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Kavanaugh

My oldest daughter is a college senior. When she was in high school a boy grabbed her ass and made a lewd comment. My daughter, being pretty shy, cried but didn't say anything until a teacher or staff member asked her what was wrong. The kid was hauled in of course, and his parents. He wrote an apology to my daughter and so far as anyone can tell never caused anyone any further trouble.

So in the absence of any further accusations against this then 16 year old kid, would my daughter rush forward 35 years from now with this high school ass grab story in an attempt to ruin the guy? Should she? No effing way.

If there is more to this story, or further accusations or corroboration, then we'll talk. As it is, it's absurd.
I try never to make my self part of the argument, and I'd be astonished if I've ever made my kids part of any argument. Yet here you are spouting baseless opinions about people you don't know, because of what you say happened to your daughter. What is anyone to do with that? Should I say I'm glad your daughter wouldn't come forward to talk about abuse that occurred years ago? Is that what you'd say about your daughter? Why are we talking about your daughter?
 
My oldest daughter is a college senior. When she was in high school a boy grabbed her ass and made a lewd comment. My daughter, being pretty shy, cried but didn't say anything until a teacher or staff member asked her what was wrong. The kid was hauled in of course, and his parents. He wrote an apology to my daughter and so far as anyone can tell never caused anyone any further trouble.

So in the absence of any further accusations against this then 16 year old kid, would my daughter rush forward 35 years from now with this high school ass grab story in an attempt to ruin the guy? Should she? No effing way.

If there is more to this story, or further accusations or corroboration, then we'll talk. As it is, it's absurd.
This is the aggressive credulity Rockfish is talking about. Your daughter's situation sheds ZERO light on this situation.
 
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No that wasn't the right thing to do. Assuming, arguendo, that some allegation of a local juvenile offense occurred (and I doubt there's even a grain of truth in this) more than 35 years ago, the jurisdiction is in the local juvenile courts of the jurisdiction where the event happened. That is NOT the FBI's jurisdiction, so giving the info to the FBI (to whom in the FBI, the place is loaded with leftists sabatouers) is the WRONG thing to do. Give it to local juvenile authorities where it happened - IF it happened at all.

This is a desperate play by insane people acting out of pure, unadulterated hatred. It won't work. He'll be confirmed. Then we'll wait anxiously for the next retirement, then the next. This one isn't the biggest deal. The next two by Trump are.


She gave it to the FBI because they are the agency charged with conducting background checks on Federal appointees. I doubt there is any criminal investigation involved, just the idea the FBI needs to investigate in their role as background checkers...

DF should have come forward publicly with this sooner, but she was hamstrung by the "victims" wish to remain anonymous. Obviously the woman knew Kavanaugh in high school- maybe she was a scorned lover or someone with a grudge. Or maybe she was afraid and felt she had no recourse at the time....

And even if Kavanaugh is guilty (and gets confirmed) he won't be the only sexual predator to sit on the court. Unless you think ultra- Conservative Anita Hill accused Clarence Thomas as part of some liberal plot...
 
I try never to make my self part of the argument, and I'd be astonished if I've ever made my kids part of any argument. Yet here you are spouting baseless opinions about people you don't know, because of what you say happened to your daughter. What is anyone to do with that? Should I say I'm glad your daughter wouldn't come forward to talk about abuse that occurred years ago? Is that what you'd say about your daughter? Why are we talking about your daughter?

What the hell are you talking about...baseless opinions about people I don't know. Isn't that what everyone in this thread is doing? Not one person here knows anything more than is in that article, and my only point is there is nothing in that article as written here that should serve to ruin this guy. You got more? Show it. I'll hop on the train. I'm not the one making assumptions here.
 
After what you posted just prior to this, you post this? Looks like you have your own credulity issue.
Aggressive credulity on the right over the ages:
the "murder" of Vince Foster; Obama birth certificate; the claim that climate change is a fraud...the litany of utter crap the right willfully believes in the service of its policy goals is epic. Heck, we should go back to Clarence Thomas and his history of abusive behavior towards women including Anita Hill.
 
What the hell are you talking about...baseless opinions about people I don't know. Isn't that what everyone in this thread is doing? Not one person here knows anything more than is in that article, and my only point is there is nothing in that article as written here that should serve to ruin this guy. You got more? Show it. I'll hop on the train. I'm not the one making assumptions here.
You seem very invested in this. I'm just waiting to see what the facts are -- notwithstanding my daughter's life experiences.
 
You seem very invested in this. I'm just waiting to see what the facts are -- notwithstanding my daughter's life experiences.

And what have I said (obviously wrong headed story aside) other than the current facts don't support taking a guy down over? You have as many posts in this thread as I do. Why are you so invested?
 
It seems like the only thing you guys are invested in is bitch-slapping each other.
Seems to me that the argument here is about or should be about whether allegations of sexual misconduct in the past should impact people in the present. I would say that the parties disagree. The Democrats and the metoo# movement say previous misconduct may be disqualifying. even if the conduct is not demonstrated to be illegal in court. Republicans say no. Only those who have been or plausibly may be convicted of a criminal offense should be held accountable.
 
Seems to me that the argument here is about or should be about whether allegations of sexual misconduct in the past should impact people in the present. I would say that the parties disagree. The Democrats and the metoo# movement say previous misconduct may be disqualifying. even if the conduct is not demonstrated to be illegal in court. Republicans say no. Only those who have been or plausibly may be convicted of a criminal offense should be held accountable.
Is there only one good candidate available for the only one SC seat open? Are there any candidates with impeccable qualifications? What exactly do we want for our Supreme Court justices? How high or low should we set the bar? Should we fast-track the nomination of an imbecile?
 
You have as many posts in this thread as I do. Why are you so invested?
That's a good and fair question. Truthfully, when asked to assess my own motives, I can never be entirely sure. But I think what I'm on about is fact-free posting, which I've seen in multiple threads. And I wish we would wait to form our narratives before the facts are in, because we're likely to get it wrong otherwise. And in a world where 63 million Americans (not including you, I think) decided it was a good idea to elect a corrupt unfit imbecile President of the United States, I've concluded that it's important to highlight the dos and don'ts of rational decision-making.
 
So, an unnamed woman claims that a teenage boy put his hand over her mouth at a party sometime in the early '80's. Wow.

I was at a lot of parties in the early 80's. Color me unmoved by this tale of terror, and sudden reveal at the most opportune time. If this is all it takes to ruin a dude then we're screwed.
Is that really all you got from that story? And I’m on record that if she stays anonymous probably nothing can be done. But I know why she would remain that way, because her entire life would be wrecked. But I’d sure hope that most people see an attempted rape as a little more than a kid out his hand over her mouth.
 
An unnamed women claims that a 17 year old young man sexually assaulted her and that the memory of that haunts her to this day. She claims that she brings it up only because this same fellow is now to be elevated to the Supreme Court. I have never been to a party where I witnessed such a thing. Color me moved.

My oldest daughter is a college senior. When she was in high school a boy grabbed her ass and made a lewd comment. My daughter, being pretty shy, cried but didn't say anything until a teacher or staff member asked her what was wrong. The kid was hauled in of course, and his parents. He wrote an apology to my daughter and so far as anyone can tell never caused anyone any further trouble.

So in the absence of any further accusations against this then 16 year old kid, would my daughter rush forward 35 years from now with this high school ass grab story in an attempt to ruin the guy? Should she? No effing way.

If there is more to this story, or further accusations or corroboration, then we'll talk. As it is, it's absurd.
Wonder what you’d think if he’d tried to rape her? Seriously, there’s a huge difference between the two.
 
Is that really all you got from that story? And I’m on record that if she stays anonymous probably nothing can be done. But I know why she would remain that way, because her entire life would be wrecked. But I’d sure hope that most people see an attempted rape as a little more than a kid out his hand over her mouth.
Interesting how people love to question the motives of truth tellers, as if every one is dying to ruin their lives for 15 minutes of fame.
 
That's a good and fair question. Truthfully, when asked to assess my own motives, I can never be entirely sure. But I think what I'm on about is fact-free posting, which I've seen in multiple threads. And I wish we would wait to form our narratives before the facts are in, because we're likely to get it wrong otherwise. And in a world where 63 million Americans (not including you, I think) decided it was a good idea to elect a corrupt unfit imbecile President of the United States, I've concluded that it's important to highlight the dos and don'ts of rational decision-making.

I believe I'd have to agree with all of this. Boring as that might be. I'm off to the pub in any event.
 
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Is that really all you got from that story? And I’m on record that if she stays anonymous probably nothing can be done. But I know why she would remain that way, because her entire life would be wrecked. But I’d sure hope that most people see an attempted rape as a little more than a kid out his hand over her mouth.
people seem to disagree about what constitutes assault. I have been reading mysteries and one author I like is Margaret Maron. Her main character is a female judge in North Carolina. In https://www.margaretmaron.com/deborah/sand-sharks/
Maron's character is essentially sexually assaulted by a fellow judge in a way that is somewhat analogous to what the woman alleges about Kavenaugh. Another fellow slugs the offending judge and that is all the character does about it. All this to illustrate that it seems Maron doesn't think that such assault amounts to anything big that should cause her to report the offender.
 
Aggressive credulity on the right over the ages:
the "murder" of Vince Foster; Obama birth certificate; the claim that climate change is a fraud...the litany of utter crap the right willfully believes in the service of its policy goals is epic. Heck, we should go back to Clarence Thomas and his history of abusive behavior towards women including Anita Hill.
I’m talking about right now when you post about aggressive credulity immediately after posting in a way that demonstrates you’ve decided to believe every word of an anonymous allegation. What do you call that?
 
I’m talking about right now when you post about aggressive credulity immediately after posting in a way that demonstrates you’ve decided to believe every word of an anonymous allegation. What do you call that?
why do you say I have decided to believe it? For what it is worth there is nothing in the allegation that strikes me as particularly unbelievable. Is there for you? Young men have been behaving as sexual aggressors towards women since...well...since before there were men at all.
 
why do you say I have decided to believe it? For what it is worth there is nothing in the allegation that strikes me as particularly unbelievable. Is there for you? Young men have been behaving as sexual aggressors towards women since...well...since before there were men at all.
Did I misunderstand this:

An unnamed women claims that a 17 year old young man sexually assaulted her and that the memory of that haunts her to this day. She claims that she brings it up only because this same fellow is now to be elevated to the Supreme Court. I have never been to a party where I witnessed such a thing. Color me moved.

Are you often moved by unproven unsubstantiated allegations about a real person?
 
Did I misunderstand this:



Are you often moved by unproven unsubstantiated allegations about a real person?
To be fair to iu@att, being "moved" by something doesn't necessarily imply that one accepts it as truth. Have you ever said something to the effect of, "Oh, that's awful, I hope that's not true?" That would be an example of something moving you, even if you haven't yet determined it's a fact.
 
I Received Some of Kozinski’s Infamous Gag List Emails. I’m Baffled by Kavanaugh’s Responses to Questions About Them.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics...ls-senate-hearings.html?via=homepage_taps_top

In his hearings, Kavanaugh was asked by Sens. Orrin Hatch and Mazie Hirono if he was aware of the email list, and if he had received emails from Kozinski with sexually explicit content. In response to these questions, he said he couldn’t recall anything like that. And, in response to a written question for the record—“Has Judge Kozinski ever made comments about sexual matters to you, either in jest or otherwise?”—Kavanaugh responded, “I do not remember any such comments.”​
 
Are you often moved by unproven unsubstantiated allegations
Well, I wouldn't advocate going to war over unproven and unsubstantiated allegations like some people around here. But the fact is that a real woman is making those allegations about K. Her name will inevitably emerge and, like Anita Hill, the GOP will inevitably crucify her for daring to make those allegations. Hell, look what their "aggressive credulity" has done to Mueller. Yeah, I would say that is moving for me.
 
Well, I wouldn't advocate going to war over unproven and unsubstantiated allegations like some people around here. But the fact is that a real woman is making those allegations about K. Her name will inevitably emerge and, like Anita Hill, the GOP will inevitably crucify her for daring to make those allegations. Hell, look what their "aggressive credulity" has done to Mueller. Yeah, I would say that is moving for me.
So you believe this anonymous woman’s allegation because you hate all Republicans. You could have saved us some time on this.
 
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I guess the question I have is whether our standards are such that even actions by teenagers - long before their brains are fully developed - are going to be judged in accordance with the actions we'd expect of someone in their 40s, or even their late 20s.

I'm hesitant to give this standard the same credence as that which we'd use for actions during one's full adulthood. Otherwise, we'll either disqualify the entire population or get left with someone like Mike Pence as the sole qualified candidate. I'd much rather have someone with a small skeleton in their closet, and a regret or two, with which to understand with more depth the vagaries of life.
 
So you believe this anonymous woman’s allegation because you hate all Republicans. You could have saved us some time on this.
What in the world?! I could only say that the allegations are entirely believable. I don't have any special knowledge beyond what Rock has posted in the New Yorker article. Mr. Bing tells a valuable story of his own personal experience with such an allegation in which he was falsely accused. I guess the question for you is whether the truth of the allegations matters to you in one way or another. It seems clear that the truth of the allegations doesn't matter to the current GOP. It is convenient for them to put K on the court and so that is what they will do. What are these allegations compared to the much better sourced allegations against Trump? The truth of the allegations, at least with respect to the appointment to the SC doesn't matter to me. I am opposed to K's appointment.
 
I guess the question I have is whether our standards are such that even actions by teenagers - long before their brains are fully developed - are going to be judged in accordance with the actions we'd expect of someone in their 40s, or even their late 20s.

I'm hesitant to give this standard the same credence as that which we'd use for actions during one's full adulthood. Otherwise, we'll either disqualify the entire population or get left with someone like Mike Pence as the sole qualified candidate. I'd much rather have someone with a small skeleton in their closet, and a regret or two, with which to understand with more depth the vagaries of life.
A question for you is just how small a "skeleton" this is? Let's suppose we assume the allegations are true as stated. You seem to suggest they don't qualify as significant. Is that right? Why shouldn't they be disqualifying for a position given the great number of qualified candidates without such baggage?
 
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