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[Marvin the Martian]

Oh Marv you’re so cute.

Cancel culture isn’t about holding people accountable for the things they say in emotional times. Cancel culture is mostly about groupthink and how you can’t stray from the herd in PC thought or the online justice warriors will grab you. They go back in time - dozens of years if necessary - to find something / anything you’ve said and flush it out into the open.

It’s also used to stifle free speech - protesting to not allow speakers into venues, etc. Its all part of the coddling of minds and encouraging groupthink to fit a narrative. It’s a cancer.

So if a group cancelled Jackson's speaking engagement over his tweets, would that be cancel culture?

How about a group cancelling JK Rowling?

I see it is the right who is very angry and created this term. Back in the day, fundamentalists began a boycott of Disney because Disney offered benefits to homosexual partners. Is that cancel culture?

 

[glmiu11]

So if a group cancelled Jackson's speaking engagement over his tweets, would that be cancel culture?

How about a group cancelling JK Rowling?

I see it is the right who is very angry and created this term. Back in the day, fundamentalists began a boycott of Disney because Disney offered benefits to homosexual partners. Is that cancel culture?

You’re not wrong, but people take it too far. There are people out there trying to destroy lives.

 

[T.M.P.]

The cancel culture is what got Trump elected; coupled with the fact that the Democrats ran Clinton.
People are sick of it.

Cancel culture is a new marketing phrase that didn't exist in 16. Back then being a racist dickbag in public was called being un-PC.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

This cancel culture fear that Carlson likes to fear monger is simple peer pressure from the community.

It's to make a person feel like a dick for saying racist things. You know, peer pressure.

It means the community regulates the morality like it always has.

I've called many people a f#$king retard or a fag, ****** in my lifetime. In the 90's those who were offended stayed quiet and didn't correct me...today our community has evolved in its morality that it is offensive, and I get it. I don't say it as much if at all.

No one is taking away freedom of speech. You can be as non PC and offensive as you want and keep your liberties.

However more people are going to scorn you and shame you for looking like an uneducated, slack jawed booger eating moron.

That's simple, basic peer pressure.

Good. So if one of those guys you called a fag in the 90s tells your employer you did that and you get fired I’m glad you’ve evolved to being able to take one for the team.

 

[glmiu11]

Cancel culture is a new marketing phrase that didn't exist in 16. Back then being a racist dickbag in public was called being un-PC.

Tell Billy Bush that.
Look. I’m not defending the man. He messed up. I wouldn’t do what he did, but he’s ruined.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

So if a group cancelled Jackson's speaking engagement over his tweets, would that be cancel culture?

How about a group cancelling JK Rowling?

I see it is the right who is very angry and created this term. Back in the day, fundamentalists began a boycott of Disney because Disney offered benefits to homosexual partners. Is that cancel culture?

A group that invited Jackson decided to cancel based on tweets is NOT cancel culture. A bunch of activists protesting the forum in which it would be held and pressuring so badly that it gets cancelled IS cancel culture.

But overall he’s not the right example. Better examples are what’s happening at Vox right now because Matt Yglesias, a well respected and feared journalist by all of the political spectrum, dared to sign the Harper’s Weekly letter that advocating against groupthink. People are calling for his head....for advocating against groupthink.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Cancel culture is a new marketing phrase that didn't exist in 16. Back then being a racist dickbag in public was called being un-PC.

When it involves overt racism I have no problem with what happens to the offender. But it’s the “topic d’jour” that if you don’t tote the groupthink line - you risk cancellation.

 

[T.M.P.]

Good. So if one of those guys you called a fag in the 90s tells your employer you did that and you get fired I’m glad you’ve evolved to being able to take one for the team.

That's an extreme example. Most cancelling occurs from present day actions.

In that example, I think cancelling would be wrong. Society changes, norms change, we should recognize that. If he went to work today and did that, he should be fired.

 

[bigmac76]

View embedded media

Good to see RVAT 2020 is spending my contributions wisely...

 

[ButHerEmails]

Defund the police is really expand the police.

If it was given that name it would be harder for Fox to try to scare you....which is all Fox has left, scare tactics.

Expand the police means let's give 911 more options to deal with emergencies than simply the cops.

No one is getting rid of cops, we're turning away from having imperial stormtroopers and wanting to expand the police to better serve the community.

When your house is on fire and you call 911 do you want them to send the police?

When you have fallen and can't get up in your house, do you want 911 to send the police?

911 has basically three options.... Fire, EMT or police.

The police have to handle all non fire or medical situations.

Lastly to get around police unions protecting bad cops, some will have to use the old bandrupsy trick and supposedly end the Bloomington Police...but come back as the Monroe Co. Police force.

Anyone who believes they were ever going to entirely defund the police is a goddamn idiot.

And what you is true. There are numerous examples to be found of restructuring and reorganizing of police departments that have been successful.

 

[T.M.P.]

When it involves overt racism I have no problem with what happens to the offender. But it’s the “topic d’jour” that if you don’t tote the groupthink line - you risk cancellation.

So, we agree, some cancel culture is actually good for society, while some of it is just going overboard. I think we would find the same about groupthink.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

That's an extreme example. Most cancelling occurs from present day actions.

In that example, I think cancelling would be wrong. Society changes, norms change, we should recognize that. If he went to work today and did that, he should be fired.

We agree...again. Boring!

My discussion on cancel culture is more into the 2nd and 3rd tier effects. When people are afraid of being cancelled, they fall victim to groupthink and don’t use their platform to otherwise bring facts to bear. Cancel culture at face value is fine in bringing down overt racists - but that’s not all it does.

 

[glmiu11]

So, we agree, some cancel culture is actually good for society, while some of it is just going overboard. I think we would find the same about groupthink.

My point is that it goes too far and it turns people off. That’s why people said “I like Trump because he says what he wants “.
People shouldn’t be saying and doing stupid things. That is not in dispute.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

So, we agree, some cancel culture is actually good for society, while some of it is just going overboard. I think we would find the same about groupthink.

Boring agreement for most part.

but I would struggle to name a positive outcome of groupthink. The definition of the word pretty much is a loaded argument about why it’s bad.

 

[T.M.P.]

My point is that it goes to far and it turns people off

Not everyone and not every time. Yes, it can go too far, but I personally love watching racist dickbags get fired.

I especially love that some businesses are putting pressure on social media companies to stop being propaganda hubs. Propaganda is ruining the fabric of our society, and twitter and most especially FSB-book are at the center. No one should profit off of causing strife and chaos. No one should profit from foreign or domestic hostile entities promoting violence.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Not everyone and not every time. Yes, it can go too far, but I personally love watching racist dickbags get fired.

I especially love that some businesses are putting pressure on social media companies to stop being propaganda hubs. Propaganda is ruining the fabric of our society, and twitter and most especially FSB-book are at the center. No one should profit off of causing strife and chaos. No one should profit from foreign or domestic hostile entities promoting violence.

Never heard it call FSB-book. Love it.

Nobody minds seeing racist dickbags get fired. But what I’m even stating in the Lake Monroe thread or the BLM thread is cancellable to some sheep. I’m the furthest thing from a racist and it’s only my penchant to be skeptical over everything and believe that deep down most people are good (can you tell I’m not religious?) makes me wait for facts on Lake Monroe and not take one side of the story even though the victim was black so current groupthink necessitates his story must be believed 100%.

That’s the problem with cancel culture. We can’t have coherent conversations in public. We can’t express controversial thoughts - or we risk cancellation.

 

[Cortez88]

The problem I have with the cancel culture is that is stops people from saying or doing things just because they are scared of the social media mob. So many people are looking for things to be offended by that something goes from a 2 to a 10 like that.

 

[TommyCracker]

Good. So if one of those guys you called a fag in the 90s tells your employer you did that and you get fired I’m glad you’ve evolved to being able to take one for the team.

Ha ha I'm very much aware that my public service aspirations are going to probably be more difficult from some video tapes of me playing stick ball with my friends in the 90's.

Imagine a much more vulgar Bob Mereny commentary. Lol

 

[T.M.P.]

That’s why people said “I like Trump because he says what he wants “.

fwiw - those people most likely in a majority are the ones who want to say racist, misogynistic, and homophobic things in public. They were tired of being called out on it and enjoyed it when Trump said obnoxious and disgusting things. They had a like minded leader but it wasn't the key.

79,500 votes in five key states got Trump elected. Hillary won popular vote. There were a lot of factors from to ignorance, to tribalism, to racists, to Russian aid.

 

[T.M.P.]

Never heard it call FSB-book. Love it.

I read a lot stuff written by ex military and ex intelligence. I feel like it's the most honest assessment of what's going on, because in their jobs, lies cost lives and lose wars and maybe they're a bit more honest because of that. That's where I got it from. Facebook is a cesspool of Russian intelligence measures.

 

[glmiu11]

Not everyone and not every time. Yes, it can go too far, but I personally love watching racist dickbags get fired.

I especially love that some businesses are putting pressure on social media companies to stop being propaganda hubs. Propaganda is ruining the fabric of our society, and twitter and most especially FSB-book are at the center. No one should profit off of causing strife and chaos. No one should profit from foreign or domestic hostile entities promoting violence.

I don’t love to see anyone hurt. I know that’s not possible.
This is the only forum I visit....never been on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.

 

[glmiu11]

fwiw - those people most likely in a majority are the ones who want to say racist, misogynistic, and homophobic things in public. They were tired of being called out on it and enjoyed it when Trump said obnoxious and disgusting things. They had a like minded leader but it wasn't the key.

79,500 votes in five key states got Trump elected. Hillary won popular vote. There were a lot of factors from to ignorance, to tribalism, to racists, to Russian aid.

Not everyone and not every time.
I think we agree.

 

[T.M.P.]

Not everyone and not every time.
I think we agree.

No I said, "most likely" and "in a majority" in reference to Trump voters, not everyone , for a reason. Just playing the percentages here ..

 

[Marvin the Martian]

A group that invited Jackson decided to cancel based on tweets is NOT cancel culture. A bunch of activists protesting the forum in which it would be held and pressuring so badly that it gets cancelled IS cancel culture.

But overall he’s not the right example. Better examples are what’s happening at Vox right now because Matt Yglesias, a well respected and feared journalist by all of the political spectrum, dared to sign the Harper’s Weekly letter that advocating against groupthink. People are calling for his head....for advocating against groupthink.

I took a look at the Yglesias letter, the person at Vox that called him out specifically said that she did not want Yglesias fired or punished by Vox. But there are some interesting points about him and others who signed it. They are complaining about losing their voice out, but yet their voices are heard all the time. Look at Rowling, her tweets are such that everyone hear's them.

They mention a marketplace of ideas. Here is the thing about a marketplace, some win and some lose. You call it "group think". Is AGW just group think, or is it real? So do we have to give AGW deniers full participation in the marketplace even though their ideas have lost? How about flat earthers?

Rowling is the perfect example. Right now there is a blowback on issues of sexuality. Rowling has a major issue with trans people. Is it group think slamming Rowling or has she just lost out in the marketplace of ideas? How can we tell the difference?

A common complaint I and others have made here is that in "fairness' there is a need by the press to get a quote of a flat earther if they do a story on the shape of the earth. That isn't fairness, it is stupidity. They have lost on the marketplace of ideas. It is like demanding I go shop at a Sears or Pennys. They lost, move on.

 

[glmiu11]

No I said, "most likely" and "in a majority" in reference to Trump voters, not everyone , for a reason. Just playing the percentages here ..

I’m just messin.
I think we agree. I’m no fan of Trump, but I know people who will vote for him again. They’ve done nothing to make me believe they are anything but good people.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Ha ha I'm very much aware that my public service aspirations are going to probably be more difficult from some video tapes of me playing stick ball with my friends in the 90's.

Imagine a much more vulgar Bob Mereny commentary. Lol

If anybody on the WC doesn’t know who Bob Menery is, close this site and go watch his voiceover videos right freaking now.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

I took a look at the Yglesias letter, the person at Vox that called him out specifically said that she did not want Yglesias fired or punished by Vox. But there are some interesting points about him and others who signed it. They are complaining about losing their voice out, but yet their voices are heard all the time. Look at Rowling, her tweets are such that everyone hear's them.

They mention a marketplace of ideas. Here is the thing about a marketplace, some win and some lose. You call it "group think". Is AGW just group think, or is it real? So do we have to give AGW deniers full participation in the marketplace even though their ideas have lost? How about flat earthers?

Rowling is the perfect example. Right now there is a blowback on issues of sexuality. Rowling has a major issue with trans people. Is it group think slamming Rowling or has she just lost out in the marketplace of ideas? How can we tell the difference?

A common complaint I and others have made here is that in "fairness' there is a need by the press to get a quote of a flat earther if they do a story on the shape of the earth. That isn't fairness, it is stupidity. They have lost on the marketplace of ideas. It is like demanding I go shop at a Sears or Pennys. They lost, move on.

Flat earth and AGW are proven by science. That’s the textbook antonym of groupthink.

Comedians won’t go play colleges anymore. Won’t go near em. Is that a good thing Marv?

a marketplace of ideas is great and the Harpers Weekly letter was great. To me it’s the only common sense thing I’ve heard in weeks. Yet because Rowling signed it, the editor at Vox couldn’t believe Yglesias did too. That’s cancel culture and it stinks.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I agree about the comedians. I saw John Cleese at IU about 18 months ago, he showed Holy Grail then gave a speech. He discussed the problems. I agree it is an issue. But here's the problem. A lot of jokes over the years have been told at the expense of some people more than others. Let's pick on blonde jokes for a minute. We act like there is NO possible way anyone is harmed by a blonde joke. Is that true? Are blondes EVER turned down for a job because someone might believe they are less capable? Might a little blonde girl think she is not as smart because she is blonde? If those things happen, and I bet you will agree both are likely to have happened, what do we do?

So now carry that out to Blacks, to trans, to gays, etc.

I read Brothers in Battle about two of the Band of Brothers. Mularky made it clear that growing up in South Philly everyone was known by their ancestry. And not necessarily in PC terms either, they used the derogatory names and he felt it didn't mean anything. And maybe it didn't. What Mularky missed is the people he was fighting did the exact same thing AND it meant something. He had already lost his leg before the liberation of the camp, so he didn't see first hand what it means when people take that stuff seriously.

I don't have an answer. I'm an old, fat, white guy. I have been made fun of for that and for being a geek, but largely speaking we haven't been targeted like a Matthew Shepard or Clearance Arbery. Do you think the guys that killed Shepard may have told gay jokes? The guys that killed Arbery tell Black jokes?

So when exactly is a gay joke perfectly acceptable and when is one not? If you were sitting at a table and someone starts to tell a Black joke, do you allow it and laugh along or do you stop it? What determines it?

I love Cleese, and he told a lot of jokes about Americans, Irish, English, Germans, Blacks, Jews, etc, to illustrate his point. We all laughed. I get his point. I get your point. I'm actually pretty libertarian on this issue but I am questioning that. When do we know a joke is too far? When is an idea too far? You don't think there is a mental image about these so called "evil" (or whatever Trump used) illegals coming into our country that just destroys the debate on DACA? You don't think free speech and humor haven't contributed to these images?

trans people still have it rough. Rowling isn't helping them. Don't they have a right to stand up and say so?

My point really isn't to whole-heartedly endorse this so-called cancel culture, though it may sound that way. I'm trying to suggest this isn't just a simple "no one is ever hurt by a joke" debate. We actually need to think this through. Do we cheapen someone else's life with comments that you or I may think are harmless? Is that OK?

 

[T.M.P.]

I agree about the comedians. I saw John Cleese at IU about 18 months ago, he showed Holy Grail then gave a speech. He discussed the problems. I agree it is an issue. But here's the problem. A lot of jokes over the years have been told at the expense of some people more than others. Let's pick on blonde jokes for a minute. We act like there is NO possible way anyone is harmed by a blonde joke. Is that true? Are blondes EVER turned down for a job because someone might believe they are less capable? Might a little blonde girl think she is not as smart because she is blonde? If those things happen, and I bet you will agree both are likely to have happened, what do we do?

So now carry that out to Blacks, to trans, to gays, etc.

I read Brothers in Battle about two of the Band of Brothers. Mularky made it clear that growing up in South Philly everyone was known by their ancestry. And not necessarily in PC terms either, they used the derogatory names and he felt it didn't mean anything. And maybe it didn't. What Mularky missed is the people he was fighting did the exact same thing AND it meant something. He had already lost his leg before the liberation of the camp, so he didn't see first hand what it means when people take that stuff seriously.

I don't have an answer. I'm an old, fat, white guy. I have been made fun of for that and for being a geek, but largely speaking we haven't been targeted like a Matthew Shepard or Clearance Arbery. Do you think the guys that killed Shepard may have told gay jokes? The guys that killed Arbery tell Black jokes?

So when exactly is a gay joke perfectly acceptable and when is one not? If you were sitting at a table and someone starts to tell a Black joke, do you allow it and laugh along or do you stop it? What determines it?

I love Cleese, and he told a lot of jokes about Americans, Irish, English, Germans, Blacks, Jews, etc, to illustrate his point. We all laughed. I get his point. I get your point. I'm actually pretty libertarian on this issue but I am questioning that. When do we know a joke is too far? When is an idea too far? You don't think there is a mental image about these so called "evil" (or whatever Trump used) illegals coming into our country that just destroys the debate on DACA? You don't think free speech and humor haven't contributed to these images?

trans people still have it rough. Rowling isn't helping them. Don't they have a right to stand up and say so?

My point really isn't to whole-heartedly endorse this so-called cancel culture, though it may sound that way. I'm trying to suggest this isn't just a simple "no one is ever hurt by a joke" debate. We actually need to think this through. Do we cheapen someone else's life with comments that you or I may think are harmless? Is that OK?

There's only one real blonde joke, the rest of that stuff is true.

vbg

 

[IUclover]

The cancel culture is what got Trump elected; coupled with the fact that the Democrats ran Clinton.
People are sick of it.

True. What's sad is cancel culture from the right and far far left is what made Clinton a less viable candidate. I still don't understand what made her so unlikable beyond all of the fake smears from the cancel culture or whatever we're calling it now. She's basically a female Joe Biden but likely more intelligent - I think I may have answered my own question in that last comment.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I agree about the comedians. I saw John Cleese at IU about 18 months ago, he showed Holy Grail then gave a speech. He discussed the problems. I agree it is an issue. But here's the problem. A lot of jokes over the years have been told at the expense of some people more than others. Let's pick on blonde jokes for a minute. We act like there is NO possible way anyone is harmed by a blonde joke. Is that true? Are blondes EVER turned down for a job because someone might believe they are less capable? Might a little blonde girl think she is not as smart because she is blonde? If those things happen, and I bet you will agree both are likely to have happened, what do we do?

So now carry that out to Blacks, to trans, to gays, etc.

I read Brothers in Battle about two of the Band of Brothers. Mularky made it clear that growing up in South Philly everyone was known by their ancestry. And not necessarily in PC terms either, they used the derogatory names and he felt it didn't mean anything. And maybe it didn't. What Mularky missed is the people he was fighting did the exact same thing AND it meant something. He had already lost his leg before the liberation of the camp, so he didn't see first hand what it means when people take that stuff seriously.

I don't have an answer. I'm an old, fat, white guy. I have been made fun of for that and for being a geek, but largely speaking we haven't been targeted like a Matthew Shepard or Clearance Arbery. Do you think the guys that killed Shepard may have told gay jokes? The guys that killed Arbery tell Black jokes?

So when exactly is a gay joke perfectly acceptable and when is one not? If you were sitting at a table and someone starts to tell a Black joke, do you allow it and laugh along or do you stop it? What determines it?

I love Cleese, and he told a lot of jokes about Americans, Irish, English, Germans, Blacks, Jews, etc, to illustrate his point. We all laughed. I get his point. I get your point. I'm actually pretty libertarian on this issue but I am questioning that. When do we know a joke is too far? When is an idea too far? You don't think there is a mental image about these so called "evil" (or whatever Trump used) illegals coming into our country that just destroys the debate on DACA? You don't think free speech and humor haven't contributed to these images?

trans people still have it rough. Rowling isn't helping them. Don't they have a right to stand up and say so?

My point really isn't to whole-heartedly endorse this so-called cancel culture, though it may sound that way. I'm trying to suggest this isn't just a simple "no one is ever hurt by a joke" debate. We actually need to think this through. Do we cheapen someone else's life with comments that you or I may think are harmless? Is that OK?

Let me add, when Cleese was done he complimented IU for allowing him given most universities will not. He was on stage the whole time with McRobbie. I suspect much of the audience was thinking what I was as we were laughing, McRobbie wanted to be anywhere else.

 

[TommyCracker]

If anybody on the WC doesn’t know who Bob Menery is, close this site and go watch his voiceover videos right freaking now.

I think this is his most consistent collection.

Even my gf, who isn't a sports fans, literally tears up in laughter when he gets to animal video sports commentary, particularly the Christian McCaffery Cat that jumps over the dog.

If ESPN could be R rated....

 

[glmiu11]

I agree about the comedians. I saw John Cleese at IU about 18 months ago, he showed Holy Grail then gave a speech. He discussed the problems. I agree it is an issue. But here's the problem. A lot of jokes over the years have been told at the expense of some people more than others. Let's pick on blonde jokes for a minute. We act like there is NO possible way anyone is harmed by a blonde joke. Is that true? Are blondes EVER turned down for a job because someone might believe they are less capable? Might a little blonde girl think she is not as smart because she is blonde? If those things happen, and I bet you will agree both are likely to have happened, what do we do?

So now carry that out to Blacks, to trans, to gays, etc.

I read Brothers in Battle about two of the Band of Brothers. Mularky made it clear that growing up in South Philly everyone was known by their ancestry. And not necessarily in PC terms either, they used the derogatory names and he felt it didn't mean anything. And maybe it didn't. What Mularky missed is the people he was fighting did the exact same thing AND it meant something. He had already lost his leg before the liberation of the camp, so he didn't see first hand what it means when people take that stuff seriously.

I don't have an answer. I'm an old, fat, white guy. I have been made fun of for that and for being a geek, but largely speaking we haven't been targeted like a Matthew Shepard or Clearance Arbery. Do you think the guys that killed Shepard may have told gay jokes? The guys that killed Arbery tell Black jokes?

So when exactly is a gay joke perfectly acceptable and when is one not? If you were sitting at a table and someone starts to tell a Black joke, do you allow it and laugh along or do you stop it? What determines it?

I love Cleese, and he told a lot of jokes about Americans, Irish, English, Germans, Blacks, Jews, etc, to illustrate his point. We all laughed. I get his point. I get your point. I'm actually pretty libertarian on this issue but I am questioning that. When do we know a joke is too far? When is an idea too far? You don't think there is a mental image about these so called "evil" (or whatever Trump used) illegals coming into our country that just destroys the debate on DACA? You don't think free speech and humor haven't contributed to these images?

trans people still have it rough. Rowling isn't helping them. Don't they have a right to stand up and say so?

My point really isn't to whole-heartedly endorse this so-called cancel culture, though it may sound that way. I'm trying to suggest this isn't just a simple "no one is ever hurt by a joke" debate. We actually need to think this through. Do we cheapen someone else's life with comments that you or I may think are harmless? Is that OK?

Again. You’re not wrong. I agree. But if I never see a new Dave Chappelle special I’m gonna be ticked.

 

[glmiu11]

True. What's sad is cancel culture from the right and far far left is what made Clinton a less viable candidate. I still don't understand what made her so unlikable beyond all of the fake smears from the cancel culture or whatever we're calling it now. She's basically a female Joe Biden but likely more intelligent - I think I may have answered my own question in that last comment.

I think you’d have to admit that she’s a bit shady. The Clinton Foundation?
A lot of unproven rumors?
I’m not saying anything she did is wrong, but you gotta wonder.
I understand you can easily make the same statement about Trump.
I couldn’t get myself to vote for either, but I made a terrible mistake that doesn’t matter because I live in Indiana. I won’t make the same mistake again.

 

[Circlejoe]

I think you’d have to admit that she’s a bit shady. The Clinton Foundation?
A lot of unproven rumors?
I’m not saying anything she did is wrong, but you gotta wonder.
I understand you can easily make the same statement about Trump.
I couldn’t get myself to vote for either, but I made a terrible mistake that doesn’t matter because I live in Indiana. I won’t make the same mistake again.

Please explain the problem with The Clinton Foundation. I'm very curious to read your thoughts.

 

[TommyCracker]

I agree about the comedians. I saw John Cleese at IU about 18 months ago, he showed Holy Grail then gave a speech. He discussed the problems. I agree it is an issue. But here's the problem. A lot of jokes over the years have been told at the expense of some people more than others. Let's pick on blonde jokes for a minute. We act like there is NO possible way anyone is harmed by a blonde joke. Is that true? Are blondes EVER turned down for a job because someone might believe they are less capable? Might a little blonde girl think she is not as smart because she is blonde? If those things happen, and I bet you will agree both are likely to have happened, what do we do?

So now carry that out to Blacks, to trans, to gays, etc.

I read Brothers in Battle about two of the Band of Brothers. Mularky made it clear that growing up in South Philly everyone was known by their ancestry. And not necessarily in PC terms either, they used the derogatory names and he felt it didn't mean anything. And maybe it didn't. What Mularky missed is the people he was fighting did the exact same thing AND it meant something. He had already lost his leg before the liberation of the camp, so he didn't see first hand what it means when people take that stuff seriously.

I don't have an answer. I'm an old, fat, white guy. I have been made fun of for that and for being a geek, but largely speaking we haven't been targeted like a Matthew Shepard or Clearance Arbery. Do you think the guys that killed Shepard may have told gay jokes? The guys that killed Arbery tell Black jokes?

So when exactly is a gay joke perfectly acceptable and when is one not? If you were sitting at a table and someone starts to tell a Black joke, do you allow it and laugh along or do you stop it? What determines it?

I love Cleese, and he told a lot of jokes about Americans, Irish, English, Germans, Blacks, Jews, etc, to illustrate his point. We all laughed. I get his point. I get your point. I'm actually pretty libertarian on this issue but I am questioning that. When do we know a joke is too far? When is an idea too far? You don't think there is a mental image about these so called "evil" (or whatever Trump used) illegals coming into our country that just destroys the debate on DACA? You don't think free speech and humor haven't contributed to these images?

trans people still have it rough. Rowling isn't helping them. Don't they have a right to stand up and say so?

My point really isn't to whole-heartedly endorse this so-called cancel culture, though it may sound that way. I'm trying to suggest this isn't just a simple "no one is ever hurt by a joke" debate. We actually need to think this through. Do we cheapen someone else's life with comments that you or I may think are harmless? Is that OK?

Comedy has always been difficult not only from the 18 million different subjective opinions on what is funny, but to be a truly great comedian or comedy is you have to be smart enough to not victimize.

It's too easy to simply pick on people.

As the Farrelly Brothers said a person has to have a redeeming quality that wins the audience over, otherwise you're just a mean spirited dumbass.

Take There's Something About Mary, in particular Matt Dillon's character along with Mary's special needs brother character.

That could have very easily devolved into simple minded, mean spirited handicapped jokes.

But Dillon was established as the dumbass and Mary's brother was the redeemer of those characters VS simply being the target.

It's a fine distinction and a good one to evolve us as a society from the days of Amos and Andy humor.

 

[glmiu11]

Please explain the problem with The Clinton Foundation. I'm very curious to read your thoughts.

Nah. If you don’t think so, that’s ok.

 

[Circlejoe]

Nah. If you don’t think so, that’s ok.

OK. Then I assume you really don't have a clue what you're talking about. Got it.

 

[IUclover]

I think you’d have to admit that she’s a bit shady. The Clinton Foundation?
A lot of unproven rumors?
I’m not saying anything she did is wrong, but you gotta wonder.
I understand you can easily make the same statement about Trump.
I couldn’t get myself to vote for either, but I made a terrible mistake that doesn’t matter because I live in Indiana. I won’t make the same mistake again.

The Clinton Foundation was found of no wrong doing - see link below. So just more fear mongering from the Republican Party as a whole, not just Trumpism.

I guess if you believe in all the hype (in general, not you glmiu), you can make an alternate reality. The even sadder thing is that the conservatives who state they won't for Trump again (not saying you) will still vote for every official who bent over for him and remained silent. For example, if Mike Braun and Tennessee Trey were to run again whenever their terms up, I'm sure they'd get a vote from all of those conservatives opposed to Trump. Speaking of running again, I guess we'll see if Tennessee (we need term limits) Trey will be back to run for another term.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...without-results-washington-post-idUSKBN1Z905V

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Again. You’re not wrong. I agree. But if I never see a new Dave Chappelle special I’m gonna be ticked.

My favorite comedy movie is Blazing Saddles. It is pure genius, and absolutely no way it gets made today.

No way George Carlin happens today.

No way MASH (movie or series) gets made today.

I am sad about all those things BUT I firmly believe we are in a time of transition and I am not at allure we stay here. We are trying to range in a target, we fire short, we fire long, eventually we hit it. Those things above will be allowed again but different. A new MASH. Will not put mysoginy front and center.

We will punch up and not down,much like glmiu suggested.