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Anyone open to optimism?

Do I need to issue a disclaimer before hand about how I think moving on from Woodson would be the best move?...

But, there are very tiny slivers of light...

1. Watching the team play right now, they look like they genuinely like each other. Examples...when Walker got hurt, and it was time for him to be carried off the court, half the team was stumbling over themselves to come help him. Also...later in the second half, Trey was pushing a secondary break, and he stopped and turned and flipped it back to Mgbako for a three. After the play, you could see how excited Trey was for Mgbako. Obviously playing well, and winning, improves everyone's mood. But it just looks like this team is much more bought in than most are giving them credit for. That's a big factor for the health and direction of the program.

2. Until we know who is leaving...the possibility of a solid, core group of players returning, could explain both Woodson being retained, AND McNeeley backing out. There was a lot of smoke in recent weeks about Woody, the players all leaving, etc... Maybe Dolson got assurances from a handful of the key/core players, that they'll return if Woody returns? And maybe McNeeley had been banking on a couple of them being gone when he committed? McNeeley is going to get close to 7 figures wherever he goes...if a place like Kansas has less returning starters on the wing, better chances he'll be featured more...and they are in the process of sending Furphy to the NBA.

3. Galloway, Leal, Mack, Malik, Cupps, Newton, Sparks... And then with the Brinks truck it sounds like he might have...go get 3 impact, starter level perimeter players. And use the leverage, he has earned, from TJD and Ware...to go get an elite big, all from the portal.

Obviously, if the rumors of mass player exodus are true, and we don't get very many core guys back. Then next year could end up being worse. I just think a lot of the doomsday talk about "0-32", "worse than Crean's first year", etc... are just incredibly unlikely.

And I'm still giving Dolson enough credit that he's got a good handle on the program. He's proven that in all our other sports programs. I'm not sure why men's bball would be any different.

I don't know what it ends up looking like, but I bet next year will be a lot better than most are predicting it will be right now. But I'm not certain him coming back automatically means we're going to be worse next year.

I still wish we'd move on...I think its obvious Woodson won't ever win big things at IU...so why not move on and find a guy that will/could?
I think the notion of LM not coming to IU because he's afraid of the competition for playing time is insane. If MM were to stay, at worst, LM would either replace X in the lineup, with Trey moving to point or would replace Ware, with MM and Reneau manning the other two front court slots.

IU is one of the worst 3pt shooting teams in the country, and LM, one of the best high school shooters, is afraid of competition from THAT lineup? LOL

I think your theory of LM being afraid of competition will be completely disproved when he commits to an elite program, who has far more talent on it than IU does.

Also, the assumption that Woodson will do well at all in the portal is crazy. Yes, he's gotten a few good players in a scramble in the Spring before. But he literally couldn't get ONE GUARD from the portal last year. One. His portal recruiting last year was so bad that he left a scholarship unused.

Obviously IU has zero recruits for 2024 or 2025 at the current time, but we're supposed to believe that he's a good enough recruiter to get good players, emphasis the "s" in players, this Spring?

I would think that a hugely optimistic view of next year is that IU keeps Reneau and Galloway. Loses Ware, MM, and probably Banks and Gunn. And then Woodson can get a couple of mid-major guards who shoot over 30% from three. That's being optimistic.
 
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Do I need to issue a disclaimer before hand about how I think moving on from Woodson would be the best move?...

But, there are very tiny slivers of light...

1. Watching the team play right now, they look like they genuinely like each other. Examples...when Walker got hurt, and it was time for him to be carried off the court, half the team was stumbling over themselves to come help him. Also...later in the second half, Trey was pushing a secondary break, and he stopped and turned and flipped it back to Mgbako for a three. After the play, you could see how excited Trey was for Mgbako. Obviously playing well, and winning, improves everyone's mood. But it just looks like this team is much more bought in than most are giving them credit for. That's a big factor for the health and direction of the program.

2. Until we know who is leaving...the possibility of a solid, core group of players returning, could explain both Woodson being retained, AND McNeeley backing out. There was a lot of smoke in recent weeks about Woody, the players all leaving, etc... Maybe Dolson got assurances from a handful of the key/core players, that they'll return if Woody returns? And maybe McNeeley had been banking on a couple of them being gone when he committed? McNeeley is going to get close to 7 figures wherever he goes...if a place like Kansas has less returning starters on the wing, better chances he'll be featured more...and they are in the process of sending Furphy to the NBA.

3. Galloway, Leal, Mack, Malik, Cupps, Newton, Sparks... And then with the Brinks truck it sounds like he might have...go get 3 impact, starter level perimeter players. And use the leverage, he has earned, from TJD and Ware...to go get an elite big, all from the portal.

Obviously, if the rumors of mass player exodus are true, and we don't get very many core guys back. Then next year could end up being worse. I just think a lot of the doomsday talk about "0-32", "worse than Crean's first year", etc... are just incredibly unlikely.

And I'm still giving Dolson enough credit that he's got a good handle on the program. He's proven that in all our other sports programs. I'm not sure why men's bball would be any different.

I don't know what it ends up looking like, but I bet next year will be a lot better than most are predicting it will be right now. But I'm not certain him coming back automatically means we're going to be worse next year.

I still wish we'd move on...I think its obvious Woodson won't ever win big things at IU...so why not move on and find a guy that will/could?
You think Malik is going to stick around for this shit show if Ware and McTaco leave? No chance.
 
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I think the notion of LM not coming to IU because he's afraid of the competition for playing time is insane. If MM were to stay, at worst, LM would either replace X in the lineup, with Trey moving to point or would replace Ware, with MM and Reneau manning the other two front court slots.

IU is one of the worst 3pt shooting teams in the country, and LM, one of the best high school shooters, is afraid of competition from THAT lineup? LOL

I think your theory of LM being afraid of competition will be completely disproved when he commits to an elite program, who has far more talent on it than IU does.

Also, the assumption that Woodson will do well at all in the portal is crazy. Yes, he's gotten a few good players in a scramble in the Spring before. But he literally couldn't get ONE GUARD from the portal last year. One. His portal recruiting last year was so bad that he left a scholarship unused.

Obviously IU has zero recruits for 2024 or 2025 at the current time, but we're supposed to believe that he's a good enough recruiter to get good players, emphasis the "s" in players, this Spring?

I would think that a hugely optimistic view of next year is that IU keeps Reneau and Galloway. Loses Ware, MM, and probably Banks and Gunn. And then Woodson can get a couple of mid-major guards who shoot over 30% from three. That's being optimistic.
Well said. Your optimistic view makes sense, and it’s sadly still a disaster. I think we may keep MM with big NIL. Regardless, not seeing a path to being competitive next year!
 
I am more inclined to believe his version than we're getting all the key players/starters back besides Ware.
Rabjohns is the primary source feeding Trilly. I think that's what the poster was hinting at.

Strong impression that Andrew Slater is very involved in the Trilly Handle and Slater and Rabjohns are boys.
 
Yeah, McNeeley looked at our roster of great shooters and scorers and thought, I can’t compete with that. I need to go somewhere with less talent. Like Kansas. Somewhere with a bunch of scrubs.
Maybe they simply made him an offer he couldn't refuse. It s the $elf way.
 
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Optimism you say . . . Oh, I've got optimism. Let's assume for the moment the recent rumors are exactly that . . . rumors. Now, let's assume the most recent news is fact; Zach O says, "Woodson to return to IU next season". Having posted that much, now for the optimism: Mike Woodson does return to IU next year, as the new General Manager of Basketball Operations and Dusty May steps in as the new IU Head Coach. Now THAT is some optimism . . . what say you ???
 
Do I need to issue a disclaimer before hand about how I think moving on from Woodson would be the best move?...

But, there are very tiny slivers of light...

1. Watching the team play right now, they look like they genuinely like each other. Examples...when Walker got hurt, and it was time for him to be carried off the court, half the team was stumbling over themselves to come help him. Also...later in the second half, Trey was pushing a secondary break, and he stopped and turned and flipped it back to Mgbako for a three. After the play, you could see how excited Trey was for Mgbako. Obviously playing well, and winning, improves everyone's mood. But it just looks like this team is much more bought in than most are giving them credit for. That's a big factor for the health and direction of the program.

2. Until we know who is leaving...the possibility of a solid, core group of players returning, could explain both Woodson being retained, AND McNeeley backing out. There was a lot of smoke in recent weeks about Woody, the players all leaving, etc... Maybe Dolson got assurances from a handful of the key/core players, that they'll return if Woody returns? And maybe McNeeley had been banking on a couple of them being gone when he committed? McNeeley is going to get close to 7 figures wherever he goes...if a place like Kansas has less returning starters on the wing, better chances he'll be featured more...and they are in the process of sending Furphy to the NBA.

3. Galloway, Leal, Mack, Malik, Cupps, Newton, Sparks... And then with the Brinks truck it sounds like he might have...go get 3 impact, starter level perimeter players. And use the leverage, he has earned, from TJD and Ware...to go get an elite big, all from the portal.

Obviously, if the rumors of mass player exodus are true, and we don't get very many core guys back. Then next year could end up being worse. I just think a lot of the doomsday talk about "0-32", "worse than Crean's first year", etc... are just incredibly unlikely.

And I'm still giving Dolson enough credit that he's got a good handle on the program. He's proven that in all our other sports programs. I'm not sure why men's bball would be any different.

I don't know what it ends up looking like, but I bet next year will be a lot better than most are predicting it will be right now. But I'm not certain him coming back automatically means we're going to be worse next year.

I still wish we'd move on...I think its obvious Woodson won't ever win big things at IU...so why not move on and find a guy that will/could?

Short answer. No.

Longer answer....

Banking on fishing another Ware out of the portal is very long odds just on its own. If that were the only thing we needed done, I still wouldn't be counting on it.

As to filling all the other holes? This staff just went 0-31 on 2024 offers. What the hell makes you think they have the capability to close a deal on anyone, at this point?

High quality transfers are going to have their choice. They are going up look for teams that are most likely tourney bound. And that isn't going to be here. So now your left will filling the roster with next lower level transfers.

I've never seen a better time to dismiss a head coach then right now. Zero commits to 'worry' about, and not much on current roster to worry about losing.
 
What in the holy hell has Mike Woodson done with talent so far. Guy has 3 5 star players on his roster currently and the team is a joke.

You guys think buying more players is going to change that?!

College basketball teams dont have success with that. Look at the best teams that have won it all.

Calipari is a 100000x better coach than Woodson and the bring in the big names each year method isnt getting it to the top there. We wont touch their level of talent and have worse coaching but…. Yay!?

I dont care what we bring in if the coach can’t coach his way out of a wet paper bag.
 
What in the holy hell has Mike Woodson done with talent so far. Guy has 3 5 star players on his roster currently and the team is a joke.

You guys think buying more players is going to change that?!

College basketball teams dont have success with that. Look at the best teams that have won it all.

Calipari is a 100000x better coach than Woodson and the bring in the big names each year method isnt getting it to the top there. We wont touch their level of talent and have worse coaching but…. Yay!?

I dont care what we bring in if the coach can’t coach his way out of a wet paper bag.
How about


SUPPORTED THE TROOPS
STOOD FOR THE NATIONAL ANTHEM
AND INJECTED GOD INTO THESE YOUNG MEN'S LIVES!
 
I think the notion of LM not coming to IU because he's afraid of the competition for playing time is insane. If MM were to stay, at worst, LM would either replace X in the lineup, with Trey moving to point or would replace Ware, with MM and Reneau manning the other two front court slots.

IU is one of the worst 3pt shooting teams in the country, and LM, one of the best high school shooters, is afraid of competition from THAT lineup? LOL

I think your theory of LM being afraid of competition will be completely disproved when he commits to an elite program, who has far more talent on it than IU does.

Also, the assumption that Woodson will do well at all in the portal is crazy. Yes, he's gotten a few good players in a scramble in the Spring before. But he literally couldn't get ONE GUARD from the portal last year. One. His portal recruiting last year was so bad that he left a scholarship unused.

Obviously IU has zero recruits for 2024 or 2025 at the current time, but we're supposed to believe that he's a good enough recruiter to get good players, emphasis the "s" in players, this Spring?

I would think that a hugely optimistic view of next year is that IU keeps Reneau and Galloway. Loses Ware, MM, and probably Banks and Gunn. And then Woodson can get a couple of mid-major guards who shoot over 30% from three. That's being optimistic.
Who said he was "afraid"? Just theorizing that the team he envisioned when he committed probably didn't include MM and/or Trey. Maybe they're coming back? And maybe he just doesn't like what he thinks that lineup would look like? A kid like Liam likely doesn't "fear" anyone at the college level. His HS team has a handful of guys that are NBA locks. He chose to play with them, could have played anywhere.

In your "hugely optimistic scenario"... what are Newton, Cupps, Leal, and Sparks doing?

Does your scenario account for Woody getting an NBA caliber big back to replace Ware? Because its more than likely that he will.

What if those "mid major" guards are Malik Mack from Harvard, and Alijah Martin from FAU? Both fit your description...and there are probably 10-15 of them out there that are better than they are that also fit your descpription. Mack, Martin, Galloway, Reneau, NBA level big... Newton coming off the bench. Even Woody could make an NCAA with that lineup.

Its not nearly as much of a long shot as it seems right now.
 
Who said he was "afraid"? Just theorizing that the team he envisioned when he committed probably didn't include MM and/or Trey. Maybe they're coming back? And maybe he just doesn't like what he thinks that lineup would look like? A kid like Liam likely doesn't "fear" anyone at the college level. His HS team has a handful of guys that are NBA locks. He chose to play with them, could have played anywhere.

In your "hugely optimistic scenario"... what are Newton, Cupps, Leal, and Sparks doing?

Does your scenario account for Woody getting an NBA caliber big back to replace Ware? Because its more than likely that he will.

What if those "mid major" guards are Malik Mack from Harvard, and Alijah Martin from FAU? Both fit your description...and there are probably 10-15 of them out there that are better than they are that also fit your descpription. Mack, Martin, Galloway, Reneau, NBA level big... Newton coming off the bench. Even Woody could make an NCAA with that lineup.

Its not nearly as much of a long shot as it seems right now.
Cupps sucks does he not?
 
No. If they go on a run, good for them. I don't expect anything better than Woody's first year. Outdated system, Woody's not the guy, good time for a transition: time to move on.
 
When Woody was hired he said his goals were to win B10 and national championships - just what we all wanted to hear. Year 4 looks like it will be further away from achieving these goals than year 1. The USS Woody is taking on water and is doomed. Sad to see, but true.
 
Who said he was "afraid"? Just theorizing that the team he envisioned when he committed probably didn't include MM and/or Trey. Maybe they're coming back? And maybe he just doesn't like what he thinks that lineup would look like? A kid like Liam likely doesn't "fear" anyone at the college level. His HS team has a handful of guys that are NBA locks. He chose to play with them, could have played anywhere.

In your "hugely optimistic scenario"... what are Newton, Cupps, Leal, and Sparks doing?

Does your scenario account for Woody getting an NBA caliber big back to replace Ware? Because its more than likely that he will.

What if those "mid major" guards are Malik Mack from Harvard, and Alijah Martin from FAU? Both fit your description...and there are probably 10-15 of them out there that are better than they are that also fit your descpription. Mack, Martin, Galloway, Reneau, NBA level big... Newton coming off the bench. Even Woody could make an NCAA with that lineup.

Its not nearly as much of a long shot as it seems right now.
Maybe. And I didn't mention Newton, Cupps, Leal and Sparks because I assumed that they would be back. I think most have made that assumption, correctly or not, so I don't need to include them in any best case scenario.

But so what? Sparks is obviously extremely limited and shouldn't play any kind of significant minutes for a good team. Leal is Leal - he's been there for 4 years. His athleticism isn't getting any better.

Cupps is also limited. He may turn out to be a servicable starter on a decent team in another year or two. He's undersized and needs a LOT of strength. His shot also seems pretty jacked up at this point, but that's par for the course on IU. Not being able to hit consistent perimeter shots is the calling card of this team.

And nobody really knows anything about Newton. Will he EVER be healthy? If so, he has zero college experience and little basketball experience of any kind over the last few years.

Also, your sunshine scenario includes things that have never been done by Woody before. He's never gotten a guard out of the transfer portal. Ever. The guards that you listed are a fantasy until Woody proves that he can actually recruit a guard from the portal.

And even when (if) he can get a couple of guards, what then? His evaluation process seems to be getting the highest ranked players that he can. He's not, in any way, shown the ability to identify undervalued talent. That's a big part of the transfer portal.

He just recruits the highest ranked players and when he strikes out on them, he seems to have no backup plan and seems perplexed about why he fails. But it's the fans fault, right? LOL

He got the number 1 transfer big last year. Ware has been good. He's been playing like a highly recruited 5-star that everyone wanted both from high school and in the transfer portal.

So you're assuming that he's going to do it again? Maybe, but that's a rough way to fill out your roster. We've already seen a team that is just a bunch of different parts.

Successful coaches evaluate how well players fit together. They get to know the players over time, and decide who will fit well and who won't. That's one of the reasons that teams build chemistry. With a short transfer portal window, how will Woody do that? How does he ever do that in his last minute, late-spring recruiting?

Your good fantasy scenario is just that. A fantasy.

And it's fascinating to hear you talk about LM. So now you're speculating that even though he knew who was on the team already, he suddently decided that he doesn't want to play with some of these players? If they left, he'd want to come. Sure thing. I'm sure that's the reason that he reopened his recruiting. LOL

Occam's razor would indicate that he likely didn't like the way the team played this year and didn't want any part of it. Or maybe the rumors are true that Woodson didn't stay in contact. Not a big stretch to believe that. After all, Woodson doesn't seem to like recruiting that much, and he's certainly not experienced at it. How many players has Woody brought in that he recruited for a long time? That's what you get with a coach with zero college coaching experience prior to being hired.
 
Do I need to issue a disclaimer before hand about how I think moving on from Woodson would be the best move?...

But, there are very tiny slivers of light...

1. Watching the team play right now, they look like they genuinely like each other. Examples...when Walker got hurt, and it was time for him to be carried off the court, half the team was stumbling over themselves to come help him. Also...later in the second half, Trey was pushing a secondary break, and he stopped and turned and flipped it back to Mgbako for a three. After the play, you could see how excited Trey was for Mgbako. Obviously playing well, and winning, improves everyone's mood. But it just looks like this team is much more bought in than most are giving them credit for. That's a big factor for the health and direction of the program.

2. Until we know who is leaving...the possibility of a solid, core group of players returning, could explain both Woodson being retained, AND McNeeley backing out. There was a lot of smoke in recent weeks about Woody, the players all leaving, etc... Maybe Dolson got assurances from a handful of the key/core players, that they'll return if Woody returns? And maybe McNeeley had been banking on a couple of them being gone when he committed? McNeeley is going to get close to 7 figures wherever he goes...if a place like Kansas has less returning starters on the wing, better chances he'll be featured more...and they are in the process of sending Furphy to the NBA.

3. Galloway, Leal, Mack, Malik, Cupps, Newton, Sparks... And then with the Brinks truck it sounds like he might have...go get 3 impact, starter level perimeter players. And use the leverage, he has earned, from TJD and Ware...to go get an elite big, all from the portal.

Obviously, if the rumors of mass player exodus are true, and we don't get very many core guys back. Then next year could end up being worse. I just think a lot of the doomsday talk about "0-32", "worse than Crean's first year", etc... are just incredibly unlikely.

And I'm still giving Dolson enough credit that he's got a good handle on the program. He's proven that in all our other sports programs. I'm not sure why men's bball would be any different.

I don't know what it ends up looking like, but I bet next year will be a lot better than most are predicting it will be right now. But I'm not certain him coming back automatically means we're going to be worse next year.

I still wish we'd move on...I think its obvious Woodson won't ever win big things at IU...so why not move on and find a guy that will/could?

Anyone open to optimism?​


No. Not today ... this may be the lowest point in 20+ years of low points. I see nothing that says differently ... maybe that changes through the summer, we'll see.
 
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