Interesting about Cupps.......

[Victorbmyboy]

A guy that plays a specific role, schematically. (Not that Wooden really has much of a game plan)

Should have put it “could be” one of the best role players in the big ten.

Roll of toilet paper for this post. Goofy…

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Wouldn't surprise me if someone gambled a 2nd rounder on him, but also wouldn't if he went undrafted. That sweet stroke will be appealing to teams, and someone might feel they can coach him up on D and play, and I'd guess someone can. But, I do think he'd benefit the most from coming back and really working on his handle, decision making, D and explosiveness. I think there's a lot of potential there.

This draft class is supposed to be weak. Like 2013 weak. So MM should go if that’s true.

 

[Hatchets7times]

Chris Reynolds....Tom Coverdale....Braden Smith....all say "Hello".

Look, I'm not saying Gabe is the next Braden Smith because they're both shorter white dudes...but to say Gabe is lacking in strength (one of the strongest guys on the team) or anything else is ridiculous. He's been thrown into a starting position on a team the lacks any sort of continuity or structure (sorry CMW, very easy to see this). Half the team doesn't know what the hell they're running on O and on D the other half acts like they've never played that end of the court in their life. Gabe is in the middle of this CF and trying to make it work all while looking like at least a mid-level B10 PG.

Chris Reynolds was a hell of a defender...however he sucked as a freshman all the way around, but was playing with a ton of other freshmen. Coverdale didn't see the light of day until RMK was gone. Braden has been paired with the best college player in the game for his two years AND is in a perfect system with possibly the best coach in the B10....and yet he's often still exposed.

Now if GC is playing like this his Junior year and has a coach that knows his arse from 3rd base, I'll agree. At this time though, anyone that gives up on this kid or pigeon holes him as nothing more than a back up PG in the B10 is off their rocker IMO.

I like him ..I'm for him.
Buy he'll never be Braden Smith good..
Indiana really missed on him !

 

[frikkenfrakken]

Wouldn't surprise me if someone gambled a 2nd rounder on him, but also wouldn't if he went undrafted. That sweet stroke will be appealing to teams, and someone might feel they can coach him up on D and play, and I'd guess someone can. But, I do think he'd benefit the most from coming back and really working on his handle, decision making, D and explosiveness. I think there's a lot of potential there.

I agree, he has a lot of potential. I question how coachable he is. He has multiple examples on his own team of what playing hard looks like, and a former NBA coach to explain it, but he still has deficiencies.

 

[frikkenfrakken]

I think they can meet with NBA people who tell them their draft position. If he is not draftable, and he takes their advice, he will play another year. Here or somewhere else. Here he obviously starts so that is a plus for us

Eh, Cav says MM says he will leave for any NBA opportunity, drafted or not, although its not clear what that really means.

 

[ams66]

Eh, Cav says MM says he will leave for any NBA opportunity, drafted or not, although its not clear what that really means.

It means he's only in college because that's his path to get to the NBA. NIL makes this even more attractive because other alternatives such as playing G-League, OTE, or overseas for a year after high school do not pay as much as popular players can earn with NIL and college ball has a larger audience.

 

[ORG]

Anybody that has written Cupps off as a starter at IU is nuts. He is more than solid defensively and once he gains confidence on the offensive end; he will be a very good all-around starting point guard in the BIG.

The kid is a winner.

He needs a bit more strength, size and experience to really blossom. All of those are easily attained.

 

[frikkenfrakken]

It means he's only in college because that's his path to get to the NBA. NIL makes this even more attractive because other alternatives such as playing G-League, OTE, or overseas for a year after high school do not pay as much as popular players can earn with NIL.

Thanks for that clarification of the 5th hand information on the future of a 19 year old. I'll take it to the bank.

 

[ORG]

Yes the freshman wall but I look at him and don't think he does anything well. I'm fine with him as a backup but just don't see him ever being a starter at Indiana or we're in trouble.

Remember he is a frosh. On past teams he would see less than 10 minutes a game. We really have not seen his potential.

 

[Ty Webb iu]

He needs a bit more strength, size and experience to really blossom. All of those are easily attained.

Couldn't disagree much more. With everything in your post.

 

[T.M.P.]

This draft class is supposed to be weak. Like 2013 weak. So MM should go if that’s true.

He may be able to work his way into the 2nd round with an extraordinary finish but as of right now he's slated as going undrafted. It would be a gamble to go this year but he'll do what he wants to do ..

He has no moves, which means he has no way to get separation without help. Plus his awareness is lacking currently, much better than Nov but he's still getting lost at times.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

He may be able to work his way into the 2nd round with an extraordinary finish but as of right now he's slated as going undrafted. It would be a gamble to go this year but he'll do what he wants to do ..

He has no moves, which means he has no way to get separation without help. Plus his awareness is lacking currently, much better than Nov but he's still getting lost at times.

I’m not saying he’s “any round material”. I’m just saying if he’s bent on going in the draft then this one is weak. The next two supposedly aren’t. From the sounds of it he is one foot out. Who knows. I sure don’t.

 

[T.M.P.]

I’m not saying he’s “any round material”. I’m just saying if he’s bent on going in the draft then this one is weak. The next two supposedly aren’t. From the sounds of it he is one foot out. Who knows. I sure don’t.

Yeah, I wasn't arguing ... just letting my mouth run so I could hear myself talk and be impressed by it.. lmao.

He has small hands and though long he doesn't have much of a wingspan. Couple that with a lack of quickness laterally and no real explosiveness.. and it's killed his draft prospects. Doesn't have the extreme athleticism or measurables for his position, so he needs a highly proficient skill set .. or a high IQ and court awareness.

He needs another year or two and needs to work his ass off this summer to develop a better handle. The awareness and better defense should come with experience.. or not.

 

[IUNorth]

Wouldn't surprise me if someone gambled a 2nd rounder on him, but also wouldn't if he went undrafted. That sweet stroke will be appealing to teams, and someone might feel they can coach him up on D and play, and I'd guess someone can. But, I do think he'd benefit the most from coming back and really working on his handle, decision making, D and explosiveness. I think there's a lot of potential there.

If Mack leaves, in my opinion, it will end up being 100% him betting on himself. I don't see him getting drafted this year, in any round.

There are soooooo many talented bball players, every year, across the globe, for him to compete with. He's too flawed as a player for an NBA GM to use one of their very valuable draft picks on him.

He's not "elite enough" at anything to stand out against the sea of other 6'6 to 6'9' kids in every draft class. And he's not "solid enough" at a lot of things, for them to feel comfortable that he'll be able to at least contribute...while hes developing and hopefully becoming an elite shooter. OG Anunobe is someone that comes to mind as a decent comp. OG was drafted because he was very solid in a number of areas, to go with his length and athleticism. He defended multiple positions well, he rebounded well, he finished at the rim well, he was a solid ball handler...NBA GMs knew he was a guy that at a minimum, he could go out and defend and rebound well enough to contribute. He ended up tightening up his shot, and became a starter level NBA guy. Mack is a decent catch and shoot, shooter, for his size. He isn't good, at all, defensively. He isn't solid with the ball going to the basket. He isn't a plus rebounder. So if his shot doesn't end up translating against NBA competition...he has nothing else right now to contribute. I say zero chance an NBA GM uses a pick for a guy like that...too risky.

None of this means he'll stay at IU, or even in college. I just don't think we'll see him in a regular season NBA uniform any time soon, if ever.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Yeah, I wasn't arguing ... just letting my mouth run so I could hear myself talk and be impressed by it.. lmao.

He has small hands and though long he doesn't have much of a wingspan. Couple that with a lack of quickness laterally and no real explosiveness.. and it's killed his draft prospects. Doesn't have the extreme athleticism or measurables for his position, so he needs a highly proficient skill set .. or a high IQ and court awareness.

He needs another year or two and needs to work his ass off this summer to develop a better handle. The awareness and better defense should come with experience.. or not.

Will show if his ego or outside factors ruin his chance.

 

[Tammany Hall]

Normally IU fans drive me nuts because they think almost no one is ready for the league and the only way to improve is college.

MM is one of the strangest 5* players I’ve ever seen. Nice jumper, kinda, but so slow and rigid with poor instincts. More college ball would help him, but he might try to improve in the pro system, which would be lower level leagues.

 

[Ty Webb iu]

He may be able to work his way into the 2nd round with an extraordinary finish but as of right now he's slated as going undrafted. It would be a gamble to go this year but he'll do what he wants to do ..

He has no moves, which means he has no way to get separation without help. Plus his awareness is lacking currently, much better than Nov but he's still getting lost at times.

And he's not a good ballhandler. He's basically a 3 and D guy that can't defend. And he's been very average from 3. Though I do believe he is a plus shooter, just hasn't shown it this year from distance. 32% from 3.

 

[IUNorth]

And he's not a good ballhandler. He's basically a 3 and D guy that can't defend. And he's been very average from 3. Though I do believe he is a plus shooter, just hasn't shown it this year from distance. 32% from 3.

Outside the obvious defensive problems Mack has with being a 3 and D guy...which is absolutely what his role will end up being when/if he ever makes it... But outside that, he isn't athletic enough. And his ball skills aren't good enough.

Outside the older guys like PJ Tucker, nearly all the 3 and D guys are long, athletic, dunkers, rebounders out of their own space, etc... Mack isn't long. He has average NBA athleticism. And he rarely ever rebounds out of his own space.

 

[T.M.P.]

Update on best three man combinations

Cupps/Trey/Kel now 16th nationally. Miya only cites one 3 man combination per team. So no idea where Cupps/Trey/Malik are currently .. but couldn't have fallen far...

I would guess if he did 4 man lineups .. IU would be sitting pretty good.

Woody has to start keeping the starters in as long as possible... it's just a much better team 1 thru 5 than it is 6 thru 9. Quit giving away leads ..

 

[IUNorth]

Update on best three man combinations

Cupps/Trey/Kel now 16th nationally. Miya only cites one 3 man combination per team. So no idea where Cupps/Trey/Malik are currently .. but couldn't have fallen far...

I would guess if he did 4 man lineups .. IU would be sitting pretty good.

Woody has to start keeping the starters in as long as possible... it's just a much better team 1 thru 5 than it is 6 thru 9. Quit giving away leads ..

Right after you started providing these lineup stats, Woody shortened his bench significantly.

If you have him paying attention, send him some thoughts on how to get the fellas to play consistently harder...for longer stretches.

And then maybe once he picks up on that...send him some clips of teams running good movement based offenses for more than 6-7 second bursts.

 

[T.M.P.]

Right after you started providing these lineup stats, Woody shortened his bench significantly.

If you have him paying attention, send him some thoughts on how to get the fellas to play consistently harder...for longer stretches.

And then maybe once he picks up on that...send him some clips of teams running good movement based offenses for more than 6-7 second bursts.

lol ...

 

[T.M.P.]

Outside the obvious defensive problems Mack has with being a 3 and D guy...which is absolutely what his role will end up being when/if he ever makes it... But outside that, he isn't athletic enough. And his ball skills aren't good enough.

Outside the older guys like PJ Tucker, nearly all the 3 and D guys are long, athletic, dunkers, rebounders out of their own space, etc... Mack isn't long. He has average NBA athleticism. And he rarely ever rebounds out of his own space.

Klay ... not saying he is but that should be his goal.

Klay only has a 6'9 wingspan, never been explosive, not really quick by NBA standards, only good enough to get 2 dribbles.... but that's enough for him.

He did though have exceptional awareness and could pass the ball .. the defense came with time.

 

[Ty Webb iu]

Update on best three man combinations

Cupps/Trey/Kel now 16th nationally. Miya only cites one 3 man combination per team. So no idea where Cupps/Trey/Malik are currently .. but couldn't have fallen far...

I would guess if he did 4 man lineups .. IU would be sitting pretty good.
Woody has to start keeping the starters in as long as possible... it's just a much better team 1 thru 5 than it is 6 thru 9. Quit giving away leads ..

I see some of these lineups Woodson has out there in the middle of the 1st half and think, wtf is he doing. And then the lead goes from 12 to 2 at halftime. Or we go from tied to down 10 at half. It's like he Woodson hates having the lead.

 

[ndhuntington]

Remember he is a frosh. On past teams he would see less than 10 minutes a game. We really have not seen his potential.

I don't see the potential plus Woodson hasn't developed anybody. Cupps needs to work on his shot to be effective he fades away when he shoots.

 

[T.M.P.]

I see some of these lineups Woodson has out there in the middle of the 1st half and think, wtf is he doing. And then the lead goes from 12 to 2 at halftime. Or we go from tied to down 10 at half. It's like he Woodson hates having the lead.

Yup, almost every game. It was fine in preseason almost everyone plays deeper, and you have to give the scrubs a chance but once it hits Jan .. it should be cut.

I think he coached so long in the pros that he doesn't have the same respect other coaches do for possessions... there's 4 times as many in an NBA season vs college .. in NCAA you can't give a single one away, NBA ball half the season is entertainment. It's just a different mindset ..

Hopefully he adapts ..

 

[Ty Webb iu]

Yup, almost every game. It was fine in preseason almost everyone plays deeper, and you have to give the scrubs a chance but once it hits Jan .. it should be cut.

I think he coached so long in the pros that he doesn't have the same respect other coaches do for possessions... there's 4 times as many in an NBA season vs college .. in NCAA you can't give a single one away, NBA ball half the season is entertainment. It's just a different mindset ..

Hopefully he adapts ..

Woodson won't adapt. We need to hope for a change.

 

[T.M.P.]

Woodson won't adapt. We need to hope for a change.

Meh ... I quit playing the coaching carousel game after Crean.. it's a tired non productive conversation equal to politics .. Plus it's counter productive to what we want. This fanbase has a reputation, good and bad. It's passionate, but currently toxic. I want no part of that..

Maybe he already has .. though not completely .. the lineups and rotations in that 2nd half vs OSU was about as good as it can get. Keep the same rotations through the whole of the next game add Sparks to beat up on Edey for a bit ...

Banks has been benched, CJ should be. Sparks also except against Edey, and Walker needs his minutes limited.. Stick with top 5, and Leal .. for a majority... bring Walker in for defense only...

 

[IUbball_lifer]

Wouldn't surprise me if someone gambled a 2nd rounder on him, but also wouldn't if he went undrafted. That sweet stroke will be appealing to teams, and someone might feel they can coach him up on D and play, and I'd guess someone can. But, I do think he'd benefit the most from coming back and really working on his handle, decision making, D and explosiveness. I think there's a lot of potential there.

There are too many good players when you consider international players. He is not on any draft radars for even the second round. Zero chance he is drafted. Zero.

 

[IUbball_lifer]

Meh ... I quit playing the coaching carousel game after Crean.. it's a tired non productive conversation equal to politics .. Plus it's counter productive to what we want. This fanbase has a reputation, good and bad. It's passionate, but currently toxic. I want no part of that..

Maybe he already has .. though not completely .. the lineups and rotations in that 2nd half vs OSU was about as good as it can get. Keep the same rotations through the whole of the next game add Sparks to beat up on Edey for a bit ...

Banks has been benched, CJ should be. Sparks also except against Edey, and Walker needs his minutes limited.. Stick with top 5, and Leal .. for a majority... bring Walker in for defense only...

Can’t disagree with that. Keep the rotation tight. I might argue to still give Gunn a little bit of a chance since he can guard and has a knack for getting in the passing lanes.

 

[T.M.P.]

what’s a “roll player”?

Someone that dates a Purdue Cow-ed.... they probably have plenty rolls to play with..

 

[IUbball_lifer]

Eh, Cav says MM says he will leave for any NBA opportunity, drafted or not, although its not clear what that really means.

He isn’t getting drafted. He isn’t on any team radars. He currently is not flashing NBA potential. But he could get there if he improves on some glaring weaknesses in the next 2 years.

 

[bbafficionado]

There are too many good players when you consider international players. He is not on any draft radars for even the second round. Zero chance he is drafted. Zero.

Just for consideration Overall shooting Cupps 39.7% from 3 : 39,1%
MM 38.3% from 3: 32% Cupps plays much better D. They play a difference of 2 minutes a game. My thought on Cupps on not shooting as much as we want is he is told not to. I heard Hillman talking on this in regard to RMK limiting certain players on shooting. Only a guess on my part but it looks like it to me. If MM goes I think he will regret it. If he plays at least another year he will hopefully show improvement. But I agree not much of a chance with what hes shown so far this year.