Kelvin Sampson

BigRedPunch81

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Apr 25, 2017
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its funny. college is a scam. so who cares about phone calls. all kids go to college to drink or experiment with other things. anyway kansas lsu duke all get away with murder when it comes to recruiting. if your not trying to cut corners on some things your not winning period. no other schools care about your feelings. sampson would've had us in final 4s and possible big ten titles. i don't care about the school just the team. the guy goes back to Houston and just has great teams year after year. archie isn't even on kelvin sampson level period.
 

SIhoosier26

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Sep 9, 2017
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its funny. college is a scam. so who cares about phone calls. all kids go to college to drink or experiment with other things. anyway kansas lsu duke all get away with murder when it comes to recruiting. if your not trying to cut corners on some things your not winning period. no other schools care about your feelings. sampson would've had us in final 4s and possible big ten titles. i don't care about the school just the team. the guy goes back to Houston and just has great teams year after year. archie isn't even on kelvin sampson level period.
Wasn't it IU that told on themselves? That would never happen at those other programs.
 

Cavanagh.13

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Nov 6, 2019
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its funny. college is a scam. so who cares about phone calls. all kids go to college to drink or experiment with other things. anyway kansas lsu duke all get away with murder when it comes to recruiting. if your not trying to cut corners on some things your not winning period. no other schools care about your feelings. sampson would've had us in final 4s and possible big ten titles. i don't care about the school just the team. the guy goes back to Houston and just has great teams year after year. archie isn't even on kelvin sampson level period.

IU has a holier than thou standard, and it has trickled down into our alum and fanbase. It is the #1 reason we now suck at basketball.
 

Cavanagh.13

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Wasn't it IU that told on themselves? That would never happen at those other programs.

The craziest shit???? You have a good percent of fans that still think that was the right decision. They are more mad about HIRING Sampson than us telling on ourselves for phone calls. You cant produce a winning program when your admins priorities put winning at about #4 on the list.
 

SIhoosier26

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The craziest shit???? You have a good percent of fans that still think that was the right decision. They are more mad about HIRING Sampson than us telling on ourselves for phone calls. You cant produce a winning program when your admins priorities put winning at about #4 on the list.
It destroyed our program and set it back over a decade, hell it's still setting it back. Until the administrative mentality changes IU won't do anything anytime soon unless someone like Brad Steven's falls into their lap (he won't).

I mean the only fight our players have been showing the last few years is against their own teammates. We're likely screwed for the near future.
 
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.Gerdis

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We brought in a known cheater, and then said in the presser that “what he did at Oklahoma could never happen at IU”.

But the NCAA report cited a “failure to monitor”. Think about that. It’s not like it would be a difficult thing to monitor, yet it took an intern to stumble upon it. Either IU was lying and were happy to turn a blind eye or they were completely inept.

I don’t blame Sampson at all in this. IU tried to have a program like Oklahoma and they ended up with egg on their face.
 
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Columbus-Boiler

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Jun 6, 2001
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I agree completely that what Sampson did at IU is minor, incredibly minor by today's standards, BUT how it works with cheaters is: they get away with something small, then they get away with something a little bigger, then they get away with something a little bigger, on and on UNTIL they get caught. There is a lot of angst and talk of IU basketball being a lost cause among IU fans, keeping Sampson probably would have made that a true statement instead of just angry internet frustration statements. There is NO reason to believe it wouldn't have progressed further is there?

You started dating a girl who you know cheated on her last boyfriend, then you found some inappropriate texts.....keep or dump? lol
 

Jg48

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Mar 28, 2010
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You started dating a girl who you know cheated on her last boyfriend, then you found some inappropriate texts.....keep or dump? lol
Way to "boil it down". It's really is that simple. In 30 years of practicing "family law", I learned that cheaters, cheat. Its nothing personal, it's just what they do. You get involved with one and getting burned is almost a certainty. IU should know. The idea that Sampson should be brought back is laughable.
 
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VanPastorMan

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Mar 21, 2002
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Way to "boil it down". It's really is that simple. In 30 years of practicing "family law", I learned that cheaters, cheat. Its nothing personal, it just what they do. You get involved with one and getting burned is almost a certainty. IU should know. The idea that Sampson should be brought back is laughable.
I almost think this is a tongue and cheek thread. Let's just wait and see what happens in Houston in the coming years. As you say cheaters are gonna cheat.
 
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Coach Geez

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I don't think IU fans are mad because he made impermissible phone calls, that's petty in nature and no longer a violation. IU fans are mad that the IU admin hired a known cheater, failed to monitor him, got caught again, lied to the NCAA, and drug IU down with him. Does anyone else really not believe that if it wasn't the phone calls it wouldn't have been something else down the road? Give an inch and then take a mile? Call IU holier than thou for self-reporting, whatever, Sampson was bound to get caught doing something else illicit. IU was going to one day pay for Sampson's mistake if they didn't get rid of him.
 

VanPastorMan

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I don't think IU fans are mad because he made impermissible phone calls, that's petty in nature and no longer a violation. IU fans are mad that the IU admin hired a known cheater, failed to monitor him, got caught again, lied to the NCAA, and drug IU down with him. Does anyone else really not believe that if it wasn't the phone calls it wouldn't have been something else down the road? Give an inch and then take a mile? Call IU holier than thou for self-reporting, whatever, Sampson was bound to get caught doing something else illicit. IU was going to one day pay for Sampson's mistake if they didn't get rid of him.
You said it well. He drug IU, the program down with him. He did in less than 2 yrs what Bob Knight never did. My problem is also that he never apologized. How many of us love IU from when we were kids? And to have this dude come in and wreck it all very quickly was demoralizing.
 
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kmathum

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My opinion....if you ain’t cheatin you ain’t tryin in big time college basketball recruiting

We would rather be clean(ish) than successful.

But lots seem to be proud of our bubble teams.
you bet. we should have given him a lifetime contact and looked the other way. we'd probably have at least two more banners by now.
 

VanPastorMan

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you’re probably right actually

but some people care less about winning and more about keeping up appearances

if kelvin were punching reporters in the face and choking kids out it woulda been cool tho
Of course I want to win. But I want to win with my head held high. I want a program and school I am proud of. If we win by cheating then how can you really be proud of it? You can say,"they all do it", but that doesn't change the fact you are a cheater.
 
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Beorik

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you’re probably right actually

but some people care less about winning and more about keeping up appearances

if kelvin were punching reporters in the face and choking kids out it woulda been cool tho

Well the truth is that most people can 100% relate to wanting to punch 99% of media people in the face and wanting to grab (not choke out) a teenager by the throat.

Most cannot relate to wanting to cheat to win.
 
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RBB89

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The craziest shit???? You have a good percent of fans that still think that was the right decision. They are more mad about HIRING Sampson than us telling on ourselves for phone calls. You cant produce a winning program when your admins priorities put winning at about #4 on the list.
We currently have a top 10-15 football program with one of the cleanest cut coaches in America. This is a stupid thread.
 

kmathum

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Of course I want to win. But I want to win with my head held high. I want a program and school I am proud of. If we win by cheating then how can you really be proud of it? You can say,"they all do it", but that doesn't change the fact you are a cheater.
win 'em all and let god sort 'em out.
 

Cavanagh.13

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We currently have a top 10-15 football program with one of the cleanest cut coaches in America. This is a stupid thread.

IU hadn’t been relevant since Nam and they have one good year and they are a top 10-15 program??? Serious Clark?????
 
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Jg48

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IU hadn’t been relevant since Nam and they have one good year and they are a top 10-15 program??? Serious Clark?????
Well, he did say "currently". I guess we get to keep that ranking until the new ones come out. Next season will give us an better indication of whether or not Allen has turned the program around. Although, we are clearly more competitive. We need positive thinkers on this forum. Too much to be depressed about.
 

demunn

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Mar 15, 2017
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IU hadn’t been relevant since Nam and they have one good year and they are a top 10-15 program??? Serious Clark?????

It's great to see success in the program and Allen looks to have a ton of upside but we are not 10-15. OSU game was awesome but still an L. Bowl game was a huge disappointment. To have Ws against UM, UW, MSU, PSU....simply awesome and hopefully we'll see a strong year next year.
 

.Gerdis

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It's great to see success in the program and Allen looks to have a ton of upside but we are not 10-15. OSU game was awesome but still an L. Bowl game was a huge disappointment. To have Ws against UM, UW, MSU, PSU....simply awesome and hopefully we'll see a strong year next year.

It will be interesting to see how having fans in the stands will affect things. It’s a lot tougher to play teams like MI with the stands full. Big disadvantage in road games.
 
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Klaus 7196

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Oct 12, 2018
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My opinion....if you ain’t cheatin you ain’t tryin in big time college basketball recruiting

We would rather be clean(ish) than successful.

But lots seem to be proud of our bubble teams.
I really hate the "ain't cheatin-ain't tryin" cliché.
Such a TIRED hack phrase. I think it's used mostly by those with minimal morals hoping to normalize lower levels of integrity.
 
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birdforbogey

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I really hate the "ain't cheatin-ain't tryin" cliché.
Such a TIRED hack phrase. I think it's used mostly by those with minimal morals hoping to normalize lower levels of integrity.
If you don't think IU is riding some grey areas. I have some ocean front property south of Indy I would like to sell you.
 

Coach Geez

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If you don't think IU is riding some grey areas. I have some ocean front property south of Indy I would like to sell you.

Riding in the grey area is completely different than a) allowing/having knowledge of a coach committing NCAA violations and more importantly b) turning a blind eye.

There was nothing grey about Sampson's actions.

Impermissible phone calls---NCAA violation
Committing NCAA violations while already on probation for committing NCAA Violations---NCAA violation
Lying to the NCAA about committing NCAA violations---NCAA violation

It's why he received a show cause.
 
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birdforbogey

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Riding in the grey area is completely different than a) allowing/having knowledge of a coach committing NCAA violations and more importantly b) turning a blind eye.

There was nothing grey about Sampson's actions.

Impermissible phone calls---NCAA violation
Committing NCAA violations while already on probation for committing NCAA Violations---NCAA violation
Lying to the NCAA about committing NCAA violations---NCAA violation

It's why he received a show cause.
F the ncaa.
 

kmathum

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IU hadn’t been relevant since Nam and they have one good year and they are a top 10-15 program??? Serious Clark?????
not totally accurate. we were pretty good in the late 80's. but i agree. top 15 is a stretch. top 25's more like it. but we'll see if we can stay there and maybe improve on that. time will tell.
 

BaxterIU

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I don't think IU fans are mad because he made impermissible phone calls, that's petty in nature and no longer a violation. IU fans are mad that the IU admin hired a known cheater, failed to monitor him, got caught again, lied to the NCAA, and drug IU down with him. Does anyone else really not believe that if it wasn't the phone calls it wouldn't have been something else down the road? Give an inch and then take a mile? Call IU holier than thou for self-reporting, whatever, Sampson was bound to get caught doing something else illicit. IU was going to one day pay for Sampson's mistake if they didn't get rid of him.

Has Sampson been caught doing anything since?
 

IUNorth

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Oct 25, 2002
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It wasn’t necessarily the phone calls that killed our program. It was the players he brought in not staying, or being asked to leave the program when he left.

If he left a stable roster for Crean the way most coaches do, we wouldn’t have dropped into oblivion.

No clue what the long term effect of that might have been? But our fall after he left certainly wasn’t because of the calls or penalties from them.
 

wi_hoosier

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Nov 3, 2008
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I agree completely that what Sampson did at IU is minor, incredibly minor by today's standards, BUT how it works with cheaters is: they get away with something small, then they get away with something a little bigger, then they get away with something a little bigger, on and on UNTIL they get caught. There is a lot of angst and talk of IU basketball being a lost cause among IU fans, keeping Sampson probably would have made that a true statement instead of just angry internet frustration statements. There is NO reason to believe it wouldn't have progressed further is there?

You started dating a girl who you know cheated on her last boyfriend, then you found some inappropriate texts.....keep or dump? lol

The biggest issue, from what I recall, with the Sampson debacle was multifaceted.

1) He was the President of the National Basketball Coaches Assoc. who's objective was to clean up recruiting.
2) He was caught cheating at OU for excessive phone calls.
3) IU hired him under provisions due to OU's self-imposed infractions.
4) He committed the exact same violations, while under probation, immediately during his tenure at IU.

Those together struck at the oversight and integrity of the man. And, made a mountain out of what otherwise could have been a mole hill.
 

Coach Geez

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Has Sampson been caught doing anything since?

Caught? Not that I’m aware of.. Does it matter now? No. He served his show cause and was re-instated. He’s one hell of a coach but not somebody that should be allowed back in Bloomington.
 

go_iu

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Feb 22, 2004
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It wasn’t necessarily the phone calls that killed our program. It was the players he brought in not staying, or being asked to leave the program when he left.

If he left a stable roster for Crean the way most coaches do, we wouldn’t have dropped into oblivion.

No clue what the long term effect of that might have been? But our fall after he left certainly wasn’t because of the calls or penalties from them.
Guess who kicked them off? Not Crean, Dickich. Sampson never kicked anybody off. Revisionist history, Dickich did all that damage
 

Coach Geez

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The biggest issue, from what I recall, with the Sampson debacle was multifaceted.

1) He was the President of the National Basketball Coaches Assoc. who's objective was to clean up recruiting.
2) He was caught cheating at OU for excessive phone calls.
3) IU hired him under provisions due to OU's self-imposed infractions.
4) He committed the exact same violations, while under probation, immediately during his tenure at IU.

Those together struck at the oversight and integrity of the man. And, made a mountain out of what otherwise could have been a mole hill.

5) Lied to the NCAA during their investigation. That’s a cardinal sin. It’s why Bruce Pearl and Jim Tressel went down in flames despite covering or deflecting rather minor violations. Sampson was already on probation so he was likely looking at a harsher punishment, but making impermissible phone calls are only secondary violations in nature.
 
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Jssanto

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We brought in a known cheater, and then said in the presser that “what he did at Oklahoma could never happen at IU”.

But the NCAA report cited a “failure to monitor”. Think about that. It’s not like it would be a difficult thing to monitor, yet it took an intern to stumble upon it. Either IU was lying and were happy to turn a blind eye or they were completely inept.

I don’t blame Sampson at all in this. IU tried to have a program like Oklahoma and they ended up with egg on their face.
2 quick points.
1. What Sampson did is now legal.
2. I had always thought we were just incompetent in our monitoring. I had not considered we did it on purpose.
 

Davehack

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Guess who kicked them off? Not Crean, Dickich. Sampson never kicked anybody off. Revisionist history, Dickich did all that damage
The roster he left was a rogue's gallery of characters. A thinning of the herd was in order. Crean had to dodge a flower pot trying to get one of them to stay.