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It isn't in schools

The book is still in the school. This is like the Fishers library complaint from a few weeks ago. They moved the book/poems from the elementary section of the school to the middle school section.



You can see the complaint in there

She thought the poem was written by Oprah.

I have no problem that this was sent through a review board and it got sent to the middle schools (I don't think elementary school kids are going to understand it), but for her to say there was hate messaging in there shows a real bias. She quoted the pages she was talking about, which the article quotes. That's not hate speech.

People want to complain about money being wasted. Here you go. How many unnecessary complaints are taxpayers paying for in Florida like this when it's not necessary?
 
Ridiculous. Some administrators get sold a bogus idea from some pointy-head dude and then an entire school district has to suffer. Keep the standards high and the AP courses. Looks as if the parents are against this plan but of course it’s approved 6-1 by clueless dolts.
 
Ridiculous. Some administrators get sold a bogus idea from some pointy-head dude and then an entire school district has to suffer. Keep the standards high and the AP courses. Looks as if the parents are against this plan but of course it’s approved 6-1 by clueless dolts.
Because those 6 clueless dolts know more than the 2,900 parents who signed the petition.

You will fall in line. This is for your own good.
 
I guess they need the honors classes for college admissions? Otherwise, they're probably better off learning on their own anyway. Its 2023, you need high school for the diploma but you can learn anything whenever you want.
 
How dare you two question the educational professionals!
I know, I know. They have degrees - sometimes even advanced - in Education. They’re smart . . . Like Fredo.

We’re never going to reverse this country’s decline until the teachers unions are deposited down the Memory Hole and parents are given much more control over school boards and administrators. You know it’s struck a nerve when parents are considered as terrorists and when age-inappropriate books are moved to other sections of a library and it’s book banning
 
How dare you two question the educational professionals!
The elected school board members are educational professionals? Silly me. I thought they were voted in to represent the community.
It seems like the implication is that the school board is some sort of ivory tower group. The school board members I have known live in the town and do their best at a near volunteer position.
Or am I missing something here?
 
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The elected school board members are educational professionals? Silly me. I thought they were voted in to represent the community.
It seems like the implication is that the school board is some sort of ivory tower group. The school board members I have known live in the town and do their best at a near volunteer position.
Or am I missing something here?
You are missing something here.

These ideas don't emanate from the school board. The come from the administrations. Then the school boards say "wer'e not the educational professionals, we need to follow the administrators."
 
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Ridiculous. Some administrators get sold a bogus idea from some pointy-head dude and then an entire school district has to suffer. Keep the standards high and the AP courses. Looks as if the parents are against this plan but of course it’s approved 6-1 by clueless dolts.
Who needs AP classes when you can learn how gay sex gets people off and where to buy sex toys?

 
How so?

Quoting Hitler and then trying to defend it is never a good look.
First, let me say, I have no idea who this group is and they very well might be way too fringe for me to ever support.

But let's try to be objective about this: they were quoting Hitler to show that the school boards they were opposing were acting like Hitler.

Now, I think that is stupid. But it is not, as the author implies, quoting Hitler because they think he was some font of wisdom. The author, and Zeke, are intentionally misinterpreting the intent of that group, trying to paint them as Hitler supporters or that they don't know who Hitler was.

This is a good lesson, though: never quote Hitler, because your opponents will try, no matter how dishonestly and disingenuously, to call you a Hitler supporter. You're better off quoting 1984.
 
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First, let me say, I have no idea who this group is and they very well might be way too fringe for me to ever support.

But let's try to be objective about this: they were quoting Hitler to show that the school boards they were opposing were acting like Hitler.

Now, I think that is stupid. But it is not, as the author implies, quoting Hitler because they think he was some font of wisdom. The author, and Zeke, are intentionally misinterpreting the intent of that group, trying to paint them as Hitler supporters or that they don't know who Hitler was.

This is a good lesson, though: never quote Hitler, because your opponents will try, no matter how dishonestly and disingenuously, to call you a Hitler supporter. You're better off quoting 1984.

The problem I have with this is that after the quote came out, they doubled down and tried to defend it and it wasn't until later that they condemned the man who said it.

It was their newsletter. They knew who the quote was by. That was a choice they made to be associated with that quote, no one else.

Don't quote a dictator responsible for millions of murders and you don't open yourself up to criticism.
 
The problem I have with this is that after the quote came out, they doubled down and tried to defend it and it wasn't until later that they condemned the man who said it.

It was their newsletter. They knew who the quote was by. That was a choice they made to be associated with that quote, no one else.

Don't quote a dictator responsible for millions of murders and you don't open yourself up to criticism.
They were attributing the sentiment of the quote to their enemies, not themselves. Bust on them for using ridiculous hyperbole, fine. But intentionally trying to say they support Hitler or don't know about Hitler is pure sophistry.
 
First, let me say, I have no idea who this group is and they very well might be way too fringe for me to ever support.

But let's try to be objective about this: they were quoting Hitler to show that the school boards they were opposing were acting like Hitler.

Now, I think that is stupid. But it is not, as the author implies, quoting Hitler because they think he was some font of wisdom. The author, and Zeke, are intentionally misinterpreting the intent of that group, trying to paint them as Hitler supporters or that they don't know who Hitler was.

This is a good lesson, though: never quote Hitler, because your opponents will try, no matter how dishonestly and disingenuously, to call you a Hitler supporter. You're better off quoting 1984.
They’re a group of mothers that don’t want gender bending nonsense and CRT shoved down their children’s throat.

Super fringe.
 
They were attributing the sentiment of the quote to their enemies, not themselves. Bust on them for using ridiculous hyperbole, fine. But intentionally trying to say they support Hitler or don't know about Hitler is pure sophistry.

Brad, you're smarter then I, so please use normal words that I don't have to look up. Thanks.

With that being said, my problem with it is I do think they know about Hitler and still chose to use the quote. Out of all the people in the world you could quote, choosing one of the worst in history shouldn't be a go to. (I don't think they support the actions of Hitler, for the record).
 
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Brad, you're smarter then I, so please use normal words that I don't have to look up. Thanks.

With that being said, my problem with it is I do think they know about Hitler and still chose to use the quote. Out of all the people in the world you could quote, choosing one of the worst in history shouldn't be a go to. (I don't think they support the actions of Hitler, for the record).

"You can't say bomb on an airplane."
 
You can almost smell the vagisil and kitty litter in her posts.

Reminds one of the scent at Indiana Women's games, where the crones crowd the floor salivating over potential morsels.
Well, since this is a computer message board, that smell is obviously present in the basement abode or library terminal that is your current posting spot.
 
Brad, you're smarter then I, so please use normal words that I don't have to look up. Thanks.

With that being said, my problem with it is I do think they know about Hitler and still chose to use the quote. Out of all the people in the world you could quote, choosing one of the worst in history shouldn't be a go to. (I don't think they support the actions of Hitler, for the record).
*than
 
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"Anti-racism" or CRT theory about "systemic racism" and its reasoning have a profound effect on what is going on in schools in some places. Here's one example I've discussed several times.

What's striking about this is that the teachers and administrators in this school could not be more progressive or race conscious, and yet the theory is that "systemic racism" is making black students tardy to class and causing disruptions, while also less qualified to take honors classes as freshman:

"Parents of Black students at Oak Park and River Forest High School told the Tribune their students have received disparate treatment from faculty and staff compared with white students.

Melanie McQueen, president of the African American Parents for Purposeful Leadership in Education in Oak Park since 2013, said Black students are punished more than white students, often being marked late and/or receiving detention.

About 57% of disciplinary infractions reported in the 2021-2022 school year at the high school were against Black students compared with about 22% against white students, according to school data. Black students make up about 18% of the student body, whereas white students make up about 56%.

. . . . . . . . . . . .
Greg Johnson, Oak Park River Forest High School’s superintendent, and Lynda Parker, assistant superintendent and principal for the school, said since they have been in the district — seven and six years, respectively — many programs and policies have been put in place to be equitable and race conscious.

The school passed a racial equity policy, changed freshman year curriculum and amended its approaches to punishment to be less exclusionary and more restorative and educational,
Johnson and Parker said.

“We work daily trying to combat that by keeping it on the forefront of not only our minds but in our conversations and our actions so that we are not shying away from the challenges that are presented,” Parker said. “This is going to be constant work because of how we started as a country.”"


What they don't say is that OPRF is a very heterogeneous socioeconomic population and, unfortunately, the kids who are from the lower end of that spectrum are predominantly black (living on the east side of Oak Park, next to the dangerous Chicago neighborhood of Austin), with the higher end predominantly white.

In other words, this isn't a race issue, it is a poverty/home culture one. But rather than try to tackle that (which can't be solved by a high school admin), they become "race conscious," eliminate honors programs for freshman, and cut back on discipline in the schools.
 
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"Anti-racism" or CRT theory about "systemic racism" and its reasoning have a profound effect on what is going on it schools in some places. Here's one example I've discussed several times.

What's striking about this is that the teachers and administrators in this school could not be more progressive or race conscious, and yet the theory is that "systemic racism" is making black students tardy to class and causing disruptions, while also less qualified to take honors classes as freshman:

"Parents of Black students at Oak Park and River Forest High School told the Tribune their students have received disparate treatment from faculty and staff compared with white students.

Melanie McQueen, president of the African American Parents for Purposeful Leadership in Education in Oak Park since 2013, said Black students are punished more than white students, often being marked late and/or receiving detention.

About 57% of disciplinary infractions reported in the 2021-2022 school year at the high school were against Black students compared with about 22% against white students, according to school data. Black students make up about 18% of the student body, whereas white students make up about 56%.

. . . . . . . . . . . .
Greg Johnson, Oak Park River Forest High School’s superintendent, and Lynda Parker, assistant superintendent and principal for the school, said since they have been in the district — seven and six years, respectively — many programs and policies have been put in place to be equitable and race conscious.

The school passed a racial equity policy, changed freshman year curriculum and amended its approaches to punishment to be less exclusionary and more restorative and educational,
Johnson and Parker said.

“We work daily trying to combat that by keeping it on the forefront of not only our minds but in our conversations and our actions so that we are not shying away from the challenges that are presented,” Parker said. “This is going to be constant work because of how we started as a country.”"


What they don't say is that OPRF is a very heterogeneous socioeconomic population and, unfortunately, the kids who are from the lower end of that spectrum are predominantly black (living on the east side of Oak Park, next to the dangerous Chicago neighborhood of Austin), with the higher end predominantly white.

In other words, this isn't a race issue, it is a poverty/home culture one. But rather than try to tackle that (which can't be solved by a high school admin), they become "race conscious," eliminate honors programs for freshman, and cut back on discipline in the schools.

Fantastic post. It deserves a more thoughtful response than I can give at hte moment, but looking forward to circling back on this.
 
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"Anti-racism" or CRT theory about "systemic racism" and its reasoning have a profound effect on what is going on in schools in some places. Here's one example I've discussed several times.

What's striking about this is that the teachers and administrators in this school could not be more progressive or race conscious, and yet the theory is that "systemic racism" is making black students tardy to class and causing disruptions, while also less qualified to take honors classes as freshman:

"Parents of Black students at Oak Park and River Forest High School told the Tribune their students have received disparate treatment from faculty and staff compared with white students.

Melanie McQueen, president of the African American Parents for Purposeful Leadership in Education in Oak Park since 2013, said Black students are punished more than white students, often being marked late and/or receiving detention.

About 57% of disciplinary infractions reported in the 2021-2022 school year at the high school were against Black students compared with about 22% against white students, according to school data. Black students make up about 18% of the student body, whereas white students make up about 56%.

. . . . . . . . . . . .
Greg Johnson, Oak Park River Forest High School’s superintendent, and Lynda Parker, assistant superintendent and principal for the school, said since they have been in the district — seven and six years, respectively — many programs and policies have been put in place to be equitable and race conscious.

The school passed a racial equity policy, changed freshman year curriculum and amended its approaches to punishment to be less exclusionary and more restorative and educational,
Johnson and Parker said.

“We work daily trying to combat that by keeping it on the forefront of not only our minds but in our conversations and our actions so that we are not shying away from the challenges that are presented,” Parker said. “This is going to be constant work because of how we started as a country.”"


What they don't say is that OPRF is a very heterogeneous socioeconomic population and, unfortunately, the kids who are from the lower end of that spectrum are predominantly black (living on the east side of Oak Park, next to the dangerous Chicago neighborhood of Austin), with the higher end predominantly white.

In other words, this isn't a race issue, it is a poverty/home culture one. But rather than try to tackle that (which can't be solved by a high school admin), they become "race conscious," eliminate honors programs for freshman, and cut back on discipline in the schools.
When you talk about home culture I am thinking it is the absence of fathers. The government is a bad father and can't replace a Dad being in the home day in and day out. One thing I am thankful for is that there were times where I was tempted to do something wrong and then thought, "If I do this and get caught then Dad just might kill me". I've told this story before. But when I was 14 I told my Dad no when he told me to do something. He said, "come on Van do what I say". In my mind since I was the same size as him and he was old then I as a haughty young man said, "NO, I WILL NOT" I raised my hand to him and he had a very serious look. He grabs me by the wrists and I end up falling to my knees. With seething anger he says, "Are you gonna do what I say now?" I said, "Yes Sir". Thank God for my Dad. It put me in my place and that was a good thing.
 
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This book review is less interesting for its documentation of yet another instance of anti-racist thinking(read: "systemic racism") leading to dumb pedagogical choices (the elimination of educational tracking by ability) and more interesting for pointing out the "liberal blind spot" regarding education and American public policy in general: socioeconomic class is the real driver of disparities in America, not race.


Some excerpts:

"And Shaker Heights residents went further. Sometimes towns have a racially-diverse population but the individual public schools are grossly imbalanced. In 1970, the Shaker Heights community agreed to integrate the elementary school voluntarily, without the pressure of a court order. . . To this day, unlike many inner-city suburbs that flipped from all white to all black, Shaker Heights remains majority white. And the school population is racially integrated: 43 percent of students are black, 41 percent white, eight percent multiracial, three percent Hispanic and three percent Asian.

While racial integration of Shaker Heights has been a priority, however, economic integration has not. Shaker Heights is very liberal community, which voted for Joe Biden over Donald Trump by 88 percent to 12 percent in 2020, but the “Shaker Heights Dream” of a multiracial community, which Meckler links to Dr. Martin Luther King’s dream of racial harmony, does not extend to King’s closely-related dream of economic inclusion.

The black suburban pioneers in Shaker Heights were “accomplished professionals” in similar economic stations to the white residents. “People of all races in Shaker Heights were wealthier than those living in Cleveland,” Meckler notes, “and they sought to keep it that way.” Many black professionals in Shaker Heights, for example, opposed a 1970 effort to build 14 public housing units in the town. And both black and white families worked against zoning changes that would diversify the community economically by allowing more multifamily housing. As Ted Mason, a Shaker Heights resident and black dentist, explained:

If I live next door to a high school dropout, his experiences after dropping out are far different than mine, and can I have great hope that his aspirations for his children are the same as mine? No, I can’t have any great hope.
As I note in my own new book, Excluded: How Snob Zoning, NIMBYism, and Class Bias Build the Walls We Don’t See, wealthy black families in places such as Prince George’s County, Maryland have sought to exclude poor black families while wealthy whites in La Crosse, Wisconsin have sought to exclude lower-income whites. The rise in economically discriminatory zoning helps explain why income segregation has doubled in America since passage of the 1968 Fair Housing Act while racial segregation has declined by 30 percent.

This phenomenon—racial integration without economic inclusion—is a common liberal blind spot and plays out in the realm of higher education as well. At Harvard College, for example, 71 percent of black, Hispanic, and Native American students come from the richest one-fifth of the black, Hispanic and Native American populations nationally. A majority of Harvard College students identify as students of color, yet the college also has 15 times as many wealthy students as low-income students."

The conclusion (to which we should say Amen!):

"For almost seventy years, Shaker Heights has been a leader in creating something as valuable as it is rare in America: an integrated community with integrated schools. It’s good for the country and good for democracy when people of different backgrounds come together to live and to learn. But Americans also believe in merit and high standards for their kids, so one can hope that a resilient community that has been a model for so long will take the necessary steps to sustain its inspiring experiment."
 
This book review is less interesting for its documentation of yet another instance of anti-racist thinking(read: "systemic racism") leading to dumb pedagogical choices (the elimination of educational tracking by ability) and more interesting for pointing out the "liberal blind spot" regarding education and American public policy in general: socioeconomic class is the real driver of disparities in America, not race.


Some excerpts:

"And Shaker Heights residents went further. Sometimes towns have a racially-diverse population but the individual public schools are grossly imbalanced. In 1970, the Shaker Heights community agreed to integrate the elementary school voluntarily, without the pressure of a court order. . . To this day, unlike many inner-city suburbs that flipped from all white to all black, Shaker Heights remains majority white. And the school population is racially integrated: 43 percent of students are black, 41 percent white, eight percent multiracial, three percent Hispanic and three percent Asian.

While racial integration of Shaker Heights has been a priority, however, economic integration has not. Shaker Heights is very liberal community, which voted for Joe Biden over Donald Trump by 88 percent to 12 percent in 2020, but the “Shaker Heights Dream” of a multiracial community, which Meckler links to Dr. Martin Luther King’s dream of racial harmony, does not extend to King’s closely-related dream of economic inclusion.

The black suburban pioneers in Shaker Heights were “accomplished professionals” in similar economic stations to the white residents. “People of all races in Shaker Heights were wealthier than those living in Cleveland,” Meckler notes, “and they sought to keep it that way.” Many black professionals in Shaker Heights, for example, opposed a 1970 effort to build 14 public housing units in the town. And both black and white families worked against zoning changes that would diversify the community economically by allowing more multifamily housing. As Ted Mason, a Shaker Heights resident and black dentist, explained:


As I note in my own new book, Excluded: How Snob Zoning, NIMBYism, and Class Bias Build the Walls We Don’t See, wealthy black families in places such as Prince George’s County, Maryland have sought to exclude poor black families while wealthy whites in La Crosse, Wisconsin have sought to exclude lower-income whites. The rise in economically discriminatory zoning helps explain why income segregation has doubled in America since passage of the 1968 Fair Housing Act while racial segregation has declined by 30 percent.

This phenomenon—racial integration without economic inclusion—is a common liberal blind spot and plays out in the realm of higher education as well. At Harvard College, for example, 71 percent of black, Hispanic, and Native American students come from the richest one-fifth of the black, Hispanic and Native American populations nationally. A majority of Harvard College students identify as students of color, yet the college also has 15 times as many wealthy students as low-income students."

The conclusion (to which we should say Amen!):

"For almost seventy years, Shaker Heights has been a leader in creating something as valuable as it is rare in America: an integrated community with integrated schools. It’s good for the country and good for democracy when people of different backgrounds come together to live and to learn. But Americans also believe in merit and high standards for their kids, so one can hope that a resilient community that has been a model for so long will take the necessary steps to sustain its inspiring experiment."


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This book review is less interesting for its documentation of yet another instance of anti-racist thinking(read: "systemic racism") leading to dumb pedagogical choices (the elimination of educational tracking by ability) and more interesting for pointing out the "liberal blind spot" regarding education and American public policy in general: socioeconomic class is the real driver of disparities in America, not race.


Some excerpts:

"And Shaker Heights residents went further. Sometimes towns have a racially-diverse population but the individual public schools are grossly imbalanced. In 1970, the Shaker Heights community agreed to integrate the elementary school voluntarily, without the pressure of a court order. . . To this day, unlike many inner-city suburbs that flipped from all white to all black, Shaker Heights remains majority white. And the school population is racially integrated: 43 percent of students are black, 41 percent white, eight percent multiracial, three percent Hispanic and three percent Asian.

While racial integration of Shaker Heights has been a priority, however, economic integration has not. Shaker Heights is very liberal community, which voted for Joe Biden over Donald Trump by 88 percent to 12 percent in 2020, but the “Shaker Heights Dream” of a multiracial community, which Meckler links to Dr. Martin Luther King’s dream of racial harmony, does not extend to King’s closely-related dream of economic inclusion.

The black suburban pioneers in Shaker Heights were “accomplished professionals” in similar economic stations to the white residents. “People of all races in Shaker Heights were wealthier than those living in Cleveland,” Meckler notes, “and they sought to keep it that way.” Many black professionals in Shaker Heights, for example, opposed a 1970 effort to build 14 public housing units in the town. And both black and white families worked against zoning changes that would diversify the community economically by allowing more multifamily housing. As Ted Mason, a Shaker Heights resident and black dentist, explained:


As I note in my own new book, Excluded: How Snob Zoning, NIMBYism, and Class Bias Build the Walls We Don’t See, wealthy black families in places such as Prince George’s County, Maryland have sought to exclude poor black families while wealthy whites in La Crosse, Wisconsin have sought to exclude lower-income whites. The rise in economically discriminatory zoning helps explain why income segregation has doubled in America since passage of the 1968 Fair Housing Act while racial segregation has declined by 30 percent.

This phenomenon—racial integration without economic inclusion—is a common liberal blind spot and plays out in the realm of higher education as well. At Harvard College, for example, 71 percent of black, Hispanic, and Native American students come from the richest one-fifth of the black, Hispanic and Native American populations nationally. A majority of Harvard College students identify as students of color, yet the college also has 15 times as many wealthy students as low-income students."

The conclusion (to which we should say Amen!):

"For almost seventy years, Shaker Heights has been a leader in creating something as valuable as it is rare in America: an integrated community with integrated schools. It’s good for the country and good for democracy when people of different backgrounds come together to live and to learn. But Americans also believe in merit and high standards for their kids, so one can hope that a resilient community that has been a model for so long will take the necessary steps to sustain its inspiring experiment."
To add to that, I also think that for well off liberals in particular, there is a healthy distaste to tell people, "You know, your shitty decisions are probably at the very least somewhat a factor of why you are where you are." I would bet if you checked those decently well off and racially mixed residents that you would find some pretty clear patterns that aren't popular to tell people.
 
Of course not. It’s pushing back against the extreme right agenda that has been setting the agenda for these cultural battles. I’m heartened that it appears to be starting to cause a well deserved backlash .
Please note that it is possible to write an article highlighting stupidity in the weeding out of books while not using the word "ban." Or maybe it's not "banning" when done while invoking "equity?"

 
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