It isn't in schools

[Cthulhu85]

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Went and found the video and I don't see how any additional context helps. Bunch of lying going on at the administrative level across the state and that does play a big factor when it comes to parent/school relationships.

My school district is about to come and ask for another tax abatement to raise teacher salaries and I think just based on the way things have gone the past few years that they are possibly going to have a fight on their hands. Every other school ask has breezed through since I moved here. And stuff like this is why. The trust is shot. Even with the school board switch in my area.

I'd be curious to see when these teachers last got a pay raise or when the last adjustment to the pay scales were. If they have still been getting annual raises like my friend and his wife then they don't need it. My friend is a high school history teacher and his wife is an elementary school principal in Tennessee. Combined their household income is 2.5X the national average.

Not sure if people know this but teachers salaries are public record. I know what teachers make and it's much better than they like to lead people to believe.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

I'd be curious to see when these teachers last got a pay raise or when the last adjustment to the pay scales were. If they have still been getting annual raises like my friend and his wife then they don't need it.

Who determines whether they "need" it or not? You? If your friend and his wife feel they don't need the raise, they can always refuse it, or give the excess money back to their schools. I would think with all the rampaging inflation, all people would need all the raises they can get.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Who determines whether they "need" it or not? You? If your friend and his wife feel they don't need the raise, they can always refuse it, or give the excess money back to their schools. I would think with all the rampaging inflation, all people would need all the raises they can get.

I think the low end of the pay scale could use a raise. The high end isn't too bad.

Honestly though, I think it is the administration that needs to take a cut. There is an awful lot of unnecessary overhead that doesn't teach. People like the DEI officer in my district that makes $80k.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

I think the low end of the pay scale could use a raise. The high end isn't too bad.

Honestly though, I think it is the administration that needs to take a cut. There is an awful lot of unnecessary overhead that doesn't teach. People like the DEI officer in my district that makes $80k.

I think we can agree that districts do tend to be top heavy. That's not what C85 was saying, though.

 

[Cthulhu85]

Who determines whether they "need" it or not? You? If your friend and his wife feel they don't need the raise, they can always refuse it, or give the excess money back to their schools. I would think with all the rampaging inflation, all people would need all the raises they can get.

Considering their salaries are paid with taxpayer money, then yeah, I and all other taxpayers should have a say.
They knew or at least should have known what to expect when deciding on becoming a teacher.

For teachers that are truly underpaid it's probably more of an issue of which district they work in and how the state allocates the money they have.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Considering their salaries are paid with taxpayer money, then yeah, I and all other taxpayers should have a say.
They knew or at least should have known what to expect when deciding on becoming a teacher.

For teachers that are truly underpaid it's probably more of an issue of which district they work in and how the state allocates the money they have.

I know where this discussion is going. Overpaid teachers...summer vacations, home by 3:30, impossible to fire, no nights or weekends, blah, blah, blah.

 

[Cthulhu85]

I think the low end of the pay scale could use a raise. The high end isn't too bad.

Honestly though, I think it is the administration that needs to take a cut. There is an awful lot of unnecessary overhead that doesn't teach. People like the DEI officer in my district that makes $80k.

That's a good point. My friends wife being a principal makes almost twice as much as him. I get that she has more responsibilities but 6 figures at the elementary school level seems a bit much after only 3 years in that role.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

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Went and found the video and I don't see how any additional context helps. Bunch of lying going on at the administrative level across the state and that does play a big factor when it comes to parent/school relationships.

My school district is about to come and ask for another tax abatement to raise teacher salaries and I think just based on the way things have gone the past few years that they are possibly going to have a fight on their hands. Every other school ask has breezed through since I moved here. And stuff like this is why. The trust is shot. Even with the school board switch in my area.

I've seen firsthand in my school district that the school boards are usually complicit in this. Were I advising them, I'd suggest the same course of action if what they wanted was to keep it out of the limelight.

I find this kind of behavior extremely undemocratic, though.

 

[Cthulhu85]

I know where this discussion is going. Overpaid teachers...summer vacations, home by 3:30, impossible to fire, no nights or weekends, blah, blah, blah.

No you don't know where it's going. Wasn't even thinking about that.

As of June of last year the minimum for first year teachers in Indiana is set at $40,000. Find me similar entry level positions that pay significantly more. The fact is teaching jobs don't produce revenue and their is only so much money to go around. How much to teachers think they should make?

Test scores and literacy are in decline all over the country.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

No you don't know where it's going. Wasn't even thinking about that.

As of June of last year the minimum for first year teachers in Indiana is set at $40,000. Find me similar entry level positions that pay significantly more. The fact is teaching jobs don't produce revenue and their is only so much money to go around. How much to teachers think they should make?

Test scores and literacy are in decline all over the country.

Like I said...

 

[Cthulhu85]

Like I said...

And what exactly did you say? 40k isn't overpaid but it's not minimum wage either.

Pay also reflects difficulty of coursework and job responsibilities. Teachers don't have to worry much about job stability or security. That benefit is worth quite a bit.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

And what exactly did you say? 40k isn't overpaid but it's not minimum wage either.

Pay also reflects difficulty of coursework and job responsibilities. Teachers don't have to worry much about job stability or security. That benefit is worth quite a bit.

So, teachers get paid too much, and they can't be fired. I guess I left off it's too easy of a job, but I did mention summer breaks, weekends, and evenings.
You've checked off the majority of the boxes.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

I know you are being funny, but it is wholly inappropriate and is still an abuse of power no matter if the teacher is male or female.

Weekend_Show on TikTok

Teacher Trial #SNL #tonightshow #comedey #foryou

www.tiktok.com

 

[Cthulhu85]

So, teachers get paid too much, and they can't be fired. I guess I left off it's too easy of a job, but I did mention summer breaks, weekends, and evenings.
You've checked off the majority of the boxes.

I think most teachers are paid fairly. It's extremely hard to get fired as a teacher and job security is a heck of a perk. Hardly any physical labor which matters as you get older.

How much do you think teachers should be getting paid?

 

[zeke4ahs]

No you don't know where it's going. Wasn't even thinking about that.

As of June of last year the minimum for first year teachers in Indiana is set at $40,000. Find me similar entry level positions that pay significantly more. The fact is teaching jobs don't produce revenue and their is only so much money to go around. How much to teachers think they should make?

Test scores and literacy are in decline all over the country.

I know many kids in business school coming out of IU who started at 6 figures.

 

[zeke4ahs]

And what exactly did you say? 40k isn't overpaid but it's not minimum wage either.

Pay also reflects difficulty of coursework and job responsibilities. Teachers don't have to worry much about job stability or security. That benefit is worth quite a bit.

Teachers often have to take second jobs, especially if they are trying to support a family on a teacher’s salary. Teachers are leaving the profession in record numbers, and not going into education to begin with. Part of that is low salary, part of that is the attacks on education that have made a very difficult job even more difficult lately. If teachers were paid for their job responsibilities , they’d make about double their salaries.

 

[zeke4ahs]

I think most teachers are paid fairly. It's extremely hard to get fired as a teacher and job security is a heck of a perk. Hardly any physical labor which matters as you get older.

How much do you think teachers should be getting paid?

its not hard to fire a teacher. That’s a myth. All you have to do is keep track of the paperwork. Some administrators don’t want to do that. How many college graduates actually do physical labor? That should be the bar by which higher salaries are given?

 

[zeke4ahs]

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Went and found the video and I don't see how any additional context helps. Bunch of lying going on at the administrative level across the state and that does play a big factor when it comes to parent/school relationships.

My school district is about to come and ask for another tax abatement to raise teacher salaries and I think just based on the way things have gone the past few years that they are possibly going to have a fight on their hands. Every other school ask has breezed through since I moved here. And stuff like this is why. The trust is shot. Even with the school board switch in my area.

You’ll lose good teachers to other townships then.

 

[Cthulhu85]

I know many kids in business school coming out of IU who started at 6 figures.

I'd be curious where they went to live. They also got jobs for profit driven enterprises.

 

[Cthulhu85]

Teachers often have to take second jobs, especially if they are trying to support a family on a teacher’s salary. Teachers are leaving the profession in record numbers, and not going into education to begin with. Part of that is low salary, part of that is the attacks on education that have made a very difficult job even more difficult lately. If teachers were paid for their job responsibilities , they’d make about double their salaries.

It would be ridiculous if teachers made double their salaries. In most areas that would be starting out at 70-80K a year.

When teachers demand more money they are basically demanding money be taken from taxpayers paychecks. That's why there is pushback.

 

[Cthulhu85]

its not hard to fire a teacher. That’s a myth. All you have to do is keep track of the paperwork. Some administrators don’t want to do that. How many college graduates actually do physical labor? That should be the bar by which higher salaries are given?

No it isn't a myth.

Study: It's Far Too Hard to Fire Bad Teachers

A study by the Thomas B. Fordham Institute highlights the difficulties of dismissing ineffective teachers in many districts.

www.edweek.org

Why It Can Take Six Years to Fire an Inappropriate or Ineffective Teacher - PublicSchoolReview.com

Did you know it can take years to fire a public school teacher, even if the instructor is ineffective, has broken laws, or has acted inappropriately sexually towards students? Learn more about the teacher firing process and how it relates to the current debate raging on teacher tenure.

www.google.com

You'd be surprised how many college graduates end up doing something unrelated to their studies. Most everyone starts at the bottom which means they do the crap noone else wants to do because they've been there done that.

 

[IUCrazy2]

We made this assignment where you have to ask me about this so I can talk about it.

 

[stollcpa]

She says that they were pushing an agenda but flying under the radar. You tell me, what was the exact agenda being pushed? If the agenda is that there is nothing wrong with being gay or straight, what is wrong? What evidence in that video suggests it is more than that?

Why exactly bring sex into math?

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

Teachers often have to take second jobs, especially if they are trying to support a family on a teacher’s salary. Teachers are leaving the profession in record numbers, and not going into education to begin with. Part of that is low salary, part of that is the attacks on education that have made a very difficult job even more difficult lately. If teachers were paid for their job responsibilities , they’d make about double their salaries.

Increasing salaries of teachers would not improve existing teachers--they wouldn't become better just by being paid more. It might improve education by getting more of those B-school type kids you referred to into teaching.
But we'd also need to add accountability for results along with the higher salaries, just like what goes on at those businesses hiring those b-school kids at 6 figure salaries. By the way, my K-8 school district has quite a few teachers making 6 figures. A few are AWFUL teachers.

 

[GiggityGoo]

Increasing salaries of teachers would not improve existing teachers--they wouldn't become better just by being paid more. It might improve education by getting more of those B-school type kids you referred to into teaching.
But we'd also need to add accountability for results along with the higher salaries, just like what goes on at those businesses hiring those b-school kids at 6 figure salaries. By the way, my K-8 school district has quite a few teachers making 6 figures. A few are AWFUL teachers.

Educators demand a lack of accountability for their students results. In some ways I understand it. If I was a teacher I would want a union protecting me from my mediocre results.

Educators are probably 20/30% of a students performance at most. The other 70-80% are genetics and parental upbringing and guidance.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

Educators demand a lack of accountability for their students results. In some ways I understand it. If I was a teacher I would want a union protecting me from my mediocre results.

Educators are probably 20/30% of a students performance at most. The other 70-80% are genetics and parental upbringing and guidance.

Yeah, I'm gonna have to see something on that 20/30% being on eduators... otherwise I think you're pulling that out of your ass.

 

[Cthulhu85]

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We made this assignment where you have to ask me about this so I can talk about it.

Why exactly bring sex into math?

Im starting to think on an individual level these people aren't trying to push an agenda but instead legitimize their choices. Deep down biological mechanisms are telling them something is unnatural so they seek validation to assuage their feelings.

It's unfortunate that marketing, advertising, and activist groups are using them to make money and push their agendas and will dump them when they are used up and aren't convenient anymore.

 

[Cortez88]

Educators demand a lack of accountability for their students results. In some ways I understand it. If I was a teacher I would want a union protecting me from my mediocre results.

Educators are probably 20/30% of a students performance at most. The other 70-80% are genetics and parental upbringing and guidance.

Tell me you see the problem with these 2 paragraphs together.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Increasing salaries of teachers would not improve existing teachers--they wouldn't become better just by being paid more. It might improve education by getting more of those B-school type kids you referred to into teaching.
But we'd also need to add accountability for results along with the higher salaries, just like what goes on at those businesses hiring those b-school kids at 6 figure salaries. By the way, my K-8 school district has quite a few teachers making 6 figures. A few are AWFUL teachers.

Any profession has awful employees. The problem with many is how to measure success to have accountability. Any yahoo could walk into Carmel HS and have kids doing much "better" on test scores than a great teacher at Gary West. What system allows us to know the Gary teacher is doing better even though their scores are losing?

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

Any profession has awful employees. The problem with many is how to measure success to have accountability. Any yahoo could walk into Carmel HS and have kids doing much "better" on test scores than a great teacher at Gary West. What system allows us to know the Gary teacher is doing better even though their scores are losing?

The point is that teacher pay is not tied to performance. It is tied to seniority. And yes, other jobs have awful employees--and if those businesses want to stay in existence, they get rid of them. Public schools don't have the same market pressures. We can't escape that fact in this discussion.

Want to negotiate a seniority based pay scale for factory work? OK--that work is typically fungible. That is simply not true for teaching.

Re Gary and Carmel, if you have a local, property-tax based system of school funding like Illinois, making that comparison doesn't make much sense.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

The point is that teacher pay is not tied to performance. It is tied to seniority. And yes, other jobs have awful employees--and if those businesses want to stay in existence, they get rid of them. Public schools don't have the same market pressures. We can't escape that fact in this discussion.

Want to negotiate a seniority based pay scale for factory work? OK--that work is typically fungible. That is simply not true for teaching.

Re Gary and Carmel, if you have a local, property-tax based system of school funding like Illinois, making that comparison doesn't make much sense.

So does that last sentence mean you only want to compare Carmel teachers to Carmel teachers and Gary to Gary.

At IU, as an idea, professional staff raises are set by department. My department is given a 2% increase and decides how it is handed out. The idea is that the department can make it merit, person A gets more of the pie because it is viewed they are doing better. I am not sure it works that way in practice across the board.

My guess is if we tried that in schools, a lot of principals would punt and go across the board.

Americans have figured out that never making decisions means they cannot be wrong. This happens everywhere, see banks "just buy Treasury bonds" as an example.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Increasing salaries of teachers would not improve existing teachers--they wouldn't become better just by being paid more. It might improve education by getting more of those B-school type kids you referred to into teaching.
But we'd also need to add accountability for results along with the higher salaries, just like what goes on at those businesses hiring those b-school kids at 6 figure salaries. By the way, my K-8 school district has quite a few teachers making 6 figures. A few are AWFUL teachers.

Not necessarily. Raising pay may indeed improve performance. People who are paid more often feel more appreciated and try harder. Ameliorates the “I’m making this for this bullshit. F it. Not worth the effort”

 

[Cthulhu85]

One thing we all have in common. Hardly anyone in any position thinks they get paid enough. I've rarely heard someone say they get paid enough or too much.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

Not necessarily. Raising pay may indeed improve performance. People who are paid more often feel more appreciated and try harder. Ameliorates the “I’m making this for this bullshit. F it. Not worth the effort”

Any employees doing that need to be let go.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Any employees doing that need to be let go.

You know I wage war on woke!!! And I don’t like these crazy tranny lovin woke teachers. But teaching is among the most important occupations. We entrust them with what we cherish most. And it’s not an easy job. My god after my daughter has her sleepovers I’m exhausted they’re so Fing needy and annoying. But teachers are under fire like cops. And unfortunately it’s only human nature to tether salary to value and appreciation and recognition and if you are already under appreciated and your job is only getting more and more difficult how else are you to feel. I’m with crazy and others who would like to see teachers paid more and perhaps admins paid less. But who knows maybe there is a lot to those jobs

As an aside I saw a lady driving a van by the park yesterday with a lady hanging out waving a gay pride flag honking her horn with trans people are superheroes spray painted on the side. People are nuts

 

[DANC]

It would be ridiculous if teachers made double their salaries. In most areas that would be starting out at 70-80K a year.

When teachers demand more money they are basically demanding money be taken from taxpayers paychecks. That's why there is pushback.

The problem is teachers' unions, which cap what good teachers can make.

My daughter had a biology/chemistry teacher who go millions in scholarships for kids because she REQUIRED them to participate in science fairs (or at least do the work as if they were going to science fair). The amount of scholarships for kids from this little country school was amazing.

Yet, her salary was capped by the salary structure created by unions. Meanwhile, the lazy ass teachers who skated by only had to put their time in and they got raises for 'experience'.

Just track the downfall of American education - it started with the advent of teachers' unions.

 

[DANC]

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We made this assignment where you have to ask me about this so I can talk about it.

Poly-whatever - the next new brave frontier.

 

[mcmurtry66]

The problem is teachers' unions, which cap what good teachers can make.

My daughter had a biology/chemistry teacher who go millions in scholarships for kids because she REQUIRED them to participate in science fairs (or at least do the work as if they were going to science fair). The amount of scholarships for kids from this little country school was amazing.

Yet, her salary was capped by the salary structure created by unions. Meanwhile, the lazy ass teachers who skated by only had to put their time in and they got raises for 'experience'.

Just track the downfall of American education - it started with the advent of teachers' unions.

Who cares. Listen to me DANC. I sense somethin brewin….. that if I made either some grand gesture or just continued to hammer away I could find myself in a love triangle. Like if I fixed up an old house.

It’s going to be an incredibly interesting summer

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

You know I wage war on woke!!! And I don’t like these crazy tranny lovin woke teachers. But teaching is among the most important occupations. We entrust them with what we cherish most. And it’s not an easy job. My god after my daughter has her sleepovers I’m exhausted they’re so Fing needy and annoying. But teachers are under fire like cops. And unfortunately it’s only human nature to tether salary to value and appreciation and recognition and if you are already under appreciated and your job is only getting more and more difficult how else are you to feel. I’m with crazy and others who would like to see teachers paid more and perhaps admins paid less. But who knows maybe there is a lot to those jobs

As an aside I saw a lady driving a van by the park yesterday with a lady hanging out waving a gay pride flag honking her horn with trans people are superheroes spray painted on the side. People are nuts

I've said before that I'm in favor of turning K-12 teaching into a real profession. I agree that it is a super important job.

That means more pay. It also means more time and accountability from that profession and the goal is to attract smarter, more driven people into the field. The goal is not to throw money at the SE Missouri State grad who slid by with a 2.0 GPA in college, got that teaching degree, and now wants to feel like people appreciate them.

 

[Cthulhu85]

You know I wage war on woke!!! And I don’t like these crazy tranny lovin woke teachers. But teaching is among the most important occupations. We entrust them with what we cherish most. And it’s not an easy job. My god after my daughter has her sleepovers I’m exhausted they’re so Fing needy and annoying. But teachers are under fire like cops. And unfortunately it’s only human nature to tether salary to value and appreciation and recognition and if you are already under appreciated and your job is only getting more and more difficult how else are you to feel. I’m with crazy and others who would like to see teachers paid more and perhaps admins paid less. But who knows maybe there is a lot to those jobs

As an aside I saw a lady driving a van by the park yesterday with a lady hanging out waving a gay pride flag honking her horn with trans people are superheroes spray painted on the side. People are nuts

I bet these same people think they are oppressed and attacked and hate America. I would like to see them try this in one of their preferred countries that arent western european.