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Mass shooting at FedEx facility in Indy

All the laws about background checks and registrations won’t stop nut jobs

I somewhat agree, but if we are being honest, taking the guns out of nutjobs doesn't necessarily stop mass killings (see Europe, bombs, etc.).

I don't have an answer for how to solve it, but we are far too forgiving, passive, etc. with dangerous people with mental issues.
 
But your ultimate goal is the same, which is to deprive ordinary Americans of the right to own firearms.

So, to me, it certainly is a 2nd amendment issue.
That’s not in good faith. There are plenty (the majority) of people on the left that are willing to discuss reasonable actions. It’s imperative our side negotiate in good faith and not knee-jerk it to saying “blah you just want all our guns!” and then go silent.
 
I think I mentioned mental health.

It might be the ... THE ... issue.
But mental health is like saying fixing global warming or becoming an entrepreneur. They encompass a lot, and unless someone is specific nothing will come of it. There are a lot of services available now to people who need them.
This country has allowed/cultured an odd relationship with guns, and it will take a lot to unravel/mitigate it.
Personally, i don't care if people own guns. However, having innocent people killed by them is superfluous. It is strange that people won't give up something for the greater good.
 

One eyewitnesses reported seeing a 'man with a sub-machine gun or automatic rifle' firing in the open before people started fleeing. Two more eyewitnesses reported seeing a man getting a gun from the trunk of his car. One worker told local media they saw a body on the floor, while another said they heard 10 shots before alerting law enforcement.
Lol. Sub machine guns. People play too many vidya games.
 
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I think I mentioned mental health.

It might be the ... THE ... issue.

There is always a gun in these shootings right? This has been discussed over and over, but aside from gun numbers and access, we are not any different from other first world countries in any of the metrics you list. We just aren’t.
 
That’s not in good faith. There are plenty (the majority) of people on the left that are willing to discuss reasonable actions. It’s imperative our side negotiate in good faith and not knee-jerk it to saying “blah you just want all our guns!” and then go silent.

The problem being the word "reasonable", what they (you based on posts here) view as a reasonable action is not something that would be viewed as reasonable by the other side. In this thread we have someone saying that you should not be able to own a semiautomatic firearm. It is like saying it is reasonable to say people should not be able to own a car with any upgrades since the Model T was made.

And I freely admit that an AR15 is designed to kill people. I think it is the compromise already. Some here will try and play around the edges of this, but I won't. It is exactly the type of weapon the framers had in mind when they drew up the 2nd (a variant of the common military rifle for their time).
 
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Agreed. Though I’ll still say EASY access to guns is a contributing factor as well.
Yeah and we talk about letting the pi product lawyers loose on the manufs but that doesn’t do anything to round up the estimated 300 million plus guns already on the streets
 
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That’s not in good faith. There are plenty (the majority) of people on the left that are willing to discuss reasonable actions. It’s imperative our side negotiate in good faith and not knee-jerk it to saying “blah you just want all our guns!” and then go silent.
How on earth am I the one arguing in bad faith?

Is he not proposing repealing immunity laws as a way to get guns off the streets and then claiming it has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment?

Isn’t he essentially saying “I won’t outlaw the guns, I’ll just make it so no one will realistically be able to sell guns here”.

The end result would be the same.
 
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One. Trick. Pony.
That's not a suggestion nor a solution. Status quo isn't cutting it. When I won't take my kid to a ball game at night because of gun violence and the words active shooter roll off her tongue we have a gun problem.

and i get it. people kill; guns don't. i believe that. but so what. the outcome is the same. guns are easier to fix than people
 
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How on earth am I the one arguing in bad faith?

Is he not proposing repealing immunity laws as a way to get guns off the streets and then claiming it has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment?

Isn’t he essentially saying “I won’t outlaw the guns, I’ll just make it so no one will realistically be able to sell guns here”.

The end result would be the same.
That’s ridiculous. I’m as liberal as liberal can get. I believe women should decide how their own bodies are handled. I believe we should have universal healthcare. Those two issues aside, I hunt and I believe people should be able to own hunting rifles, shotguns and handguns (with an ~8-10 round capacity). If you need an AR15 or a handgun with a ridiculous capacity to “defend yourself”, you need to reevaluate your neighborhood. I also believe we should outlaw hollow point ammo. If you hunt with hollow points, you’re a f*****g idiot. Be
 
The problem being the word "reasonable", what they (you based on posts here) view as a reasonable action is not something that would be viewed as reasonable by the other side. In this thread we have someone saying that you should not be able to own a semiautomatic firearm. It is like saying it is reasonable to say people should not be able to own a car with any upgrades since the Model T was made.

And I freely admit that an AR15 is designed to kill people. I think it is the compromise already. Some here will try and play around the edges of this, but I won't. It is exactly the type of weapon the framers had in mind when they drew up the 2nd (a variant of the common military rifle for their time).
"It is exactly the type of weapon the framers had in mind when they drew up the 2nd (a variant of the common military rifle for their time)."

The "framers" were hardly unanimous in their view of the 2nd, despite the mythology that gun enthusiasts have spread over time. I believe you're doing a bit of that yourself,and referencing what you believe the "framers" believed, based on some pretty sketchy "quotes"...

"There’s a quote floating around the internet, attributed to George Washington in his first State of the Union Address, which says

Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that’s good.
As stirring as that quote is to some people, George Washington never wrote or said that, nor did he say anything to that effect. The likely source of that quote is an article from a 1926 issue of a magazine called Hunter-Trapper-Trader attributed to C.S. Wheatley.

George Washington is hardly the only founding father being falsely quoted like this; a Google search is all it takes to discover that the majority of pro-gun quotes commonly attributed to the founding fathers are fakes, or are taken out of context. Thomas Jefferson never wrote “the strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government;” these words were first printed by the Orlando Sentinel in the late 1980s.

Jefferson also did not say “the beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until someone tries to take it;” this quote seems to be from a fictional Jefferson in an independently-published novel called On A Hill They Call Capital (sic.)

John Adams, who was famously suspicious of unrest among common people, would never have declared “arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self defense,” and Alexander Hamilton could never have said “the best we can help for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed” in the 184th Federalist Paper, as is claimed on a prominent pro-gun website, because there were only 85 Federalist Papers.

Fake quotes like these are abundant and they’re not confined to fringe message boards or bumper stickers. They are widespread and they’ve found their way to the top of the pro-gun mainstream."

 
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But mental health is like saying fixing global warming or becoming an entrepreneur. They encompass a lot, and unless someone is specific nothing will come of it. There are a lot of services available now to people who need them.
This country has allowed/cultured an odd relationship with guns, and it will take a lot to unravel/mitigate it.
Personally, i don't care if people own guns. However, having innocent people killed by them is superfluous. It is strange that people won't give up something for the greater good.
Mental health professionals refuse to institutionalize folks who need it - blaming “stigma” and fearing lawsuits. “Have some pills and hit the street.” Absent an admission of an intent to kill immediately, they let it ride. Then they are shocked when the guy shoots up a school or business.

When you “mainstream” an individual who can’t handle it, you create frustration and anger in them. Telling an Adam Lanza “go try to be normal” is just lighting a fuse.
 
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Mental health professionals refuse to institutionalize folks who need it - blaming “stigma” and fearing lawsuits. “Have some pills and hit the street.” Absent an admission of an intent to kill immediately, they let it ride. Then they are shocked when the guy shoots up a school or business.

When you “mainstream” an individual who can’t handle it, you create frustration and anger in them. Telling an Adam Lanza “go try to be normal” is just lighting a fuse.
Didn't the courts make it almost impossible to institutionalize?
 
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Didn't the courts make it almost impossible to institutionalize?
Statutes and courts, yes.

You are entitled to a hearing - but absent “expert” medical opinion that you are an imminent threat (or some very similar phrase) to yourself or others, you are gonna walk.

Kentucky just tweaked a statute after a guy who had raped one and killed another walked because he was deemed incapable of knowing right from wrong or assisting in his defense, but could not be kept any longer in an institution.

He WILL reoffend - he is incapable of restraining himself. But under existing statutes, he could not go to jail or be kept in a mental health institution. Sling Blade walks.
 
The "framers" were hardly unanimous in their view of the 2nd, despite the mythology that gun enthusiasts have spread over time. I believe you're doing a bit of that yourself,and referencing what you believe the "framers" believed, based on some pretty sketchy "quotes"...

"There’s a quote floating around the internet, attributed to George Washington in his first State of the Union Address, which says


As stirring as that quote is to some people, George Washington never wrote or said that, nor did he say anything to that effect. The likely source of that quote is an article from a 1926 issue of a magazine called Hunter-Trapper-Trader attributed to C.S. Wheatley.

George Washington is hardly the only founding father being falsely quoted like this; a Google search is all it takes to discover that the majority of pro-gun quotes commonly attributed to the founding fathers are fakes, or are taken out of context. Thomas Jefferson never wrote “the strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government;” these words were first printed by the Orlando Sentinel in the late 1980s.

Jefferson also did not say “the beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until someone tries to take it;” this quote seems to be from a fictional Jefferson in an independently-published novel called On A Hill They Call Capital (sic.)

John Adams, who was famously suspicious of unrest among common people, would never have declared “arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self defense,” and Alexander Hamilton could never have said “the best we can help for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed” in the 184th Federalist Paper, as is claimed on a prominent pro-gun website, because there were only 85 Federalist Papers.

Fake quotes like these are abundant and they’re not confined to fringe message boards or bumper stickers. They are widespread and they’ve found their way to the top of the pro-gun mainstream."

pretty much the universal law of the internets is that any quote that is hard to believe to be attributed to a famous person is 99% untrue.
 
Why are Americans so mentally unhealthy, I wonder?
In no particular order:

Woodstock Nation Woke assholes droning on about what horrible people everyone is

Race-baiting Dimocrats

24/7 manufacturing

24/7 news cycles

Social media

Lost faith

Too many who equate education with wisdom

Labels

Zone defense

Hickory Barbershop Coaching Societies

Etc
 
So in one week we've had 7 cop kills involving guns on both sides, a school shooting and now this shooting.

Is this the new normal that we'll just eventually become numb to?

You would think that when schools started teaching active shooter drills alongside tornado drills that would have shocked some sense into us.

F#$k the NRA and f#$k any other kind of gun lobby

Enough is enough.

Guns need to be registered and individuals need to pass a licensing test to get one.
dont be a dumbass crazies and shooters could care less about your gun laws.Dont you think it is against the law to kill someone?
 
Statutes and courts, yes.

You are entitled to a hearing - but absent “expert” medical opinion that you are an imminent threat (or some very similar phrase) to yourself or others, you are gonna walk.

Kentucky just tweaked a statute after a guy who had raped one and killed another walked because he was deemed incapable of knowing right from wrong or assisting in his defense, but could not be kept any longer in an institution.

He WILL reoffend - he is incapable of restraining himself. But under existing statutes, he could not go to jail or be kept in a mental health institution. Sling Blade walks.

Right, so it is not necessarily the fault of our mental health professionals. If I recall, a Supreme Court ruling circa 1980 really cracked down on institutionalization as an option. Either we see if the modern court has a different view, or we go the amendment route.
 
Blah, blah, blah. The only effective way to stop this is to turn the lawyers loose on the problem and do to these guns what they did to cigarettes and other dangerous and unsafe products. All the laws about background checks and registrations won’t stop nut jobs. Imposing a financial risk on the industry that produces and sells these dangerous products will stem the tide.
No it wont if there was never another gun sold there is still millions and by the way every car doesnt kill.
 
And that still pales in comparison to a summer weekend in Chicago....
Dumb to compare gang on gang violence to innocent people being killed. Law abiding citizens not living in gang areas in Chicago are as safe as you or I and you know it. Just an ignorant comparison by you people and you’re not fooling anyone but yourselves.
 
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Dumb to compare gang on gang violence to innocent people being killed. Law abiding citizens not living in gang areas in Chicago are as safe as you or I and you know it. Just an ignorant comparison by you people and you’re not fooling anyone but yourselves.
not true at all. innocent people are routinely killed by gangs. tons of kids are shot every year in saint louis. a few years back a lady was literally shot by a random bullet inside busch stadium. the collateral damage from gang violence is massive. in 2020 88 kids between the ages of 1 (yes 1) and 17 were shot last year. all over town
 
That’s not in good faith. There are plenty (the majority) of people on the left that are willing to discuss reasonable actions. It’s imperative our side negotiate in good faith and not knee-jerk it to saying “blah you just want all our guns!” and then go silent.

Thank you Ranger I always get confused when I get yelled at for wanting to 'take away my guns leaving me defenseless when the govt turns or when the bad guys still have them'.

I don't want to take away your right to get a gun. I just want you to pass a licensing test and qualify for a gun endorsement and I want you to register your gun.

Like you have to do to drive a car or a motorcycle or pretty much anything in this country that comes with a big risk.

It can be suspended.

Plus it marks you as a gun owner for police which helps them know what they are walking into.

On the flip side, like currently with drugs, people can be arrested and 'locked up' if they don't have a license and registration of their guns.

That gives police a reason to go get guns out of the hands of our teens, gangs, etc.

We'll start having gun stings to help get the illegal guns off the streets.

I've never considered the litigation solution side for the manufactures of this so I learned something once again from our little fiery group.

I like that concept also at first glance.
 
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dont be a dumbass crazies and shooters could care less about your gun laws.Dont you think it is against the law to kill someone?

If you're going to kill people, guns are pretty efficient at doing that.

I'm sure people still kill each other with knives. I've never heard of a person killing 40 people in a mass stabbing.
 
Thank you Ranger I always get confused when I get yelled at for wanting to 'take away my guns leaving me defenseless when the govt turns or when the bad guys still have them'.

I don't want to take away your right to get a gun. I just want you to pass a licensing test and qualify for a gun endorsement and I want you to register your gun.

Like you have to do to drive a car or a motorcycle or pretty much anything in this country that comes with a big risk.

It can be suspended.

Plus it marks you as a gun owner for police which helps them know what they are walking into.

I've never considered the litigation solution side of this so I learned something once again from our little fiery group.

I like that concept also at first glance.
I would only be on board for licensing for semi auto long guns - not for anything else.
 
Dumb to compare gang on gang violence to innocent people being killed. Law abiding citizens not living in gang areas in Chicago are as safe as you or I and you know it. Just an ignorant comparison by you people and you’re not fooling anyone but yourselves.
I understand the point you are trying to make, but arguing that law-abiding citizens can just move away is the epitome of white privilege.
 
In no particular order:

Woodstock Nation Woke assholes droning on about what horrible people everyone is

Race-baiting Dimocrats

24/7 manufacturing

24/7 news cycles

Social media

Lost faith

Too many who equate education with wisdom

Labels

Zone defense

Hickory Barbershop Coaching Societies

Etc
Follow up question: With all these disparate causes, why does our particular brand of mental illness specifically manifest itself in us shooting each other and ourselves?
 
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