Meeting of the Negative Nancy Club.

[snarlcakes]

Again, if I’m living in a “fantasy land”, provide us the team that overcame what IU struggled with this year.

Does Archie need to be better? Without question. But this year’s failures went far beyond his coaching (or lack thereof).

It’s real simple: you (and others) try to say a better coaching job would have been the difference. That might be so - so who is the coach who pulled off that job? Who had two freshmen guards - one playing the majority of the season with a torn thumb ligament; the other going down with a concussion. The coach whose primary post player was 6-8, 232lbs playing against guys 2-3 inches taller and 20-50 lbs heavier.

If coaching was the issue, then SOMEONE should have already done what you say Archie should have been able to do. So who is it?

I already provided MSU and Virginia in 2011-12. If you make up enough caveats it will eventually become impossible.

Also, I don't watch every team and don't worry about how injured other teams are. The only reason I knew the Virginia example is because one of their fans posted it. If you can find someone who does study this, feel free to provide the information.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

I'm calling you out for living in a fantasy land and providing facts to disprove your theories. You're the one who randomly chose the game that Phin was healthy without having a clue about his health. Not me.

Again, if I’m living in a “fantasy land”, provide us the team that overcame what IU struggled with this year.

Does Archie need to be better? Without question. But this year’s failures went far beyond his coaching (or lack thereof).

It’s real simple: you (and others) try to say a better coaching job would have been the difference. That might be so

Fire Archie. Right now. Sign Coach Dale.

We know he can work miracles . . .

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

I already provided MSU and Virginia in 2011-12.

I already provided a comparison on Michigan St in late April - Roster Construction 2019 - 2021

Here is a link to Virginia's roster from 2011-12.

Here is a link to Indiana's roster from 2018-19.

Wahoos had 3 RSCI players, IU 4 (although Hunter never played a single minute).

Here is a season review of Virginia Basketball 2011-12. In it we find out:

*Assane Sene was injured in the game at Georgia Tech and lost for the season. He missed the last 14 games (including ACC Tournament) before UVA played Florida in the NCAA Tournament.
*Malcolm Brogdon broke his foot late in the year. Missed the last 4 games (including ACC Tournament) before the NCAA's.
*Joe Smith injured his hand in the game at North Carolina - played the last 7 games (including ACC Tournament) before the NCAA's.

That's 25 games missed/impacted by injury. 25 games.

Now, Indiana 2018-19:

*Lost Hunter for the entire season - 35 games.
*Lost Race Thompson for 25 games (concussion - so bad he couldn't even go to class)
*Lost Green for 4 games total (thigh bruise)
*Lost Phinisee for 3 games with a concussion.
*Romeo injured the thumb ligament in his right (shooting) hand in the Duke game. Played the rest of the year (25 games, including BTT) with the hand in a heavy wrap.

We're not even counting the games Phin was playing at less than 100% from his concussion, that from Jan 1 up until the first Michigan St game DeRon played a TOTAL of just 15 minutes.

And conference rankings? In 2012, the ACC was the 6th best conference - behind the SEC and even the Mountain West. Five ACC schools qualified for the dance. In 2019 the B1G was ranked the 2nd best, with 8 teams qualifying. In 2012, Virginia's SOS was 192; their NC-SOS was 308. IU in 2019 had a SOS of 27, with a NC-SOS of 207.

Will give you credit - you found somebody close. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Not here.

-

Also, I don't watch every team and don't worry about how injured other teams are.

Then educate yourself. Google is your best friend in that regard. If you're gonna make arguments, back them up.

 

[snarlcakes]

I already provided a comparison on Michigan St in late April - Roster Construction 2019 - 2021

Here is a link to Virginia's roster from 2011-12.

Here is a link to Indiana's roster from 2018-19.

Wahoos had 3 RSCI players, IU 4 (although Hunter never played a single minute).

Here is a season review of Virginia Basketball 2011-12. In it we find out:

*Assane Sene was injured in the game at Georgia Tech and lost for the season. He missed the last 14 games (including ACC Tournament) before UVA played Florida in the NCAA Tournament.
*Malcolm Brogdon broke his foot late in the year. Missed the last 4 games (including ACC Tournament) before the NCAA's.
*Joe Smith injured his hand in the game at North Carolina - played the last 7 games (including ACC Tournament) before the NCAA's.

That's 25 games missed/impacted by injury. 25 games.

Now, Indiana 2018-19:

*Lost Hunter for the entire season - 35 games.
*Lost Race Thompson for 25 games (concussion - so bad he couldn't even go to class)
*Lost Green for 4 games total (thigh bruise)
*Lost Phinisee for 3 games with a concussion.
*Romeo injured the thumb ligament in his right (shooting) hand in the Duke game. Played the rest of the year (25 games, including BTT) with the hand in a heavy wrap.

We're not even counting the games Phin was playing at less than 100% from his concussion, that from Jan 1 up until the first Michigan St game DeRon played a TOTAL of just 15 minutes.

And conference rankings? In 2012, the ACC was the 6th best conference - behind the SEC and even the Mountain West. Five ACC schools qualified for the dance. In 2019 the B1G was ranked the 2nd best, with 8 teams qualifying. In 2012, Virginia's SOS was 192; their NC-SOS was 308. IU in 2019 had a SOS of 27, with a NC-SOS of 207.

Will give you credit - you found somebody close. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Not here.

-


Then educate yourself. Google is your best friend in that regard. If you're gonna make arguments, back them up.

Before you spike the football, perhaps you can click on that 2nd link again and explain why K.T. Harrell missed 21 games, S. Zeglinski missed 2 games, D. Atkins missed 5 games, and P. Jesperson missed 11? I have no clue because I don't follow Virginia and it was 7 years ago.

I thought I was being kind I didn't make any arguments. I provided two examples for a disingenuous and ridiculous argument you were making because your head over heals for Archie.

Also, since we get to make silly arguments. I have one for you. Find me a Power 5 school who had 2 all conference players, a top 15 NBA pick in the same seasons draft, at least 8 4/5 star players on their roster, 9 healthy scholarship players each game and didn't make the tourney?

Edit: I'm being facetious, but I think there is a team. After double checking they just missed the 2 all conference criteria. Try guessing it without looking it up? I'd say you win something, but I have no prizes to give.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Before you spike the football, perhaps you can click on that 2nd link again and explain why K.T. Harrell missed 21 games, S. Zeglinski missed 2 games, D. Atkins missed 5 games, and P. Jesperson missed 11? I have no clue because I don't follow Virginia and it was 7 years ago.

I thought I was being kind I didn't make any arguments. I provided two examples for a disingenuous and ridiculous argument you were making because your head over heals for Archie.

Also, since we get to make silly arguments. I have one for you. Find me a Power 5 school who had 2 all conference players, a top 15 NBA pick in same seasons draft, at least 8 4/5 star players on their roster, 9 healthy scholarship players each game and didn't make the tourney?

Edit: I'm being facetious, but I think there is a team. After double checking they just missed the 2 all conference criteria. Try guessing it without looking it up? I'd say you win something, but I have no prizes to give.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Before you spike the football, perhaps you can click on that 2nd link again and explain why K.T. Harrell missed 21 games, S. Zeglinski missed 2 games, D. Atkins missed 5 games, and P. Jesperson missed 11?

If we're gonna go that route, why does what Archie did at Dayton in 2014-15 not get acknowledged? Played at least half the season with only 6 scholarship players and NO ONE over 6-6. Yet they made the NCAA's as an At-large team.

You want to say "Oh, they were playing in a mid-level conference". Virginia in 2012 played in the 6th best conference; already provided that. Dayton in 2014-15 played in the 7th best - practically the same.

But, hey, Archie sucks. Let's fire his a$$ and get Coach Dale.

 

[snarlcakes]

If we're gonna go that route, why does what Archie did at Dayton in 2014-15 not get acknowledged? Played at least half the season with only 6 scholarship players and NO ONE over 6-6. Yet they made the NCAA's as an At-large team.

You want to say "Oh, they were playing in a mid-level conference". Virginia in 2012 played in the 6th best conference; already provided that. Dayton in 2014-15 played in the 7th best - practically the same.

But, hey, Archie sucks. Let's fire his a$$ and get Coach Dale.

Kentucky was the answer to my question. I actually said Archie in a previous post to you. I do agree that he isn’t that good. Stop being so tough on him Not a fan of Coach Dale. I’d prefer Jackie Moon if we’re going that direction.

 

[Paterfamilias]

If we're gonna go that route, why does what Archie did at Dayton in 2014-15 not get acknowledged? Played at least half the season with only 6 scholarship players and NO ONE over 6-6. Yet they made the NCAA's as an At-large team.

You want to say "Oh, they were playing in a mid-level conference". Virginia in 2012 played in the 6th best conference; already provided that. Dayton in 2014-15 played in the 7th best - practically the same.

But, hey, Archie sucks. Let's fire his a$$ and get Coach Dale.

I think the argument that you're making about the injuries is a valid one for remaining hopeful. At the same time, I totally get where some of these guys are coming from. I don't think anyone is saying "Fire him NOW!", but they have seen enough to consider his seat hot now as opposed to waiting until next spring to get the pink slip ball rolling.

Archie still has the opportunity to win some back, and I think it's a great opportunity this season. Results could potentially outdistance expectations with ease, thereby setting up another fantastic opportunity in 20-21. I've not given up on Miller, but one must get pretty clever to make a decent case for him based on seasons 1 & 2.

It's the off-season, so this is exactly what we should be hashing out, as I think most IU fans have been deliberating these points that you guys are making on both sides. It wouldn't be a surprise if the majority are right in the middle, agreeing with Tas in one post, then agreeing with Snarl or Cryano a few posts later... I do

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

I actually said Archie in a previous post to you. I do agree that he isn’t that good. Stop being so tough on him

Damn . . .tried the "flip the argument" tactic and it blew up bigtime . . .

 

[cryano]

I think the argument that you're making about the injuries is a valid one for remaining hopeful. At the same time, I totally get where some of these guys are coming from. I don't think anyone is saying "Fire him NOW!", but they have seen enough to consider his seat hot now as opposed to waiting until next spring to get the pink slip ball rolling.

Archie still has the opportunity to win some back, and I think it's a great opportunity this season. Results could potentially outdistance expectations with ease, thereby setting up another fantastic opportunity in 20-21. I've not given up on Miller, but one must get pretty clever to make a decent case for him based on seasons 1 & 2.

It's the off-season, so this is exactly what we should be hashing out, as I think most IU fans have been deliberating these points that you guys are making on both sides. It wouldn't be a surprise if the majority are right in the middle, agreeing with Tas in one post, then agreeing with Snarl or Cryano a few posts later... I do

Get that shtick out of here - no place here for reasonableness...Pick a Side!

jk...good post...I’d like to lean more towards the middle or full of hope...but havent seen much yet to get there. When I see it, I will. Winning fixes a lot of issues.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

I think the argument that you're making about the injuries is a valid one for remaining hopeful. At the same time, I totally get where some of these guys are coming from. I don't think anyone is saying "Fire him NOW!", but they have seen enough to consider his seat hot now as opposed to waiting until next spring to get the pink slip ball rolling.

Archie still has the opportunity to win some back, and I think it's a great opportunity this season. Results could potentially outdistance expectations with ease, thereby setting up another fantastic opportunity in 20-21. I've not given up on Miller, but one must get pretty clever to make a decent case for him based on seasons 1 & 2.

It's the off-season, so this is exactly what we should be hashing out, as I think most IU fans have been deliberating these points that you guys are making on both sides. It wouldn't be a surprise if the majority are right in the middle, agreeing with Tas in one post, then agreeing with Snarl or Cryano a few posts later... I do

Fair statement.

Offense Archie could definitely stand to improve on. Again, he could be better.

But trying to lay it all at his feet I just can't see, at least looking at it objectively.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Get that shtick out of here - no place here for reasonableness...Pick a Side!

Are you a hater or a sunshine blower, @Paterfamilias ? Do you have identity issues??

 

[IndyResident16]

I don't think anyone is saying "Fire him NOW!",

Ha if it were up to Snarlcakes and Cryano Archie would have been fired yesterday. I hope they're miserable for the next two years win or lose.

 

[Paterfamilias]

Are you a hater or a sunshine blower, @Paterfamilias ? Do you have identity issues??

I'm an in-season hater and an off-season sunshine blower

I like Archie's roster building and philosophy. It hasn't translated to the court yet, but I'm not that big on teams that are too dependent on true-Frosh (especially in the backcourt). Last year was super disappointing, but I like where the roster is right now much more than I have in a long time. Waffler!

 

[IndyResident16]

I'm an in-season hater and an off-season sunshine blower

I like Archie's roster building and philosophy. It hasn't translated to the court yet, but I'm not that big on teams that are too dependent on true-Frosh (especially in the backcourt). Last year was super disappointing, but I like where the roster is right now much more than I have in a long time. Waffler!

Hey man don't be showing that kind of optimism on here. Didn't you know, our 40 year old head coach who took a mid-major to 4 straight tournaments as an at-large has hit his concrete ceiling already.

 

[cryano]

Ha if it were up to Snarlcakes and Cryano Archie would have been fired yesterday. I hope they're miserable for the next two years win or lose.

No - Archie will get three years, and most likely a 4th.
I can be a Hoosier Basketball fan, always root for them to win, without giving a damn about the coach...
Id say just about anyone here is able to do that if you still root for IU after Knight, Davis, Sampson, Dackich, Crean, Archie etc...

I doubt anyone has liked them all, all the time...

 

[OhioBoiler51]

If we're gonna go that route, why does what Archie did at Dayton in 2014-15 not get acknowledged? Played at least half the season with only 6 scholarship players and NO ONE over 6-6. Yet they made the NCAA's as an At-large team.

You want to say "Oh, they were playing in a mid-level conference". Virginia in 2012 played in the 6th best conference; already provided that. Dayton in 2014-15 played in the 7th best - practically the same.

But, hey, Archie sucks. Let's fire his a$$ and get Coach Dale.

You didn't really just compare the Atlantic 10 to the ACC in basketball did you?

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Kentucky was the answer to my question. I actually said Archie in a previous post to you. I do agree that he isn’t that good. Stop being so tough on him Not a fan of Coach Dale. I’d prefer Jackie Moon if we’re going that direction.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

I'm an in-season hater and an off-season sunshine blower

Bull$h!t - that's a "riding the fence" answer if I ever heard one!

I like Archie's roster building and philosophy. It hasn't translated to the court yet, but I'm not that big on teams that are too dependent on true-Frosh (especially in the backcourt). Last year was super disappointing, but I like where the roster is right now much more than I have in a long time. Waffler!

Great point.

Although I'm still in a "he can do better" mode regarding Archie's coaching on the offensive end, I really like the solid defense / take care of possessions philosophy. Will it give us the sustained success we all want? Time will tell, although his approach is systemically better that the "Tom Crean-going-to-outscore-you" approach.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

You didn't really just compare the Atlantic 10 to the ACC in basketball did you?

Traffic slow over at Urine & Black?

 

[OhioBoiler51]

Traffic slow over at Urine & Black?

Yea it's basically impossible to defend that comparison so not surprised to see you go this route now.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Yea it's basically impossible to defend that comparison so not surprised to see you go this route now.

You're a Boiler on an IU board and you really thought we'd play nice?

BTW - the ranking on strength are what they are. Is that an every year comparison? NO - but those two seasons were referenced; hence, the comparison.

 

[Paterfamilias]

Bull$h!t - that's a "riding the fence" answer if I ever heard one!



Great point.

Although I'm still in a "he can do better" mode regarding Archie's coaching on the offensive end, I really like the solid defense / take care of possessions philosophy. Will it give us the sustained success we all want? Time will tell, although his approach is systemically better that the "Tom Crean-going-to-outscore-you" approach.

Archie was the answer for everything I longed for during the Crean days. People say Crean's a terrible coach, but to my way of thinking he was a really good coach with a highly flawed philosophy. I think that is why a Crean coached team never won a tournament of any kind; his philosophy has a roller coaster of variability built in to it. It can be exciting and even beautiful when clicking, but it's too easily run off the rails.

Miller was the philosophical answer to my cream and crimson prayers (recruiting too), but is he going to be great at getting his team to execute said philosophy? Many don't like the style of play or the recruiting... and they might be right.

After next season, if there are still toe-to-toe forum battles about Miller, I will have probably been flipped fully into the hater camp.

 

[OhioBoiler51]

You're a Boiler on an IU board and you really thought we'd play nice?

BTW - the ranking on strength are what they are. Is that an every year comparison? NO - but those two seasons were referenced; hence, the comparison.

Idc if you "play nice" or not. I asked if you really made that dumb of a comparison and you ignored the question for an attack because you knew how idiotic it was.

Virginia in 2012 was playing with ranked Duke, UNC, Florida st, and NC st teams. Only 1 of the schools finished in the top 10 so it was a down year for the ACC but still severely better than any A10 year. UNC and Duke still had 1 and 2 seeds in the tournament

The A10 year that you said was "practically the same" as the ACC above had Davidson, Dayton, VCU, and Rhode Island in the top 4 and only got 3 teams in the tournament as 7, 10, and 11 seeds.

Take out the teams being compared (Virginia and Dayton) and you still have the ranked ACC teams above while the A10 loses its 2nd place team and one of only 3 teams to make the tournament that year. That widens the gap between the two

LMAO! saying those two are close is one of the worst takes I've ever seen from anyone.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Idc if you "play nice" or not. I asked if you really made that dumb of a comparison and you ignored the question for an attack because you knew how idiotic it was.

Virginia in 2012 was playing with ranked Duke, UNC, Florida st, and NC st teams. Only 1 of the schools finished in the top 10 so it was a down year for the ACC but still severely better than any A10 year. UNC and Duke still had 1 and 2 seeds in the tournament

The A10 year that you said was "practically the same" as the ACC above had Davidson, Dayton, VCU, and Rhode Island in the top 4 and only got 3 teams in the tournament as 7, 10, and 11 seeds.

Take out the teams being compared (Virginia and Dayton) and you still have the ranked ACC teams above while the A10 loses its 2nd place team and one of only 3 teams to make the tournament that year. That widens the gap between the two

LMAO! saying those two are close is one of the worst takes I've ever seen from anyone.

Believe me, Boiler, I'm soooo broken hearted you feel that way . . .

Very telling that you're here on a Indiana Basketball board because of how bad it is over at Urine & Black Illustrated . . .

 

[OhioBoiler51]

Believe me, Boiler, I'm soooo broken hearted you feel that way . . .

Very telling that you're here on a Indiana Basketball board because of how bad it is over at Urine & Black Illustrated . . .

Proof again that take is too poor to defend. I rest my case

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Proof again that take is too poor to defend. I rest my case

 

[i'vegotwinners]

i still think Nancy gets a bad rap.

 

[Squonk too]

i still think Nancy gets a bad rap.

Quora thread, Aug 24, 2015:

"In 1966 President Johnson spoke of "Nervous Nellies" to refer to critics of his Vietnam policy, and the phrase caught on. Nervous Nellie acquired the connotation of "naysayer" and gave rise to similar terms like Negative Nellie, Naysayer Nellie, Negative Ned and Negative Nancy."

 

[Rangeline Fan]

#LEO

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

The Negative Nancy Whine and Troll Club is open for business. You guys can all post here again, so have at it.

 

[ThreeToMakeTwo]

Is Nancy Knight the president?

 

[rocketo]

Again, if I’m living in a “fantasy land”, provide us the team that overcame what IU struggled with this year.

Does Archie need to be better? Without question. But this year’s failures went far beyond his coaching (or lack thereof).

It’s real simple: you (and others) try to say a better coaching job would have been the difference. That might be so

Fire Archie. Right now. Sign Coach Dale.

We know he can work miracles . . .

I really hope we give Archie the time. I think he is constructing a great roster. He almost has the roster he needs. This may be the year to break through. And I believe once he breaks through, our success will climb quickly and be consistent! Really excited about what he is doing and how he is going about this. Might need one more year to break through, but I think it happens this year

 

[Victorbmyboy]

I really hope we give Archie the time. I think he is constructing a great roster. He almost has the roster he needs. This may be the year to break through. And I believe once he breaks through, our success will climb quickly and be consistent! Really excited about what he is doing and how he is going about this. Might need one more year to break through, but I think it happens this year

The key to the system he runs is roster balance. He is trying to do just that.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

The key to the system he runs is roster balance. He is trying to do just that.

The key is experience and leadership.

We had decent talent last year, but failed primarily due to young guys with no one taking charge. Really looking forward to seeing who steps up this year.