Here’s a meeting location for you to whine and troll all you want. You know who you are. Have at it.
Meeting of the Negative Nancy Club.
- Thread starter Aloha Hoosier
- Start date
VanPastorMan
Hall of Famer
What's the name of that winery near New Albany where Coach Miller goes every year? These folks should go there.
Some people think mediocrity is fine. I don't!
Some people complain endlessly about things. Others try to have a positive attitude. Some are middle of the road. And that leaves either apathy or those that are medically challenged.
Regardless where one is, it would really be a wonderful world if we would just listen and respond with empathy.
I personally am in the cup is half full area. I like to be positive and sharing that view. I don't disregard other points of view. And I may at times ignore some trolls.
But some of my positive feelings about the current head coach come from my own experiences over here in Dayton OH. I saw Archie Miller get his type of players that fit Dayton and their conference. I saw how his teams got better through each year. They didn't give up. They hustled. They really were teams that helped each other with more than just assists. His called plays out of timeouts were effective. And he was flexible.
So Nancy, keep on in your negative mode. I am buying tickets and going to the games when I can. And I am going to enjoy the ride...while you are not. And no I am not satisfied with average or worse performance.
It will be interesting to see who the team leader on the floor will be. And who will score the points. And who will end up on the bench once the coach has the luxury of sitting those that don't perform.
Are you proclaiming that you’re a member of the Negative Nancy Whine and Troll Club?
I get a certain level criticism and overall disappointment in Miller's first two times at bat, as I have have noted several red flags myself.
That being said, IU fans should be pretty pumped for the next two seasons. I have IU forecast to be approx #16- #18 in roster strength this season and #8- #10 next season as things stand now. My roster ratings have IU in almost the exact situation as it was entering into the 2012 and 2013 seasons. I had IU #22 entering the 2012 season and #8 entering the 2013 campaign.
I get that my ratings are simplistic in nature and flawed, but they tend to be a pretty decent baseline and have been very useful in my hoops gambling endeavors. If IU continues to underachieve relative to my ratings, my opinion of Miller will continue to deteriorate accordingly.
I think that those who already have all the evidence they need to want Miller replaced are harming their own agenda by talking about how bad IU will be this season. Setting the bar so low that merely making the NCAA Tournament becomes an accomplishment is a poor recipe for initiating change, if that's the direction you are leaning.
Currently, I am squarely in the camp that has been very disappointed to date, but very optimistic about the immediate future. I'm not sure how big of a camp that is, but I'm in it. My bug-out bag is at the ready though
What factors and characteristics do you use to compile your player ratings?I get a certain level criticism and overall disappointment in Miller's first two times at bat, as I have have noted several red flags myself.
That being said, IU fans should be pretty pumped for the next two seasons. I have IU forecast to be approx #16- #18 in roster strength this season and #8- #10 next season as things stand now. My roster ratings have IU in almost the exact situation as it was entering into the 2012 and 2013 seasons. I had IU #22 entering the 2012 season and #8 entering the 2013 campaign.
I get that my ratings are simplistic in nature and flawed, but they tend to be a pretty decent baseline and have been very useful in my hoops gambling endeavors. If IU continues to underachieve relative to my ratings, my opinion of Miller will continue to deteriorate accordingly.
I think that those who already have all the evidence they need to want Miller replaced are harming their own agenda by talking about how bad IU will be this season. Setting the bar so low that merely making the NCAA Tournament becomes an accomplishment is a poor recipe for initiating change, if that's the direction you are leaning.
Currently, I am squarely in the camp that has been very disappointed to date, but very optimistic about the immediate future. I'm not sure how big of a camp that is, but I'm in it. My bug-out bag is at the ready though
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So where did you have us last year? I doubt it was outside the top 68. And it had to be above where we are this year.I get a certain level criticism and overall disappointment in Miller's first two times at bat, as I have have noted several red flags myself.
That being said, IU fans should be pretty pumped for the next two seasons. I have IU forecast to be approx #16- #18 in roster strength this season and #8- #10 next season as things stand now. My roster ratings have IU in almost the exact situation as it was entering into the 2012 and 2013 seasons. I had IU #22 entering the 2012 season and #8 entering the 2013 campaign.
I get that my ratings are simplistic in nature and flawed, but they tend to be a pretty decent baseline and have been very useful in my hoops gambling endeavors. If IU continues to underachieve relative to my ratings, my opinion of Miller will continue to deteriorate accordingly.
I think that those who already have all the evidence they need to want Miller replaced are harming their own agenda by talking about how bad IU will be this season. Setting the bar so low that merely making the NCAA Tournament becomes an accomplishment is a poor recipe for initiating change, if that's the direction you are leaning.
Currently, I am squarely in the camp that has been very disappointed to date, but very optimistic about the immediate future. I'm not sure how big of a camp that is, but I'm in it. My bug-out bag is at the ready though
It's based on recruiting rankings and experience. There is a weighted calculation that produces the roster score. The color of the squares represent as follows; Grey= average Power Conference Starter, Yellow= Possible All-Conference Watch List Candidate, Red= Possible National Awards Watch List Candidate, Teal colored rating= Likely Rotation Player.
I found that many times teams would seem to be performing closer to the following years rating level by Tournament time, so my roster strength calculations have been a combination of current years rating and the next seasons rating for the past 7 or 8 years.
Here is this years roster...
.... and here is the roster as it stood in 20012 along with the recruiting class
Here is last years IU roster w/comments
The Hoosiers are a bit of a wildcard in that, even though they have talent, Juwan Morgan is the only one of their 9 highly touted prospects to play down the stretch last season. IU's #18 ranked roster is carried by Morgan, Frosh phenom Romeo Langford and Junior big-man Deron Davis. Davis though has an injury cloud hanging over him for the upcoming and if he's unable to log Top 4 minutes, this roster tumbles to around #40.
The inclination here is to expect IU to be very good regardless of the availability of Davis. Coach Miller returns a potential rising star in Justin Smith along with redshirt frosh Race Thompson and intriguing soph Clifton Moore. Add in St. Mary's transfer Evan Fitzner and the (4,4,4) rated Jake Forrester to the front court mix, and one gets the feeling that Miller is excited about his well stocked cupboard up front. Coach's dream Zach McRoberts will surely find ways to contribute as well, though it's not clear how, at this point, with the likes of #54 rated Jerome Hunter and (4,4,4) rated Damezi Anderson also fighting for wing minutes.
The combination of Morgan and Langford promises to be lethal, but just how good the Hoosiers end up being may ultimately be decided by the point guard position, which has been unreliable (put kindly) since the departure of Yogi Ferrell. Frosh Rob Phinisee (4,4,4) could step right in, but we're expecting a breakout season from junior Devonte Green. Green made a splash early last season playing shoe-less, but more often than not seemed clue-less as the season wore on. It's expected that a full year under Miller's tutelage will begin to tap into Green's obvious potential. Al Durham at times was the only trustworthy point a year ago.
Last years entire Big Ten page with predictions (not good) can be found here. https://thediaperdandy.blogspot.com/p/big-ten-18-19.html
Thanks for the info. I do disagree on your one point about Davis. He played 30 out of 35 games last year. I’m really not sure where this myth came from that he was injured most of the year.Here is last years IU roster w/comments
The Hoosiers are a bit of a wildcard in that, even though they have talent, Juwan Morgan is the only one of their 9 highly touted prospects to play down the stretch last season. IU's #18 ranked roster is carried by Morgan, Frosh phenom Romeo Langford and Junior big-man Deron Davis. Davis though has an injury cloud hanging over him for the upcoming and if he's unable to log Top 4 minutes, this roster tumbles to around #40.
The inclination here is to expect IU to be very good regardless of the availability of Davis. Coach Miller returns a potential rising star in Justin Smith along with redshirt frosh Race Thompson and intriguing soph Clifton Moore. Add in St. Mary's transfer Evan Fitzner and the (4,4,4) rated Jake Forrester to the front court mix, and one gets the feeling that Miller is excited about his well stocked cupboard up front. Coach's dream Zach McRoberts will surely find ways to contribute as well, though it's not clear how, at this point, with the likes of #54 rated Jerome Hunter and (4,4,4) rated Damezi Anderson also fighting for wing minutes.
The combination of Morgan and Langford promises to be lethal, but just how good the Hoosiers end up being may ultimately be decided by the point guard position, which has been unreliable (put kindly) since the departure of Yogi Ferrell. Frosh Rob Phinisee (4,4,4) could step right in, but we're expecting a breakout season from junior Devonte Green. Green made a splash early last season playing shoe-less, but more often than not seemed clue-less as the season wore on. It's expected that a full year under Miller's tutelage will begin to tap into Green's obvious potential. Al Durham at times was the only trustworthy point a year ago.
Last years entire Big Ten page with predictions (not good) can be found here. https://thediaperdandy.blogspot.com/p/big-ten-18-19.html
No problem. Keep in mind that I was referring to an injury cloud hanging over Davis coming into last season, which there certainly was. I was pleasantly surprised by how much IU was able to get out of Deron, but even at that, he only played just over 400 minutes ranking 7th on the team.
Thanks for the insight.It's based on recruiting rankings and experience. There is a weighted calculation that produces the roster score. The color of the squares represent as follows; Grey= average Power Conference Starter, Yellow= Possible All-Conference Watch List Candidate, Red= Possible National Awards Watch List Candidate, Teal colored rating= Likely Rotation Player.
I found that many times teams would seem to be performing closer to the following years rating level by Tournament time, so my roster strength calculations have been a combination of current years rating and the next seasons rating for the past 7 or 8 years.
Here is this years roster...
.... and here is the roster as it stood in 20012 along with the recruiting class
That’s fair. But you’d have to adjust other teams for injuries as well. In college basketball injuries are very common on every team.
Absolutely! Usually, with achilles injuries, I don't even consider the player in my ratings until the 2nd year back... if ever. As an IU fan, I included Deron simply based on the fact that a full year would have passed by the second half of conference play... and I didn't care for the #40 roster ranking without Deron
#40 in my ratings (which only includes the Power 6 basketball conference + a few highly touted teams like Gonzaga and Nevada last season) puts you on the wrong side of the bubble. I just couldn't see IU missing the tourney last year, so I included Deron with the caveat that he needed to be healthy enough to log starter minutes to stay out of the #40 slot and realize the #18 potential.
Imagine if guys Blackmon Jr, Hartman, OG, and Morgan all faced injuries....surely the coach would get a pass...especially coming off a B10 Championship...
The injuries last year pale in comparison.
I’d say outside of Hoosier Nation...the IU injuries went unnoticed by the rest of the conference.
It is likely that Crean was not let go based on the performance of one year. The whole body of work showed clearly that Crean was not going to recruit to a plan, was not going to emphasize defense, was not going to recruit Indiana, was going to overhype and underperform, did not utilize his players to the betterment of the team overall, and did not satisfy the AD's must do list.
So stating that the coach would get a pass because of some injuries in one year after ...what...a decade is not compelling.
And OSU fans over here in Dayton noticed the injuries on IU's team that depressed the wins. Heck, went to the IU vs OSU game with Dayton friends that graduated from OSU..they noticed and talked about it
Hell, outside of Phinesees concussion time, I cant recall what they were...
Just saying IU has faced much worse injuries in season to major contributors, unlike last year.
And, every team faces minor injuries all season, not unlike IU’s injuries last year.
So, we finished 38 on Sagarin, and 53rd on Pom. That 40 prediction was pretty good.Absolutely! Usually, with achilles injuries, I don't even consider the player in my ratings until the 2nd year back... if ever. As an IU fan, I included Deron simply based on the fact that a full year would have passed by the second half of conference play... and I didn't care for the #40 roster ranking without Deron
#40 in my ratings (which only includes the Power 6 basketball conference + a few highly touted teams like Gonzaga and Nevada last season) puts you on the wrong side of the bubble. I just couldn't see IU missing the tourney last year, so I included Deron with the caveat that he needed to be healthy enough to log starter minutes to stay out of the #40 slot and realize the #18 potential.
True, and in KenPom IU was 43rd among teams that I rated. Teams like Wofford, Lipscomb and Belmont don't land the highly touted type of players required to make the cut. Not that I don't enjoy watching them play, but I'm not trying to rank all 351 schools based on recruiting rankings and experience.
The #40 rating turned out to be on the money, but my own crimson colored glasses interpretation of roster strength led me to also predict that IU would upset the apple cart and win the Big Ten regardless of Deron's availability... silly. That said, at least I made predictions and showed my work
as opposed to just being reactionary.
cryano can't remember D'Ron Davis heel injury or Juwan Morgan's dislocated shoulder and bad back? And then compares what he can't remember to previous years?
Undefeated National Champions isnt unreasonable
Juwan played 35 games, Deron 30,...
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/84/indiana-hoosiers
True, and in KenPom IU was 43rd among teams that I rated. Teams like Wofford, Lipscomb and Belmont don't land the highly touted type of players required to make the cut. Not that I don't enjoy watching them play, but I'm not trying to rank all 351 schools based on recruiting rankings and experience.
The #40 rating turned out to be on the money, but my own crimson colored glasses interpretation of roster strength led me to also predict that IU would upset the apple cart and win the Big Ten regardless of Deron's availability... silly. That said, at least I made predictions and showed my work
It wasn't silly at all. With a fully healthy roster we had a 15 to 20 range team. Losing Hunter, Davis being gimped. Romeo's hand. McBobs back plus all the other little injuries and the chemistry issues and things like Smith not developing, Fitzner turning out to be a ballerina etc.. .. it adds up. I believe we underperformed a bit. It happens to every coach once in awhile, the key is it not happening consistently.
IIRC we had a full practice roster, not counting Hunter, for 3 games total. Izzo bitched and complained about not being able to practice properly after a week where he had two guys down and Langford out. Hell Miller did that all year. If you've ever played on a team or in a band, or did anything else that requires timing and synergy as a group to perform well that's very disruptive.
YDS
Deron played in 30 games - but AVERAGED 13.6 minutes/game. Up until the game at Michigan St, he had played a TOTAL of 15 minutes since the start of 2019. FIFTEEN MINUTES!!
“But DeRon played in 30 games . . .”
That’s the issue with a lot of these people - they have no clue how teams are put together or what makes them be successful.
He was obviously still gimped at the end of the season. Anyone saying differently is either dumb or misrepresenting the truth or most likely both. The person you're talking to is either a troll, or an idiot, or both, as they're on my troll and idiot list.YDS
Deron played in 30 games - but AVERAGED 13.6 minutes/game. Up until the game at Michigan St, he had played a TOTAL of 15 minutes since the start of 2019. FIFTEEN MINUTES!!
“But DeRon played in 30 games . . .”
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Especially at this high of level of expected competency. The difference in IU being a 53rd team last year and the 27th team is probably one or two possessions a game. All the small things add up and there's a very fine line between good and bad.
Agreed - All the reason in game coaching has shown to be so disappointing...
lol
So now it's Archie's "in game coaching of crucial possessions" that's the fault now, huh? And you can give us a clinical breakdown of those gaffes, right?
Lol...but Taz does. I’ll accept we’re all idiots but that includes your side as well
I'll say this: you are one of the more reasonable posters on here (low bar, I know . .Lol...but Taz does. I’ll accept we’re all idiots but that includes your side as well
) - in all seriousness, even though we don't necessarily agree on some stuff you at least show a bit of common sense. That is truly lacking with many on here.Similar threads
