do here short of simply seizing the masks. These sellers claim the foreign buyers show up with “cash”. Meaning the foreigners are offering bribes.

    Colorado has $237M worth of ventilators on order. The supplier wants assurances of cash on delivery before it fulfills the order. C.O.D. is way out of the norm with most governmental contracting. This pandemic has changed everything concerning these transactions. The federal message is “money is no object”. Too many are taking advantage.
     
  8. CO. Hoosier

    CO. Hoosier Hall of Famer
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    That’s naive. Starting with the CDC FUBARING the initial testing and the restrictive rules about who could run the tests, the government response wasn’t the best. So your answer is the Feds to run everything? How’d that work out in China? In the long run, federalism is an advantage, not a curse.
     
  9. JamieDimonsBalls

    JamieDimonsBalls All-Big Ten
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    Despicable behavior and I hope they are criminally punished, but what would the charges be?
     
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  10. IUclover

    IUclover Freshman
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    Trump said in yesterday's briefing they're helping supply medical equipment/supplies to foreign countries (that's kind of his words but put in six year old words).... Cuz we don't need none here (that's my words).
     
  11. CO. Hoosier

    CO. Hoosier Hall of Famer
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    I’ve heard the exact opposite in the update pressers I heard. Where did you get this?
     
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  12. sglowrider

    sglowrider Hall of Famer
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    Its called the free market frenzy. You don't pay now, they will always find someone who will. All global markets for PPEs and respiratory equipment are in hyper-inflationary mode. The ventilators are all out of stock and with 1-3 months lead-time. Prices will vary from day to day.

    The frenzy has been caused by the sudden surge by the various states trying to outbid each other.

    So a ventilator that would have cost 9-10k in the past was $45k on Monday and the $50k on Tuesday. This is a fact. Someone I know showed me the quotation. Same machine.

    So the CO's order for $237M probably isn't buying as many ventilators as they used to be.
     
    12 sglowrider, Apr 2, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2020
  13. Noodle

    Noodle Hall of Famer
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    I donated my N95 masks to the local hospital, along with two boxes of procedure masks and some nitrile gloves. True story.
     
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  14. mcmurtry66

    mcmurtry66 Junior
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    Good question. It’s not price gouging unless and until they try to sell them at an inflated price. Hmmm.
     
  15. CO. Hoosier

    CO. Hoosier Hall of Famer
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    A lot of that is true. The DPA addresses price gouging so we’ll see. None of the transaction turmoil is Trump’s fault or the system’s fault. Yet that seems to be the implication of almost all your posts. Without a strong federal system we’d be worse off, not better.
     
  16. CO. Hoosier

    CO. Hoosier Hall of Famer
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    I didn’t see bidding against FEMA like you alleged.
     
  17. Cream&Crimson

    Cream&Crimson All-Big Ten
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    From the last link I posted:

    "Beshear said Kentucky falls in line with other states all bidding for those same supplies.

    "Oftentimes we have to bid against the federal government and other states. I can tell you I'm doing everything I can to buy as much of it as I can for our people every day as possible," said Beshear."

    Honestly it's not secret. I dug that all up in about 30 seconds.
     
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  18. sglowrider

    sglowrider Hall of Famer
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    Thats why ventilators are $45k one day and then $50k the next -- when they used to cost 10k pre-pandemic. A friend showed me the quote to me.
     
  19. Sope Creek

    Sope Creek Hall of Famer
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    PSA - When using a mask, keep your teeth brushed and use mouthwash often . . . otherwise you'll find out what you've been subjecting the rest of the world to all these years . . . .
     
  20. sglowrider

    sglowrider Hall of Famer
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    Haha. He can do no wrong in your eyes.

    Then why have federal organisations like the FBI then? Why not have local state militias instead of the US Military? Sometimes things are just out of the perspective or purview of the little individual states. There was a Pandemic Task Force to drive the responses.

    This ain't the 1700s. It's an interconnected globalised world that we live in. The UK's ground zero was some dude who went skiing in Austria in early January and then fly back to the UK -- and his two other friends flew back to the States.

    The genie is out of the bottle and either tying to put it back into the bottle or ignoring the fact is just silly.
     
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  21. bawlmer

    bawlmer All-Big Ten
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    Story I saw said the government would compensate them for the fair market value. Surprised they would get off, but I guess being a scumbag isn't a crime.
     
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  22. CO. Hoosier

    CO. Hoosier Hall of Famer
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    FEMA consistently said if it has knowledge of that, it backs off.
     
  23. CO. Hoosier

    CO. Hoosier Hall of Famer
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    “He”? The federal system for disaster declarations and recovery has been around for decades. Trump has nothing to do with the system you find so much fault with.

    FBI, really? C’mon you at least ought to put rational arguments.

    What does globalization have to do with federalism?
     
  24. JamieDimonsBalls

    JamieDimonsBalls All-Big Ten
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    Would think there could be some type of public harm charge but not sure if they could get it to stick
     
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  25. sglowrider

    sglowrider Hall of Famer
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    Man, I really have to spell things out for you. Take your lawyer hat off for once and stop being so pedantic. You guys just can't help it. Think beyond individual words -- most of us don't the time to do that for a living. Its in the middle fo my working morning.

    Try looking at things from the big picture.

    The federal system for disaster has been around for decades then why are states having to fly around the world looking for medical equipment? Why is there no point organisation now doing this for the country rather than each individual state trying to out-compete on prices?

    Point is with any pandemic isn't a state by state issue -- it has to be driven from the top and not let each state eat each other in trying to get equipment just for their own people. Holding on to a federalised concept/purity doesn't work when viruses travel across state lines, international national boundaries and lives are at stake. The Federal Govt has to take charge and have done so on many occasions.
     
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  26. CO. Hoosier

    CO. Hoosier Hall of Famer
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    I guess I like more precision than you do in defining the disputed issues. You say "Trump" or "globalism"as if that is an argument.

    We have never had a 50 state disaster in our history. And we never had a disaster that has rolled on for weeks and weeks before recovery even starts. Typical disasters like a storm or an earthquake are over in a day if not hours. Then recovery begins. This is new. The weaknesses that have become obvious have nothing to do with the system. No system would have worked. Eliminating federalism will not magically create more goods and services.

    Yes everybody knows a pandemic isn't state by state issue. It isn't being treated that way. The task force Trump appointed back in January was tasked with the designing a coherent medical and and civil response and provide an overall national direction. I'm not arguing that the feds have no role. I am saying as big as the federal government is, it isn't big enough to deal with on the ground issues in New York City, Seattle, Wyoming or Vail Colorado. Local decision-making is vital and useful. So is local acquisition of needed goods and services, along with a federal boost in the form of, for example, the DPA. What is the use of the thousands of local hospitals suddenly burdening the federal government with procurement requests? That will cause more delay and chaos. Locals ought to use their own established suppliers. Failing that, go to state procurement people.

    My impression of almost all your posts is that you are using this Pandemic as yet another reason to mindlessly bash Trump without really thinking through the details of any of your points.
     
    27 CO. Hoosier, Apr 2, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2020
  27. mashnut

    mashnut Freshman
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    We know.
     
  28. CO. Hoosier

    CO. Hoosier Hall of Famer
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    Wow. great insight. I think you ought to email Fauci and Birx with your advice.
     
  29. mashnut

    mashnut Freshman
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    This is so non-sequitur I'm suddenly concerned about brain trauma. You might oughta reach out to that friend of yours...
     
  30. CO. Hoosier

    CO. Hoosier Hall of Famer
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    Non-sequitur huh. Ok. I take back what I said about your insight. You are at peak mashnut here.
     
  31. mashnut

    mashnut Freshman
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    Thanks!
     
  32. twenty02

    twenty02 Hall of Famer
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    It sounds as if the govt and 3M had been playing lawyer tag for weeks.... not agreeing upon a liability protection that 3M was seeking until recently.
     
  33. CO. Hoosier

    CO. Hoosier Hall of Famer
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    Thats a fair point. I don’t know if POTUS has the authority to provide civil immunity. That usually takes legislation. The House is now focused on yet another Trump investigation so fat chance of legislation.
     
  34. i'vegotwinners

    i'vegotwinners All-American
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    bitches the guy who worships free market capitalism as his god.

    capitalism the force, like nuclear power, has it's beneficial side, but both must be harnessed 24/7/forever,

    capitalism the force, free markets, and corporations, are what they are.

    capitalism the force and corporations have literally zero ability to self regulate, and are inanimate amoral things.

    elected leaders are the only ones with the power to regulate.

    and even they, only until capitalism the force captures our electoral process as well, thus policy as well.

    at this point, only the voter has the power to harness the algorithm that is capitalism the force.

    and since the algorithm has taken over all our corporate for profit mainstream media, good luck with that.

    especially since voters, like politicians, take absolutely zero responsibility for who/what they vote for.
     
  35. twenty02

    twenty02 Hall of Famer
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    There was legislation in the last Covid bill passed.

    Seems to me it's the actual distribution/ sales system that is broken. 3M isn't charging any more for masks... but middlemen are running a global brokerage business, and making a ton of cash on spreads for these things. Obviously a natural market force of global demand swaming supply.

    Actually is a good system in normal times to keep products best allocated.... but breaks down in emergency situations.... just don't understand why it's taken weeks to understand a broken market requires govt intervention. Didn't happen until today.
     
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  36. CO. Hoosier

    CO. Hoosier Hall of Famer
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    Good. Legislation is the only way.

    And the foreigners are offering cash, which I translate to bribes.
     
  37. twenty02

    twenty02 Hall of Famer
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    Only crazy people believe in unbridled and totally unregulated capitalism..... that's not where the political debate lies. It's on the margin, like everything.

    There's a market failure here.... even Trump has finally realized it today..... just shouldn't have taken this long to see it....I look at it as just general incompetence in this admin. It's not exactly stocked with the sharpest minds.
     
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  38. sglowrider

    sglowrider Hall of Famer
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    It boils down to the lack of a game plan and zero prep. They should have prepared for this. It's normal practice for most governments.
    It only highly who had good governance and who did. The bullshitty populist BoJo and Trump have been caught with their pants down on this.
     
  39. i'vegotwinners

    i'vegotwinners All-American
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    it's "market failure" now only because you feel failed.

    you have absolutely zero problem with it when it's just the working class or the consumer, but not you personally, getting totally screwed over .
     

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