I never claimed injuries didn't hurt IU. They are just overblown. I was using MSU as an example of a team who suffered a significant amount of injuries, as well, and their season didn't go to sh#t like Indiana's did.
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Meeting of the Negative Nancy Club.
- Thread starter Aloha Hoosier
- Start date
I never claimed injuries didn't hurt IU. They are just overblown. I was using MSU as an example of a team who suffered a significant amount of injuries, as well, and their season didn't go to sh#t like Indiana's did.
so if we had less injuries you don't think the game would have been a different outcome...first we would have not been in the situation i assume and if we did lose at the end, the players that was on the floor probably woul have not been on the floor...just saying. why is this so hard for you to grasp...we know there are teams that had injuries also, those teams also probably didn't make the tourney like we didn't.
Tom Izzo has also been at Michigan State 20+ years, recruited every single player on last years team, and wasn’t trying to acclimate a bunch of new players into a new system in year 2. Please tell me you understand the difference? Had this happened in year 5 or 6 with Archie, he doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt either. But to not understand how shuffling a new lineup/rotation almost night in and night out with an already young team who isn’t acclimated with one another might impact IU’s chance of winning is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.
Tom Izzo is a better coach than Archie is the difference. Also, you have heard dumber things. Whenever words come out of your mouth everyday.
By the way, which days do you troll Purdue boards? Do switch back and forth between boards day to day or is it some other pattern?
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actually we almost
actually we almost made the tournament...so in a since, we could say Archie coached a hell of a season...just wasn't a normal injury season. a lot of teams lose a star player to a knee injury or twisted ankle here and there, but to have 8 injured players with two missing bacically the whole season and your true star playing with a jacked up wrist the whole season, and one thing that gets left out, is Juwan playing out of position 90% of the time, getting wore out. i think it would have been a total different situation with just a normal injury season. i think we do over come some of the injuries, we just couldn't overcome all of them. not good timing of some of these injuries too. i do think Archie can do a better job, but imagine if he does and our injuries are normal, could be exciting again!!!
IU’s already healthier next year than they were last year. Davis was back to playing 20 mpg at the end of the year. Race firmly supplanted Moore and Forrester the last 8 games of the year. And not only are they healthier, they add depth with Brunk and TJD. The only player I’m worried about is Jerome Hunter. Hunter’s health probably determines IU ceiling next year, but even if Hunter doesn’t player, next years team is a) a year older b) deeper c) healthier than it was last year.
Devonte Green is going to replace Romeo in IR16 fantasy world
He already penciled him in for 15 a game.
There’s only so many minutes in a game Einstein. Add one for a player and you have to subtract one from someone else. It’s pretty basic math kid.
No. I’ve already stated my piece on Morgan and Romeo in multiple other threads. Yes I don’t foresee IU replicating either of those two with just one player. But you need more than 2 players to win basketball games. IU last year lacked any kind of decent rotation due to either a) injuries and or b) inexperience. I’m not worried in the least about IU as a team picking up the production lost from last year. Teams lose best players every year and scoring has to come from somewhere. Sometimes it’s replicated with a single replacement, other time it’s a team effort, I don’t foresee that becoming an issue next year. Shooting becomes de-facto better next year as Romeo and Morgan were 2/3 of our worst volume shooters.
Uhhhh ya think? If Hunter’s healthy, Fitzner maybe plays 2-3 mpg instead of 12 and Smith 16-17 mpg instead of 25, that’s 17-18 mpg for Hunter right there you dotard.
Or just take Anderson, Moore, and Forresters minutes. Along with a couple of Juwans, Ftiz', Smiths, Durham and Langfords.
He's probably having pudding withdraw and needs a another nap.
I mean yeah, a versatile player like Hunter can play the 4 or out on the wing. I was just using minutes at the 4, but if healthy I think he plays closer to 23-24 mpg. Had Thompson been healthy, he likely takes the bulk of the unnecessary minutes Davis had to play at the start of the season and Forrester and Moore likely don’t see the floor outside mop up duty last year.
Nobody is denying that injuries played a part. They just don't excuse everything that went wrong with the season. Seriously there's nothing wrong with saying injuries played a part but also admit Archie needs to be held accountable for the lack of effort, mental toughness, and the horrendous offense at times. Some of you act like the coach is never to blame no matter what.
I bet if you even ask Archie, he would admit that injuries weren't the only factor in the season going downhill. Criticism isn't bad from time to time, not everything is sunshine and rainbows (especially the last 3 years). Archie's a big boy he can handle it, and I'm looking forward to seeing how he responds.
Criticism is fine and Archie isn’t above being criticized. But deeming he’s already a failure with no chance of success after only 2 years and demanding he be fired isn’t right.
I've done neither, I don't want him fired yet or anything. I'm just saying he needs to take a step forward this year and get to the tournament.
Stop using injuries as the blanket excuse for the season and at least admit that other things came into play as well. Making excuses for poor performance causes people to get complacent, and complacently is how you get stuck with 9 mediocre years of Tom Crean.
i guess what im trying to say is, if we don't have all the injuries, i think games would have been different to where there wouldn't be such a drag on Archies coaching. yes there were some decisions and motivations in some games that did not look good, but with that being said, i don't think that happens if we have Hunter, Race, Davis, Romeo, Green, Rob, McBob, Al, and Juwan fresh from not playing out of position...damn look at that, that's literally 8/13 players missing time...good reason to look like a terrible coach, which actully i think we pieced it together better than most...the situation with recruiting, i think the deal with the two scholarships left, i think he would have thought it would have been on e at the most, but with Brooks going to the Cats, we have two. i don't think Archie want to give them out like Crean for just filling in bodies...probably will be a big class next year..
Almost made the tournament....that is the most Tom Crean thing I have heard in a while. I hope Archie hangs a banner for the most injured team to ever play a season in the NCAA because they almost made the tournament.
With regards to Juwan playing out of position....Juwan was MORE effective playing out of position than he was playing the position he wanted to play.
Archie did a great job of making adjustments...but this year had several games where pregame prep was garbage. IE look at all the slow starts...lack luster efforts...getting down big early, only to fall short in comeback attempts.
Blaming injuries is lazy...there were plenty of opportunities to win games we lost even with the injuries we suffered.
I seriously doubt that.
But I’m willing to bet a team with GREATER injuries wouldn’t have made the NCAA. Can you tell us who that college basketball team was?
I can’t totally disagree with this assessment.
If this team would have had competent leadership it would have gone a long way toward reversing some of those losses.
True.
But look at their experience.
Look at their level of talent.
Most importantly, understand Izzo having been there for 23 years and having established a culture that is conducive to winning played a HUGE role in what they did.
All three things IU didn’t have - which, combined with the injuries, led to them missing the dance.
By a game.
Yeah, it was ALL COACHING . . .
IT NEVER EXISTED...IU WAS THE MOST INJURED TEAM EVERRRRRRRR.
I hope they hang a banner to commemorate it
I’m not saying you specifically said that, but there are a lot of people on here, given the choice, would have already sent Archie packing.
Again injuries aren’t the end be all excuse. But when you’re only in year 2 trying to not only re-establish, but a build a new culture, it’s extremely tough when you’re constantly shuffling line-ups and rotations. You don’t think slow starts may be impacted due to the numerous lineup combinations last year? Or we suffered long droughts because guys like McRoberts, Fitzner, and Clifton Moore were all on the floor together? Looking for progression while also acknowledging the constraints of having to shuffle different lineups are two different things. Archie is nowhere near Crean territory, it’s ludicrous to act like IU fans are getting complacent because IU hasn’t done anything about Archie. Excuses or not, he’s going to get 4 years and deserves at least 4 years regardless.
Basically this is my belief, we just weren't that good....yet.
Injuries didn't help. I mean people have no idea how we could lose any games with Romeo and Juwan...but if Romeo's injury impacted his shooting, passing, handle, etc then he wasn't this super all star. An injury does that to performance.
Eric Gordon was the most impressive scoring freshman I've seen at ol IU...until he cracked his wrist. Then he went from incredible to just 'solid' or 'good'.
Rob obviously wasn't the same after he cracked his noggin til around the Purdue home game.
Race was one of the scrimmage MVP's and then severly cracked his noggin.
Davis couldn't play more than 15 minutes coming off the achillies. Wanna know how bad an achillies is for a big man. DeMarcus Cousins was a top 5 NBA producer until his achillies, took him about a year and he came back as a 15 minute bench player for the Warriors.
Anyway, if you believe the injuries are valid or not...we just weren't that good.
We started two freshman and two sophomores with no starter being over 6'8". We were undersized and under physical.
The big ten is a bruising league. Some say it's tackle basketball.
You're not going to be successful if you're getting whipped physically.
The good news is we are older, more experienced in our schemes and bigger, taller, bulkier.
We'll see.
Yet you think Race is going to play 10? And Fitzner 2? Did you not see how bad Race was when he played?
I did, did you? Fitzner provided nothing. Had zero interior game and was by and away our worst defender of any rotational player. Race Thompson was at least a competent defender off the bench. That couldn’t be said for Fitzner, Moore, or Forrester. And that was our rotation for a good a month in a half in the B10.
Not bad at all for a guy who had a SERIOUS concussion.
Like with Rob - imagine having had a bad concussion and then trying to play all out aggressive. Anyone who thinks that wouldn't impact your play has never had a concussion.
I'm going to stick to my crazy theory that Izzo is an elite coach and Archie isn't, thus it was coaching. You can stick with your theory it was injuries, experience, and etc. Also, winning 18 games and making the tourney doesn't change anything.
Change your mindset to most mid-major coaches flame out like Tommy basketball and you will have a different outlook.
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That's your issue and your prerogative. You're trying to extrapolate two different situations into one. Archie Miller doesn't have anywhere near the experience that Tom Izzo has, that's why Tom Izzo is generally regarded as one of the best basketball coaches in the game. His been at MSU 23 years. He recruited every single player on that roster last year. That team has played together all 4 years. And while Tom Izzo had some injuries he still had not only plenty of talent, but DEPTH, depth being the key word. You can overcome an injury to Josh Langford when you have 2-3 upperclassmen who have all been in his system and playing together. You can overcome the loss of Nick Ward for a few weeks when you have a top 100 player playing behind him. Archie couldn't overcome that this year night in and night out without any kind of consistent rotation.
You'll never hear me argue that IU didn't underachieve last year, but I'm willing to give a coach in year 2 the benefit of the doubt that he struggled putting together lineups with all the injuries that occurred. If this happened in year 5 or 6, let alone year 23 like it happened with Izzo he doesn't get that benefit of the doubt. As good of individual talents as Romeo and Juwan were, you just aren't going to win consistently if players 3-7 are consistently hurt/unavailable. This was a problem for IU nearly all year last year. It is what it is.
I thought Tuesdays are for trolling Purdue boards?
So, you readily admit that Archie underachieve and agree with me. Thanks. If you want to want to continue to think he is an elite coach, so be it. I base my opinions (predictions) on what has happened and what I think is most probable.
Where have I ever said that IU didn't have a disappointing year last year? Where have I ever said that he's an elite coach? He's been at IU two years. I'll reserve my judgement on any coach until he's had ample time to construct his own roster and implement his system with players he's recruited. Asinine to judge otherwise. I hope you're miserable for the next two years although I'm sure you can handle as you've probably been a miserable prick your entire life.
https://purdue.forums.rivals.com/th...0-recruiting-class.171807/page-3#post-2226128
There is the link for you. Scroll down. I'll quote it for you to save time.
"In a heartbeat. And that's not because I dislike Coach Miller, I think he'll end up at IU for a long time once he gets his guys and roster in place, but Calipari is the best of the best."
So, you think he will be there a long time, but you also don't think he is an elite coach? Gotcha. I would also classify that as a judgement. Do you always talk out of your a@#? You're a lying troll, Purdue Pete.
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